Burnley Tunnel fire

[Outbackjack]

This is just plain horrible. There is no amount of laws or legislation that could prevent a tragedy like this. Those poor souls were probably just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Whats that old saying.... when your number is up. When I read of things like this I always thank my lucky stars that I live out bush away from the full on daily life of a big city. Not that it is totally without risk out here, but is definately safer than the big smokes. I hope that there are no more deaths from this.

[TZENU]

Puts things in perspective doesn't it? And to think that this morning i was distraught after spotting a new scratch on the XR...
An absolute tragedy

[JC]

This is a tragedy, but why is everyone seemingly blaming the trucky? A truck got a blowout. It appears that he pulled over to fix it. It also appears that a car did not take any notice of what was around them and either run into that truck, or contacted another truck trying to avoid the first one. This then had a knock on effect and caught other vehicles in the ensuing mess. To me, the original truck is not at fault, it is the car/other vehicle that wasn't watching that caused this.

This is speculation, of course; I was not an eye witness to what happened, but my point is that people are quick to blame truckies just because there are a couple of trucks involved in this accident, when in fact it may be the once a week driver that caused this.

[JC]

Here's the latest. Looks like my theory above was kind of correct:
A BROKEN-down semi-trailer is believed to have triggered the fiery crash that killed at least three people in Melbourne's Burnley Tunnel this morning.

At a joint press conference of emergency authorities and Premier Steve Bracks, Police Assistant Commissioner Noel Ashby said the death toll could still rise.

Four cars and three semi-trailers were involved in the crash, with Mr Ashby describing the scene as "catastrophic", after fire engulfed vehicles involved in the accident.

"We don't even know what type of vehicles are involved in one occasion.

"There are vehicles down there that are literally balls of metal.

"It is a very traumatic scene.

Mr Ashby confirmed the horrific chain of events started when one vehicle crashed into the stationary semi-trailer about 9.55am.

Seconds later at least two other vehicles, including another semi-trailer, are believed to have collided with first the truck.

It is understood one and possibly two cars were crushed between the two trucks.

Witnesses said at least two explosions and a fireball followed the first crash, which police said occurred about 1.5km into the 3.6km tunnel.

Sprinklers and exhaust fans were immediately activated to control the fire and suck away potentially toxic smoke, as the evacuation order was given over the tunnel radio and loudspeakers.

Police have confirmed three people are dead, but Mr Ashby said the toll could rise, as investigators attempt to assess the devastation.

Inside the scorched tunnel, what appeared to be a white trade ute was crushed sideways against the tunnel's left wall.

In the right lane a sporty silver Subaru had jacknifed in front of another semi-trailer.

"It will take some time for us to extract details and enter the vehicles," he said.

"We've got three semi-trailers, three heavy vehicles involved that can't be moved simply ."

Victorian Premier Steve Bracks paid his condolences to the families of the victims as he pledged the state coroner would conduct a full investigation.

He also praised the quick and effective response of emergency crews, with the first 45 firefighters on the scene in five minutes, as a well-rehearsed crisis plan was activated.

He said the Burnley tunnel's automatic "deluge system" to control the fire, exhaust smoke and alert drivers of the evacuation via a rebroadcasting system had all worked as plans.

He asked for commuters to be patient, with traffic congestion expected to last well into the Friday afternoon peak period.

About 400 people were evacuated from the tunnel with commuters forced to leave their cars and run from the tunnel on foot.

Many other cars were seen reversing out of the tunnel to avoid the collision, while its understood some fire trucks dodged oncoming traffic to reach the scene.

Hundreds of cars were still in the tunnel, nearly two hours later.

About 1pm today, Mr Ashby said the tunnel would be closed and traffic diversion in place for at least the next 12 hours, prompting fears of massive traffic snarls throughout the day into the evening peak.

Investigators now face the daunting task of assessing possible further deaths in the fireball and crash, and damage to the tunnel.

CityLink spokeswoman Jean Ker Walsh confirmed a vehicle had broken down in the left-hand lane and the accident occurred very quickly, before a CityLink recovery vehicle could respond.

Mr Ashby said police hoped to obtain footage of the incident within 24 hours that would shed more light on what happened.

``We're still at this stage trying to scope if there is even greater loss of life,'' he said.

