Covid 19 -

[russellw]

126 new cases for Australia and 15 deaths sees the CMR rise to 2.603% while active drop to 3,459. NSW recorded 12 cases, Queensland recorded 2 cases with the balance in Victoria.

2 new cases and 0 deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.250% and active cases drop to 115.

The UK had 1,733 new cases and as we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines we are going to ignore those figures.

Just over 41k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,090 deaths sees CMR drop to 3.020% and active cases drop to 40.6% with the raw numbers actually dropping. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass the 26M mark with the last 1M taking 4 days again;
India completes 45M, Russia 37M and Morocco 2M tests;
Asia records a new daily high of 111,783 new cases;
Europe records a new daily high of 36,362 new cases;

Palestine (596), Moldova (632), Czechia (656), Paraguay (800), Nepal (1,228), Israel (2,991), Indonesia (3,622), Iraq (4,755), Spain (8,959), Argentiona (12,026) and India (84,516) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

It's really not that crazy. One of my ex boss was a former AFP officer. He tells me most criminals believe what they do is right and fair. They know its against the law, but in their mind they don't actually think doing it is wrong.

Take the protest tomorrow for example, the organisers, the attendees believe what they are doing is right...even though it is against the "law". Whether you agree with the law is a different matter.

And in case anyone in Melb was thinking whether to attend the protest tomorrow...

Victoria's lockdown protesters told to stay away from Shrine of Remembrance
https://7news.com.au/news/health/sta...rine-c-1286358

“If any individuals or groups choose to express their political views, positions or ideological theories in the grounds of the shrine at any time, they are completely disrespecting the sanctity of this time-honoured space, those men and women of the Australian Defence Force who have lost their lives, and all Victorian veterans.”

Kinda makes me wonder whether the organisers really understand what they are supposedly protesting for. As above, I'm sure they believe what they are going to do is the "right thing".

So in summary:

Government officials attempt to shame anti government protestors who are protesting oppressive government legislation about political protest at a shrine built to remember the fallen who died fighting oppressive foreign governments.

Yeah, sorry that doesn't hold any weight in my eyes.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

So in summary:



Government officials attempt to shame anti government protestors who are protesting oppressive government legislation about political protest at a shrine built to remember the fallen who died fighting oppressive foreign governments.



Yeah, sorry that doesn't hold any weight in my eyes.

"officials from the shrine" are they government? Even if it's public service I'm not sure they would take sides. That's stretching it a bit. They are not saying they are against the protest..... just don't do it there.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

So in summary:

Government officialsA representative of the independent board of trustees quite rightly points out that the shrine is not to be used for political purposes as it is disrespectful. attempt to shame anti government protestors who are protesting oppressive government legislation about political protest at a shrine built to remember the fallen who died fighting oppressive foreign governments.

Amended for accuracy. Research before running off with your own agenda.

Originally Posted by five 7

Had my first mask experience yesterday, we were told to wear one in a office, which we had a couple of hours hard physical work to do, with the sweat plus constantly having to adjust/play around with it it was near useless, and was soaked by the end, picking i got more cr*p in my eyes nose and mouth than if not wearing it, so good luck wearing one in your 40 degree summer. Bonus was no one else in office had a mask on.

As has been mentioned a couple of times, the mask isn't to protect you, it's to protect people from you

[five 7]

Originally Posted by leesa

As has been mentioned a couple of times, the mask isn't to protect you, it's to protect people from you

Love patronizing comments, i wasn't debating the pros and cons of mask safety/use just pointing out what a god awful experience wearing one was, by the way there wasn't much protecting us from them by there lack of mask use they insisted on.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by russellw

Amended for accuracy.
Research before running off with your own agenda.

I wouldn't call the Melbourne mayor 'independent' nor when it receives funding from the Government.

I'm not the one with the vested interest in politically damaging protests not occuring.

Originally Posted by five 7

Love patronizing comments, i wasn't debating the pros and cons of mask safety/use just pointing out what a god awful experience wearing one was, by the way there wasn't much protecting us from them by there lack of mask use they insisted on.

