$700-a-year increase running an airconditioner & snap price rises of as much as 15,000 %

[Maka]

Taken from Solar Citizens website -

Solar Citizens will work to ensure:

•Every Australian is able to take up the benefits of solar in their home or in their community
•Solar homeowners are paid a fair price for the power they contribute to the grid
•Solar homeowners are able to connect to the grid
•Solar homeowners are not subject to unreasonable charges or tariffs

(with thanks to Solar Citezens)

ps - i'm not a spokesman for this mob, i thought i would throw it up for those it may interest.

cheer's, Maka

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by olfella

I think that is where a lot of governments of all persuasions have lost the plot. They are there to provide basic services to the masses - but when it becomes to hard they take the easy way out and sell off or outsource.

This what happens when governments policies encourage population growth with immigration etc but cannot keep up with infrastructure needed to support it.

[mik]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

trouble is that privatisation is a multi edged sword.

sell the "essential's" then the income previously generated is gone, charges inevitably rise to beyond reach by many, then taxes have to increase to compensate for the loss of income of said infrastructure.

these people, whom we, supposedly, elect from a privileged "chosen few" make decisions that blind freddy can see is bad for the country and its people time and again.

no bloody wonder they took our guns away.

i agree, and to my way of thinking these where(are ) actually needed public services, and if they made a profit or ran in the red.............. who really gives a toss.
Remember when we fully owned our utilities,
the SEC (state electricity commission ) for example, if something needed to to get done ..... it got done, these days if something needs to get done they take the cheapest alternative possible, or have a meeting and discuss how they can cut costs or services elsewhere or ..... put prices up to keep the profit margins up.

i mentioned in another post about light poles around Melbourne being crooked ....... not just talking one or two here or there, bloody everywhere , and it stands out like the nose on your face.
i can only assume linesmen are not trained well enough to know you have to have a certain amount of slack in the cables so when the cold weather comes and the cables contract they don't pull the poles over, this sort of crap was very rare in the old days.

Getting back to the power price rise, its too bad if you are not in a suitable area to have solar.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Maka

Anyone see this story in the Sydney Daily Telegraph yesterday, so if you use more than average power in peak demand, you will be paying a massive premium for the privledge? (i'm frantically checking over our previous bills now!) This applies to all states i gather?

"The Australian Energy Markets Commission (AEMC) says the way to curb future increases in peak demand is to give households “signals” to change power use"

"To beat the new electricity changes some households may have to surrender control of their aircon to their power provider"

"Those who can’t afford that investment — or spiralling running costs — may have to flee to more community “cooling centres” such as libraries"

(with thanks to the Daily Telegraph)

http://www.news.com.au/finance/money...-1227195669476

cheer's, Maka

starting to look like big brother or communism isnt it.
yes comrade .... you vill use airconditioner when we say ...OR ELSE !!!!!!

[Maka]

Amec want to lessen the burden on the network in peak demand, yet overall usage is declining as Bill M pointed out in a earlier post -

"The trade-off would be price cuts in normal weather. By curtailing peak demand, less money would need to be spent on network expansion"

"The AEMC claims rule changes it made last month to send these signals will deliver modest savings of over the medium term to most households"

"The rise of airconditioners is blamed for growth in “peak demand”. There has been about $8 billion of network upgrades in the past decade to deal with this growth and that investment has been recouped through big price rises for all households"

"Charges for network services now account for half of a bill. The actual power is just 20 per cent"

(with thanks to the Daily Telegraph)


Mik, your right, behaviour modification with a big stick. Just like the old days at high school!

cheer's, Maka

[zilo]

Originally Posted by trublu

This what happens when governments policies encourage population growth with immigration etc but cannot keep up with infrastructure needed to support it.

You sir are spot on,

you've identified the source of all Australia's infrastructure problems.

In fact all the world's problems.

[xtremerus]

I assume they would only be able to control your AC if you have a "smart" meter, and not the older conventional ones. Is that right??

[lisaishername]

If you're getting solar then I strongly suggest that you buy the panels NOW.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articl...higher-tariffs

[poppa smurf]

don't know how they would be able to shut off just your air-con unless it is on a totally different switching arrangement.

would have to be remote controlled or the blokes they send around to manually shut it off would want to be big boys.

[lisaishername]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

don't know how they would be able to shut off just your air-con unless it is on a totally different switching arrangement.

would have to be remote controlled or the blokes they send around to manually shut it off would want to be big boys.

