New Fines and Government Big Mouths

[AUIII]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

Here is some interesting news I stumbled upon this morn:

I have mixed feeling about this new fine/law

and this - I think this is a bit of an overstatement

An article in the courier mail today attached to the story on double demerit points, blamed the internet for an increase in hotted up cars in QLD.

It said young people were given advice on turning family cars into rockets by performing simple inexpensive modifications shared by car enthusiast on internet sites.

I’m yet to come across simple inexpensive modifications to turn my car into a rocket.

I don’t know about other car sites, but I have never been encouraged to race through suburban streets at 40km over the limit with my new mods from this site.

[ltd]

One of the biggest contributing factors to our the road toll is the p1ss poor condition of our roads. The Road Tax Authority have been pushing the speed kills barrow, I for one push the "incompetant ministers and corrupt governments kill".

If they had of bothered to resurface the roads, widen the roads, and not get into toll contracts for dual lane roads then maybe we could have avoided so many deaths thus far. For example, at Frederick street in Ashfield NSW, the surface is so full of holdes and bumps that at the speed limit of 60 kmh in two places I get air in my van. Mind you, I am not breaking the law, I am doing the speed limit but thanks to the local and state government in fighting there has been no work done on this major road in years.

I have not reported it to anyone though because the only response from the RTA would be to make the speed limit 40. And therein lies the problem. Instead of doing what is necessary to make things work, public utilities are not maintained rather more conditions placed on them. Like the trains. Can't make em run on time? Reduce how many services there are and then make within twenty minutes of scheduled arrival time technically on time. It's bullsh1t. Absolute bullsh1t.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by ltd

One of the biggest contributing factors to our the road toll is the p1ss poor condition of our roads. The Road Tax Authority have been pushing the speed kills barrow, I for one push the "incompetant ministers and corrupt governments kill".

If they had of bothered to resurface the roads, widen the roads, and not get into toll contracts for dual lane roads then maybe we could have avoided so many deaths thus far. For example, at Frederick street in Ashfield NSW, the surface is so full of holdes and bumps that at the speed limit of 60 kmh in two places I get air in my van. Mind you, I am not breaking the law, I am doing the speed limit but thanks to the local and state government in fighting there has been no work done on this major road in years.

I have not reported it to anyone though because the only response from the RTA would be to make the speed limit 40. And therein lies the problem. Instead of doing what is necessary to make things work, public utilities are not maintained rather more conditions placed on them. Like the trains. Can't make em run on time? Reduce how many services there are and then make within twenty minutes of scheduled arrival time technically on time. It's bullsh1t. Absolute bullsh1t.

I am in total agreeance with this..... From my experience of road conditions around this country, NT is best. VIC seems OK for the most part, NSW has stark contrasts, goes from really good to bl00dy awful. QLD is all cr8p. It has been years since I have been to TAS and WA so I wont coment.

NT has no demerit point system in place. Much easier to hang on to your license here.

[AWD Chaser]

hahah just passed 2 speed traps within 300meters of eachother.

If you did get caught speeding, it's only one fine I think.... or maybe thats how the're doing ppl on the double demerit ponts - lol

Taxi drivers and couriors have nothing to worry about as they shouldn't be speeding anyway.

It's just a matter of time before they bring in tripe demerit points - wonder how many ppl will be doing under the limit then?


Would anyone agree that distraction causes speeding? We all know it causes you to swerve and not concentrate as well, but speed?

New drivers are not taught that the speed limit is a "limit" and does not actually have to be achieved, and to be patient with slower drivers that choose to understand that.

[kyro_02]

does this double demerit points affect people driving in qld that are from another state..? or do you go by your own state demerit points scam(lol)?

[AWD Chaser]

I think it would go by the state you are driving in.. and I think the points are effective as of now.... (correct me if im wrong)

[megsy]

Originally Posted by DJR351

The bit I like is the "Speed was an issue" or "Speed Kills"..... no..... it's the sudden stop that kills!
If a car is moving, as little as 40kph, and it hits somthing.... speed was a "factor" in that crash.
Did it cause the crash.... may be, may be not!

damn good point here, you can call speed a factor in any accident as long as at least one object was moving, regardless of what object or the speed it was travelling, most of the time there is another explaination for the accident.

