Why do Australian police keep cars for such a short time?

[sbutler]

The police dont pay sales tax, & there for the term of life [TOL] is much cheaper,
If they kept them for say 100,000Ks the resale will be worthless. They make money on every car they have.
All government departments do the same thing.
Buy the less tax,
keep them serviced,
sell them for more than they paid..
Simple really..

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by XR5

They are flogged all right. They need to be. Go jump in a pursuit and have to comply with police guidelines in relation to safe driving policy relating to pursuits when it comes to things like running red lights, crossing intersections, calling the pursuit on police radio all while trying to keep up with the dirtbag you are chasing whose only thought is to get away and has no responsibilities towards other members of the public. Also urgent duty runs where you are trying to get to persons trapped prangs or fatals or to the domestic where hubby is flogging the missus to death. Contrary to popular belief HWP will and do attend these jobs. We may not do the charge but we are often the first ones there involved in the fight with the drunken/violent/drug induced idiot or idiots.

Most people don't realise any of this when they see the HWP car fly by them at a million miles per hour and the ridiculous reality HWP shows shown on the tv are so restricted, scrutinised and screened before airing. I was offered the chance to do one episode a few years ago when I worked in a patrol in South West Sydney. I ended up not doing it but our briefing told us what to ignore, what to do, what to say and where to go while the cameras were with us. It is about as far from reality policing as it gets.

So yes the cars are driven hard and flogged and most city cars have been put hard over median strips etc but that is part of the job. Policing isn't your average 9 to 5 jobs and the vehicles used don't get treated and are not asked to do what your average fleet vehicle gets asked to do. It's got nothing to do with flogging the cars because you can, it's because they are needed to be when people's lives and public safety is the major priority. I'm sure if anyone's family member was trapped in a car or being bashed senseless they wouldn't mind if I drove the tyres off the rims and blew the engine to hell in order to get to them and help them

Game, set and match.... I applaud the police for their duty, they are exceptional people.. The cars are a tool of trade and understandably so.

But its the next owners of these cars that always try and say they have been driven lightly and its a detectives personal car etc etc.. As above the police have thrashed the guts out of them.

[XR8AU2121]

Well I have an ex NSW HWP 1999 AU XR8 which I bought at auction in September 2000 with 32,000K's on the clock.
I still have it and it now has 193,000k's and while it is now more than 15 years old it still drives like new, no rattles/squeaks, no backlash in drive train and apart from normal service replacements the only repairs have been a fuel pump relay, cam synchroniser, one front ball joint and a new exhaust system
While it has been driven with care, I must have been lucky.

[Kempe]

I believe the Government dont pay the taxes that are due so after say 3 years the trade in value is not much lower than the price to replace with new and sometimes they make a profit

[BA Supa Pursuit]

Originally Posted by XR8AU2121

Well I have an ex NSW HWP 1999 AU XR8 which I bought at auction in September 2000 with 32,000K's on the clock.
I still have it and it now has 193,000k's and while it is now more than 15 years old it still drives like new, no rattles/squeaks, no backlash in drive train and apart from normal service replacements the only repairs have been a fuel pump relay, cam synchroniser, one front ball joint and a new exhaust system
While it has been driven with care, I must have been lucky.

That was back when they were turned over much earlier. They still aren't a bad car at the 30000 to 40000 mark. It seems to be that last period after 60000km or so when they really start to feel their age, particularly the turbos.

[Bulletime]

They get them pretty cheap too, not just normal fleet pricing, I've heard of new SS for low 30s for federal government. Resell that in a couple years time for low to mid 30s and theres ya profit

[sbutler]

I still have my 6/2010 HWP car & its the same as XR8AU2121 car.
Still drives like new, 130,000 trouble free Ks. I have put a battery, & a set of front wheel bearings in it, & of course the usual stuff, like brake pads, & wiper blades. Other than that I couldn't be happier. It had 59900Ks when I got it.

[Jastel]

Originally Posted by Elks

But logically, being that this Forum is full of Ford owners they aren't likely to have a problem with a Jeep. They will have an issue with the car they own. Not one they don't. If you own an XR6 you won't have a problem with a Camry.

All cars have issues. Go on the Jeep forums, VW forums, LS1, OZ Benz. They're all full of people trying to find their way through the maze of quality vs reliability vs low cost or no cost.

Police departments change over all their cars Ford Holden Subaru Toyota. Like all fleets do because that's the most cost effective way to do it.

That's exactly what I said??
The multiple problems that you read about on forums regarding older cars of any type have means get rid of them as soon as allowed to. I doubt you would find any cop or worker who doesn't pay for the car saying "NO Boss, save your money, I want to keep my BA, there's another 200000kms in it yet".

