The Thailand Special Thread - New Developments/News

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They didn't do a very good last time, it was PAPPA GOVERNMENT SAVE US! OUR ONE CUSTOMER WE SHARE NO CULTURAL VALUES WITH STABBED US IN THE BACK!

Except Pappa Government basically caused the retribution by daring to ask our biggest trading partner 'WTF, your virus bro?' (how dare we question our Sino-overlords)

Then when China backed off, they've gone straight back to having one customer, in a move that surprised absolutely no one.

We've all heard of monopoly, but no one seems to understand the concept of the monopsony, which is what our producers have backed themselves into a corner with.

The problem is you need to do the sales work to diversify before you get stuck in the trade war.

Its a very one sided relationship, our producers need China, but China doesn't need our producers, its a 'nice to have' for their middle class who can afford our products, and there's plenty of other countries they can source commodities from, thats the problem being a commodity trader, they're commodities - low value, easily sourced/produced goods and why Australia has an 'economic complexity' ranked somewhere around Uganda, because we basically either dig shit up out of the ground, sell animals/vegetables or sell real estate to foreign interests using our market to launder money out of their own economies.

I have issues with China like everyone else, but lets use some lube before we bend over. I'm waiting for the accusations to start about me being on CCP payroll

You're all here playing checkers and China is playing 4D chess, we're up shit creek without a paddle if we play trade war with our biggest trading partner before we get our shit together and diversify to new markets.

It's off topic, but they actually DO need the coal and iron ore - we're a very reliable, relatively close, high quality provider. So when they spat the dummy and blacklisted our products, they shot themselves in the foot badly with coal, forcing rationing and factories were prioritised leading to reports of everyday people not having heating in north China's brutal winter. Notice in all that they didn't blacklist iron ore - we hold them over a barrel with that one. On top of that 70% of the East Coast's gas is on contract to go to China, I wonder if that's significant?

There's an idea within the BRICS that commodity producers get together, form a currency backed by the resources, and basically demand more/hold power over consumers. In this tariff example, Australia inadvertently (Scomo, did you think before you spoke? Nevertheless, it was the most bold bit of statesmanship done by an Aussie PM post WW2) ended up doing the commodity squeeze on the C in the BRICS.

In history, the Dutch East Indies turned off the oil to imperial Japan in 1940 with not enough military muscle to defend it, as Japan expanded throughout South East Asia (Indochina). Not long after, they got rolled.

Also out of interest, the Imperial Japanese war aim was the 'Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere', whereby raw materials from the 'Southern Area' were value added in Japan, as part of an empire. (They largely achieved this post war!) If you look at the Made In China 2049 plan, it's not all that dis-similar.

Our economic complexity rivalling Uganda is due to insanely stupid industry policy for the last 40 years, we've complained about it here enough. If we deliver coffees to another fast enough, we can raise GDP. If not, add more people.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its not an open market, its protected by legislation, and tax incentives which encourage consumers towards Thailand Specials, it also reduces your taxable income on centrelink entitlements on family tax benefit and childcare subsidies if you have an ABN and a Thailand Special.

There's other competitors with the same feature set, as per the Isuzu DMax we've been talking about in the same page, which is $32K DA at the povvo spec end, which includes a lot of those 5 star ANCAP features - $13K cheaper than the Ranger, and it also comes from Thailand so it exposed to the same drama with the Australian peso.

None of those ANCAP requirements are legislated, they're just 'nice to have', everyone hates all this autonomous bullshit, especially on this forum there's huge discussion about it, and there's only a couple people here who prefer the car driving for them.

If you look at private vehicle sales, using the 2023 full year as the metric, the Tesla Model Y is Australia's most popular vehicle amongst private buyers, so Australian consumers prefer EVs (as of 2023) - I don't consider corporate purchases as 'consumers' (people), they don't have tax incentives to buy Thailand Specials.