``It's catastrophic down the tunnel ... it's a major, major incident that has occurred so it will take us some time before we can actually talk about the specifics (of what happened) and ultimately we may have to leave the specifics to the coroner.''

Mr Ashby said the tunnel was expected to remain closed for up to 12 hours while the major collision investigation unit examined the scene and the wreckage was cleared.

Truck driver Ryan Lightfoot, 30, of Dandenong, said there were two explosions before they saw the signal to evacuate.

“There was a huge fireball,” he said.

“I couldn’t see anything because it was just engulfed.”

Mr Lightfoot said it appeared a car had been crushed in the left lane between two other trucks.

This type of accident did not surprise him, he said.

“I drive through here once or twice a day and the speed limit goes from 80 to 60 to 40 and it’s a pain for drivers.”

Mr Lightfoot’s passenger Michael Vond, 21, of Noble Park, said they saw fire and sparks, or some kind of light.

“It was weird,” he said. “And then we were sitting there and bang. Maybe it was a gas cylinder or a gas tank. It was like a bomb went off.”

Some witnesses said the driver of the stopped truck had been changing a tyre.

Police also want to speak to the driver of a white Subaru that was involved in “an altercation” with one of the trucks.

After the rapid-fire sound of collisions followed by the “dull thump” of explosions, Diva Duvarken, 34, of Roxburgh, recalled how he saw “saw smoke and flames ahead of me, in the middle of the tunnel.

“I didn’t have time to get a closer look because we had to evacuate,” a soot-smeared Duvarken said.

On the 3km uphill trek to sunlight and safety, Duvarken joined a pedestrian exodus that survivors described as “surprisingly calm” - a journey where many selflessly helped those unable to move quickly.

Duvarad only just abandoned his vehicle when he spotted a disable woman struggling to exit her car. He helped her into a wheelchair and was soon joined by fellow survivors, who together pushed her through the smoke and fumes to the tunnel’s western end.

Beside them in the gloom, marched numerous women who had packed small children into pushers and strollers to make their escape.

Bill Wishart of Wangaratta was stunned to hear the emergency announcement boom over his radio, and to hear it echo from the public addres system when he rolled down his window.

”The first thing I heard was the announcement,” he said.

“Nobody really knew what was going on. But when we came out we saw smoke billowing from the tunnel.”


Police have closed both the Burnley and Domain tunnels running in and out of the city causing a major traffic snarl.

Emergency crews rushed to the scene with MICA paramedics on-scene.

CityLink spokesman Craig Little said the tunnel’s safety system, including the deluge system, was activated.

The main tunnel was closed to allow for the evacuation of people from the Burnley Tunnel and Transurban’s emergency response plans were immediately activated, he said.

Warren, a motorist, told 3AW he was directly behind the truck before it pulled over.

“All of a sudden I heard this almighty explosion and looked up and thought ‘what the heck was that?’,” he said.

“It was a tyre that had blown out completely. I got a whiff of it straight away.”

Warren said the driver pulled over almost immediately to the left hand lane and put his hazard lights on.

In his rear-view mirror he saw a car approaching very quickly, he said.

John, a motorist, told Southern Cross Broadcasting he was among about 300 other people who walked out of the tunnel, congregating near the entrance.

“I had been sitting there a couple of minutes and the next thing there was an explosion further down in the tunnel and the car shook,” he said.

“About 50 seconds later there was another one. Next thing, we were told to evacuate and leave our keys in the car so I turned around and walked out.”

Gabrielle said it was frightening.

“I knew we were pretty near the middle of the tunnel and I didn’t how we were going to get out. I thought things were going to catch fire around us,” she said.

“(But) we got out. I got my boy out with a pram."

Another driver, Matthew, told 3AW he witnessed cars and emergency services responding to the crash.

“There were cars actually reversing back up the tunnel as I was driving over the top of it," he said.

"I could see a lot of smoke.

Because traffic had been diverted onto King's Way, this area was a nightmare, he said.

Cliff, who was about 300 metres from the tunnel entrance when CityLink made their announcement, said the traffic came to a standstill slowly and in an orderly fashion.

Batham, who told 3AW he was stuck close to the bottom of the Westgate Freeway, said traffic had barely moved and he suggested people exited at Todd or Footscray roads to avoid bank ups.