Simply, they wouldn't. I haven't heard of any smart meters containing solid state relays yet. Tho Smart meters do contain cellphone transceivers at the moment its for large apartments or units for monitoring usage.
http://forums.radioreference.com/ele...te-cutoff.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...offs-1.2834439

“Some person may live with medical equipment necessary to live. So we think it's [imprudent] to remotely disconnect electricity.”
Moisan-Plante said Hydro-Québec charges high fees to reconnect cut-off customers, and that's another pressing concern.

Cha Chiing!

It looks like they just shut off your entire house not just your aircon and its done via a dispatch.

If they want to shed loads they can just shutoff the entire suburb or town not individual houses.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by lisaishername

If they want to shed loads they can just shutoff the entire suburb or town not individual houses.

you're talking about the old rolling blackouts......would not be tolerated nor allowed in this day and age.......Certainly with no benefit to consumer or reason behind it.

[lisaishername]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

you're talking about the old rolling blackouts......would not be tolerated nor allowed in this day and age.......Certainly with no benefit to consumer or reason behind it.

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ires-melbourne

On Wednesday, the Victorian premier Denis Napthine, who has introduced an effective ban on the construction of wind turbines, talked about the need to "reduce the supply to some households".
He's talking about cutting the electricity to homes, during the hottest part of the day.
"The government is insisting that priority is given to electricity supplies for hospitals, nursing homes emergency services, public transport and major infrastructure," he said in a radio interview, and he also noted that essential services "will be exempt" from power cuts.
The blackouts were exacerbated by repair delays at one of Victoria's major power stations and problems with the Basslink power cable from Tasmania.

Either these reasons are needed before they will initiate rolling blackouts or we have an economic collapse and nobody is able to pay the bills.

Will not be tolerated? Of course there would have to be a reason behind cutting off the power. Melting high voltage lines. etc

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/su...206-325e0.html

"The main cause of network faults during hot conditions is overloading," Citipower and Powercor spokesman Lyall Johnson said.
He said most customer outages were caused by high and low voltages, fuse failures and transformer failures.
"We encourage customers to monitor their usage of electricity in periods of extremely hot weather and, where possible, reduce their usage," he said.
Stuart Allott from distributor United Energy (supplying south-eastern suburbs to the Mornington Peninsula) said 45 of approximately 20,000 street-level low-voltage circuits failed during the heatwave.
"Prolonged heat can cause our transformers to be unbalanced or overloaded due to customer load increasing as a result of high air-conditioner use, and we only truly know what peak load they can take when we get a set of very hot days in a row," Mr Allott said.
He gave the example of McKinnon, in Melbourne's south-east, as an area that had blackouts. A "peak demand issue" was identified in a small area of the suburb and works were fast-tracked to improve supply reliability, he said.

[poppa smurf]

yet to see a high voltage power line melt, in fact there are many safeguards to give way before that happened.

the main ones are the transformers.......they have all been updated.

I'm afraid the media (as usual) has slopped up a lot of propaganda which has been spread by power barons in an effort to justify their multi million dollar profits.

there is, and always will be, scare tactics and propaganda circulating, the trick is to be able to weave our way to the truth.

[lisaishername]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

yet to see a high voltage power line melt, in fact there are many safeguards to give way before that happened.

the main ones are the transformers.......they have all been updated.

I'm afraid the media (as usual) has slopped up a lot of propaganda which has been spread by power barons in an effort to justify their multi million dollar profits.

there is, and always will be, scare tactics and propaganda circulating, the trick is to be able to weave our way to the truth.

Did you miss this one? Or are you referring to in Australia?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nt0njgVmv4

Just because you haven't actually seen it with your own eyes doesn't mean it won't happen. Its impossible to keep an eye on every single HV circuit all across Australia at least from a personal perspective.

AT least its good to hear that they are upgrading transformers and doing what they need to do to keep ahead of the curve of failing gear. But once we see an economic downturn I don't see why they cannot start to skip on maintenance.

Its also good to hear that we are using less and less power and going more and more to Solar grid-tie. That should hopefully reduce the strain on the grid.

I would like to find out what will happen when a large percentage of households install solar and the entire street or suburb is running at higher-than-healthy voltages.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by lisaishername

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ires-melbourne

Either these reasons are needed before they will initiate rolling blackouts or we have an economic collapse and nobody is able to pay the bills.

Will not be tolerated? Of course there would have to be a reason behind cutting off the power. Melting high voltage lines. etc

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/su...206-325e0.html

Most of the black outs caused in bush fires is for health & safety reasons when it comes to HV equipment tripping out (intentionally), Smoke around HV equipment is very dangerous for people fighting fires, you will be surprised how HV power can discharge through smoke, not many people know this fact but a CFA fiery will certainly know of it.

