December 2018 vFacts

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by vztrt

And rangers are all private sales?

Duh. But right across their whole range toyota flog of heaps of their vehicles to fleets. Ford don’t do much outside of ranger for fleets. Toyota flog off camrys, corollas, prius, prado, lc etc for fleets. They sell a higher % of their sales to fleets than anyone else. Ford is one of the highest in private sales. They turned away from low profit fleet sales a few years ago. Except for ranger which still probably makes an ok profit on fleet sales.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by hackney

The prices of these things make me shudder!!

Which is why every one jumps on the end of model, end of 2018 plate sales but
what the cynics don't see is that these are relative small numbers of discounted vehicles.

Outside of these times, the SR5 Hilux usually undercuts the XLT by a decent amount,
enough to mostly stop Toyota's return buyers even looking at Ranger...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Duh. But right across their whole range toyota flog of heaps of their vehicles to fleets. Ford don’t do much outside of ranger for fleets. Toyota flog off camrys, corollas, prius, prado, lc etc for fleets. They sell a higher % of their sales to fleets than anyone else. Ford is one of the highest in private sales. They turned away from low profit fleet sales a few years ago. Except for ranger which still probably makes an ok profit on fleet sales.

As I remember it,
The one big break that Ranger got was when Toyota coughed and Hilux had to go
something like 9 or 12 months before getting DSC and 5-star rating,
Ranger sales took off and Ford never looked back.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Duh. But right across their whole range toyota flog of heaps of their vehicles to fleets. Ford don’t do much outside of ranger for fleets. Toyota flog off camrys, corollas, prius, prado, lc etc for fleets. They sell a higher % of their sales to fleets than anyone else. Ford is one of the highest in private sales. They turned away from low profit fleet sales a few years ago. Except for ranger which still probably makes an ok profit on fleet sales.

Not really that much out there in Ford land that sells in big numbers besides ranger.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No one is arguing that but I think it's interesting that there's Hilux, Ranger and then daylight back to the others.
Colorado is not a bad ute but it really seems lost in a sea of the "others".

and all the sales race proves to me is that Ford is not prepared to match Hilux pricing at every turn
be that 4x2s or even volume selling 4x4s, they still do pretty well getting to within 2,000 4x4s

(I underscored "at every turn" because I know someone will miss that and jump all over my statement)

Don't think Ford are worried about Ranger sales to much. At the end of the day Ford want to run the plant at full capacity and not have these cars sitting around and have to lose money to sell them.

Considering they are building the ranger in two plants in Thailand it would mean it's going well. Your not retooling a 2nd plant because your struggling to sell your vehicle.

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

right across their whole range toyota flog of heaps of their vehicles to fleets.

toyota C-HR would be a strange fleet request, I'm not saying it would be impossible to be used in a fleet, just strange.
I reckon you would find a lot more private buyers purchasing the C-HR over the fleet sales of this model. (not that the C-HR is their lead selling models)

If toyota do get a few fleet sales of the C-HR, must have to do with the way toyota and their dealers do business, as there are plenty of other manufacturers that have adequate alternatives to supply fleets with.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Don't think Ford are worried about Ranger sales to much. At the end of the day Ford want to run the plant at full capacity and not have these cars sitting around and have to lose money to sell them.

Considering they are building the ranger in two plants in Thailand it would mean it's going well. Your not retooling a 2nd plant because your struggling to sell your vehicle.

Not all the production is Ranger, Auto Alliance still builds BT50 for Mazda and Everest/Endevour..
there was talk of Ecosport going in there to replace Fiesta but I know ours is from India


They used to sell the 2WD SC petrol pick up until about 2004/2005 but regardless
of the reason, the numbers don't work for Ford today ..it's just sad.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 4stanger

toyota C-HR would be a strange fleet request, I'm not saying it would be impossible to be used in a fleet, just strange.
I reckon you would find a lot more private buyers purchasing the C-HR over the fleet sales of this model. (not that the C-HR is their lead selling models)

No one is saying that C-HR is a fleet queen, , there may be some novated leases, yes?
I think you're taking Boss's post too literally, his meaning was to consider the broad range of products
and it becomes clear that they are able to fill lots of different fleet requests from across their range
that companies like Ford and Holden simply can't match or miss out on altogether.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No one is saying that C-HR is a fleet queen, , there may be some novated leases, yes?
I think you're taking Boss's post too literally, his meaning was to consider the broad range of products
and it becomes clear that they are able to fill lots of different fleet requests from across their range
that companies like Ford and Holden simply can't match or miss out on altogether.