Hum, hasn't there been incentives for yonks your neglecting from Fed/State Govs buying EV's till some changes recently State by State and some that are yet to enforce till later ?
So whats the diff be it dual cab tax incentives to your fav no1 private sales brand ?
Private EV buyers have been getting a leg in since they entered or doesn't this count ?

Just go buy your chinese made model3 Franco and join the party, I mean CCP haha

Just a few random's below....I can't be bothered hunting the bigger incentives from way back for PRIVATE EV buyers.

The NT Government is offering residential grants of $1,000 and business grants of $2,500 to EV owners.
Since July 1, 2022, eligible low- or zero-emission vehicles are exempt from FBT. This exemption can be particularly beneficial for those purchasing an EV through a novated lease.
EV purchasers Australia-wide can enjoy these benefits in 2024: Exemption from fringe benefits tax (FBT) for EVs and PHEVs under the luxury car tax threshold. Higher luxury car tax (LCT) threshold: $89,332 compared to $76,950 for petrol and diesel vehicles.
The federal government offers a $12000 rebate for those who buy electric vehicles.22 Dec 2023.
Reduced Registration Fees: EVs are eligible for reduced registration fees. The annual registration fee for an EV is $91, compared to $249 for a petrol or diesel car.

and this later
A road user charge will apply to eligible EVs from 1 July 2027 or when EVs make up 30 per cent of all new vehicle sales, whichever comes first. Plug-in hybrid EVs will be charged a fixed 80 per cent proportion of the full road user charge to reflect their vehicle type.

[prydey]

There seems to be an assumption that if the subsidies stopped, those people benefiting from them would buy different vehicles.

This is not rational because many of those people are still buying the vehicles they need.

Of course their may be some that only bought due to the subsidy but it's impossible to say what those people would buy if the subsidy didn't exist.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Hum, hasn't there been incentives for yonks your neglecting from Fed/State Govs buying EV's till some changes recently State by State and some that are yet to enforce till later ?
So whats the diff be it dual cab tax incentives to your fav no1 private sales brand ?
Private EV buyers have been getting a leg in since they entered or doesn't this count ?

Just go buy your chinese made model3 Franco and join the party, I mean CCP haha

Just a few random's below....I can't be bothered hunting the bigger incentives from way back for PRIVATE EV buyers.

The NT Government is offering residential grants of $1,000 and business grants of $2,500 to EV owners.
Since July 1, 2022, eligible low- or zero-emission vehicles are exempt from FBT. This exemption can be particularly beneficial for those purchasing an EV through a novated lease.
EV purchasers Australia-wide can enjoy these benefits in 2024: Exemption from fringe benefits tax (FBT) for EVs and PHEVs under the luxury car tax threshold. Higher luxury car tax (LCT) threshold: $89,332 compared to $76,950 for petrol and diesel vehicles.
The federal government offers a $12000 rebate for those who buy electric vehicles.22 Dec 2023.
Reduced Registration Fees: EVs are eligible for reduced registration fees. The annual registration fee for an EV is $91, compared to $249 for a petrol or diesel car.

and this later
A road user charge will apply to eligible EVs from 1 July 2027 or when EVs make up 30 per cent of all new vehicle sales, whichever comes first. Plug-in hybrid EVs will be charged a fixed 80 per cent proportion of the full road user charge to reflect their vehicle type.

Close, but the devil is in the details

- Used EVs (first used before July 1, 2022) aren't eligible, but Thailand Specials still are, so you can buy a used Thailand Special and get all the tax advantages, but you can't buy a used EV.

- EVs fall under the car cost limit under Income Tax Assessment, caps the maximum value of a vehicle that can be used for claiming depreciation and GST credits which is capped at $68K, but because Thailand Specials aren't 'cars' for tax purposes, they can claim the full GST and depreciation credits regardless of the purchase price.


- FBT exempt EVs still have reportable fringe benefit disclosures, but FBT exempt Thailand Specials don't, which are taken into account with family tax benefit, childcare subsidies, higher education loans and other stuff. So someone with a Thailand Special, has entitlement advantages for shit like childcare subsidies and Centrelink entitlements they probably wouldn't be eligible for with other cars.