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by JC

This is a tragedy, but why is everyone seemingly blaming the trucky? A truck got a blowout. It appears that he pulled over to fix it. It also appears that a car did not take any notice of what was around them and either run into that truck, or contacted another truck trying to avoid the first one. This then had a knock on effect and caught other vehicles in the ensuing mess. To me, the original truck is not at fault, it is the car/other vehicle that wasn't watching that caused this.

This is speculation, of course; I was not an eye witness to what happened, but my point is that people are quick to blame truckies just because there are a couple of trucks involved in this accident, when in fact it may be the once a week driver that caused this.

If it was due to a blow out, and was on any other axle other than the steer, then this is totally the truck drivers fault. Thats just my opinion as a driver.

You DO NOT stop in the tunnel, for anything. The decline into the burnley tunnel is steep, and you dont allow or expect to be needing to stop in there, unless the traffic conditions are very heavy, and if thats the case the run into the tunnel is usually well and truly slow enough to give you warning. No tyre/rim is worth stopping for when it creates such a dangerous situation. Unless it's on the steer axle, you'll make it out with nothing more than a trail of chunks of rubber behind you and maybe a few peeved motorists.

To many drivers, the tunnel is a nerve racking, surreal environment that they can't wait to get out the other side of. So a combination of nervous drivers and a situation that required evasive action in an environment that is very unforgiving and leaves no room for error or emergency action to avoid it.

Generally the Transurban staff are very fast to respond to anything not right in the tunnel. Usually within 1 minute at the very most of a breakdown they'll have the lane closed on the overhead signage, the speed reduced to at least 60 if not 40, and the warning lights flashing, as well as if there is time, an audible warning. It's all monitored contantly from a control room and managed to suit the conditions.

[JC]

Originally Posted by schmidty

If it was due to a blow out, and was on any other axle other than the steer, then this is totally the truck drivers fault. Thats just my opinion as a driver.

You DO NOT stop in the tunnel, for anything. The decline into the burnley tunnel is steep, and you dont allow or expect to be needing to stop in there, unless the traffic conditions are very heavy, and if thats the case the run into the tunnel is usually well and truly slow enough to give you warning. No tyre/rim is worth stopping for when it creates such a dangerous situation. Unless it's on the steer axle, you'll make it out with nothing more than a trail of chunks of rubber behind you and maybe a few peeved motorists.

To many drivers, the tunnel is a nerve racking, surreal environment that they can't wait to get out the other side of. So a combination of nervous drivers and a situation that required evasive action in an environment that is very unforgiving and leaves no room for error or emergency action to avoid it.

Generally the Transurban staff are very fast to respond to anything not right in the tunnel. Usually within 1 minute at the very most of a breakdown they'll have the lane closed on the overhead signage, the speed reduced to at least 60 if not 40, and the warning lights flashing, as well as if there is time, an audible warning. It's all monitored contantly from a control room and managed to suit the conditions.

I drove the Burnley tunnel just last week, and know how congested it is. I understand about the not stopping, but given the fact that the driver managed to actually pull over and get his hazards on, shouldn't that have triggered a response from the control room? I still wouldn't go blaming the trucky - the reaction of people around him seems to have left a lot to be desired. If people can't drive, then they shouldn't be on the road. I am also going to guess that the "sporty" subaru sedan had something to do with this mess.

[mark180227]

remind me of this vision

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzx3UG-G43s

R.I.P what a sad sad tradgey

[GT290]

Originally Posted by 2002auxr6

i have always hated this tunnel

Why is that?

[Squalo]

The Subaru is most likely a red herring.

Sounds like the emergency response was on the money - many more could have perished in this sort of incident.

The worst was the Mont Blanc Tunnel disaster:

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/MontBlanc.htm

[GT290]

Originally Posted by mark180227

remind me of this vision

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzx3UG-G43s

R.I.P what a sad sad tradgey

Yeah no different to any other accident on any other road where you have a failure or a case of careless incompetents. As a result inocent people get cought up in it leaving a fatel trail of caos.
RIP to those poor people.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by schmidty

You DO NOT stop in the tunnel, for anything. The decline into the burnley tunnel is steep, and you dont allow or expect to be needing to stop in there, unless the traffic conditions are very heavy, and if thats the case the run into the tunnel is usually well and truly slow enough to give you warning.

