AdBlue Shortage

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

This is where Australia at large discovers the reality of how letting production capacity leave for cheaper offshore sources can come back to bite us.

The irony is Urea needs natural gas to produce it, something we now sit as the largest exporter in the world...however domestically gas prices are so high the last major producer of Urea in Oz, Incitec-Pivot, announced a while back it was going to close the Gibson Island, QLD plant due to gas prices....wonder if a sustained high price for Urea and AdBlue reverses that decision?

And frankly why does Australia never seem to put in place a requirement of local supply being protected INCLUDING price as a condition of granting mining rights and export licenses. If Qatar can raise $27Billion in royalties from it's sales how come we just reach $1Billion and get the double whammy of yet high domestic prices?

Or this:
Ichthys LNG project (off the coast of north-west WA) will export a whopping $195 billion of LNG, LPG and condensate out of Darwin over the next three decades, but would not pay a cent in royalties to the federal government – in its lifetime.
Royalities need to be paid on production volume and not profit generated because any 1st year accounting grad can minimise profit/tax by debt loading a local division which "borrows" hug amounts from it's international parent and pay's off the loan interest instead of the Aust. government.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/20...boom/100610750

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

This is where Australia at large discovers the reality of how letting production capacity leave for cheaper offshore sources can come back to bite us.

Doesn't really matter because Australia can't afford to buy what it produces.

If we produced it for the same cost as it's offshore competition then there'd be a market. But that's not how it works here.

[T3rminator]

Ok i'll ask the dumb question. Urea is the main ingredient that will cause the shortage.

What then is the difference between the urea in Adblue and the urea that you can make at home?

Is this why gov hasn't hit the panic button yet? cos there are alternatives?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Ok i'll ask the dumb question. Urea is the main ingredient that will cause the shortage.

What then is the difference between the urea in Adblue and the urea that you can make at home?

Is this why gov hasn't hit the panic button yet? cos there are alternatives?

Concentration and Purity....urine typically contains less that 10% urea, Adblue is 32.5% Urea.....so that's a lot of pi55 that is needed and then purified down...and you still need to collect it from all of us...I have visions of driving in to a servo, making your #1 deposit at the "collection point", do they pay you for your golden trickle, then buying your fuel and some snacks from the servo counter and driving off...

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Ok i'll ask the dumb question. Urea is the main ingredient that will cause the shortage.

What then is the difference between the urea in Adblue and the urea that you can make at home?

Is this why gov hasn't hit the panic button yet? cos there are alternatives?

Adblue has Distilled Water in It ,Plus a couple of Things to keep the Urea soluble & not settle to the Bottom..
The vehicles also have sensors that can detect if the Adblue has been watered Down or had some garden urea thrown Into the Tank..

[b0son]

I can see the market for Adblue emulators going through the roof....

[burnz]

on most SCR, just pull the fuse!!

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by kevino

Franco

thats so unfair.
Driver shortage pushing up wages -cost increase.
Decreased productivity due traffic congestion -cost increase
Fuel price increases-cost increase

Ad blue unavailability will probably bring Aus to its knees half the trucks need it.
However NZ produces urea so Scotty may have to pressure jacinda.

Jacinda should say yep all you need along with your 501,s back

[kevino]

The 501, s are just returning Kiwis who can in cases add to the local colour ful activities of Mongrel Mob and Black Power.

Seriously though kapuni produces urea does it not. Does Nz produce its own ad blue.

[Wretched]

We do manufacture it here in Australia. Probably not to the capacity required by all but I guess freight transport will be the priority.

https://ausblue.com.au/
http://www.ablueaustralia.com.au/
https://www.bioblue.com.au/

[PooDog]

Looks like Balance agri nutrients are the main manufacturers of ad blue in nz I get my pasture Urea from. them and there's been approximately 6 price rises in the last 2 months ....so it's going to have some price rises

As for the 501 s most of them have lived in Oz most of their lives since toddlers its like dumping your rubbish over the fence of your neighbour's because it's too hard to deal with it yourself Mr Morrison

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by hayseed

The vehicles also have sensors that can detect if the Adblue has been watered Down or had some garden urea thrown Into the Tank..

Guy on the radio said that you can trick the system by adding water to the tank rather than AdBlue.

It stops the vehicle running in limp mode.

So I guess some vehicles simple have a sensor that detects if 'something' is in the tank?

I was also wondering if it can be watered down a little to extend what people already have?

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Guy on the radio said that you can trick the system by adding water to the tank rather than AdBlue.

It stops the vehicle running in limp mode.

So I guess some vehicles simple have a sensor that detects if 'something' is in the tank?

I was also wondering if it can be watered down a little to extend what people already have?

A bit of a myth I think. The N0x sensor will pick up the after treatment system isn't doing its thing by reducing N0x emissions and go into limp mode - injecting water into the exhaust will not reduce the N0x coming out of the exhaust, it will likely evaporate before it leaves the injector.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by smoo

A bit of a myth I think. The N0x sensor will pick up the after treatment system isn't doing its thing by reducing N0x emissions and go into limp mode - injecting water into the exhaust will not reduce the N0x coming out of the exhaust, it will likely evaporate before it leaves the injector.

Yes, he did say that it does nothing for the environment, just allows the vehicles to run as normal.

But then again, if there are sensors that can actually tell the difference it won't work.

[Franco Cozzo]

Good time to remove DPF, remap and disable EGR, SCR and a little more fuel and a few extra pounds of boost - what DEF crisis

[Franco Cozzo]

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...lies-australia

Make sure you stock up on bog roll and pasta, don't worry about fuel

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Yes, he did say that it does nothing for the environment, just allows the vehicles to run as normal.