They're still incentivising Thailand Specials well above and beyond EVs,

Next time don't try use my own misinformation tactics against me, you need to tell at least half the story not just 20% of it

Canberra is interfering in our new car market, you can't have the VFACTS and 'consumer' conversation without addressing the federal governments interference in our new car market, otherwise its just misinformation.

I don't particularly care that certain vehicles are getting tax advantages, but you don't get to play it both ways, the people who whinge about 'my taxes' usually are the offenders with the Thailand Special playing the game

If you want to play the my taxes game, ask our societies biggest cash-cows (DINKs) what they think about paying for others kids education and child care.

VicRoads gives you a $100 discount on your rego fee for an EV, which is the same discount I get on any car for being regional, so its not like there's anything above and beyond for EV owners in rego and that sort of thing.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

There seems to be an assumption that if the subsidies stopped, those people benefiting from them would buy different vehicles.

This is not rational because many of those people are still buying the vehicles they need.

Of course their may be some that only bought due to the subsidy but it's impossible to say what those people would buy if the subsidy didn't exist.

If that was the case, then why does this happen?

Tesla Model Y was Australia’s best-selling car among private buyers in 2023

The favourite new car among private buyers in Australia last year was electric – the Tesla Model Y family SUV – for the first time, new data shows.

The Ford Ranger and Toyota HiLux have led overall new-vehicle sales for close to a decade, when sales from all buyer types – including business and trade fleets, governments and rental-car companies – are included.

But when only private buyers – who paid for their car and registered it in their name – are counted, the Tesla Model Y electric SUV topped the charts ahead of the MG ZS and Toyota RAV4 SUVs.

The Ford Ranger and Toyota HiLux utes remain in the Top 10, but they fall from first and second overall – to fourth and eighth respectively.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/best-s...e-buyers-2023/

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If that was the case, then why does this happen?



https://www.drive.com.au/news/best-s...e-buyers-2023/

Why does what happen?

Most vehicles bought using an abn would be legitimate purchases regardless of subsidy.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Getting rid of the subsidies doesn't mean that suddenly the ute buyer will buy something else instead if that ute is necessary for the business.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Why does what happen?

Most vehicles bought using an abn would be legitimate purchases regardless of subsidy.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Getting rid of the subsidies doesn't mean that suddenly the ute buyer will buy something else instead if that ute is necessary for the business.

Not dual cabs, because they're useless for work

Single cab, trayback for sure,

Or vans,

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Close, but the devil is in the details

- Used EVs (first used before July 1, 2022) aren't eligible, but Thailand Specials still are, so you can buy a used Thailand Special and get all the tax advantages, but you can't buy a used EV.

- EVs fall under the car cost limit under Income Tax Assessment, caps the maximum value of a vehicle that can be used for claiming depreciation and GST credits which is capped at $68K, but because Thailand Specials aren't 'cars' for tax purposes, they can claim the full GST and depreciation credits regardless of the purchase price.


- FBT exempt EVs still have reportable fringe benefit disclosures, but FBT exempt Thailand Specials don't, which are taken into account with family tax benefit, childcare subsidies, higher education loans and other stuff. So someone with a Thailand Special, has entitlement advantages for shit like childcare subsidies and Centrelink entitlements they probably wouldn't be eligible for with other cars.

They're still incentivising Thailand Specials well above and beyond EVs,

Next time don't try use my own misinformation tactics against me, you need to tell at least half the story not just 20% of it

Canberra is interfering in our new car market, you can't have the VFACTS and 'consumer' conversation without addressing the federal governments interference in our new car market, otherwise its just misinformation.

I don't particularly care that certain vehicles are getting tax advantages, but you don't get to play it both ways, the people who whinge about 'my taxes' usually are the offenders with the Thailand Special playing the game

If you want to play the my taxes game, ask our societies biggest cash-cows (DINKs) what they think about paying for others kids education and child care.