I have bought dozens of ex cop cars for taxis, they have no more problems that any other car IMHO. The interiors are a bit rougher sometimes.
You cant flog a car and damage it anymore, its not 1970 or even 1990, the computer wont allow you to. You CAN drive it into kerbs, speed bumps and other objects and damage it THAT way, but sometimes for Police it may be necessary.

You are paying around half new price for a secondhand car, that generally has been better looked after than many private ones.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Waste of tax payer money IMO,

I was pulling looms and furniture out of fully maintained 40,000km Mercedes Vitos to put them in new VW Transporters.

Then out of 40,000km old VW Transporters into new VW Transporters again.

On the other hand Ambulances were going to 200,000km+ and they spend all their life loaded up, and how many code 1 calls would they do a day where its lights, sirens and thrashing the crap out of it vs cops?

50% of the Ambos to be put out of their misery would come limping in the door with engine lights on, running like a bag of dicks, to be pulled apart and sold at auction to a courier.

Victoria Police had no problems buying new vans but for some reason didn't want to buy new wiring looms, its 10x easier just putting a new loom into a new van than cutting out the old one and rejoining it again in the new one and spending so much more labour time **** farting around to 'save money'.

They could go to 100,000km no problems I reckon, if I was a high up in the state government I'd be cutting back on Victoria Police getting new vehicles so quickly, at least double or triple the distance before they can turn them over.

kept you in a job, i never complain if i have a job because of it

[zaczac]

I can guarantee you that in Qld it is simply a matter of budget. Police have limited budgets and basically they want best re-sale on cars that are basically stock. Research has revealed this is why they replace vehicles at certain times.

Contrary to all the crap out there about 'hotted' up cop cars, they are not. They are stock and just have all the markings and gear added. So its no great loss to removes the gear and put in next car.

I know of Qld Police cars replaced at 60,000 and others at 175,000 depending on make/model.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Waste of tax payer money IMO,

I was pulling looms and furniture out of fully maintained 40,000km Mercedes Vitos to put them in new VW Transporters.

Then out of 40,000km old VW Transporters into new VW Transporters again.

On the other hand Ambulances were going to 200,000km+ and they spend all their life loaded up, and how many code 1 calls would they do a day where its lights, sirens and thrashing the crap out of it vs cops?

50% of the Ambos to be put out of their misery would come limping in the door with engine lights on, running like a bag of dicks, to be pulled apart and sold at auction to a courier.

Victoria Police had no problems buying new vans but for some reason didn't want to buy new wiring looms, its 10x easier just putting a new loom into a new van than cutting out the old one and rejoining it again in the new one and spending so much more labour time **** farting around to 'save money'.

They could go to 100,000km no problems I reckon, if I was a high up in the state government I'd be cutting back on Victoria Police getting new vehicles so quickly, at least double or triple the distance before they can turn them over.

Off topic alert! Big Damo, do you know where I could get a gearbox for a 2005 Vito?

[XR5]

Originally Posted by XR8AU2121

Well I have an ex NSW HWP 1999 AU XR8 which I bought at auction in September 2000 with 32,000K's on the clock.
I still have it and it now has 193,000k's and while it is now more than 15 years old it still drives like new, no rattles/squeaks, no backlash in drive train and apart from normal service replacements the only repairs have been a fuel pump relay, cam synchroniser, one front ball joint and a new exhaust system
While it has been driven with care, I must have been lucky.

Like everything it is the luck of the draw. We had some cars leave us I would happily own but some others I wouldn't want to. Country cars are usually more mechanically and structurally sound than city cars are. I guess it just shows how regardless of what use they are for you can take two of the same model car and put them side by side and one can have problems whereas the other one will be perfect.

[aussie muscle]

I remember nsw used to have billboards showing four or five cars with a police car in the middle...and text "which is a cop car?"
"answer: all of them"
except a couple were old (like vw beetle) and i thought "i've never seen them drive anything more than a couple years old...

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by XR8AU2121

Well I have an ex NSW HWP 1999 AU XR8 which I bought at auction in September 2000 with 32,000K's on the clock.
I still have it and it now has 193,000k's and while it is now more than 15 years old it still drives like new, no rattles/squeaks, no backlash in drive train and apart from normal service replacements the only repairs have been a fuel pump relay, cam synchroniser, one front ball joint and a new exhaust system
While it has been driven with care, I must have been lucky.