Most times the authorities will have the power switched off for this reason.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by trublu

This what happens when governments policies encourage population growth with immigration etc but cannot keep up with infrastructure needed to support it.

And this is also what happens when governments are distracted and too busy with internal party infighting, spending money on pink batts and a huge bureaucracy to run it, knighthoods for Princes and meanwhile the important things like education, health care, defence and Australia's infrastructure gets left out in the cold. When the government of the day is finally forced into a position of having to spend money on the said infrastructure, it is discovered that the costs of upgrading that infrastructure are astronomical and it is shelved until after the next election put into the too hard basket.

Our last quarterly power bill was $30. I'm glad for solar power. In fact, I'm stoked.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by Maka

Anyone considering or already using solar power generation for their places of residence, please have a look at this link -
http://www.solarcitizens.org.au/
cheer's, Maka

Good one mate. Just joined up to that one.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Time to investigate going solar I think...I ain't giving up my tumble dryer or my AC.

We haven't owned a tumble dryer for many years.
Clothes are either dried on the line or inside on the clothes horse if the weather is bad.
Saved a fortune.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by lisaishername

Did you miss this one? Or are you referring to in Australia?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nt0njgVmv4

Just because you haven't actually seen it with your own eyes doesn't mean it won't happen. Its impossible to keep an eye on every single HV circuit all across Australia at least from a personal perspective.

AT least its good to hear that they are upgrading transformers and doing what they need to do to keep ahead of the curve of failing gear. But once we see an economic downturn I don't see why they cannot start to skip on maintenance.

Its also good to hear that we are using less and less power and going more and more to Solar grid-tie. That should hopefully reduce the strain on the grid.

I would like to find out what will happen when a large percentage of households install solar and the entire street or suburb is running at higher-than-healthy voltages.

hasn't happened, never will, too many safety measures in place to protect the grid and don't forget the grid is substantially over constructed, one of the so called reasons our power prices are so high.

everytime this is dragged out I see chicken little in the tabloids.

as for overloading the system with too many solar systems, I suggest you do a little more homework.

everybody that has home solar installed must comply with regulations, as in licensing the generating system to comply with allowable voltages relating to the particular line they about to "feed into".

we all must have a PVSEG number, or Photo voltaic Small Energy Generator number and your system must comply with the capabilities of the line it is to tie into.

if the line is to be "overloaded" the license will either not be granted or the line will be upgraded to handle the extra load.

once again can't happen.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

I assume they would only be able to control your AC if you have a "smart" meter, and not the older conventional ones. Is that right??

That's right. I believe the newer ac installations are connected directly to the smart meter hence being able to turn it down or even off.

[lisaishername]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

hasn't happened, never will, too many safety measures in place to protect the grid and don't forget the grid is substantially over constructed, one of the so called reasons our power prices are so high.

everytime this is dragged out I see chicken little in the tabloids.

as for overloading the system with too many solar systems, I suggest you do a little more homework.

everybody that has home solar installed must comply with regulations, as in licensing the generating system to comply with allowable voltages relating to the particular line they about to "feed into".

we all must have a PVSEG number, or Photo voltaic Small Energy Generator number and your system must comply with the capabilities of the line it is to tie into.

if the line is to be "overloaded" the license will either not be granted or the line will be upgraded to handle the extra load.

once again can't happen.

It wouldn't be an "overload" condition (is this for lack of a better word?) if you're feeding too much voltage into the power grid anyway, you're using the wrong terminology and making vast assumptions over what I meant.

I meant that a dangerous condition involving the voltage rating of appliances (neighbours appliances) burning out as a result of inadequate voltage regulation on the local power grid.

And you do sound pretty knowledgeable on the topic but I would hazard to guess you are also very self-assured. Not sure if that is a bonus or what.

Oh and the new york blackout occured as a result of a single tree in a high voltage power line corridor and a guy forgetting to turn on said safety equipment after repairing it the day before.

I agree though that the chances are slim.
#1 You would need safety systems to be offline or in disrepair.
#2 You would need a lack of maintenance in hv power line corridors.
#3 You would need a solar flare. (And safety equipment like earthing at the generating station to be in disrepair or non functioning state)
#4 Nuclear War.

So still slim.

[poppa smurf]

lets just say that I do have a lot of "internal" knowledge of power systems with years of actual hands on experience in this exact subject, this would possibly account for my "self assurance".

you are talking hypotheticals as well as differing power system (american) as well as twisting the conversation into non existent Hypothetical boundaries which would be impossible to replicate without multiple failures of multiple systems.

we shall leave the debate there I think.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by ute83

That's right. I believe the newer ac installations are connected directly to the smart meter hence being able to turn it down or even off.