Some good reporting in thread here. I will say the quote smacks a little of "speed limit conditioning". Don't take offence to that, but in court it'd be easy to rip apart.

Remember, at law, you are required to drive at a safe speed that enables you to come to a safe, full-stop within the range you can see ahead at all times. Speed limit conditioning removes much of that ability where folk become too speedometer obsessed, or 'drive at the speed-limit' all of the time, when they really should be driving slower for the conditions.

I agree with sentiments regarding Sydney's newish tunnels (M5 and the new M2-Gore Hill section to open after the NSW election) and those of this Melbourne event, they need, like Germany, to MANDATE in design standard that a 3.0metre LEFT lane emergency shoulder be made. Sheer negligence; as this this point has been advocated for years in Australia, advocacy based on the the EU TEMS project/standard. To do so would, or can cost an extra 100 million dollars, but is money well spent, not just for the saving of lives, but to reduce the impact to national productivity when the road network is forced to stop.

Somewhere a few months back here in forum I posted pics/links of a new German autobahn that opened, which included tunnels with wide emergency shoulders (where, if we had them - the truck could have stopped-on).

The warning triangle thing I'll leave for now till coronial outcome, suffice to say, come hell or high water, one unit *will* be mandatory for ALL cars, vans, 4WD's, and three units for trucks weighing less than 12 tonnes GVM, and caravans. So will the requirement to carry in the vehicle and wear, 'safety vests' at breakdown and crash scenes.

Souls RIP.

[Allen]

I was on the Tulla just outside Essendon Airport when I saw plumes of black smoke in the distance... I switched the radio on, just as an emergancy news bulliten started... It was quite surreal...

My thoughts go out to those who lost their lives...

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Some good reporting in thread here. I will say the quote smacks a little of "speed limit conditioning". Don't take offence to that, but in court it'd be easy to rip apart.

Remember, at law, you are required to drive at a safe speed that enables you to come to a safe, full-stop within the range you can see ahead at all times. Speed limit conditioning removes much of that ability where folk become too speedometer obsessed, or 'drive at the speed-limit' when they really should be driving slower.

I agree with sentiments regarding Sydney's newish tunnels (M5 and the new M2-Gore Hill section to open after the NSW election) and those of this Melbourne event, they need, like Germany, to MANDATE in design standard that a 3.0metre LEFT lane emergency shoulder be made. Sheer negligence as this this point has been advocated for years in Australia, advocacy based on the the EU TEMS project/standard. To do so would, or can cost an extra 100 million dollars, but is money well spent, not just for the saving of lives, but to reduce the impact to national productivity.

Somewhere a few months back here in forum I posted pics/links of a new German autobahn that opened, which included tunnels with wide emergency shoulders (where, if we had them - the truck could have stopped on).

The warning triangle thing I'll leave for now till coronial outcome, suffice to say, come hell or high water, one unit *will* be mandatory for ALL cars, vans, 4WD's, and three units for trucks weighing less than 12 tonnes GVM, and caravans. So will the requirement to carry in the vehicle and wear, safety vests at breakdown and crash scenes.

Souls RIP.

Good to hear Keepleft again.

They do close off the left lane when there is congestion, for emergency reasons. Presumably to allow emergency vehicles through, not for situations like this.

Perhaps they will now look at the whole issue with trucks, speed and which lanes they should only be allowed on. Only a couple of weeks back a semi on the Tullamarine freeway cleaned up the concrete centre dividers and light poles after the driver claimed he had a sneezing fit.

People should remember it does take a lot longer for a large heavy truck to pull up, so why do some truckies persist in tailgating, especially in the tunnel and adjoining freeways? For the same reason, cars should leave a lot of space in front of trucks when they change lanes.

Hopefully commonsense will prevail when they do look into preventing future occurences, and not just a kneejerk reaction or "tunnel vision" measures (ie. speed cameras) as they normally implement. Bet that wont happen however.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by mark180227

remind me of this vision

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzx3UG-G43s

R.I.P what a sad sad tradgey

Definatley speed combined with stupidity.

