VicRoads part privatisation

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

So now I'm more confused than ever. Is Dan Andrews supposed to be a socialist and communist or is he now a capitalist?

I haven't had to do any ownership transfers for 8 years . This is the longest I've ever owned a single vehicle, so haven't had the pleasure of experiencing the new online transfer features. Anything that doesn't need me to line up at Vicroads is a WIN!

I do like the flexibility they now offer for paying rego, quarterly, half yearly or annually.

I wonder how much the company donated to the ALP in return for getting VicRoads licensing/registration

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I wonder how much the company donated to the ALP in return for getting VicRoads licensing/registration

It'll be interesting to see who it is, assuming its been decided. There are a few rumours going around. Any tech companies share price jump unexpectedly late last week?

[ryeman]

Inspired by Jeff Kennett - the king of privatisation.
Boris Johnson has simply corrupted the process.
The Cons complaining about privatising a profitable sector is entertaining but will they be promoting less speeding..........hmmmm

[Wretched]

It can't be any worse than it is right now. Judging by the article, which appears all over of the shop, it looks like it is an IT outsource. If that is the case, well having dealt with government IT depts, it is probably better that someone else manages it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Wretched

It can't be any worse than it is right now. Judging by the article, which appears all over of the shop, it looks like it is an IT outsource. If that is the case, well having dealt with government IT depts, it is probably better that someone else manages it.

Imagine if you ordered a steak at a restaurant.

Except instead of bringing it out you have to get up from the chair and pick it up off the bar with your fingers, its literally just the steak, its slapped on the counter, no sides, no plate, no cutlery, and no wait staff to bring it out to you.

So you ask the question - Where's the ****en plate and cutlery?

Sorry - you didn't ask for a plate, or cutlery, THEY ARE EXTRAS!

NEXT MINUTE YOU'LL ALSO WANT THE NAPKIN FOR FREE!

YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THE WAIT STAFF TOO!

That's the IT industry in a nutshell, you ask for something but they don't sell something as a 'full solution' its a bunch of hodge podge **** and you have to worm your way through everything which is extra this extra that but you didn't ask for this.

Never seen or heard of an IT project that actually went on time or on budget

Australian culture is taking the Government for a ride, and from my experiences with the IT industry they're not overly good at giving a 'full picture' - yes I am aware there is also probably major scope creep that goes on from misunderstanding clients, but still.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Imagine if you ordered a steak at a restaurant.

Except instead of bringing it out you have to get up from the chair and pick it up off the bar with your fingers, its literally just the steak, its slapped on the counter, no sides, no plate, no cutlery, and no wait staff to bring it out to you.

So you ask the question - Where's the ****en plate and cutlery?

Sorry - you didn't ask for a plate, or cutlery, THEY ARE EXTRAS!

NEXT MINUTE YOU'LL ALSO WANT THE NAPKIN FOR FREE!

YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THE WAIT STAFF TOO!

That's the IT industry in a nutshell, you ask for something but they don't sell something as a 'full solution' its a bunch of hodge podge **** and you have to worm your way through everything which is extra this extra that but you didn't ask for this.

Never seen or heard of an IT project that actually went on time or on budget

Australian culture is taking the Government for a ride, and from my experiences with the IT industry they're not overly good at giving a 'full picture' - yes I am aware there is also probably major scope creep that goes on from misunderstanding clients, but still.

Sorry, been in the industry for 20+ years so i know how it works.
You know what you read in the news not what happens in the real world.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Imagine if you ordered a steak at a restaurant.



Except instead of bringing it out you have to get up from the chair and pick it up off the bar with your fingers, its literally just the steak, its slapped on the counter, no sides, no plate, no cutlery, and no wait staff to bring it out to you.



So you ask the question - Where's the ****en plate and cutlery?



Sorry - you didn't ask for a plate, or cutlery, THEY ARE EXTRAS!



NEXT MINUTE YOU'LL ALSO WANT THE NAPKIN FOR FREE!



YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THE WAIT STAFF TOO!



That's the IT industry in a nutshell, you ask for something but they don't sell something as a 'full solution' its a bunch of hodge podge **** and you have to worm your way through everything which is extra this extra that but you didn't ask for this.



Never seen or heard of an IT project that actually went on time or on budget



Australian culture is taking the Government for a ride, and from my experiences with the IT industry they're not overly good at giving a 'full picture' - yes I am aware there is also probably major scope creep that goes on from misunderstanding clients, but still.

