Russia v Ukraine

[FairmontGS]

Day 50 and 52

[hackney]

Originally Posted by zilo

Putin is kicking Ukraines back side, but keep the denials/propoganda flowing.
Gives us something to laugh at...
Sooner or later it will be over, Ukraine will tow the line.

Really? You are delusional with that way of thinking.May I suggest a ‘one way’ ticket to Russia just for you.Seems like you are a Putin supporter.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by hackney

Really? You are delusional with that way of thinking.May I suggest a ‘one way’ ticket to Russia just for you.Seems like you are a Putin supporter.

In this country it’s Ok to be a complete “Wack-job” (Proof above).

In Russia you can get arrested for standing around holding a blank piece of paper (Google that).

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

In this country it’s Ok to be a complete “Wack-job” (Proof above).

In Russia you can get arrested for standing around holding a blank piece of paper (Google that).

Think he is well & truly ‘out of whack’. Unfortunately, they ‘walk’ among us.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by zilo

This is a thread about a war...not a counselling session...

Well maybe you should heed your own advice!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by zilo

This is a thread about a war...not a counselling session...

Ok you've had your fun winding people up, but please leave your trolling for other forums.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Ok you've had your fun winding people up, but please leave your trolling for other forums.

The trouble is he won’t.Habitual offender.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by MDS69

Just a casual observer who is only getting my information from western media, it seems that just about 99% of Ukraine’s targets are the invaders inside their own borders ie military targets but Russia is reported as bombing hospitals, schools, residential, shopping centres etc with massive civilian casualties as well as military targets thrown in for good measure. Why isn’t the Ukraine sending a few missiles over the border in retaliation or will this inflame things beyond all get out. Why are all other countries only providing back door assistance and sanctions and not direct assistance. Will this start the rumoured WWIII. Send Russia back to the dark ages I say.

Expand the sources of your information if you want to seek "the truth". The term "military target" is not as straight forward as it seems. Ritter explains this in this videos. Under the rules of war, if you park a tank next to the school, it becomes a military target, if you hide ammunition and snipers in apartment buildings, it becomes a military target, if you set up artillery at train stations, it becomes a military target, if you arm civilians, they become a military target. It then becomes not a war crime to make these targets. Remember, all men of military age (18 to 60) have been banned from leaving Ukraine and must take up arms. That pretty much makes them all a target?

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "civilians" deaths. Again, Ritter talks about the ratio of military to civilian deaths of past wars. According to the reported deaths at the moment, that ratio in Ukraine is way lower than the average.

I reckon Putin has a big problem. Many Russians see Ukranians (and ethnic Russians living in Ukraine) as one of the same family. He can't slaughter them with indiscriminate bombings, he would lose support on the motherland very quickly.

Why hasn't Ukraine lobbed a few back? They probably don't have the capability nor has "the west" armed them with the capability. Its interesting to note that the weapons given to Ukraine will allow them to win skirmishes and battles, not wars. Sadly, it may be in the interest of some for this war to keep going and going and going.

That's my arm chair observer's view.

[PhilT2]

The yacht "Dilbar" which was being detained in a german shipyard has now been officially seized by german authorities. They have now determined that the true owner is the russian oligarch Alisher Usmanov whose wealth is estimated at $19.5b. He is currently under sanction and his ability to travel is restricted.
The yacht cost approx $600m to construct and gross tonnage is 15,950 tonnes. By comparison the warship Moskva weighed 12,500 t.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

The yacht "Dilbar" which was being detained in a german shipyard has now been officially seized by german authorities. They have now determined that the true owner is the russian oligarch Alisher Usmanov whose wealth is estimated at $19.5b. He is currently under sanction and his ability to travel is restricted.
The yacht cost approx $600m to construct and gross tonnage is 15,950 tonnes. By comparison the warship Moskva weighed 12,500 t.

Treat it like the Pong Su

[zilo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

E Under the rules of war, if you park a tank next to the school, it becomes a military target, if you hide ammunition and snipers in apartment buildings, it becomes a military target, if you set up artillery at train stations, it becomes a military target, if you arm civilians, they become a military target. It then becomes not a war crime to make these targets. Remember, all men of military age (18 to 60) have been banned from leaving Ukraine and must take up arms. That pretty much makes them all a target?