Theres another "device" out there, not sure what its called but it allows remote control of your AC compressor-IE refrig AC has 2 parts, the internal blower unit and the external compressor(which uses the bulk of the power load).
At predetermined peak loads, the power company can remotely switch off x number of compressors in each street for a predetermined amount of time only (like 10-15 mins) this has the effect of shedding load across a suburb while the internal AC blower still operates. For the life of me I cant see where this saves power as when the compressor is reactivated, it will have to work that bit harder to cool the inside air back to where it was before the shutdown. There was a trial of this system in SA at one stage but not sure where it is now.
There was talk a few years ago of houses having to notify the power company of how many ac units are in their premises.
It will get to a stage when new system installs will need to be approved with a device of this nature, big brother will definitely have a hand over your power use.

[Cashie]

Edit

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Theres another "device" out there, not sure what its called but it allows remote control of your AC compressor-IE refrig AC has 2 parts, the internal blower unit and the external compressor(which uses the bulk of the power load).
At predetermined peak loads, the power company can remotely switch off x number of compressors in each street for a predetermined amount of time only (like 10-15 mins) this has the effect of shedding load across a suburb while the internal AC blower still operates. For the life of me I cant see where this saves power as when the compressor is reactivated, it will have to work that bit harder to cool the inside air back to where it was before the shutdown. There was a trial of this system in SA at one stage but not sure where it is now.
There was talk a few years ago of houses having to notify the power company of how many ac units are in their premises.
It will get to a stage when new system installs will need to be approved with a device of this nature, big brother will definitely have a hand over your power use.

do you have any literature on this? mate, we just installed a new unit before chrissy and I remember that the mob who installed the unit had to notify the power mob.

at the time I wondered why! simply assuming that it was to do with the compilation of the drain on local lines.

I wonder if ours has this?......if so i won't be happy.

and yes I agree, the savings made will be soaked up to "recool" the house.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Theres another "device" out there, not sure what its called but it allows remote control of your AC compressor-IE refrig AC has 2 parts, the internal blower unit and the external compressor(which uses the bulk of the power load).
At predetermined peak loads, the power company can remotely switch off x number of compressors in each street for a predetermined amount of time only (like 10-15 mins) this has the effect of shedding load across a suburb while the internal AC blower still operates. For the life of me I cant see where this saves power as when the compressor is reactivated, it will have to work that bit harder to cool the inside air back to where it was before the shutdown. There was a trial of this system in SA at one stage but not sure where it is now.
There was talk a few years ago of houses having to notify the power company of how many ac units are in their premises.
It will get to a stage when new system installs will need to be approved with a device of this nature, big brother will definitely have a hand over your power use.

I call BS on this... Do tell how they'd remotely control one appliance on a circuit?
Or even if say, a 2hp air con is on it's own dedicated circuit?
Does Powercor bluetooth your compressor from headquarters and trip the circuit breaker or what?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

I call BS on this... Do tell how they'd remotely control one appliance on a circuit?
Or even if say, a 2hp air con is on it's own dedicated circuit?
Does Powercor bluetooth your compressor from headquarters and trip the circuit breaker or what?

A relay I guess, trigger it with the smart meter.

Do they do 240V/415V relays?

I doubt they'd do that sort of stuff though, if I had A/C and they turned it off I'd be on their door steps holding signs and yelling

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

I call BS on this... Do tell how they'd remotely control one appliance on a circuit?
Or even if say, a 2hp air con is on it's own dedicated circuit?
Does Powercor bluetooth your compressor from headquarters and trip the circuit breaker or what?

Don't underestimated danzvtil comment, I too have read somewhere of new technology & it is a reality, what I have read is customers will be able to sign up to this offer from the energy retailers for special tariff conditions & of course some wiring alterations will be performed to your premises if needed
New appliances will have built in new technology to facilitate communication with the network grid, hence via smart meters.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

A relay I guess, trigger it with the smart meter.

Do they do 240V/415V relays?

I doubt they'd do that sort of stuff though, if I had A/C and they turned it off I'd be on their door steps holding signs and yelling

Google being me mate!.. informed me that Energex in Qld has trialled this idea (with the consent of agreeing customers)
It involves a "box" mounted next to the aircon (or pool pump) that is in the control of the power company that can remotely cycle the compressor, or pump on & off...
So, "at this stage"... Big brother hasn't got control of what's wired to our household board without us knowing.

[Franco Cozzo]

Why would anyone agree to that test lol?

Yeah no worries chuck this box on my house and you can turn A/C compressor on and off when ever you feel like it, like this 45 degree day coming up, feel free to not let me use my A/C when I need it.