Not V8 Supercars

[Junkyard-Dog]

The only race I bother to watch is Bathurst and that's just because I like the track.

It's still pretty funny seeing people get up in arms about the whole red vs. blue thing though and it's even funnier that most of these people have no idea that the cars are virtually exactly the same underneath.

[the_scotsman]

Yea, the name changed middle of last year.

I still enjoy watching it every round. And I still call them "the V8s".

Sure, they're not really Ford or Holden cars, but the rivalry behind them is still massive, and worth fighting for.

It can be a little boring at times, but there's a lot of great racing too. I'm still a big fan!

[zipping]

Our engineers, mechanics and drivers are world class.

Just be grateful that Oz has 1 category where the talent can be show cased...not everyone can make it in F1.

These threads knocking Supercars appear from time to time most complain that its not production cars anymore not realising their is both a production and improved production series still in operation.

[Squalo]

Switch to World Superbike if you want to see exciting racing (or MotoGP on a good day).

Car racing is dead.

Edit: ok, I'll allow that there's still some terrific grassroots racing if you're prepared to lower your 'standards'. Go to the Leyburn Sprints sometime and you'll never bother with V8 or F1 again. Leyburn last year was probably the best race meet I've ever been to, and I've done F1, Indy, V8, NASCAR etc. as well as Aust and World Superbike and 500cc GP / MotoGP. You can even buy and race a car for a few seasons for what a new HSV or XR8 would cost you.

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

I was on Facebook last night and reading my Cousins thread he is behind the scenes as part of channel 10s coverage somebody wrote to him about the job and also mentioned the V8 Supercars race and he said they are not called V8 Supercars anymore just Supercars I wonde if that is a backdoor deal so Holden can run the new Commodores with awd and twin turbo V6s just wondering thats all John

So where you been since July 2016?

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Nikked

My thoughts exactly.

Gave production car racing a go in the old SBS speedweek days...wasn't exactly the most thrilling thing.

Always thought the prod based V8 Utes provided good racing and TCM is great so prod based can be done.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Squalo

Car racing is dead.

Car racing is dead? So is motorbike racing at Barbagallo here in Perth...
Oh wait it's the riders that keep dying... more room for the cars now.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Always thought the prod based V8 Utes provided good racing and TCM is great so prod based can be done.

Ha, both those categories are a long way from production based. TCM are about as much production based as supercars.... Just the old looking shell on a very modern driveline.

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by prydey

Ha, both those categories are a long way from production based. TCM are about as much production based as supercars.... Just the old looking shell on a very modern driveline.

Really? Ha...They seem to specify mainly Cleveland or Windsor engines in the doc as the weapon of choice for Fords. No "very modern" engines were listed I could see. Of course they are modified and improved,but certainly closer to production platforms than COTF.

.
http://docs.cams.com.au/Manual/Sport...ersion%201.pdf

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by ivorya

It's for exhibition only to show the fans the upcoming PSA Commodore with the TTV6.

Wow. Let's go there.

But no one was there, because they won't care

[prydey]

Originally Posted by XByoot

No "very modern" engines

well, they retain the original block and head, and valve sizing, but apart from that, everything else is pretty much free. induction needs to be of the same type as original (carby or injected) and fit beneath the bonnet, otherwise its also pretty much free.

these things are extensively modified in my view.

i guess it depends how we want to view production based racing.

not saying anyone is wrong or right. just different viewpoints.

[scoupedy]

The production touring cars how do I support them when its not televised as far as I know? Just the super cars that have no resemblance to anything on the road.
Many Holden supporters didn't realise that a few years ago every car ran a Ford race Five litre V8. They are all banging on how good holdens are when not one component is Holden.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Many Holden supporters didn't realise that a few years ago every car ran a Ford race Five litre V8. They are all banging on how good holdens are when not one component is Holden.

Not so. The Falcons ran Ford SVO Motorsport 305 ci engines & the Holdens had a choice of Chev NASCAR-type Small Blocks or Holdens V8s with Perkins blocks. None of these are very close to production engines.

Did you really mean that ALL the cars (including Holdens) ran Ford V8s ?

Dr Terry

[Giant Cranium]

I'd like them to ban fuel conservation. Getting sick of watching the cars run slower to make it to the end. Go hard and put enough fuel in

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by prydey

well, they retain the original block and head, and valve sizing, but apart from that, everything else is pretty much free. induction needs to be of the same type as original (carby or injected) and fit beneath the bonnet, otherwise its also pretty much free.

these things are extensively modified in my view.

i guess it depends how we want to view production based racing.

not saying anyone is wrong or right. just different viewpoints.

Agreed they are highly modified, but they are still built from production shells, run the same suspension (although modified, TCM 'Stangs have watts links for instance) and run the same engine/trans configs in the same location so to me, they are production based.

The only way you could build a TCM car or V8 ute is by purchasing the prod car and modding it. You can't do that with a V8SC.

[ebxr8240]

Its racing who cares..

[scoupedy]

Yes at one stage they all used an engine that was a ford motorsport 5litre Holden may have made them but the design was ford. It was part of the rules.
I have read that nothing is the same as production cars now. A few years ago they we're heavily modified versions but now nothing is the same except shape and that is smaller than street version.
No one uses I transaxle in their front engine rear wheel drive street cars.
Did you know that the walkingshaw used ford fuel injection that was on RPM just last week.
Chevy used ford heads in NASCAR lol

[Nikked]

Oh Dear.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Yes at one stage they all used an engine that was a ford motorsport 5litre Holden may have made them but the design was ford. It was part of the rules.
I have read that nothing is the same as production cars now. A few years ago they we're heavily modified versions but now nothing is the same except shape and that is smaller than street version.
No one uses I transaxle in their front engine rear wheel drive street cars.
Did you know that the walkingshaw used ford fuel injection that was on RPM just last week.
Chevy used ford heads in NASCAR lol

None of this is correct mate.