Must admit Hertz(UK) has a lot of them as rentals.Not for me though.

[jpd80]

Fleet sales done properly is good for business.
There's nothing wrong with fleet sales to daily Rentals provided the vehicles are
the same as retail trim, it's the old fleet strippers and taxis that hurt retail values.

Similarly, commercial fleet sales are also good business provided the discount is not excessive,
companies generally make a profit from them although not as much as retail sales.

The reason that Toyota are now so strong is that they have all bases covered in fleet and retail,
that's not to say they are dumping into fleets,more that they have a very balanced business..

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by jpd80

there may be some novated leases, yes?

My daughter bought a Triton D/cab early 2018, on lease through here government department.
The usage of this vehicle is ALL personal use,
nothing to do with her government department in regards to ownership and what she can/can't do to it.

I bought my wife a vehicle through my previous company I worked for in early 2016, the company had a deal with Mitsubishi (and couple of other manufacturers) to supply vehicles at a discount fleet price to staff, I paid for the vehicle in full, no loan, no lease, and is wholly and solely in my name on every detail of the ownership of this vehicle.

Please enlighten me, are these vehicles considered as fleet purchases but have absolutely nothing to do with any fleet?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not all the production is Ranger, Auto Alliance still builds BT50 for Mazda and Everest/Endevour..
there was talk of Ecosport going in there to replace Fiesta but I know ours is from India


They used to sell the 2WD SC petrol pick up until about 2004/2005 but regardless
of the reason, the numbers don't work for Ford today ..it's just sad.

Your right aat doesn't just build rangers. It is the main vehicle in there. But my point is still valid. You don't tool up a second plant because your struggling to move stock.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Your right aat doesn't just build rangers. It is the main vehicle in there. But my point is still valid. You don't tool up a second plant because your struggling to move stock.

I think you'll find the intent is to eventually move out of the alliance plant,
Mazda seem to be making a lot more products there while Ford is down to
Ranger and Everest - it looks like BT50 has moved over to the new plant.

Ford is not struggling for production room with Ranger, their new plant is plenty big enough for everything T6.

[BENT_8]

Numbers are in, seems my neighbour who suggested Dmax was on the march might be onto something..

A quote from my post in the 'Take that Holden' thread..

'He told me to keep an eye on Dmax sales over the next few months.'

Dmax up 33% and into 3rd spot in December and 4th overall.
Hilux and Ranger down despite generous incentives.

Mux up by 30+% too.

Commodore down 320 units, Mustang down 340 units and more importantly 30% for the year.

https://performancedrive.com.au/aust...the-year-0713/

[Rob 351]

Falcon 5th best selling large car under $70k for 2018!
Mustang still averaging 500 a month which is quite extraordinary. Ford must be doing cartwheels with the Mustang in what is now what..... about 4 years since its return to Australia! Sells 4-5 times the units of it’s nearest competitor!
What was Fords original prediction with the Mustang in Australia? About 1000 units a year iirc.
Why wasn’t the Camaro on that list? One would think it would have at least moved 100 units for the month!
It’s not even on the list!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Numbers are in, seems my neighbour who suggested Dmax was on the march might be onto something..

A quote from my post in the 'Take that Holden' thread..

'He told me to keep an eye on Dmax sales over the next few months.'

Dmax up 33% and into 3rd spot in December and 4th overall.
Hilux and Ranger down despite generous incentives.

