A query from Franco

[XR Martin]

I'd rather be stranded in a petrol vehicle without fuel than stranded in a grenaded 3L TD Nissan any day.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Is duel fuel an option cause i’m sure there are a lot of petrol cruisers and patrols out there running duel fuel to keep running costs down, and to boost touring range.

mate of mine had a mid 90's duel fuel cruzer and had nothing but problems with it all the time
and with the duel fuel in his the gas tank options is either in the back reducing storage or sleeping or its under but they have to half the fuel tank to put it under (as his was) so a no winner situation in increasing range

[marty351]

There will always be problems with duel fuel.

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Jack91

Put a couple of litres of salt water in the tank of a diesel and a petrol and then tell me how tough diesels are. Ive got both and the diesel 'image' of reliability is the biggest lie out there.

Congratulations Jack 91! This may well be the the most ridiculous post on this thread so far.

Last time I checked, all my diesels had fuel filters. Cut the handle half-way through on your axe and you'd probably effect its reliability as well. The question would be, just like pouring some salt water into your fuel system, why would you do that?

Lay it on me mate, I've got broad shoulders!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Congratulations Jack 91! This may well be the the most ridiculous post on this thread so far.

Surely it's the first reply, what Barra?

[Cav]

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/for...e/under-15000/


Yeah OK it's AWD rather than 4x4; and it is diesel


The Territory is the best kept secret in Australia.

[Jack91]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Congratulations Jack 91! This may well be the the most ridiculous post on this thread so far.

Last time I checked, all my diesels had fuel filters. Cut the handle half-way through on your axe and you'd probably effect its reliability as well. The question would be, just like pouring some salt water into your fuel system, why would you do that?

Lay it on me mate, I've got broad shoulders!

Yeah nice. Think you missed the point there champ. I've never heard of bad 91 from servos blowing engines. Even dealers are flogging extra filters because the smallest bit of crap and its game over. I have one in my ranger and run fuel doctor aswell when in the outback with it, and youll find a LOT of people do the same with the newer diesels.
Relativity? Well, i use my 4wds, and its not uncommon for my filler neck to be submerged in muddy water. I have extended breathers but many dont.
Oh wise man, tell me what makes diesel superior in terms of reliability? Cos the only people i know swapping from petrol to diesel are in td42s, 12hts or 6bts. Ls and barra though...

[Brazen]

Diesel fuel is highly hygroscopic so it absorbs a hell of a lot of moisture, even from the atmosphere. The problem is nowadays they run the common rail Diesel engines at such massive high pressures that the slightest bit of moisture will rapidly heat and expand and blow apart the injectors and sometimes take the high pressure fuel pump and fuel system with it.

So a bit of moisture may make a petrol motors cough and splutter and go on it’s merry way. Same bit of moisture can write off a diesel motor. Last one I heard was about 11k damage in a Hilux. Always run an aftermarket fuel filter in a diesel.

[roKWiz]

Don't yah just love modern diesels.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Diesel fuel is highly hygroscopic so it absorbs a hell of a lot of moisture, even from the atmosphere. The problem is nowadays they run the common rail Diesel engines at such massive high pressures that the slightest bit of moisture will rapidly heat and expand and blow apart the injectors and sometimes take the high pressure fuel pump and fuel system with it.

So a bit of moisture may make a petrol motors cough and splutter and go on it’s merry way. Same bit of moisture can write off a diesel motor. Last one I heard was about 11k damage in a Hilux. Always run an aftermarket fuel filter in a diesel.

The most expensive diesel job I had come through my workshop was I subbied out a customers GU Patrol for an injection pump and new injectors on the lovely hand grenade ZD30 - we diagnosed it with the help of a local diesel mechanic but we didn't have the skills to do that job.

Cost him $7500 all up with me making some cash out of it, tow trucks there and back etc.

That's the sort of crapola I'm trying to avoid especially when you're talking about buying a car that's 10-20 years old.

Yeah you double your cost at the pumps but $7500 buys a few litres.

[Crazy Dazz]

Anybody that thinks Petrol is superior to diesel, in a 10~20yr old large 4WD, needs psychiatric help.

Yes, there are plenty of dual-fuel conversions out there. Why do you think that is??
People cheap out, but the petrol version, then figure out they can't afford to drive the bloody thing.
This isn't like your Camry, or even like a Falcon (many of which get converted anyway) we're talking another order of magnitude of consumption here.

I had a converted GQ Patrol, and as Perth car with occasional trips to the bush and beach, it was fine. But yes, the gas tank replaces the petrol and a belly tank is fitted. Doesn't do much for the range, and I certainly wouldn't want to be out in BF hunting for a servo with gas.