[SNB05T]

r.i.p. and condolences to the families of the lost ones. it's a bit like the cars/truck accident on the mooney mooney f3 bridge a couple of years ago. major accident on a friday evening during peak hour blocking the whole north bound side of the freeway.
and because there was little warning/news reports of this, the traffic jam was like trying to drive on parramatta rd (it took me 2hours to get from the truck inspection station to the mt white turn off a 5km trip)

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Remember, at law, you are required to drive at a safe speed that enables you to come to a safe, full-stop within the range you can see ahead at all times. Speed limit conditioning removes much of that ability where folk become too speedometer obsessed, or 'drive at the speed-limit' all of the time, when they really should be driving slower for the conditions.
.

I agree with what you say, but its a huge worry though that this situation exists where people cant make a judgement that driving legally at the speed limit maybe too fast for the current conditions as they present....

[Scott]

Originally Posted by JC

I still wouldn't go blaming the trucky - the reaction of people around him seems to have left a lot to be desired.

Not disputing that you may be right or wrong as none of us have any idea. In response to your thoughts though, the article you posted said that three seperate vehicle's hit the first truck which leads me to think that perhaps it wasn't pulled over in a safe or satisfactory manner. All just speculation at this stage.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I agree with what you say, but its a huge worry though that this situation exists where people cant make a judgement that driving legally at the speed limit maybe too fast for the current conditions as they present....

Thats a real problem with the current mentality of implementing speed limits and enforcing these limits, and the false sense of security which a motorist may then think they have if they travel at that speed limit. Rather than the proper approach where each and every motorist should be held more responsible for the speed they travel at, at any one moment, regardless of the speed limit.

[Scott]

Amen SG.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Squalo

The Subaru is most likely a red herring.

Sounds like the emergency response was on the money - many more could have perished in this sort of incident.

The worst was the Mont Blanc Tunnel disaster:

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/MontBlanc.htm

I remember watching the docu investigation on this accident and although a different situation in that wind conditions at either end of the tunnel were unusual and the semi in Europe caught on fire while driving (from a cigarette butt entering the engine air intake) and it's load, refrigerated butter, actually generated more energy and heat then a similar load of fuel they come to an interesting conclusion. If the driver kept driving, even while on fire, it would actually have limited the fire spread compared to being stationary and that he would have had ample to time to exit and park before injuring himself. Naturally this is in hindsight after a full investigation but I now apply the basic principal, pull over in a clear area, off-lane and don't stop unless you physically loose power or cannot control the vehicle.

Hopefully the results of this accident investigation lead to an education campaign specifically on tunnel driving for all of us to take something positive out of a major tragedy. Condolances to the family/friends of those deceased.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Good to hear Keepleft again.

The rest removed to save space because it’s absolute garbage.

.

What are you, some anti truck campaigner?

Get your head out of the clouds, or from the front of the computer, as your location suggests and get into the real world. Speeding is not the issue in the tunnels, it’s more of a design fault. Do you know how many speed cameras are in this tunnel already?

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Perhaps they will now look at the whole issue with trucks, speed and which lanes they should only be allowed on. Only a couple of weeks back a semi on the Tullamarine freeway cleaned up the concrete centre dividers and light poles after the driver claimed he had a sneezing fit.

a little off topic but this same driver also ploughed through an elderly couple's house a few months back, again claiming a sneezing fit...
he should have his licence removed from his posession...


todays incedent was a major tragedy.....they are still unclear as to how many lives were lost, stating currently 3......

hopefully there are no more!

[Hybrid34]

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au...&mediaid=77643

not much to see, but its something...

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by MADNC_8

a little off topic but this same driver also ploughed through an elderly couple's house a few months back, again claiming a sneezing fit...
he should have his licence removed from his posession...


todays incedent was a major tragedy.....they are still unclear as to how many lives were lost, stating currently 3......

hopefully there are no more!

I agree that this bloke shouldn’t be on the road, and to my understanding currently isn’t, although it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened today, so why bring it up?

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I agree that this bloke shouldn’t be on the road, and to my understanding currently isn’t, although it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened today, so why bring it up?

well.....silver ghia brought up his last accident, and i was just making an off topic comment about it( i even said, "a little off topic.")

i know it had nothing to do with todays incedent

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Good to hear Keepleft again.

They do close off the left lane when there is congestion, for emergency reasons. Presumably to allow emergency vehicles through, not for situations like this.

