Roundabout Incident - Who is at Fault?

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

You say that, but then just keep repeating nonsense to avoid admitting you made a mistake.


And again, no, he just doesn't.
It's a ROUNDABOUT, the lanes go AROUND the roundabout.

Have a look at the moment of impact, around the 20~31 second mark.
You can clearly see the dividing line, to the Cam car's RIGHT, and the red car has hit him by failing to stay in the right lane.

So where was the red car supposed to be when exiting the roundabout. In the median strip?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I’m nit sure what you were watching, but as he’s exiting the round about clearly he has started crossing into the right hand lane.

Poor intersection though.

Lol, the cam car had no intention of exiting at the same exit as the red car, he was continuing straight ahead as is allowed from the left lane, the only time he turns left is after contact and with the intention of speaking with the red cars driver.
You can not, and I repeat, can not exit a roundabout at the first exit from the right hand lane which is what the red car attempted to do.

[PG2]

This is the point of contact...




This is only my opinion, but the cam car is not facing to turn left but is continuing in the direction of the roundabout.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by marty351

So where was the red car supposed to be when exiting the roundabout. In the median strip?

No, the red car can exit at the second exit as from the right hand lane you are allowed to do and preferable with a left hand indicator to let those approaching from the left to know that you are exiting, or he can turn right under the same requirements, at no time can a car in the right hand lane attempt to exit at the first exit, its sign posted prior and marked on the road

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by marty351

So where was the red car supposed to be when exiting the roundabout. In the median strip?

Have you not bothered to read any of the thread???

He's not supposed to be exiting, that's the whole ****in point.
as is clearly shone from the arrows, you can't enter a roundabout in the righthand lane and take the first exit.

The cam car must exit at the 2nd exit, so at that point the red car can exit also.

The "lanes" on a roundabout are just that, ROUND. Two concentric doughnuts.
The lanes don't actually GO anywhere, they exist purely as guidelines for the cars, which must enter and exert according to the RULES.

The assumption is that on a small roundabout, traffic will roughly travel at the same pace. Therefore since you must give-way when entering, the only vehicles you should be alongside are those that entered the roundabout with you. So as long as everybody follows the rules, there is no problem.
The red car doesn't. End of story.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by PG2

This is the point of contact...

image


This is only my opinion, but the cam car is not facing to turn left but is continuing in the direction of the roundabout.

exactly.
The only way the cam car could be at fault is if the left lane was marked as a left turn lane only, which it clearly isn't, he has every right to continue on towards the exit past the silver car in the picture, or where the white SUV is currently obstructing on its path.

It scares me that people don't get this, mind you, as a professional driver I see it daily.

[DJR-351]

Red car at fault but it's a ****fully signed roundabout....

[KobiXR6T]

From reading some of the replies here I'm concerned about you blokes!


Seems pretty bloody simple. Look at the sign, look at the arrows on the road as you enter the round about. Old mate in the red decides to throw a hard left infront of the 4wd when he shouldn't have.

The 4wd was moving well above the speed of everyone else though and should be pre empting such behaviours, especially on a round about, and even more so on one that has the 1st exit up a bit further than normal...

Every day I watch cars enter a round about, side by side, both indicating right.. they go past the first exit and then indicate left.. they were never going right.. only ever straight.. and on the odd occasion some *** clown in the left hand lane decides to continue to the right.. almost as often as another *** clown in the right lane decides to veer left into the first exit.

Long story short, I'm very wary of how long I spend in another cars blind spot, and where we are on the road when I enter that position.

[marty351]

The accident didn't occur because of a left or right turn that didn't happen, both lanes can continue straight through as the painted markings indicate, left lane can turn left or go straight and the right lane can turn right or go straight so no accident should have happened in first place. Both cars were continuing straight through and cam car crosses into the right lane. The video doesn't lie.

[JasonACT]

That exit isn't "straight through" from the entry they used - it's a 4 entry/exit roundabout and exactly two streets intersecting. By exiting there, they changed streets, if they took the next exit (No. 2) they would have remained on the same street.

Edit:

[aussiblue]

So where was the red car supposed to be when exiting the roundabout. In the median strip?

No at the second exit which is the next one around; he illegally exited at the first exit probably mistakenly thinking it was the second exit.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by marty351

The accident didn't occur because of a left or right turn that didn't happen, both lanes can continue straight through as the painted markings indicate, left lane can turn left or go straight and the right lane can turn right or go straight so no accident should have happened in first place. Both cars were continuing straight through and cam car crosses into the right lane. The video doesn't lie.

Ok, lets make it a little easier, re watch the video and from the entry point, count the exits which appear before the one the red car attempts to exit at.

If you don't see any, id suggest the one the red car attempted to exit at was the first and an illegal manoeuvre.

Me thinks marty351 is taking the pi55, you couldn't be that....incorrect

[Citroënbender]

The roundabout is signed (road marked) pretty much exactly how the driver handbook diagram posted, shows. Camera car was entering from the bottom right.