You'd mentioned that it was useless because you got more crap in your eyes, nose and mouth than if you hadn't worn one, which suggested to me that you thought the mask was meant to protect you. I don't think what I said was patronizing at all, just pointing out where I think you went wrong because the mask was never meant to protect you. If you've interpreted that as me somehow feeling superior then there's not much I can do about that unfortunately. Do you take all comments as patronising?

Either way, covid has demonstrated a lot of ugly gaps in society and duty of care. If you go into an office, the office want to protect themselves from you, they don't necessarily care about protecting you from them. So who gets to insist that others wear a mask? Who gets to refuse until the other party complies? That's actually why I wear a mask that filters air on ingress, not egress, we have no control over other people and it's become obvious that most people don't care about the safety of anyone else.

[Tickford.]

All washed and ready for the protest tomorrow...



...unfortunately, it won't look so clean on the way back.

[zilo]

Another win today...tested negative for Covid19 again.

phew...

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Romulus

This arrest is certainly attracting attention, both nationally and internationally. The double standard of the Victorian Police are no longer covert, they're overt. VicPol can manage to arrest of pregnant woman over a facebook post, yet VicPol allowed the BLM protest to go ahead, almost sponsoring it by saying no one would be arrested.

Looks like the pregnant lady will be in good hands, plenty of legal practitioners willing to provide pro-bono representation. It will be interesting to see how this over reaction plays out over the next 24-36 hours. It's political poison for Comrade Dan and his Gestapo law enforcement officers.

An interesting comment from Gillian Dempsey on twitter about this matter

"Incitement" is an INDICTABLE offence in Victoria. It is "subject to this Act" (ie the Crimes Act). There are no indictable offences that the lady who was arrested was accused of. Those offences were summary. There's a legislative mismatch here. Oh dear..http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/vi...l_act/ca195882
CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 321G Incitement

CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 321G

Incitement
(1) Subject to this Act, where a person in Victoria or elsewhere incites any other person to pursue a course of conduct which will involve the commission of an offence by—

(a) the person incited;

(b) the inciter; or

(c) both the inciter and the person incited—

if the inciting is acted on in accordance with the inciter's intention, the inciter is guilty of the indictable offence of incitement .

(2) For a person to be guilty under subsection (1) of incitement the person—

(a) must intend that the offence the subject of the incitement be committed; and

(b) must intend or believe that any fact or circumstance the existence of which is an element of the offence in question will exist at the time when the conduct constituting the offence is to take place.

(3) A person may be guilty under subsection (1) of incitement notwithstanding the existence of facts of which the person is unaware which make commission of the offence in question by the course of conduct incited impossible.

S. 321H inserted by No. 10079 s. 7(2), amended by No. 25/1989 s. 20(g).

Three QCs are rumoured to be supporting the woman who in the words of the fat controller as he peered over his black rimmed spectacles for dramatic effect, "This is a serious criminal offence."

Does the arrest satisfy s321G?

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by five 7

Had my first mask experience yesterday, we were told to wear one in a office, which we had a couple of hours hard physical work to do, with the sweat plus constantly having to adjust/play around with it it was near useless,

Try wearing one for 11+ hours a day, when temperatures are peaking at over 50, and humidity is a constant 100%.
Fortunately my journeys underground are limited to checking and inspecting, but the workers do that for 14 days straight at a time. And they're glad to be wearing the mask because the alternative is gobbing down lungfuls of crap that would suffocate you in a matter of hours.

Nobody ever said that wearing a mask was fun.

I've worked on sites where everybody carried a full-face gas-mask and personal gas-alarm. And we did it without complaint because the alternative was a quick and painful death.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by leesa

Either way, covid has demonstrated a lot of ugly gaps in society and duty of care. If you go into an office, the office want to protect themselves from you, they don't necessarily care about protecting you from them. So who gets to insist that others wear a mask? Who gets to refuse until the other party complies? That's actually why I wear a mask that filters air on ingress, not egress, we have no control over other people and it's become obvious that most people don't care about the safety of anyone else.