Mux up by 30+% too.


https://performancedrive.com.au/aust...the-year-0713/

A little bit of colour on those percentages you mentioned...


1. Toyota HiLux – 3871 (down from 4671)
2. Ford Ranger – 3365 (down from 3469)
3. Isuzu D-Max – 2184 (up from 1587)
4. Mitsubishi Triton – 2000 (down from 2404)

Hilux is down 800

Ford is down 104

D-Max is up 597

Triton is Down 404

Rather than runaway Ranger buyers, Maybe D-Max's sales increases come from Hilux and Triton?

Commodore down 320 units, Mustang down 340 units and more importantly 30% for the year.

I'll let the Mustang sales figures speak for themselves but there was a significant upgrade this year...

Month.............2018..............2017
Jan..................583................440
Feb..................577................492
Mar..................622................705....... Q1 sales....1,782 versus 1,637...Sales up 145
Apr..................381................639
May.................257..............1,351
Jun..................635..............1,276....... Q2 sales....1,273 versus 3,266....Sales down 1,993
Jul...................546.................919
Aug..................736................748
Sep..................422................659....... Q3 sales....1,704 versus 2,326....Sales down 622
Oct..................569.................629
Nov.................780.................711
Dec.................439.................451....... Q4 sales....1,788 versus 1,791....Sales down 3
Total.............6,402..............9,165

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A little bit of colour on those percentages you mentioned...


1. Toyota HiLux – 3871 (down from 4671)
2. Ford Ranger – 3365 (down from 3469)
3. Isuzu D-Max – 2184 (up from 1587)
4. Mitsubishi Triton – 2000 (down from 2404)

Hilux is down 800

Ford is down 104

D-Max is up 597

Triton is Down 404

Rather than runaway Ranger buyers, Maybe D-Max's sales increases come from Hilux and Triton?



I'll let the Mustang sales figures speak for themselves but there was a significant upgrade this year...

Month.............2018..............2017
Jan..................583................440
Feb..................577................492
Mar..................622................705....... Q1 sales....1,782 versus 1,637...Sales up 145
Apr..................381................639
May.................257..............1,351
Jun..................635..............1,276....... Q2 sales....1,273 versus 3,266....Sales down 1,993
Jul...................546.................919
Aug..................736................748
Sep..................422................659....... Q3 sales....1,704 versus 2,326....Sales down 622
Oct..................569.................629
Nov.................780.................711
Dec.................439.................451....... Q4 sales....1,788 versus 1,791....Sales down 3
Total.............6,402..............9,165

If you recall from my post in that thread, i said that it was both Ranger AND Hilux that my neighbours customers were turning away from so a downturn in Hilux sales is inline with his first hand experiences as a salesman.

Triton has just been replaced with a new model so its quite normal to see a slump as customers wait for the new model to become available for delivery.
I think that would be a fair assumption considering you've used it to justify the downturn in both Ranger and Mustang sales this year prior and post changeover..

Either way, Dmax made significant ground at Ranger and Hilux's expense, that would support what he told me and what i relayed to you.
I put it in writing a week ago and it has been proven correct, but im sure your connections just forgot to mention it to you..

[naddis01]

Looking at Dmax sales figures, they seem relatively consistent across the year roughly between 1400-1700pm. Maybe with the average increasing slightly across the year. The only significant exceptions to this being June and December. Smells like EOFY and EOY sales to me.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A little bit of colour on those percentages you mentioned...


1. Toyota HiLux – 3871 (down from 4671)
2. Ford Ranger – 3365 (down from 3469)
3. Isuzu D-Max – 2184 (up from 1587)
4. Mitsubishi Triton – 2000 (down from 2404)

Hilux is down 800

Ford is down 104

D-Max is up 597

Triton is Down 404

Rather than runaway Ranger buyers, Maybe D-Max's sales increases come from Hilux and Triton?



I'll let the Mustang sales figures speak for themselves but there was a significant upgrade this year...