[KobiXR6T]

Originally Posted by marty351

The accident didn't occur because of a left or right turn that didn't happen, both lanes can continue straight through as the painted markings indicate, left lane can turn left or go straight and the right lane can turn right or go straight so no accident should have happened in first place. Both cars were continuing straight through and cam car crosses into the right lane. The video doesn't lie.

You've got a bit of it right..

Where does the red car pull to a stop? If they weren't turning left, and impact was made on their left hand side, why did they go left?

Pause the video mate.. Pretty clear which car crossed into the other.. 4wd didn't change direction.. not until after impact and brakes were applied.

[aussiblue]

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Default Re: Roundabout Incident - Who is at Fault?
The accident didn't occur because of a left or right turn that didn't happen, both lanes can continue straight through as the painted markings indicate, left lane can turn left or go straight and the right lane can turn right or go straight so no accident should have happened in first place. Both cars were continuing straight through and cam car crosses into the right lane. The video doesn't lie.

No look at the arrows on the road as they enter the roundabout and note this is the first not the second exit after they entered the roundabout. But it needs some redesigning like a island painted over the lane that the red car was in at that first exit so the cars in that lane know they cannot exit there. Red cars vision may have been blocked by the 4WD cam driver and he may have assumed he had already passed the first exit.

[CyberWasp]

[marty351]

Please observe post #33.

[X-AHH]

Based on the comments and votes on this thread, I would be a bit nervous heading through one of these roundabouts along side some of the people who have contributed here. Hopefully you have good insurance? Time for a brush up on the road rules for those who think that the Cam car is at fault. Looking at the footage, the driver of the red car seems fairly hesitant to enter the roundabout, slows right down and pauses for a second or two before taking the plunge. Wonder if they weren't quite sure how to tackle such a complex driving challenge as a two laned roundabout?

[JasonACT]

Shenanigans, and good night!

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by marty351

Please observe post #33.

This is too funny, you think that pic was posted to support your view, it highlights how wrong you are.
The lane the cam car is about to cross is not, I repeat, is not the red cars lane, it is an exit lane for cars which entered the roundabout at either of the entry points prior to where these two entered.

[Itsme]

Simple, Red car is at fault, white arrows dictates your direction options of your lane.

[X-AHH]

Originally Posted by xeeclipse

The guy in the ute should have his keys confiscated, don't you read road markings?

Turning right into a roundabout from the left lane? Suppose there's a first for everything.... Karma

............. Never mind, it's already been said a dozen times by others.

[Trendseeker]

They could both be at fault.
The red car doesn’t follow the white arrows indicating that the right-hand lane can go only straight ahead or turn right. Also, the red car doesn’t use their turn indicator when they enter the roundabout.
However, the camera car doesn’t give way to a vehicle that is already in the roundabout, and he doesn’t slow down when there arrears to be a chance of a crash (also part of the rules).

[Giant Cranium]

marty, head to the rms tomorrow and drop your licence off. the bus is in your future

[aussiblue]

10
However, the camera car doesn’t give way to a vehicle that is already in the roundabout

That only applies when entering the roundabout per https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#...ation/2014/758 and https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#.../part9/rule114

"114 Giving way when entering or driving in a roundabout
(1) A driver entering a roundabout must give way to:
(a) any vehicle in the roundabout, and
(b) a tram that is entering or approaching the roundabout.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
Note 1. Tram is defined in the Dictionary.
Note 2. For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision—see the definition in the Dictionary.
(2) A driver driving in a roundabout must give way to a tram that is in, entering or approaching the roundabout.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
(3) In this rule:
tram includes a bus travelling along tram tracks.
Note 1. Bus and travelling along tram tracks are defined in the Dictionary."

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by marty351

(you're not allowed to change lanes in an intersection)

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.a...bouts/1633445/

Drivers may change lanes if necessary on a roundabout but must indicate and must give way to motorists in the lane they are moving into.

Shenanigans!

[Citroënbender]

The solution is clearly for all active forum members within travelling distance of the roundabout, to converge on it at an agreed time and demonstrate to each other, how it's done. Cav will supply umbrella girls from his extensive harem.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

marty, head to the rms tomorrow and drop your licence off. the bus is in your future

25 years of driving, 1 at fault accident (minor), owning a v8 for 6 years and never lost a demerit point.
Yeah, nah, I'll keep my license and stick to the lane I'm driving in.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by marty351

25 years of driving, 1 at fault accident (minor), owning a v8 for 6 years and never lost a demerit point.

Yeah, nah, I'll keep my license and stick to the lane I'm driving in.

Oh my. You really have no idea.

The problem with that roundabout is very average line marking. Red car still wrong

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

This discussion, and the two different view points being expressed, is exactly the reason I posted this video and asked the question who was at fault.

Like some others, I initially made a call, then changed it and then thought about it some more and....referred to the vic road rules to clarify in my mind the interpretation of the law.

I'll post my views tomorrow, when I've got a chance to link the reference material required to clarify the position.