[Scott]

IMO, the whole "speed related"catch phrase is b u l l s h i t personified. Speed is a factor in every road accident/incident. Example - no movement, no accidents. Major killer & cause of accidents must surely be complacency and cluster f$$ks. I would have to guess that only a poofteenth of accidents occur solely due to speed. Speed is simply the easiest thing to build hype around and is also the easiest thing to raise revenue from.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Lowndes2b1

And just for the record, I have a BA GT MKII, and they are just as much fun to drive when doing the speed limit.

: Take it out on a track.

[chief]

At the AFD at Wagga last year what was the general comment made by the Victorians coming into NSW. How crap our roads are. Something to ponder over.

Its like the argument wear guns dont kill people, people kill people. Same with drivers. Cars dont kill people, drivers kill people. We should invest more in driver training.

[AWD Chaser]

true..

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by AUIII

I’m yet to come across simple inexpensive modifications to turn my car into a rocket.

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/

[jmc-007]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Sure, and many rural roads should be returned to gravel, the nation should not have to keep these up to standard. Arguments both ways.

That said, 'roads' are simply not the great political issue often made out to be, they have to compete with all other government portfolios.

Don't like how things are run *in your state* DON'T vote for em next time.

Dont crap on about keeping roads upto standard. what standard we have far more ИИИИ roads in this country than even pakistan. Seriously.

Give the motorist a break and fix these idiots in canberra.


One example. at Ourimbah.

Speed camera in a 60/40 zone out the front of the school ON A MAIN ROAD.

the road needs to be fixed yet they collect money off it. and i dont see it going to the school or to improve safety.

When we see some money being reinvested from ИИИИups then i will get off my soap box.

[Lowndes2b1]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

: Take it out on a track.

That is a completely different topic.

For those who think this law sucks, go head SPEED, we can't tell you how fast to go, but when things go wrong and your walking because you have lost your licence or you have your car in the panel beaters for repairs because you have crashed, I'll be sure to give you a toot :eclipsee_ .

Question for those people who don't like this law:

The biggest percentage of accidents/deaths happen because of speed.

"What do you think they should do to deter people from speeding??"

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Lowndes2b1

Question for those people who don't like this law:

The biggest percentage of accidents/deaths happen because of speed.

"What do you think they should do to deter people from speeding??"

The biggest percentage of accidents/death don't happen because of speed.
This is the point.
They shouldn't deter people from speading, they should look at the actual cause of the smash, not the way is can be profited off.

[Iphido]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

This sounds like the ranting of someone who got done speeding on their way to work one easter weekend.

Thats a big assumption. Yes I did work during every easter, but now I'm becomming a highschool teacher I won't ever again. So I'm not biased by self interest.

The theory is fairly simple. If you are not speeding, double demerits mean nothing. Therefore to inverse that point - you are basically suggesting you should be allowed to drive wherever you want at whatever speed you want. If that is representative of your driving attitude then i'd be happy to see you lose your licence.

Why wear seat belts, if you don't speed or dose off you won't crash. Why have a point system at all? Why not just arrest people for traffic offences and put them in gaol where they belong, terrible law breakers. Is this what your suggesting?

I am suggesting that politicans are pulling the wool over the voters eyes. You have 12 points except on Friday saturday sunday and every full moon where you have 6 points.

Its like the 40 zone all over again. Its 40 on school days, which are completely random. Are pupil free days school days? What about private schools with diffrent days? Whats the time. Whats the speed? Oh crap a kid just jumped out while I was checking my calender.

The RTA acknowledges the flaws so now we are getting flashing lights for 40 zones. Which is what they should have done in the first place to warn drivers of school children and their stupid parents. It makes it clear that there are hazards ahead, in the same way road works must be clearly marked. If they went about it the right way, they would have had the support of everyone. Instead they implimented it like a totalitarian dictatorship that was responding to the whim of idiots. Lower speed limits and then throw a couple of speed cameras on it. Oh look, extra Tax.

And no, I've never been caught by a speed camera.

They want people to stop speeding. Why is that so hard to understand?!?!?

I understand the stop speeding argument. You don't seem to see the incompetence. You should travel and see how things are in diffrent countries and in diffrent systems. Don't you want to save lives? Don't you want to do it the best way possible saving money, lives, time, improving traffic flow and making sense.