Perhaps they will now look at the whole issue with trucks, speed and which lanes they should only be allowed on. Only a couple of weeks back a semi on the Tullamarine freeway cleaned up the concrete centre dividers and light poles after the driver claimed he had a sneezing fit.

I'm not sure if you've read the NSW "Road Users Handbook", the section titled "Driving on the motorway"?? Copied below.

In this, I've had RTA place UN standard, which is in turn German-EU driver training source, 'lane discipline', its text that is compatible with existing ARR's:-

DRIVING ON THE MOTORWAY
<Joinging the motorway snip>. Once on the motorway, stay in the left lane unless overtaking. If there are three lanes and the left lane has many vehicles travelling at a slower speed than you, stay in the middle lane. After you have passed them, you should return to the left lane. The right lane is generally reserved for overtaking so move out of it as soon as it is safe to do so.

For about four to six years now I've submitted at regular times similar text, modified to take into account the periodic rightmost lane 'ETag' and like lanes,- for the VIC ROADS publication; "The Road To Solo Driving".

Lane behaviour in VIC is 'chaotic', and for many reasons and we need to begin to improve on that.

To date, Victorian staff refuse. In NSW, we realised back in the 1990's (myself based on Euro experience in the early 80's) that in relation to freeway/motorway lengths of road bearing three or more lanes, that we needed to spell out that the left lane is just that, 'the left lane', and that the middle lane is NOT the left lane. We also began a Euro engineering lane start treatment to the F3 which starts a new third traffic lane off to the right of an existing two-laned section.

Now, to prevent heavy vehicles from using the right lane, legally used by all traffic, on a three-laned section of freeway in NSW, we post at regular intervals along the road, a sign that reads vis; "TRUCKS MUST USE LEFT TWO LANES".

I'd prefer we adopt the sign "TRUCKS MUST NOT USE RIGHT LANE". (At law, unless all lanes are blocked and the right lane is the only lane moving). I was on the phone to RTA folk one morning highlighting the need to do this 'live', in the same manner as done in Europe in order to always have an open 'valve' for much faster closing traffic. I expect this action to become part of the new UN Convention on Road Traffic now under development.

I will continue in my efforts to have VICROADS include the 'modified' NSW text. To date, QLD has not accepted the text either, done to combat M1 lane behaviour/crash issues. NSW will adjust its own, slightly, shortly, - but its meaning will remain crystal clear!

If we are to raise limits on these types of roads one day, now is the time to get lane discipline tutorials 'right', and inline with UN Convention requirement.

Bit by bit.

[schmidty]

People wish to know why trucks continue to tailgate on this road?

It is law that heavy vehicles keep to a minimum of 50M following distance to the vehicle in front. Drive 1 and see what happens to your 50M gap when you're on a road such as the monash, westgate, tulla, or any congested melbourne rd you wish to name. It is simply seen as a nice open gap for people to jump lanes or push in. Everyone is in a hurry to go no where. So in 1 way or another you end up closer and closer as cars quickly fill the gap in front, or you follow closer to keep from being continuously pushed in on.

[Keepleft]

Schmidty, in all honesty, abrasive speed limits and enforcement are one of the key reasons why people drive so poorly, such as in your example.

Nothing of real value will change until that is dealt with. A reason why NSW *will* revert back to (//) in future years,

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by schmidty

People wish to know why trucks continue to tailgate on this road?

It is law that heavy vehicles keep to a minimum of 50M following distance to the vehicle in front. Drive 1 and see what happens to your 50M gap when you're on a road such as the monash, westgate, tulla, or any congested melbourne rd you wish to name. It is simply seen as a nice open gap for people to jump lanes or push in. Everyone is in a hurry to go no where. So in 1 way or another you end up closer and closer as cars quickly fill the gap in front, or you follow closer to keep from being continuously pushed in on.

This is true, i spent a day riding "shotgun" with a mate in his 40T tipper, he was continually slowing down to re assume his gap because drivers kept pulling into the safety gap... very frustrating for the truck drivers.

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Schmidty, in all honesty, abrasive speed limits and enforcement are one of the key reasons why people drive so poorly.

Nothing of real value will change until that is dealt with. A reason why NSW *will* revert back to (//) in future years,

It will never happen in my lifetime!