Law on stolen and recovered cars

[LTDHO]

Either the copper lied or your mate isn't telling you everything.

[Morexbs]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Thanks for comments, very helpful. I should have provided more detail. The car is an AU which I'm told was not comprehensively insured when stolen (3rd party Ins only). The reg expired after it was stolen and not re-registered in Vic and it was sold to someone unregistered.
.

It still makes no sense.If the car was reported stolen at the time (was it?),then the police need to recover it.That's their job.

[jackute23]

No, police again say the car can't be recovered as it was sold to someone who bought it good faith.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by jackute23

No, police again say the car can't be recovered as it was sold to someone who bought it good faith.

Hate to repeat it, but...

They are wrong - it is stolen property regardless of who or how it was bought.
Time to give a lawyer a quick call.

[Express]

Originally Posted by jackute23

No, police again say the car can't be recovered as it was sold to someone who bought it good faith.

First off that statement doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, how can you take something belonging to someone without their permission and give it to someone else without the original owner still being the true owner?

If you buy a car which has money owning on it and the seller reneges on the payments the finance company will be quickly knocking on your door to recover their property.

My experience is in NSW not Vic but I doubt there would be much different in a fundamental law of ownership and recovery and return was completely at odds with what you are saying.

In fact after the Police recovered the vehicle in another State (QLD) over ten years after it was stolen and said it was available for pick up, the car was eventually passed onto the insurance company who had paid out on it years before and was therefore the real owner.

Oddly enough the registration records showed it had changed hands three times before the fact it was a stolen vehicle was flagged.

The last person who tried to register the car lost both the vehicle and their money.

The Police took the stolen vehicle and put it in their impounding yard waiting for the real owner to pick it up.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by jackute23

No, police again say the car can't be recovered as it was sold to someone who bought it good faith.

Can you please get them to cite the specific Victorian law/legislation for their position? I'm genuinely intrigued and would like to investigate.

[Stefan]

I'm guessing the cops a simply lazy if that is their position.

[jackute23]

Too lazy is highly likely, as we all know. But police have now told him that the law applies also with second hand dealers, eg. if a 2nd hand dealer sells property which turns out to have been stolen to a person who buys it from the dealer in good faith, that buyer has an interest in it which prevents it being seized and returned to original owner.

He is still going to a lawyer when he can, but it involves time off work which he can't do at present.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Too lazy is highly likely, as we all know. But police have now told him that the law applies also with second hand dealers, eg. if a 2nd hand dealer sells property which turns out to have been stolen to a person who buys it from the dealer in good faith, that buyer has an interest in it which prevents it being seized and returned to original owner.

You cannot have a legal interest in the property if the seller never had a legal interest in the property in the first place. If the seller stole the car, then the seller does not have legal interest in the car, and therefore cannot pass legal interest to any third party, including a car dealer (who should've done a check to make sure everything was legit in any event).

Either the cop is wrong, or there's more to the story.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Too lazy is highly likely, as we all know. But police have now told him that the law applies also with second hand dealers, eg. if a 2nd hand dealer sells property which turns out to have been stolen to a person who buys it from the dealer in good faith, that buyer has an interest in it which prevents it being seized and returned to original owner.

He is still going to a lawyer when he can, but it involves time off work which he can't do at present.

Well no-one has told Consumer Affairs Victoria if that is the case . I'm just not finding anything in my research that supports what the police are telling your mate. Can they be more specific?

https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/busi...of-clear-title

[jackute23]

The car was initially reported stolen to police. It wasn't sold to a dealer or apparently re-registered.
Thanks for the info I have passed on to owner (original owner)who is going to call Consumer Affairs.

[Mooka]

Does he know where it is located ????
If so just go jump in it with spare key and drive off !

[JAJH]

Thats right, rego doesn't prove ownership but if their is an incumberance on the car by a fianancier, they own the car. Going back to the OP's original comment about the copper who told him there's nothing they can do, I would tend to think that's more than likely the true story. I don't mean what he told him was true, I mean the copper might have simply not been bothered to pursue it and fobbed him off. As an ex-copper, I can assure you it happens on a regular basis.

[jackute23]

Unfortunately we all know it happens on a regular basis. As an ex-copper do you know the law/or usual police practice in this situation or can you find out?

My friend has spoken to Consumer Affairs who say it's not something they know about, as they only deal with cars sold by auto traders. But they gave him the number of (free legal advice) Vic Legal Aid to call for an opinion. He couldn't wait long enough to get through to them, but will try again Monday.

[xisled]

Has your friend told you the whole story?

Sounds like a a couple cases that I came across while working in claims.

How was the car actually stolen, was it taken by a random person or was it sold by someone he knew?

Also has the person who stole he car been charged with the theft, as it sounds like he hasn't been from your opening post.