Bzzzz. 9/10 times users have no freaken idea what they want or they can't articulate it.

So more like....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Sorry, been in the industry for 20+ years so i know how it works.
You know what you read in the news not what happens in the real world.

No, I have experience on the receiving end of your 'services' with how useless your industry is, we're 6 figures into something which still doesn't work properly

But nice try at deflection

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Bzzzz. 9/10 times users have no freaken idea what they want or they can't articulate it.

So more like....


image

So its the customers problem because you couldn't identify what they needed? Yeah righto

Do you both work for IBM?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No, I have experience on the receiving end of your 'services' with how useless your industry is, we're 6 figures into something which still doesn't work properly

But nice try at deflection



So its the customers problem because you couldn't identify what they needed? Yeah righto

Do you both work for IBM?

Nah, I'm not even technically in IT. I'm the one that has a role on both sides but I definitely do empathise with the IT folks. They are at the pointy end of the stick and have no one else to blame (not often you can tell your "customer" they are wrong).

Its like someone saying they want a car and have the budget for a falcon, then when given a falcon, they ask why it doesn't go like a Ferrari or have features of a Mercedes. Is that better?

[CyberWasp]

Sydney already has Privatised Roads. They are called Tollways.

It is like living in Disney Land, in that you have to pay the price of admission to enter your own suburb every day.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No, I have experience on the receiving end of your 'services' with how useless your industry is, we're 6 figures into something which still doesn't work properly

But nice try at deflection

IBM? LoL

Yes, deflection ah huh, right, not the fact the people who sign off on the contracts including scope of works are then charged with having to change that scope halfway through the project because a new government comes in and changes their mind. Many of these are not "agile" enough to start a particular part again, there are technical roadblocks but also legal ones. By the time the new one is signed either the project is disbanded, another change in personnel or the vendor simply had enough and couldn't justify the loss making on the project. Adding to that, many of these projects are never before done, so halfway through it they either have to change a direction or add scope. Both add time and cost.

IT projects are expensive, but many of the failures are as a result of poor customer management. Like I clearly stated before, you're only ever aware of the unsuccessful projects that make the news, there are projects ongoing that are successful and quite large but never make the news because people won't care. But do go on and tell me how stuff works.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm completely against privatisation of VicRoads but I guess now there's focus on selling our asses to China to fund infrastructure projects (see 'Belt and Road') they have to raise the funds to pay for it another way and that's selling off whatever we own that's left at discount rates.

What's next? Royal Melbourne Hospital? We could sell it to some American corporate healthcare group for $26

Seems to me Labour and the Liberals are exactly the same now.
Get into power and start selling off all your assets, leave after 11 years with nice large payout and take up a nice cushy private sector consultancy retirement job.
I know who the real mugs are.......us.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Imagine if you ordered a steak at a restaurant.

Except instead of bringing it out you have to get up from the chair and pick it up off the bar with your fingers, its literally just the steak, its slapped on the counter, no sides, no plate, no cutlery, and no wait staff to bring it out to you.

So you ask the question - Where's the ****en plate and cutlery?

Sorry - you didn't ask for a plate, or cutlery, THEY ARE EXTRAS!

NEXT MINUTE YOU'LL ALSO WANT THE NAPKIN FOR FREE!

YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THE WAIT STAFF TOO!

That's the IT industry in a nutshell, you ask for something but they don't sell something as a 'full solution' its a bunch of hodge podge **** and you have to worm your way through everything which is extra this extra that but you didn't ask for this.

Never seen or heard of an IT project that actually went on time or on budget

Australian culture is taking the Government for a ride, and from my experiences with the IT industry they're not overly good at giving a 'full picture' - yes I am aware there is also probably major scope creep that goes on from misunderstanding clients, but still.

Does setting up your wife's new iPhone when she cannot remember her backup password count as an IT project? As I completed it under budget and on time....then again budget forecast was $0 so maybe I was on budget...

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Does setting up your wife's new iPhone when she cannot remember her backup password count as an IT project? As I completed it under budget and on time....then again budget forecast was $0 so maybe I was on budget...

You could have applied for a large research grant first before the sucessful attempt.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Does setting up your wife's new iPhone when she cannot remember her backup password count as an IT project? As I completed it under budget and on time....then again budget forecast was $0 so maybe I was on budget...

There May well be be a "Fringe benefit" (& tax) or 2, down the track..in that curcumstance....

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Sorry, been in the industry for 20+ years so i know how it works.
You know what you read in the news not what happens in the real world.