At the categories inception,
Ford teams used the NASCAR Ford Motorsport block and Yates heads. This is sorta the modern day version of the ole Boss 302 motor which had a Windsor block (water intake moved to the block to suit a 'dry intake') and Cleveland heads. Around 2006ish, these heads were revised in the US and Ford teams in SC's had to adopt them.

Holden runners used the Holden 304 block/heads which of course were previously used in the Group A Commodores and prior to that, was the 308 used in Group C Commodores/A9X Torries etc.
After a few years, Holden runners wanted to switch to the Chev 18 degree and did so, except for Larry Perkins initially who soldiered on with the 304 (he used slide injection) as he had a business leasing out these engines to others.

FInally, with the advent of Project Blueprint around 2004, Holden ruuners again switched to the GM NASCAR 'Aurora' block/heads (modified with side engine mounts as the Aurora didn't have them), these heads were finally similar to Fords Cleveland heads and this has been used ever since.

The fuel injection they use is bespoke on the race engines. It's nothing like the single throttle/dual body FI on road cars so not sure what Walky was referring to.

SC's started off using what was essentially modified road going shells, Ford teams front suspension was double wishbone (road was SLAS which is effectively double wishbone), rear was essentially like road going, using a watts link but configured with the pivot on the chassis. Holden used Mcpherson strut/panhard rod front/rear but that changed to superior watts link then with blueprint, they went to the superior double wishbone.

So, even in the 90's the cars started drifting away from their road going roots.

[Dr Terry]

^^^^ Correct.

The only comment that I would add is that, yes the Chev/Aurora head is 'similar' to the Cleveland, but IIRC the Cleveland was a copy of the Chev Big Block head in the first place. Just saying'.

Also, IIRC, some of the Holden runners used Chev Bowtie heads & blocks from V8s inception in 1992/93. In other words not all of the Holdens used Holden V8s. Both Holden & Ford used NASCAR type motors from Day 1.

Dr Terry

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Gen 2 COTF allows any engine combo, ford could run a Ecoboost v6 or 4 banger if they wanted.

I'd still rather see the old Touring Car formula back, with a variety of different drivetrains, chassis, gearboxes and engines (not to mention different makes and models, rather than bolt-on bits on a common chassis).

I liked watching the old ATCC, but Supercars has lost its way.

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

God I hope so...V8 supercars are boring as bat guano. I suppose now at least it's not a two horse race with just things that look like Commodores and Falcons, but still...return it to the good old days of several classes of car all racing together, of all cylinders and capacities, and you had no idea what was going to happen or what upset would let some underdog in an unexpetced type of car get up into the lead.

Originally Posted by NX74205

I'd still rather see the old Touring Car formula back, with a variety of different drivetrains, chassis, gearboxes and engines (not to mention different makes and models, rather than bolt-on bits on a common chassis).

I liked watching the old ATCC, but Supercars has lost its way.

For those who liked the old formula of cars racing around Bathurst, with the knowledge of what is racing, is what you can actually buy on Monday (Tuesday for this weekend ) with a variety of classes, engines, sizes and body types, your dream has come true.
This weekend the Bathurst 6 hour http://bathurst6hour.com.au/ . I am sure many who wish for this type of racing to return will be avidly following it this week end and with that type of support, who knows it may become more popular than what is currently being put to us race fans.
A little help, the race starts Sunday at 9.45am and you can watch the race via live stream (so if you got an internet and can read this you can watch this for FREE) http://www.bathurst6hour.com.au/live . As this is a Ford Forum there is a few Fords competing, keep an eye on car number 1, Chaz Mostert driving the Ford Focus RS http://bathurst6hour.com.au/event-info/entry-list .
To continue with further discussion regarding the Bathurst
6 hour this Sunday, there is a thread here; https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11458915

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by NX74205

I'd still rather see the old Touring Car formula back, with a variety of different drivetrains, chassis, gearboxes and engines (not to mention different makes and models, rather than bolt-on bits on a common chassis).

I liked watching the old ATCC, but Supercars has lost its way.

G'day...
Not as much as NASCAR has...Cheers Rod

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...
Not as much as NASCAR has...Cheers Rod

All the top Touring car classes are more or less the same...bespoke chassis, control components, modified bodies, category spec engines etc...

At least Australia haven't gone down the DTM route (or nascar for that matter). DTM for its immense attention to aerodynamic grip (including DRS), NASCAR for its massive restriction on bodies (pillar angles, bonnet angle,...pretty much any surface that effects aero is controlled...)

[XBGS500]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...
Not as much as NASCAR has...Cheers Rod

As with our ATCC and NASCAR, they still have their popularity, which is seen by the huge crowds in the states but....
Just the same as over here, the purists no longer care or follow the sport, just reminisce about the old days and watch races of the era on YouTube.

No offence to anyone who owns one but a Ford Focus is not even on my radar as a potential purchase. Same league as a corolla.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by prydey

people wish to go back to production car racing without realising there still is production car racing that they can go and support.

Yeah, none of the production car racing series have ever done as well as the old group C they want to emulate.

it's not like there aren't any
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMcN6SQrtcw

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by XBGS500

No offence to anyone who owns one but a Ford Focus is not even on my radar as a potential purchase. Same league as a corolla.

I don't know.....one fitted with a V8 like they raced at the 12 hour would interest me lol