Or do you just buy the properganda any idiot starts selling. Do you really think we should run our country by knee-jerk reactions and nasty band aid solutions? That arrive in a wrapper of care but are actually political stunts aimed at short term poll point improvement.

Your final comment regarding developing countries in africa is verging on insulting - to those nations and to ours.

Your right. Egypt has roads that far exceed ours. Nice wide roads, many are 3 lanes each way and divided even in outer urban areas. They are smoother and in far better condition than ours. The gutters are even clearly marked.

Im typing up a offical letter of apology. I dare I compare the masterful road network they have, to our disorganised, under maintained, under designed and insulting goatnetwork.

[Lowndes2b1]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

The biggest percentage of accidents/death don't happen because of speed.
This is the point.
They shouldn't deter people from speading, they should look at the actual cause of the smash, not the way is can be profited off.

If you think speed doesn't kill, I'd be interested to read what you think the causes are??

A lot of the accidents I have seen in the media now and the past have all had speed as the cause. Well you could argue that it is the sudden stopping that causes the sudden impact.

So I agree to disagree, IMO Speed does kill.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Lowndes2b1

If you think speed doesn't kill, I'd be interested to read what you think the causes are??

A lot of the accidents I have seen in the media now and the past have all had speed as the cause. Well you could argue that it is the sudden stopping that causes the sudden impact.

So I agree to disagree, IMO Speed does kill.

If you chose to believe the media, that is your choice.
There is little fact showing that speed cused the accident or death, although it may have contributed but the accident or deth may still have happened if the speed was within the limit.
The media do not show nor do they prove that speed caused the accident. Speed is the easy 'cop out' to blame as the general public will believe it.
From my experience I have not seen a case where Speed caused the accident. However the vehicle was exceeding the limit, it did not cause the accident. So if in fact the car was traveling the posted speed, the occupants would have still died.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Iphido

Your right. Egypt has roads that far exceed ours. Nice wide roads, many are 3 lanes each way and divided even in outer urban areas. They are smoother and in far better condition than ours. The gutters are even clearly marked.

Yes and im sure the people of sudan, ethipoia, niger and somalia all have outstanding transport infrastucture as well.

[Scott]

I firmly believe that speed is a minor "singlular" factor in the cause of accidents. Like I said before, complacency is our #1 killer - BAR NONE. People who pull on their seatbelt, sit 10k's below the limit and "assume" that because they are doing these two things, they have fulfilled their obligation to themselves and other road users are our major killers!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

I firmly believe that speed is a minor "singlular" factor in the cause of accidents. Like I said before, complacency is our #1 killer - BAR NONE. People who pull on their seatbelt, sit 10k's below the limit and "assume" that because they are doing these two things, they have fulfilled their obligation to themselves and other road users are our major killers!

Agreed... but its impossible to legislate against stupidity...

[Outbackjack]

It should be interesting to see who has the largest amount of carnage on their roads. We all know that it is going to happen. I still think that it is a stark contrast to the rest of Australia when the NT has no speed limits on most of its open highways. Yet every other state has speed limits coming out their proverbial. And before I get blasted that we have fewer road users out here, the fact still remains that many territorians will cruise happily along at 120k plus and have no drama's. Surley if speed was such demon, people up here will be killing themselves left right and centre. I think it would be fair to say that the NT will be a death free easter on our roads. I hope that this will be the case for all states and territories. But given all state gov's attitude to driver education, this sadly will not be the case. We need structured and strict diver education. I you cant pass, you dont get your license!!

have a safe easter everyone.

Originally Posted by Envious

This is true, yes. But the reason it is "worse" is because of the volume of traffic on the roads over the long weekend.

dont forget that apart from the extra people on the roads, most of them leave after working all day and hit the highway doing 100km/h when normally they do under 60km/h....

[GT-P BOSS]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

It should be interesting to see who has the largest amount of carnage on their roads. We all know that it is going to happen. I still think that it is a stark contrast to the rest of Australia when the NT has no speed limits on most of its open highways. Yet every other state has speed limits coming out their proverbial. And before I get blasted that we have fewer road users out here, the fact still remains that many territorians will cruise happily along at 120k plus and have no drama's. Surley if speed was such demon, people up here will be killing themselves left right and centre. I think it would be fair to say that the NT will be a death free easter on our roads. I hope that this will be the case for all states and territories. But given all state gov's attitude to driver education, this sadly will not be the case. We need structured and strict diver education. I you cant pass, you dont get your license!!

have a safe easter everyone.