Government’s track record with IT stuffups ain’t that rosy??
Just a few....
MyKi,
Centrelink Data Matching System (Robo Debt),
2016 Census,
BIS (biometric identification system),
NAPLAN
PLUTO (child services payments)
EPAS (Sth Aust. Hospitals)
Australian apprentice management system
Gov.Au restructure...

I’m sure the list could go on forever?
The $$$$$’s wasted is obscene!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Seems to me Labour and the Liberals are exactly the same now.
Get into power and start selling off all your assets, leave after 11 years with nice large payout and take up a nice cushy private sector consultancy retirement job.
I know who the real mugs are.......us.

Elect me as your dictator, I'll get this **** show sorted real quick

Infrastructure and services are a joke in Australia for a first world country that's wealthy and with a small population.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Does setting up your wife's new iPhone when she cannot remember her backup password count as an IT project? As I completed it under budget and on time....then again budget forecast was $0 so maybe I was on budget...

Wait for the unlimited lifetime support warranty claims.

[Citroënbender]

Lack of ongoing firmware support would be of greater concern.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Elect me as your dictator, I'll get this **** show sorted real quick

Infrastructure and services are a joke in Australia for a first world country that's wealthy and with a small population.

Some could also argue that a small population spread across large land mass can present a problem.

Are we really that bad though? Who are you comparing to? Having lived in a few different parts of the world, I think overall we are do bloody OK. As always there is always room to do better. Thank our lucky stars we are talking about Vicroads...... and not hospitals, healthcare or education.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Government’s track record with IT stuffups ain’t that rosy??
Just a few....
MyKi,
Centrelink Data Matching System (Robo Debt),
2016 Census,
BIS (biometric identification system),
NAPLAN
PLUTO (child services payments)
EPAS (Sth Aust. Hospitals)
Australian apprentice management system
Gov.Au restructure...

I’m sure the list could go on forever?
The $$$$$’s wasted is obscene!

There are State Gov and Fed Gov stuff ups here.

Just before someone blames Andrews for the Robodept!! Lol

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Some could also argue that a small population spread across large land mass can present a problem.

Are we really that bad though? Who are you comparing to? Having lived in a few different parts of the world, I think overall we are do bloody OK. As always there is always room to do better. Thank our lucky stars we are talking about Vicroads...... and not hospitals, healthcare or education.

40% of our entire population lives in Melbourne and Sydney - imagine if Los Angeles and New York had 40% of the US' population, they'd have 70M people each.

Was working out of Keysborough yesterday, because of a stack on the Monash Freeway last night it took me 3 hours 10 minutes to get home after the freeway was funnelled into the surrounding suburbs of Mount Waverley, Oakleigh East and Chadstone, just because one person somehow managed to roll their car between Huntingdale Road and Warragul Road.

It literally took over 2 hours to go through those three neighbouring suburbs and jump back on the freeway.

That's for a freeway I have to pay to use, that's constantly jammed up because of accidents or just through the sheer amount of traffic on Melbourne's roads.

In my eyes the debacle of commuting North to South East or West to East around Melbourne because of its lack of infrastructure isn't really acceptable.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

40% of our entire population lives in Melbourne and Sydney - imagine if Los Angeles and New York had 40% of the US' population, they'd have 70M people each.

Was working out of Keysborough yesterday, because of a stack on the Monash Freeway last night it took me 3 hours 10 minutes to get home after the freeway was funnelled into the surrounding suburbs of Mount Waverley, Oakleigh East and Chadstone, just because one person somehow managed to roll their car between Huntingdale Road and Warragul Road.

It literally took over 2 hours to go through those three neighbouring suburbs and jump back on the freeway.

That's for a freeway I have to pay to use, that's constantly jammed up because of accidents or just through the sheer amount of traffic on Melbourne's roads.

In my eyes the debacle of commuting North to South East or West to East around Melbourne because of its lack of infrastructure isn't really acceptable.

Percentage is just one aspect, absolute number is another. We just don't currently have enough tax payers and users to fund mega projects for decent ROI. We could use investors...but oh, we don't like the those types of investors that actually want to invest here now do we? Economists are already crapping themselves because the population increase they were banking on for the next couple of decades doesn't look like it will be met. So what's the solution? Borrow? Outsource? Privatise? But we hate all those ideas too.

Also, building large infra requires a lot of guts in this political climate. Gone are the days where gov plan 10-30 years ahead.