The TD42 is literally a truck engine. The construction is heavy duty, and they are built to last. Many in light trucks and buses have clocked up 700kk+
Their adbundance of low-end torque is also ideally suited to hauling an uber-heavy 4WD, and for offroading.
Plus there is simply so much less to go wrong. No ignition, EFI, electric pumps, CA sensors, O2 sensors, etc.

Provided you have enough battery juice to crack the cut-off solenoid, we can push start it within a car-length on flat ground.
And if you should find yourself stranded and out of fuel, and you manage to flag down a passing truckie, guess what he's got to offer.

I'm not defending diesel's environmental creds. They produce more NOX, and when pushed out pump out all manner of disgusting crud. But at the age you are looking they remain the best fit for purpose.

Now granted, if you start looking at newer EFI Diesels, it does start adding back some of the same complexities that petrol engines have. That's why, in your budget, I recommend sticking with old skool tech.
In the case of the Isuzu engine, avoid anything with a 'C' on the end. a Rodeo with the 2.8 from around the 2000 year should be ok.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The most expensive diesel job I had come through my workshop was I subbied out a customers GU Patrol for an injection pump and new injectors on the lovely hand grenade ZD30 - we diagnosed it with the help of a local diesel mechanic but we didn't have the skills to do that job.

Cost him $7500 all up with me making some cash out of it, tow trucks there and back etc.

That's the sort of crapola I'm trying to avoid especially when you're talking about buying a car that's 10-20 years old.

Yeah you double your cost at the pumps but $7500 buys a few litres.

Farmer I do work for, misus stuffed their top of the line Landcruiser, kept drivng for a week with (check engine light glowing) All 8 injectors @ 1800 bucks ea plus pump and labour came to 23 000. Not sure of the outcome re Toyota warranty.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Anybody that thinks Petrol is superior to diesel, in a 10~20yr old large 4WD, needs psychiatric help.

Yes, there are plenty of dual-fuel conversions out there. Why do you think that is??
People cheap out, but the petrol version, then figure out they can't afford to drive the bloody thing.
This isn't like your Camry, or even like a Falcon (many of which get converted anyway) we're talking another order of magnitude of consumption here.

I had a converted GQ Patrol, and as Perth car with occasional trips to the bush and beach, it was fine. But yes, the gas tank replaces the petrol and a belly tank is fitted. Doesn't do much for the range, and I certainly wouldn't want to be out in BF hunting for a servo with gas.

The TD42 is literally a truck engine. The construction is heavy duty, and they are built to last. Many in light trucks and buses have clocked up 700kk+
Their adbundance of low-end torque is also ideally suited to hauling an uber-heavy 4WD, and for offroading.
Plus there is simply so much less to go wrong. No ignition, EFI, electric pumps, CA sensors, O2 sensors, etc.

Provided you have enough battery juice to crack the cut-off solenoid, we can push start it within a car-length on flat ground.
And if you should find yourself stranded and out of fuel, and you manage to flag down a passing truckie, guess what he's got to offer.

I'm not defending diesel's environmental creds. They produce more NOX, and when pushed out pump out all manner of disgusting crud. But at the age you are looking they remain the best fit for purpose.

Now granted, if you start looking at newer EFI Diesels, it does start adding back some of the same complexities that petrol engines have. That's why, in your budget, I recommend sticking with old skool tech.
In the case of the Isuzu engine, avoid anything with a 'C' on the end. a Rodeo with the 2.8 from around the 2000 year should be ok.

Dazz, That was what I was trying to get at re the other thread about driving in the outback with older diesels vs petrol.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Anybody that thinks Petrol is superior to diesel, in a 10~20yr old large 4WD, needs psychiatric help.

Yes, there are plenty of dual-fuel conversions out there. Why do you think that is??
People cheap out, but the petrol version, then figure out they can't afford to drive the bloody thing.
This isn't like your Camry, or even like a Falcon (many of which get converted anyway) we're talking another order of magnitude of consumption here.

I had a converted GQ Patrol, and as Perth car with occasional trips to the bush and beach, it was fine. But yes, the gas tank replaces the petrol and a belly tank is fitted. Doesn't do much for the range, and I certainly wouldn't want to be out in BF hunting for a servo with gas.

The TD42 is literally a truck engine. The construction is heavy duty, and they are built to last. Many in light trucks and buses have clocked up 700kk+
Their adbundance of low-end torque is also ideally suited to hauling an uber-heavy 4WD, and for offroading.
Plus there is simply so much less to go wrong. No ignition, EFI, electric pumps, CA sensors, O2 sensors, etc.