My XC (which is my avatar) I got from the auctions in 1981 with 120k on the clock, ex driver training and highway patrol, still got it, nearly 500k on the clock.
But as they say, they don't make them like that anymore.
Yep cop cars get worked hard, but as someone said, tool of the trade, they're there to do a job, not drive around sedately getting from A to B.

[irvinnie]

Originally Posted by XR5

Like everything it is the luck of the draw. We had some cars leave us I would happily own but some others I wouldn't want to. Country cars are usually more mechanically and structurally sound than city cars are. I guess it just shows how regardless of what use they are for you can take two of the same model car and put them side by side and one can have problems whereas the other one will be perfect.

I will second this comment. Having worked at both it is night and day as to how they are driven. Used to get 40k out of a set of tyres at my country station where all I basically did was drive on an open highway get a speed, flash them from a mile away and do a gentle u turn to pull up behind them and issue a ticket. Plus hardly ever did urgent duty runs due to the quieter nature of country policing. Compare that to changing tyres every 10k service and normally also rotors, speeding cars not stopping and always doing hard u turns, heavy acceleration and big stops, plus numerous urgent duty runs all added to a much harder driven car. Don't get me wrong though they are all serviced well and if you ever did anything to the car that you thought may have done any damage it was thoroughly inspected. No one wants to hop into a car (or have their mate hop into a car) that may have damage and then have to travel at extreme speeds and not be sure that the car was in a roadworthy condition.

To be honest I would have no issue in buying s second hand HWP car but I would select a country car of a city one

[BA Supa Pursuit]

Originally Posted by irvinnie

I will second this comment. Having worked at both it is night and day as to how they are driven. Used to get 40k out of a set of tyres at my country station where all I basically did was drive on an open highway get a speed, flash them from a mile away and do a gentle u turn to pull up behind them and issue a ticket. Plus hardly ever did urgent duty runs due to the quieter nature of country policing. Compare that to changing tyres every 10k service and normally also rotors, speeding cars not stopping and always doing hard u turns, heavy acceleration and big stops, plus numerous urgent duty runs all added to a much harder driven car. Don't get me wrong though they are all serviced well and if you ever did anything to the car that you thought may have done any damage it was thoroughly inspected. No one wants to hop into a car (or have their mate hop into a car) that may have damage and then have to travel at extreme speeds and not be sure that the car was in a roadworthy condition.

To be honest I would have no issue in buying s second hand HWP car but I would select a country car of a city one

Yes that's true. Ours generally receive new brakes every 10k and tyres there abouts. The worst car you can land at auction is the driver training HWP cars. These have the hardest lives of any car anywhere. Tyres last about 1000km and nearly all their driving is urgent duty simulation. I drove one with 20000 odd Kms and it felt like it had half a million Kms!

[ebxr8240]

They pretty much sell them for what they paid for them...
They don't pay the tax's etc we pay..

[FGX335]

My father in law used to be in HWP for the NSW Police, and has told me a few stories.

He would often have XC or XD 351 in top gear going as fast as it possibly could on the Pacific Highway, back in the days when it was single lane both ways, and still recalls just how good those cars were at full speed. When they had to get a doctor into the city to perform an urgent operation, they would be tasked with getting them there as quickly as possible. Recall the scene in Die Hard 3 where the stockbroker gets in the cab and asks to go to Wall Street? The doctor would end up being that guy in the back!

I've heard about XD's going right over the top of a motorbike during a pursuit, wiping out on a gutter at a sharp corner of a street and ripping the suspension right out, and even how he ended his career with a prisoner transport at 2am in the morning when the driver fell asleep and had a horrific crash. Luckily he is ok, but he has lasting issues from that incident (plenty of scars, and partially restricted movement). The driver and prisoner walked away with barely a scratch, where he was in Intensive Care and needed months off work to recuperate.

My favourite was the one HWP guy that all of the other officers hated. They stuffed prawn heads in the AC vents of his car, and it took him ages to figure it out. Unfortunately, they would have to also drive that vehicle on occasion, and they were all happy to see that car go to the auctions. Some poor bastard would have ended up with that car!

Some cars would go to auction clapped out, and others were well looked after. I think they used to swap them over at about 80,000km, and sometimes the guys would buy a particular car at auction if it was in good nick.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Express

Many years ago I used to purchase them at very low tender prices for Local Council’s with the advantage of no government charges.

You kept them for 40,000k then traded them at market price for more than you paid for them.

I know it's not quite the same today as I understand there is now some government charges but the same basic principles still apply, the only difference is that the fat in the change over isn’t as good.

Let them get too old and you lose more and more as their second value decreases.

no fat anymore, rules changed pre-2000, I was involved in part of the process