That takes care of the civilian statistics.

Thank you for an eloquent explanation in simplistic terms.

(it should be clear to a few here now )

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Remember, all men of military age (18 to 60) have been banned from leaving Ukraine and must take up arms. That pretty much makes them all a target?

I know that it has been reported that way but lots of men would not have taken up arms. Doctors, farmers and other essential workers in power plants, arms factories etc would be exempt. In some cases it doesn't matter; when a body is found with hands tied and a bullet hole in the back of the head we can call that a war crime. Same goes for rape and torture; no excuses accepted.

We need an independent investigation to verify the facts in this, not that the Russians responsible are ever likely to face consequences for their actions. But, if proven, it will show them up to be a poorly disciplined, untrained and badly lead rabble. The Ukrainians need to be monitored to ensure they don't decide to return the favour. Maybe the UN could get off their tails and get some observers in there.

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Oooh, wow. Please don't include me in this "us" business you speak of.

Originally Posted by zilo

Ooh,wow....no worries, (you are in the "them"" group)

Yep, call me "them".. as much as I can use 0's and 1's, I know there's more to it than "some do".

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

We need an independent investigation to verify the facts in this, not that the Russians responsible are ever likely to face consequences for their actions.

Absolutely....."Independent" is the key word. Have UN investigators been allowed to enter yet? Why has it taken so long? Evidence is decaying.

Another fascinating interview, touches on what might have happened in Bucha based on his intel, which is supposedly all open source. Again, just one man's view. But if you watch other "news" channels with less visual censorship, some which are readily available on our screens through the likes of Foxtel, you start to see bits and pieces collaborating. Read up on "sabotage squads" which has been mentioned on our own msm.

Fast forward to 6:15 where he starts talking about the situation in Ukraine The first bit was just the interviewer asking him about Iraq. The possibility will be hard to swallow for some, because its not what they have been force fed.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Another fascinating interview, touches on what might have happened in Bucha based on his intel, which is supposedly all open source.

It doesn't help his credibility when he is wrong about easily checked facts. At 15.00 he talks about the bodies left out in the street that should have decayed in the warm weather. The actual weather reports for that area show it was still near freezing at that time.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/ua/ky...weather/324505


He claims to have data to back up his story but doesn't produce it. The other side has satellite photos, eyewitness accounts and forensic evidence, all of which needs to be verified of course. But Ritter has produced nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMsz-WNNVQw

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

It doesn't help his credibility when he is wrong about easily checked facts. At 15.00 he talks about the bodies left out in the street that should have decayed in the warm weather. The actual weather reports for that area show it was still near freezing at that time.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/ua/ky...weather/324505


He claims to have data to back up his story but doesn't produce it. The other side has satellite photos, eyewitness accounts and forensic evidence, all of which needs to be verified of course. But Ritter has produced nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMsz-WNNVQw

Safe to say both sides are committing atrocities. Both must be held to account.

I think he mentions about the humidity affecting the bodies. Dunno, not my area of knowledge, hence why I'm curious why UN inspectors aren't in there sooner. If its safe for world leaders to tour the area, then its safe for UN investigators. It was also reported early on by msm that starving animals, including domestics, were taking bodies. But these happen to just lie there for weeks on end untouched. Its just odd.

Anyway, as with previous wars, we'll know the truth in about 10-20 years time.

[MDS69]

So if Russia are victorious and occupy the Ukraine are they going to now spend god knows how much money to rebuild everything they just destroyed.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by MDS69

So if Russia are victorious and occupy the Ukraine are they going to now spend god knows how much money to rebuild everything they just destroyed.

Perhaps Putin has been reading the wrong books?


The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Perhaps Putin has been reading the wrong books?


The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.