Month.............2018..............2017
Jan..................583................440
Feb..................577................492
Mar..................622................705....... Q1 sales....1,782 versus 1,637...Sales up 145
Apr..................381................639
May.................257..............1,351
Jun..................635..............1,276....... Q2 sales....1,273 versus 3,266....Sales down 1,993
Jul...................546.................919
Aug..................736................748
Sep..................422................659....... Q3 sales....1,704 versus 2,326....Sales down 622
Oct..................569.................629
Nov.................780.................711
Dec.................439.................451....... Q4 sales....1,788 versus 1,791....Sales down 3
Total.............6,402..............9,165

Facts and data from you JPD, not BS like we get from “some”.

Well done

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

If you recall from my post in that thread, i said that it was both Ranger AND Hilux that my neighbours customers were turning away from so a downturn in Hilux sales is inline with his first hand experiences as a salesman.

And we never established whether that was nation wide or just a local trend for whatever reason.

Triton has just been replaced with a new model so its quite normal to see a slump as customers wait for the new model to become available for delivery.
I think that would be a fair assumption considering you've used it to justify the downturn in both Ranger and Mustang sales this year prior and post changeover..

Notice how I got you to say that....

Either way, Dmax made significant ground at Ranger and Hilux's expense, that would support what he told me and what i relayed to you.
I put it in writing a week ago and it has been proven correct, but im sure your connections just forgot to mention it to you..

Actually, before you get too cocky, I think we both have been was mislead by sales data
in the article you linked. Looking closer, the differences quoted for monthly sales were
the change from actually Nov to Dec not the change from Dec 2018 to Dec 2017

Here are the actual figures

December...........2018..............2017
Hilux...................3,871..............3,949.. ....a slight drop of 78
Ranger................3,365..............3,458.... ..a slight drop of 78
D-Max.................2,184..............2,053...... an increase of 131
Triton..................2,000..............2,645.. ....Yeah, model change over, later than Ranger?

So no, I don't see any significant bleed away in December's national sales.

Sorry about the edits, I got Triton numbers back to front

[bigwil]

What was commodores total number for 2018 please

[jpd80]

There were also two less selling days in December compared to 2017.

On pro rata selling, it means that Hilux and Ranger lost approximately
352 sales and 306 sales while D-max probably lost another 199 sales.

Originally Posted by bigwil

What was commodores total number for 2018 please

Holden Commodore – 9040 (down from 23,676 in 2017)

Cheers bigwil...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And we never established whether that was nation wide or just a local trend for whatever reason.

And as i said, unless this sentiment is central to his area which would suggest the additional units were all sold by him, i'd say its more widespread

Originally Posted by jpd80

Notice how I got you to say that....

Lol, ok, you got me, yes this type of deflection is usually your strategy on these matters.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Actually, before you get too cocky, I think we both have been was mislead by sales data
in the article you linked. Looking closer, the differences quoted for monthly sales were
the change from actually Nov to Dec not the change from Dec 2018 to Dec 2017

Here are the actual figures

December...........2018..............2017
Hilux...................3,871..............3,949.. ....a slight drop of 78
Ranger................3,365..............3,458.... ..a slight drop of 78
D-Max.................2,184..............2,053...... an increase of 131
Triton..................2,000..............2,645.. ....Yeah, model change over, later than Ranger?

So no, I don't see any significant bleed away in December's national sales.

Sorry about the edits, I got Triton numbers back to front

Why stop there, lets look a little further back at trends

...............Nov 2017.......Dec 2017
Hilux...........4,103............3,949 a drop of 154
Ranger........3,576............3,458 a drop of 128
Dmax..........1,699............2,053 a rise of 354

...............Nov 2018.......Dec 2018
Hilux...........4,671............3,871 a drop of 800 despite incentives
Ranger........3,469............3,365 a drop of 104 despite incentives & refresh
Dmax..........1,587............2,184 a rise of 597

So comparing the November to December swings from 2017 to 2018..

Hilux got smashed by an additional drop of 644 units but came off an extraordinary November 2018 compared to November 2017.
Ranger only fared 24 units better off despite offering generous incentives in 2018 on a new model.
Dmax increased its December 2018 gain by 243 units over its December 2017 gain on a 12 month older product.