VicRoads gives you a $100 discount on your rego fee for an EV, which is the same discount I get on any car for being regional, so its not like there's anything above and beyond for EV owners in rego and that sort of thing.

haha Franco I could play back and forth though seriously have not much care hence hardly debating, my response was highlighting EV new purchase "incentives".
We're talking NEW purchase sales no more no less.
What directive the Feds do is what it is for decades, you work with what you can and cannot do.
As for the "whinges" - hey I agree there, back in my day the whinging Pom was the common mention amongst many - thats long gone, general Australians have taken that mantle 3fold last 25yrs at least.
Don't know how damn good they have it full stop period compared to most other civilised western countries and here we are.
Oh DINKS have a bone to pic where their tax's go re childcare and education, christ turn it up.
Are people that picky and fickle - tuff titties, we're paying tax's and could whinge moan over so much waste and why what part of our tax's going to a sector that doesn't apply to ME.
FFS.
Overall I'm happy to HELP.
Be it DINKS add Boomers, < the scorn of the young gens though paying that don't apply to them as well, oh hang on they have too much wealth.

By the way Dual Cabs suffice for general light duty work, some don't need tray backs single cabs, not every dual cab purchase is the way you see but far enough its just your opinion no more no less.


Anyway lets move on even after your reply that I'm sure will be at my throat for we should stay on topic as much as we can.
Peace man.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by FTE217

haha Franco I could play back and forth though seriously have not much care hence hardly debating, my response was highlighting EV new purchase "incentives".
We're talking NEW purchase sales no more no less.
What directive the Feds do is what it is for decades, you work with what you can and cannot do.
As for the "whinges" - hey I agree there, back in my day the whinging Pom was the common mention amongst many - thats long gone, general Australians have taken that mantle 3fold last 25yrs at least.
Don't know how damn good they have it full stop period compared to most other civilised western countries and here we are.
Oh DINKS have a bone to pic where their tax's go re childcare and education, christ turn it up.
Are people that picky and fickle - tuff titties, we're paying tax's and could whinge moan over so much waste and why what part of our tax's going to a sector that doesn't apply to ME.
FFS.
Overall I'm happy to HELP.
Be it DINKS add Boomers, < the scorn of the young gens though paying that don't apply to them as well, oh hang on they have too much wealth.

By the way Dual Cabs suffice for general light duty work, some don't need tray backs single cabs, not every dual cab purchase is the way you see but far enough its just your opinion no more no less.


Anyway lets move on even after your reply that I'm sure will be at my throat for we should stay on topic as much as we can.
Peace man.

Off topic
I want to complain
Cost of living crisis
I finally discovered this crisis
Yesterday
One Haas Avocado
$2.90
At woolworths
This is a CRISIS

[smoo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

As for the "whinges" - hey I agree there, back in my day the whinging Pom was the common mention amongst many - thats long gone, general Australians have taken that mantle 3fold last 25yrs at least.
Don't know how damn good they have it full stop period compared to most other civilised western countries and here we are.

Off topic (or maybe not if high financed dual cab/70 series is involved).
I’m currently working on a mine site.
One fitter here in his 50s, everything coming outa his mouth is a whinge. He whinges about his pay and roster… $170k on an 8/6.
Another one mid 20s bloke refused to sign on to the company (from a labour hire mob) because $170k and 8/6 isn’t enough, apparently.
I don’t think I’ve come across so much laziness, entitlement and perceived self worth IRL since working on a site.
Funny, considering they’d be boat loads of Indians and Filipinos lining up to do the same job for a fraction of the pay.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

- Used EVs (first used before July 1, 2022) aren't eligible, but Thailand Specials still are, so you can buy a used Thailand Special and get all the tax advantages, but you can't buy a used EV.