George Bush reduced Iraq back to the stone age with cruise missiles.
But of course it didn't matter, the oil was under ground.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

It doesn't help his credibility when he is wrong about easily checked facts. At 15.00 he talks about the bodies left out in the street that should have decayed in the warm weather. The actual weather reports for that area show it was still near freezing at that time.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/ua/ky...weather/324505


He claims to have data to back up his story but doesn't produce it. The other side has satellite photos, eyewitness accounts and forensic evidence, all of which needs to be verified of course. But Ritter has produced nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMsz-WNNVQw

So ...you condemn someone with infinitely more experience based on a weather report and satellite photos?

Clear thinking 101, year 11 at high school....you must have failed it?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

image

Yep, call me "them".. as much as I can use 0's and 1's, I know there's more to it than "some do".

You went through 2600 posts ?

wow..impressive troll work...

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by zilo

You went through 2600 posts ?

wow..impressive troll work...

Yeah, nah. I just looked up the few threads you have started here. And I really only looked at the one starting with "hello"... But, I pretty soon realised smarter people than me were disappointed...

So, have a happy life.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Yeah, nah. I just looked up the few threads you have started here. And I really only looked at the one starting with "hello"... But, I pretty soon realised smarter people than me were disappointed...

So, have a happy life.

Phew..lucky for me your vocab is limited to only two syllables...

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by MDS69

So if Russia are victorious and occupy the Ukraine are they going to now spend god knows how much money to rebuild everything they just destroyed.

Going back to their stated objective, they aren't interested in occupying all of Ukraine. They want the Donbas region, which is where the war is now. The rebuilding of infrastructure in the capital and west ward won't be their concern. They will however want influence / control of the regime governing Ukraine.

Its got me curious, if Russia does indeed manage to take the Donbas, and the people there vote to be independent (Putin has said he will put it to a referendum), what will "the west" do? It will be akin to Taiwan. If Ukraine threaten to take it back by force, will they stand up for democracy for the region? hmmmmmmm. Now wouldn't that be a headache.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Perhaps Putin has been reading the wrong books?


The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.

He can read?

[FairmontGS]

Day 56



https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...-events-day-56

Vladimir Putin's rumoured purge over his disastrous war in Ukraine could show he fell into the 'dictator trap'

More than 100 agents from Russia's secret intelligence agency, the Federal Security Bureau (FSB), have been removed from their posts, according to the UK Times.

All of those ousted reportedly worked for a division known as the Fifth Service, which was set up by Putin in 1998 to keep former Soviet Union countries within Russia's orbit.

The online investigative collective Bellingcat believes the agents were either sacked or arrested.

"I can say that although a significant number of them have not been arrested, they will no longer work for the FSB," said Bellingcat executive director Christo Grozev.

The head of the Fifth Service, Colonel General Sergey Beseda, has been detained.

Beseda was placed under house arrest in March for "reporting false information to the Kremlin about the real situation in Ukraine before the invasion", according to Grozev.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-...aine/100997186

[Citroënbender]

That’s interesting (the article excerpt). Beseda was a veteran of the long haul.

[Citroënbender]

From Maria Antonova, Twitter:

https://twitter.com/mashant/status/1512063882113609742

Summary for the linkophobes:
1. Top downloads for apps in Russia, March 2022 were VPNs.
2. Most Russians will not be able to make or renew a subscription (for a reliable VPN service) due to payment blocking.
3. If you have Russian (resident) friends in this bind, consider paying for their VPN.

[FairmontGS]

Russian inflation slows to pre-war level as worst appears over

Russian weekly inflation slowed to a level last seen before the invasion of Ukraine in February, a turnaround helped by a stronger ruble and the end of panic buying that caused some snap shortages.

Price growth was just 0.2% in the seven days ended April 15, slowing for the sixth week in a row and now at less than a 10th the pace in early March, the Federal Statistics Service said Wednesday.

The economy is facing a deep, two-year recession, with this a contraction in gross domestic product forecast at 8.5% in 2022 by the International Monetary Fund. Nabiullina has said fighting inflation will be less of a priority and the central bank doesn’t expect to achieve its 4% target until 2024.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/20...t-appears-over

[CoupeKing]

We win, you lose.