And im not sure where you get 2 less sales days in December 2018 from, both December 2017 and December 2018 had 24 sales days.

None of this is the elephant in the room though, the biggest concern is that Ford as a manufacturer had the largest yearly slump for a brand with established product with a loss of 9,000 units to 69,081 and is now behind its last full year of Falcon production (2015 where it moved 70,454 units) despite having the No2 Ute and best selling sports car in the market.

Obviously Holden lost 33% or 30,000 which can be contributed to the loss of local manufacturing compared to 2017 which just highlights how important the locally built Commodore was to Holdens entire range and how the imported car has been slow to take off despite moving on average 750 units per month.

[arronm]

Problem is now driving a mustang is liking driving a Hyundia I30. Everyone has one. Common as.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by arronm

Problem is now driving a mustang is liking driving a Hyundia I30. Everyone has one. Common as.

How good is it hey! Shows that people still have a passion in cars. Would rather see a rd with 90% mustangs than a whole heap of boring commuter cars

[Rob 351]

Amazing thing about being a Mustang owner is their is a respect amongst the owners, similar to Harley riders. When driving a Mustang and see another Mustang coming towards you on the road, 95% of owners acknowledge each other.
I’ve had mine now for a couple of years and the respect is growing. It’s pretty cool really!
Won’t get that with your I30.......

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by arronm

Problem is now driving a mustang is liking driving a Hyundia I30. Everyone has one. Common as.

We have just come from Commodore and Falcon which were the most common cars on the road. Mustang has a long way to go before it gets to that stage.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And as i said, unless this sentiment is central to his area which would suggest the additional units were all sold by him, i'd say its more widespread



Lol, ok, you got me, yes this type of deflection is usually your strategy on these matters.



Why stop there, lets look a little further back at trends

...............Nov 2017.......Dec 2017
Hilux...........4,103............3,949 a drop of 154
Ranger........3,576............3,458 a drop of 128
Dmax..........1,699............2,053 a rise of 354

...............Nov 2018.......Dec 2018
Hilux...........4,671............3,871 a drop of 800 despite incentives
Ranger........3,469............3,365 a drop of 104 despite incentives & refresh
Dmax..........1,587............2,184 a rise of 597

So comparing the November to December swings from 2017 to 2018..

Hilux got smashed by an additional drop of 644 units but came off an extraordinary November 2018 compared to November 2017.
Ranger only fared 24 units better off despite offering generous incentives in 2018 on a new model.
Dmax increased its December 2018 gain by 243 units over its December 2017 gain on a 12 month older product.

I think Toyota's drop of 800 sales has more to do with pull ahead due to incentives in November...
Ford's drop of 104 is consequential of a new model with increased pricing, I suspect that most of
the heavily discounted MY 18 runout stock was exhausted by December which is why we now
see 2018 Plate MY19s near those same discounts, there's only a few of those as well.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There were also two less selling days in December compared to 2017.

On pro rata selling, it means that Hilux and Ranger lost approximately
352 sales and 306 sales while D-max probably lost another 199 sales.




Holden Commodore – 9040 (down from 23,676 in 2017)

Cheers bigwil...

Commodore down 62%.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford's drop of 104 is consequential of a new model with increased pricing, I suspect that most of
the heavily discounted MY 18 runout stock was exhausted by December which is why we now
see 2018 Plate MY19s near those same discounts, there's only a few of those as well.

You sure, because craig was still quoting pricing for MY18 in January.

5/1/19 @12:16pm
The MY18 is $51,990 drive away + Metallic Paint + Technology Pack

To be honest though, im not sure what any of that has to do with Dmax making bigger gains in December 18 over December 17 compared to the respective preceeding month to the tune of 10 more units per business day.
In a market which is down on the previous year and whilst the opposition is offering very generous incentives, thats a fair gain to make and probably why the achievement was highlighted for mention in the article.