I was thinking that a possible solution might be to simply arrest all the stupid people and deport them to Tasmania.
But volume wise, we might have to do the reverse

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by zilo

Another win today...tested negative for Covid19 again.

phew...

image

You must be using the wrong brand test kit!

[MercuryT]

My sister has a new adopted Greyhound that needs attention, company, washing etc.

Yet all shut?

I must be naive as I had no idea a basic but imo important service like that is closed.

Unbelievable.

What is it you actually want, Franco? What's the ideal next action/s on a state and federal level in your opinion?

[Tickford.]

Is it a full moon tonight??

Just asking.


edit: Just had a look outside.. it IS a full moon tonight! That explains a lot.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by leesa

What is it you actually want, Franco? What's the ideal next action/s on a state and federal level in your opinion?

Open state borders, no business restrictions, our implied freedom of speech and our right of assembly, Parliament to actually sit and do its job, Victoria Police to stop acting like the Stasi, at risk groups to take responsibility for their own health to isolate, everyone to be treated like adults and the State Government to stop trying to control everyone's life to the millimeter - I want my Western democratic country back and the countries capital of hospitality/art and culture to be thriving again and with the huge amount of people (mostly youth) who worked these industries back in work.

International borders can stay closed though - maybe open up to NZ and some South Pacific island nations.

If you're going to lock up the state under house arrest and treat us like children at least be a responsible parent - how many of the deaths in Victoria due to COVID19 have been because of government failure with quarantine hotels?

Where the private guards were trained in diversity rather than pandemic response?

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Open state borders, no business restrictions, our implied freedom of speech and our right of assembly, Parliament to actually sit and do its job, Victoria Police to stop acting like the Stasi, at risk groups to take responsibility for their own health to isolate, everyone to be treated like adults and the State Government to stop trying to control everyone's life to the millimeter - I want my Western democratic country back and the countries capital of hospitality/art and culture to be thriving again and with the huge amount of people (mostly youth) who worked these industries back in work.

International borders can stay closed though - maybe open up to NZ and some South Pacific island nations.

If you're going to lock up the state under house arrest and treat us like children at least be a responsible parent - how many of the deaths in Victoria due to COVID19 have been because of government failure with quarantine hotels?

Where the private guards were trained in diversity rather than pandemic response?

So basically you accept that open borders and business will result in increased infections and therefore increased deaths but you consider that as an acceptable cost of the benefits to be had from opening back up? Is that ultimately what you're saying?

And by "State Government to stop trying to control everyone's life to the millimeter" you mean "do nothing even though there's a global pandemic going on", yes?

By the way, there are no "at risk groups". Everyone is at risk, even kids. That should be evident now that we've seen reports of kawasaki disease in covid kids here in australia.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by leesa

So basically you accept that open borders and business will result in increased infections and therefore increased deaths but you consider that as an acceptable cost of the benefits to be had from opening back up? Is that ultimately what you're saying?

And by "State Government to stop trying to control everyone's life to the millimeter" you mean "do nothing even though there's a global pandemic going on", yes?

By the way, there are no "at risk groups". Everyone is at risk, even kids. That should be evident now that we've seen reports of kawasaki disease in covid kids here in australia.

State Government has done a real good job on this one haven't they?

- Massive damage to the economy,
- Victoria doing so badly that its effected national economy
- Hundreds of thousands out of work
- Draconian legislation implemented enforced by a police force all too willing to persecute the very people they're supposed to 'protect'
- Police picking and choosing who they want to enforce the law on
- Restrictions on movement
- If you're lucky enough to still be in work you need 'permits' to go
- Staff reductions by 33% for those still open
- 'Masks' which do nothing are mandatory
- Harshest restrictions implemented
- Worst performing Australian state for COVID-19

Remember last time you tried this and I asked the CMR on under 30s and it was one person who died?

For a state supposedly so intent on protecting everyone they've sure managed to kill a lot of our elderly citizens through their own mismanagement.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

My sister has a new adopted Greyhound that needs attention, company, washing etc.

Yet all shut?