Provided you have enough battery juice to crack the cut-off solenoid, we can push start it within a car-length on flat ground.
And if you should find yourself stranded and out of fuel, and you manage to flag down a passing truckie, guess what he's got to offer.

I'm not defending diesel's environmental creds. They produce more NOX, and when pushed out pump out all manner of disgusting crud. But at the age you are looking they remain the best fit for purpose.

Now granted, if you start looking at newer EFI Diesels, it does start adding back some of the same complexities that petrol engines have. That's why, in your budget, I recommend sticking with old skool tech.
In the case of the Isuzu engine, avoid anything with a 'C' on the end. a Rodeo with the 2.8 from around the 2000 year should be ok.

The only diesel Land Cruiser or Patrol that $12K is going to buy is the hand grenade ZD30 or an 1992 80 series 1HZ flogged out ****box with 750,000km on it:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6029576/?Cr=0

Its the same age as me, has nearly 300,000km on the clock and is $3000 over budget.

Regardless of 'how good' diesel is, the budget doesn't allow a decent condition Land Cruiser or Patrol in diesel - end of story.

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Jack91

Oh wise man, tell me what makes diesel superior in terms of reliability? Cos the only people i know swapping from petrol to diesel are in td42s, 12hts or 6bts. Ls and barra though...

I must have missed something Jack. Where did I make that claim?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The only diesel Land Cruiser or Patrol that $12K is going to buy is the hand grenade ZD30 or an 1992 80 series 1HZ flogged out ****box with 750,000km on it:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6029576/?Cr=0

Its the same age as me, has nearly 300,000km on the clock and is $3000 over budget.

Regardless of 'how good' diesel is, the budget doesn't allow a decent condition Land Cruiser or Patrol in diesel - end of story.

Franco, So a jacked up XF Falcon, Perkins diesel powered ex taxi will be out ?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Franco, So a jacked up XF Falcon, Perkins diesel powered ex taxi will be out ?

I'm actually keen on a perkins diesel XF for my own fleet but in this case, unfortunately no

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Regardless of 'how good' diesel is, the budget doesn't allow a decent condition Land Cruiser or Patrol in diesel - end of story.

Yeah, but you've got to give him credit, the novel made for enthralling reading, having said that, I thought his previous post where he mentioned the diesel Jackaroo was the pick of the bunch, my In laws had a 3.5 petrol, called into their local Holden dealer to see about getting some work done, first thing Holden dealer said was if its the diesel version move along, not interested in working on them, nothing but trouble.
Says something about them if the dealer wouldn't touch it.

I was looking at the petrol GU Patrol, they reckon they're ok with injected gas but look for the 4.5l as the 4.8 is quite costly to keep running in comparison, something about valve clearance adjustment.

I thought about one of these until I read about the 4.8's costs

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/blai...gon/1228027484

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/klem...990/1233574072

Whilst Wiki is anything but gospel truth, this is interesting with regard to the 4.8l..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Patrol
'Its TB48DE engine is very popular among the tuning community in the middle east, especially in the UAE. The TB48DE engine is easily modifiable and is shown to be able to handle over 2,000 hp (1,491 kW) for several sand hills and sand drag challenges in the region.'

Barra who..

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm actually keen on a perkins diesel XF for my own fleet but in this case, unfortunately no

Love the Mazda / Perkins, bombproof.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Cost him $7500 all up with me making some cash out of it, tow trucks there and back etc.

That's the sort of crapola I'm trying to avoid especially when you're talking about buying a car that's 10-20 years old.

Yeah you double your cost at the pumps but $7500 buys a few litres.

If your mate is a turn-key motorist, who's going to hand his car over to rip-off merchants every time it hiccups, then tell him to keep his $12k, save a bit more, and buy a new Picanto.
Every 2nd hand car is going to cost you money, and if you can't DIY, then you just should not bother.
An injector pump can be rebuilt for a few hundred bucks, and is much easier to replace than the heads and big-ends that typically fail on the petrol engines.

[Falcon SXR8]

Love me old rodeo, i have had 2. The tf models are great with the 4jb1t, bullet proof japanese mechanically injected diesel. My current one has a low 400 000 on the clock now, the only major thing that has been done to it was the injector pump at 250 000 and the fella who rebuilt it just did what needed doing on the pump and cost me $800, plus a few ball joints, brake pads. No joke it still has the stock injectors, stock turbo, power steering pump, alternator, gearbox everything. Gets me 600km from 55liters every fuel up. I will never sell it, and could easily go and buy something newer if i wanted.