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Unfortunately we all know it happens on a regular basis. As an ex-copper do you know the law/or usual police practice in this situation or can you find out?

My friend has spoken to Consumer Affairs who say it's not something they know about, as they only deal with cars sold by auto traders. But they gave him the number of (free legal advice) Vic Legal Aid to call for an opinion. He couldn't wait long enough to get through to them, but will try again Monday.

It's been a long time since I was a copper, so the law may have changed somewhat, but I think the commonsense approach would be to get some legal advice first so you're not taking advice from forum members (albeit with good intentions) and you can proceed down the right track. However, from my understanding, if you can prove the car's ownership and it has been stolen and resold, the car still belongs to you and it's tough luck for the new owner. If the new owner knew it was stolen then he can be charged for receiving stolen goods as well as the crook who stole it.

[jackute23]

It's a stolen car, only dispute is about whether or not he is entitled to get it back after it's been sold to buyer acting in good faith. Thanks for advice, he's getting legal opinion next week, will post that when I know.
Sounds encouraging about tough luck for new owner.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by jackute23

It's a stolen car, only dispute is about whether or not he is entitled to get it back after it's been sold to buyer acting in good faith. Thanks for advice, he's getting legal opinion next week, will post that when I know.
Sounds encouraging about tough luck for new owner.

Yep - buyer beware!

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by JAJH

I mean the copper might have simply not been bothered to pursue it and fobbed him off. As an ex-copper, I can assure you it happens on a regular basis.

That's it IMO, it's a lot of work for a cop to recover a $2K car....

Pretty shiiiiity that the lazy grub spins BS to get out of doing his job and probably wonders why cops get no respect.

[MrEL]

It is starting to sound like an ex partner has taken the car in a bust up and then sold it without the other ex agreeing.
Technically stolen but not in the eyes of the law.
Would turn into a civil legal mess not criminal.

[jackute23]

No it was stolen by thief unknown to owner. Court case hasn't come up yet. Car is (was) probably worth about $4, 500.

[tweeked]

If he got paid out by his insurance company would it not then belong to them if recovered.

Are we all just assuming that the buyer is the one to keep it, not the insurance company? Maybe he wants the car back as well as keeping his payout???

[LG17]

Originally Posted by tweeked

If he got paid out by his insurance company would it not then belong to them if recovered.

Are we all just assuming that the buyer is the one to keep it, not the insurance company? Maybe he wants the car back as well as keeping his payout???

I believe somewhere it was stated that there was no comprehensive insurance.

[jackute23]

No comprehensive insurance, 3rd party only. Anyhow, result was he obtained a lawyer's opinion that the car should be seized and returned to him as he is still the owner. He told this to police but they still say they can not seize it from person who bought it off the thief. The lawyer is apparently writing a letter to police saying they can and should.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Good outcome.

Bit confused about the police thing though, it's pretty straight forward, it's stolen property and needs to be returned to owner.

[jackute23]

Police maintain that when stolen property is sold on to a person who buys it in good faith (doesn't know it is stolen) and pays money for it, they can not seize it from that person, even though the original owner also has a right to it.
Anyhow, they won't get it and return it to my mate, so see what the lawyer can do.
(If it was my car I'd hire a tow truck and bring it back where it bolongs).

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Police maintain that when stolen property is sold on to a person who buys it in good faith (doesn't know it is stolen) and pays money for it, they can not seize it from that person, even though the original owner also has a right to it.
Anyhow, they won't get it and return it to my mate, so see what the lawyer can do.
(If it was my car I'd hire a tow truck and bring it back where it bolongs).

What a load of crap! Any crims reading this will be rubbing their hands together,
Stolen cars are now all of a sudden legitimate once they've been on sold WTF?
I hope your mate gets his car back, even though I feel sorry for the current owner (providing they thought it was legitimate)

[Express]

Originally Posted by jackute23

No comprehensive insurance, 3rd party only. Anyhow, result was he obtained a lawyer's opinion that the car should be seized and returned to him as he is still the owner. He told this to police but they still say they can not seize it from person who bought it off the thief. The lawyer is apparently writing a letter to police saying they can and should.

I hope that letter is going to the Police Commissioner for clarification.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Police maintain that when stolen property is sold on to a person who buys it in good faith (doesn't know it is stolen) and pays money for it, they can not seize it from that person, even though the original owner also has a right to it.
Anyhow, they won't get it and return it to my mate, so see what the lawyer can do.
(If it was my car I'd hire a tow truck and bring it back where it bolongs).

Copper must be a newbie.

[MrEL]

Coppers should at least be impounding it until the mess gets sorted out.
Otherwise the person who has it now sells it and it has to be found and the merry go around starts again.