I must be naive as I had no idea a basic but imo important service like that is closed.

Unbelievable.

doesnt sound like a responsible owner if the basics cant be covered in house

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

State Government has done a real good job on this one haven't they?

So you're annoyed at vic gov's covid handling which has resulted in more infections than the other states... but you're also advocating for the state to be totally opened up and business to resume as normal so that we can all get back to rebuilding the economy... even though that's going to result in an increase in what you're criticising the government over?

You might need to explain that one to me because there doesn't appear to be any logic there.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If you're happy to have Pappa Government manage everything about your life then just stay inside at home like a recluse so the rest of us can go about our lives.

Why should I be punished because you're scared you might get struck by lightning in the garden?

Take responsibility for your own health - you don't want to get COVID19 then stay at home.

Because public health measures are the responsibility of everyone.
Or are you also advocating kids be allowed to take nuts to school now because **** everyone else who has an allergy? Why should someone's child be denied because of someone else's allergy? Why should I avoid drinking and driving when you could just stay off the roads if you don't want to risk getting into an accident?
It's not just all about you.

If we find out in the coming years that covid causes major organ damage and reduced life spans in people who even had mild cases, I bet you'll be the first to squawk about how you weren't protected.

[MITCHAY]

In regards to this chick being arrested I think my only sticking point is the cuffs were a bit much. You'd have to know that trying to muster a protest would be against public health orders whether you agree with it or not.

I definitely think there has been an overreaction to it too. It is standard police behaviour. Serve a warrant and seize evidence. No different to anything else.

I don't know if there has been any BLM protests organised for a while but remember everyone raging about how soft the police were too.

So perhaps now they are trying to set a standard and if so I expect it to be applied equally regardless of the cause.

[MITCHAY]

Fully agree that the law should be applied equally. If you can't protest this, than you can't protest that.

[tweeked]

What is with UK's figures - Nearly a month of averaging 1000 cases per day but averaging less than 10 deaths per day???? Do bad teeth protect against the virus or something?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by tweeked

What is with UK's figures - Nearly a month of averaging 1000 cases per day but averaging less than 10 deaths per day???? Do bad teeth protect against the virus or something?

No, they decided they would ignore the WHO directives on how to classify COVID19 deaths a few weeks back and are instead using their own set of rules which clearly are not producing expected results and they also went back and adjusted the previous months figures as well I suspect they are only counting those with no identifiable co-morbidities as some of the 'fringe' posters in this thread have suggested.

Unfortunately, if everyone isn't reading from the same hymn sheet then we are never going to understand the real impact this is having.

In the case of the UK, it always looked that their 12-14%+ CMR was too high compared to similar countries and you can't even blame low testing as they have tested about a third of the adult population but they are now going too far the other way.

Sensibly, you'd apply the 2-3% that seems to be the norm in most Western countries with reasonable health care systems so the last month worth of cases (34,788) should have resulted in something like 700-1,000 deaths and not the 319 reported.

[MITCHAY]

If you don't like what the data is telling you, just change the way you measure it

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Cav

Three QCs are rumoured to be supporting the woman who in the words of the fat controller as he peered over his black rimmed spectacles for dramatic effect, "This is a serious criminal offence."

Does the arrest satisfy s321G?

Have you seen the letter from the Victorian Bar Association? They've raised concerns about the arrest and the use of handcuffs.

The overhanded tactics of the VicPol is being brought to the forefront. Next year is going to be the year of "Class Action".

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by leesa

Because public health measures are the responsibility of everyone.
Or are you also advocating kids be allowed to take nuts to school now because **** everyone else who has an allergy? Why should someone's child be denied because of someone else's allergy? Why should I avoid drinking and driving when you could just stay off the roads if you don't want to risk getting into an accident?
It's not just all about you.

If we find out in the coming years that covid causes major organ damage and reduced life spans in people who even had mild cases, I bet you'll be the first to squawk about how you weren't protected.

Its not all about you either, and no I wouldn't be the first one squawking because I follow this foreign concept known as 'accountability for my own actions'