You have hit the money, The biggest problem is education and not the power of the cars, they make it to easy to get your licence. when I got mine the instructor was an absolute joke, I just wanted to rip off his brake pedal and smack it over his head. :hihi:

[Scott]

Originally Posted by devil cv8

dont forget that apart from the extra people on the roads, most of them leave after working all day and hit the highway doing 100km/h when normally they do under 60km/h....

Yep..

[Falchoon]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

It should be interesting to see who has the largest amount of carnage on their roads. We all know that it is going to happen. I still think that it is a stark contrast to the rest of Australia when the NT has no speed limits on most of its open highways. Yet every other state has speed limits coming out their proverbial. And before I get blasted that we have fewer road users out here, the fact still remains that many territorians will cruise happily along at 120k plus and have no drama's. Surley if speed was such demon, people up here will be killing themselves left right and centre. I think it would be fair to say that the NT will be a death free easter on our roads. I hope that this will be the case for all states and territories. But given all state gov's attitude to driver education, this sadly will not be the case. We need structured and strict diver education. I you cant pass, you dont get your license!!

have a safe easter everyone.

Yes, but NT doesn't have the same population as southern states such as NSW and Victoria so that is a good part of the reason for the lower road toll.

I don't agree with the Nazi speeding laws in these states but it's not going to change for the better anytime soon.

Driver education (lack of) is a very important thing that the Govt has put in the too hard/too expensive basket. It is much easier to say speeding is bad and evil and up the fines/demerit points and lower the speed limit and sit back and count the cash which can be used for politicians perks instead of fixing roads or providing a better licencing system. I drive for a living and the number of moron moves I see being pulled by other drivers just amazes me. Most of them are made out of ignorance rather than arrogance but that is not important if it ends in carnage.

[Scott]

As a point of interest though, NT has the worst fatality rate in the country by double it's nearest rival.

Fatalities per 100,000 population (04 ----> 03)

ACT 3.1 . . . . . 3.4
VIC 6.9 . . . . . 6.7
NSW 7.8 . . . . . 8.1
TAS 12.0 . . . . 8.6
SA 9.1 . . . . .10.2
WA 9.0 . . . . . 9.2
NT 17.5 . . . . .26.7

Fatalities has fallen since their high of 30/100,000 in about 1970 to a 2004 7.9/100,000.
NT Transport and Infrastructure Minister Chris Burns said: "it had been shown that excessive speed was not a dominant factor in the Territory's road toll".

Funny that the only state in the country with "open roads"is the only one to admit that speed isn't the "be all and end all" of accidents.

I'm moving.

[Scott]

Found this link:
http://www.roadsense.com.au/

And this one too:

http://www.roadsense.com.au/misleading_data.html



Australian study claims 1.8%.

The only Australian government study that we can find claiming a figure of any relevance is the 1994 "Queensland Government Parliamentary Travelsafe Committee study no 15", headed, “Speed cameras: should they be used in Queensland?”.

It claims that only 1.8% (one point eight) of road crashes are caused "solely" by speed. (That is outside of Brisbane. In Brisbane it is only .08%.)

They still didn't state "above the speed limit", they stated, "solely" by speed so it could still be argued that their 1.8% also includes below the limit "speeding" as well as other causes of crashes.

Their figure may still include police chases, criminal activity and more.

We have Travelsafe study no 15 on file.

[Falchoon]

Another good website that tells it like it is - http://www.speedingisbullИИИИ.com/

(insert bullexcretement instead of bullИИИИ)

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by Lowndes2b1

If you think speed doesn't kill, I'd be interested to read what you think the causes are??

A lot of the accidents I have seen in the media now and the past have all had speed as the cause. Well you could argue that it is the sudden stopping that causes the sudden impact.

So I agree to disagree, IMO Speed does kill.

media is not gospel, media does what is needed to sell papers, its simple really driver error is the cause of accidents, speed is not what caused someone to run a redlight and tbone a car and kill 4, speed dosent cause you to do a U turn in front of an oncoming truck and get T boned, however you may be drink driving and speeding crash and die.... what is the cause? well your error and slow reactions because of drinking and not having the thinking skill of a sober person caused you to crash, speed was just a factor that made it harder/faster but not the direct cause of the accident if you get what im saying.