But then again, if there are sensors that can actually tell the difference it won't work.

It shouldn't run as normal. The volume of Adblue injected to reduce NOx each injection cycle will be reduced as it's diluted with water, meaning the required NOx level wont been achieved, so it will throw a fault and de rate.
It's the same as if the delivery line or injection nozzle was blocked, restricting flow, or there is a significant exhaust leak between the nozzle and SCR catalyst, allowing adblue to leak out or not atomise properly.

On the heavy stuff a NOx de rate will not clear unless the fault is fixed and a manual 'reset' is done via service software - usually running the exhaust temp up to 400 degrees to trigger dosage which is nearly impossible on a engine with no real load, like a bob tail prime mover. Or updating ECM calibration which is limited to OEM.
Unsure if LVs are the same. If they are, old mate could be leading some owners down an expensive path by encouraging them to fill the tanks with water

[Franco Cozzo]

Local servo is completely out of AdBlue, they haven't updated pricing as of yet but we suspect price increase on replenishment if they get any

[Bossxr8]

The government is now suggesting switching off the urea systems on trucks as a last resort, if it comes to that. Environmentalists are already talking deaths, global warming and all the other scare tactic bull**** these deadbeats use to drum up fake drama.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/emissi...blue-shortage/


The Federal Government is considering allowing emissions-reducing technology in some diesel trucks to be switched off – if supply of AdBlue in Australia isn’t secured within weeks.

However, insiders involved in the discussions have told Drive switching off emissions-reducing technology is a "last resort,” and only one of several options under consideration.

The proposal has been strongly criticised by health and environment experts – as well as some groups within the trucking industry.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The government is now suggesting switching off the urea systems on trucks as a last resort, if it comes to that. Environmentalists are already talking deaths, global warming and all the other scare tactic bull**** these deadbeats use to drum up fake drama.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/emissi...blue-shortage/


The Federal Government is considering allowing emissions-reducing technology in some diesel trucks to be switched off – if supply of AdBlue in Australia isn’t secured within weeks.

However, insiders involved in the discussions have told Drive switching off emissions-reducing technology is a "last resort,” and only one of several options under consideration.

The proposal has been strongly criticised by health and environment experts – as well as some groups within the trucking industry.

No way in hell would an OEM even entertain that idea after what happened to VW in their dieselgate scandal, it opens them up to legal action

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No way in hell would an OEM even entertain that idea after what happened to VW in their dieselgate scandal, it opens them up to legal action

From who though? It would be a government body doing the investigating, so if the government are the ones saying it's ok, then what?

[Seasoned One]

ADBLU 229.9 in Brissy this morning, at a bbq on weekend and people who do 10k a year in there cars already saying they have stocked up 20 litres "just in case"

So just like the toilet roll debacle, we'll all rush out and stock up on what we wont need for 12 months, so those who do need it can't get it.
I can see these people whining about not having the goods they want because of transport shortages, but at least they'll be able to drive around and look for it for a couple of years

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

From who though? It would be a government body doing the investigating, so if the government are the ones saying it's ok, then what?

Nah it'll be some ****ing Greenies group doing a class law action through some ambulance chaser law firm

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by smoo

On the heavy stuff a NOx de rate will not clear unless the fault is fixed and a manual 'reset' is done via service software - usually running the exhaust temp up to 400 degrees to trigger dosage which is nearly impossible on a engine with no real load, like a bob tail prime mover. Or updating ECM calibration which is limited to OEM.

Do the OEMs have maps for countries where additive is not available or unreliable, or not used? You’d think they might be the place to ask; Government efforts would give us an AdBlue delete with all the tech efficiency of CovidSafe.

[rare ss]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

No way in hell would an OEM even entertain that idea after what happened to VW in their dieselgate scandal, it opens them up to legal action

We used to d/c the SCR systems on our trucks that were running around the minesite (no road rego) this was done at the dealer level

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Do the OEMs have maps for countries where additive is not available or unreliable, or not used? You’d think they might be the place to ask; Government efforts would give us an AdBlue delete with all the tech efficiency of CovidSafe.

Not too sure, but just had a look at Volvo and Scania ZA website and it appears they offer their new trucks in Euro 3 spec which is no emission control.

The likes of Cummins for road transport most popular engine came out with Adblue was nearly a new engine - common rail as opposed to mechanical style injection, so no using an old map. But I put a link up on the previous page about the yanks facing a shortage of NOx sensors for these engines this year, so Cummins with the approval of the EPA have uploaded temp ECM calibrations to trucks effected by the shortage of sensors to keep them going/save owner operators going broke. I can't see why the same cannot or will not happen here...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by rare ss

We used to d/c the SCR systems on our trucks that were running around the minesite (no road rego) this was done at the dealer level

euro it's softwear, cummins cat detroit pull fuse..

on another note, Australia has adblue made here (urea) for farming and food additive..

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by burnz

euro it's softwear, cummins cat detroit pull fuse..

on another note, Australia has adblue made here (urea) for farming and food additive..

Hhhmmmmm , Name Me one Model of CAT Truck Engine that uses Adblue/DEF Please..??

[rare ss]

Some of the new CAT earthmoving gear run SCR, and it's hard wired, need to remove the system and reflash the ECM, we had an imported 992K with AdBlue!

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by rare ss

Some of the new CAT earthmoving gear run SCR, and it's hard wired, need to remove the system and reflash the ECM, we had an imported 992K with AdBlue!

Still a loooong Way from Just pulling the Fuse Like Einsti Burnz Reckons