We haven't even seen any details of the Vicroads proposal and already the idea has been trashed. I still want to see what benefits it brings, and I don't mind paying a bit extra on fees if its worth it. Just like I don't mind paying the small handling fee for being able to renew my rego on a quarterly basis. Nothing comes for free.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Percentage is just one aspect, absolute number is another. We just don't currently have enough tax payers and users to fund mega projects for decent ROI. We could use investors...but oh, we don't like the those types of investors that actually want to invest here now do we? Economists are already crapping themselves because the population increase they were banking on for the next couple of decades doesn't look like it will be met. So what's the solution? Borrow? Outsource? Privatise? But we hate all those ideas too.

Also, building large infra requires a lot of guts in this political climate. Gone are the days where gov plan 10-30 years ahead.

We haven't even seen any details of the Vicroads proposal and already the idea has been trashed. I still want to see what benefits it brings, and I don't mind paying a bit extra on fees if its worth it. Just like I don't mind paying the small handling fee for being able to renew my rego on a quarterly basis. Nothing comes for free.

Since when was ROI a factor in infrastructure/services projects? If ROI is the be all and end all then let's **** off government backed healthcare and education and privatise it, no money then no healthcare or education. We can get rid of the PBS too and you can pay big pharma market rates for your meds and if you can't afford it then tough titties.

We don't have enough tax payers to build some roads around one of our most populous capital cities but we can throw HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS on welfare during COVID19 and incentives on the construction/housing market and completely trashing our economy?

Yeah righto mate, there's just no political will, it's easier to extend the contract on CityLink for another couple decades and have Transurban bankroll infrastructure while everyone in Melbourne gets screwed for another few decades paying billions a year in tolls commuting to work on a 'freeway' they pay for that you average 30km/h on during our 'peak hour' that actually goes for 6 hours.

The VIC Government nearly 30 years ago didn't want to borrow the $4B to upgrade the Tullamarine Freeway and they decided to go begging to a private company selling three of our major arterial freeways, this is why we are in the situation we're in now with 5 million Melbournians trying to commute across a city with infrastructure designed for 1.5M people - that we have to pay through the *** for to sit in traffic jams.

If you want to talk about financials/ROI - what's the productivity cost on having people sit in traffic for hours to sit in an office to do work they could do from home?

[Citroënbender]

These projects could have “late pizza rule” applied to them; if it’s not supplied in the allocated timeframe, the price is adjusted down.

The opposite - pizza delivery along PPP engagement rules - is almost unthinkable!

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If you want to talk about financials/ROI - what's the productivity cost on having people sit in traffic for hours to sit in an office to do work they could do from home?

Sounds like you are still a bit raw from your detour May I suggest you use google map's re-route feature next time. You were in my neck of the woods, and there are plenty of ways to get back up north that doesn't take 3 hours I do feel your pain, Keysborough is a PIA bottle neck. Had to do the trip to Campbellfield the day before your detour, told the boss I'll be "out of office" for a couple of hours, ended up taking a 3 hour return trip. It would be great if we had something equivalent of a UK's M25, but who is going to have the guts to do it?

Lost productivity cost? Well that's the line I'm using to justify to my boss to work from home permanently. If successful, that will be one less car you have to worry about on the eastern fwy in peak hour

Here, have a read of this. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...23-p54mja.html

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Sounds like you are still a bit raw from your detour May I suggest you use google map's re-route feature next time. You were in my neck of the woods, and there are plenty of ways to get back up north that doesn't take 3 hours I do feel your pain, Keysborough is a PIA bottle neck. Had to do the trip to Campbellfield the day before your detour, told the boss I'll be "out of office" for a couple of hours, ended up taking a 3 hour return trip. It would be great if we had something equivalent of a UK's M25, but who is going to have the guts to do it?

Lost productivity cost? Well that's the line I'm using to justify to my boss to work from home permanently. If successful, that will be one less car you have to worry about on the eastern fwy in peak hour

Here, have a read of this. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...23-p54mja.html

I live in central VIC and that was with Google Maps and it's redirect feature

On a good run I can get to Keysborough in 1 hour 20 mins, door to door there are literally only three traffic lights.

It's not that trip that's a sore point but many a times it's taken 45 minutes to go from Essendon DFO/Bulla Rd to Flemington Road exit - that's like 10km tops.

Trying to cross Melbourne is an absolute nightmare, I imagine Sydney is similar if not worse.

[T3rminator]

I need to correct myself. Greensborough is the problem area, not Keysborough. Central Vic to Keysborough is a fair trip!

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I live in central VIC
.

You sure you know where central Victoria is, Franco ?