Older diesels were great, the new ones yep apart from the 4jj1 isuzu's I wouldn't touch them, far to costly to repair and far to complex to last the distance. Unfortunately these days they don't offer a petrol option so your stuffed either way

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

save a bit more, and buy a new Picanto.

Surely you'd recommend the X-Line for the additional ground clearance.

[ozpacman]

With a 12K budget Franco, I reckon I'd be inclined to look at a one of the dual cabs. I just think any Land Cruiser wagon or similar in that price range is going to have been driven to death.

They're certainly out there when you start looking. I just looked at BT50 Mazda dual cabs on Carsales,com and came up with this one. At 170K on the odometer a ute like that has a lot of life ahead of it if it's well looked after:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6203339/?Cr=9

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

With a 12K budget Franco, I reckon I'd be inclined to look at a one of the dual cabs. I just think any Land Cruiser wagon or similar in that price range is going to have been driven to death.

They're certainly out there when you star looking. I just looked at BT50 Mazda dual cabs on Carsales,com and came up with this one. At 170K on the odometer a ute like that has a lot of life ahead of it if it's well looked after:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6203339/?Cr=9

There's a few Challenger and Triton around in the price range with that mileage, more inclined with the Challenger over the Triton even though they share components - auto and SUV body type.

Looking at VIC and specifically dealerships there's sweet FA available from the rest of the Thailand special manufacturers without a bazillion kilometers on them.

[ozpacman]

Then again I just spotted this Cruiser wagon with 227K on the clock for under 10 grand so they are out there as well:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...6456910/?Cr=10

You hear plenty of stories of these 6 cylinder Cruisers clocking up impressively high mileages, so 227K is probably nothing to worry about in terms of reliability and expected service life.

I wouldn't want to be footing the fuel bill for a petrol Cruiser, but then again you can buy a lot of petrol for the price premium that an equivalent model diesel commands.

[Sprintey]

Daz has made some good points about the older mechanical diesels as well - might as well (seriously) recommend the old, slow 2H in a 60 series. It got us around Oz, towed, went in water to top of grille/bottom of bonnet, did lots of sand dunes, got snowed on up rocky mountains, and never missed a beat. Only problem was starting in cold weather when electric lead to solenoid on starter motor frayed, easy fix when found. Felt like the battery did not have enough power to start it then. The pre-ignition chambers work well. Offroad the 2H manual is great, lots of torque, you can dial it to go slow and smooth over rocky tracks. I did get an injector pump rebuilt and that was expensive compared to petrol motors. When I had petrol 4x4 (3f) I was never in the situation where the extra points/electrics got contaminated or wet with hard 4wd driving so it was reliable. When I was trained for 4wd and remote work for my job, the training emphasised simple diesel engines and manual transmissions (gearing reductions, ability to push start, ability to stall on steep slopes then handbrake while new gear is selected and restarted). Also, with HJ60 while you get absolutely no safety, you do get a manual hand crank for the engine! Recess is in the OEM bumper bar and front lower panel. 10K should get a really nice 60.

That said, I've been fooling around with a carby'd petrol 302 recently, and it happily started after 12 years not running, I can tune the whole thing by hand with a screwdriver and simple tools. I put a little fuel in it, forgot how much, it ran out, so I just topped it up and after 3 cranks it started again. To do that in an old diesel I'd have to bleed the lines. But either is a simple, hands on fix if you are in the middle of nowhere.

Seriously considering going forward to the past...

[XR Martin]

Don't dismiss a Lexus LX.
Cheap, not as likely to be thrashed, better equipped and V8.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Don't dismiss a Lexus LX.
Cheap, not as likely to be thrashed, better equipped and V8.

There's an LX470 around budget for the same price as the 1FZFE 105 series but with 30,000 less on the clock.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's a few Challenger and Triton around in the price range with that mileage, more inclined with the Challenger over the Triton even though they share components - auto and SUV body type.

Looking at VIC and specifically dealerships there's sweet FA available from the rest of the Thailand special manufacturers without a bazillion kilometers on them.

If you are talking about the models with the 4D56 (2.5l) avoid them. They have issues with the blocks corroding and a few other electrical gremlins.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

If you are talking about the models with the 4D56 (2.5l) avoid them. They have issues with the blocks corroding and a few other electrical gremlins.

Its 2011 model and yes its the 4D56HP, well I guess thats an interesting development:

https://loaded4x4.com.au/the-ultimat...-buyers-guide/