Now, who is being selective. The EV incentive was designed to increase the EV fleet size at a time that early adopters were starting to offload their first EV and go back to ICE. Allowing the EV incentive on second hand vehicles just gives a get out of jail free card to those who had one. It is a bit like the incentives on purchasing new energy efficient appliances (like converting gas to heat pumps) and saying "OK, we will pay out on old second hand heat pumps as well, broken or not.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

- EVs fall under the car cost limit under Income Tax Assessment, caps the maximum value of a vehicle that can be used for claiming depreciation and GST credits which is capped at $68K, but because Thailand Specials aren't 'cars' for tax purposes, they can claim the full GST and depreciation credits regardless of the purchase price.

Aren't cars eh?

This is what the ATO has to say;

-----
https://www.ato.gov.au/tax-and-super...hicle-expenses

Car
A ‘car’ is a motor vehicle (including electric vehicle) that is designed to carry:

1. a load of less than one tonne, and
2. fewer than 9 passengers.

Many four-wheel drives and some utes are classed as cars.

-----

That is why certain model Rangers have a payload of 985kg, whereas the single cab tray back has a 1327kg payload. Because when the payload is under 1,000kg, --- by the ATO rules --- the vehicle can be a novated lease. Over 1,000kgs it cannot.

FBT is certainly payable on a novated lease ... that is why FBT was introduced. The "incentive" is that the owner can shift post tax 45% to pre-tax of 15%. But this is not restricted to what is derogatorily called Thailand specials; it also applies to every "car" that is on the market.

As for the FBT exemption, another set of rules apply.

-----
See https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-an...gible-vehicles

To use an FBT vehicle privately, then the exemption events apply.


Vehicles eligible for the exemption

The following vehicles are eligible for the limited private use exemption:

a single cab ute
a dual cab ute that is designed to either

• carry a load of 1 tonne or more
• carry more than 8 passengers (including the driver)
• carry a load of less than 1 tonne but is not designed for the principal purpose of carrying passengers. To work out if a dual cab ute meets this condition, see MT 2024 Fringe benefits tax: dual cab vehicles eligibility for exemption where private use is limited to certain work-related travel on our legal database

-----

Followed by a list of what the ATO considered exempt uses. Remember, FBT exemption only applies to Rangers, Hilux, et al that have a payload of greater than 1 tonne or more.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

- FBT exempt EVs still have reportable fringe benefit disclosures, but FBT exempt Thailand Specials don't, which are taken into account with family tax benefit, childcare subsidies, higher education loans and other stuff. So someone with a Thailand Special, has entitlement advantages for shit like childcare subsidies and Centrelink entitlements they probably wouldn't be eligible for with other cars.

They're still incentivising Thailand Specials well above and beyond EVs,

Most Rangers and Hilux (with a payload capacity under 1,000 kgs) are treated as a "car" by the ATO and attract FBT. What you need is a list of

A) Ford Rangers sold under 1 tonne payload (which will attract an FBT)
B) Ford Rangers sold over 1 tonne payload (which are FBT exempt)

If a Ford Ranger is sold to an owner post-tax, you have nothing to whinge about.

If a Ford Ranger is classified as having under 1,000 kg payload (by ATO rules), it is treated as a car and subject to FBT. Once again, you have nothing to whinge about.

If a Ford Ranger is classified has having over 1,000 kg payload, it may (repeat may) be FBT exempt. But in doing so, it rules out novated leases. Which, is the major attractiveness to office professionals who drive their 4WD to work. Further, there is a set list of uses for FBT exemption. Use outside this list the vehicle attracts FBT (and log books, etc).

The EV FBT exemption was actually a special carve out tax savings for EV purchasers. Because ATO classify a vehicle with a payload under 1,000kg as a 'car' and hence subject to FBT, this clause was a freebie by the ALP to convert it to non-FBT assessable whilst allowing it to be still used in circumstances that would otherwise result in the ATO slapping FBT assessable. This is the complete opposite to the "facts" that you are trying to assert.

Rather than it being a freebie to the Ranger, Hilux, et al ... it was actually a freebie to the EV.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Next time don't try use my own misinformation tactics against me, you need to tell at least half the story not just 20% of it

Hummm .....