Covid 19 -

[Trevor 57]

a pee station sound appropriate lol

[russellw]

I've said it before but it bears repeating here.

I'm not sure why they all feel the need to lie about it, especially public servants who are almost unsackable anyway.

What's the worst case? They look stupid? Their career stalls? People burn effigies of them in the street?

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues. It wouldn't have been a single individual that made the decision anyway so they might as well line up for the collective public rogering and get it over with.

1. If you lie about it then you just look plain bad and if you lie to the inquiry then you've committed an offence that will be career ending anyway;
2. If you are stupid enough to think that the electronic trail wouldn't lead back to you eventually then you deserve to lose your $600k per annum CHO job; and
3. If you think the "I didn't read the detail" excuse gets you off the hook then we can add incompetence to lying and stupidity regardless of how many emails you get per day. Mind you, I agree that such portentous matters shouldn't be left to an email communication but I'd be prepared to bet that there were conversations about the decision.

Let's not forget that while it turned out to be a bad decision, it made reasonable sense at the time it was made and it's only the outcome and media brouhaha that is has made it such a poisoned chalice.

I wonder how many of them would be putting up their hands claiming credit if the decision had been a good one?

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by leesa

https://www.smh.com.au/national/bill...02-p54gjh.html

https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/...f-1ca1069b9473

You have just proved what you need to do to gaurantee supply. Why was there no steel or aluminium available for years around WW2? The government and its agencies requisitioned all iof it. Someone in China was way smarter than all levels of our government and health agencies.

This is also why I hope you don’t get your wish to sweep all of this under the carpet, have a virtual cuddle and move on. We need accountability because come March next year this will all be on again. We need to learn from all the mistakes and if someone messed it up the first time, they cannot do it again. Look at Europe now, Winter is Coming

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT October 20th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

30 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.299% while active cases rise to 1,398. NSW recorded 5 cases, WA had 24 with the balance (1) in Victoria.

The Victorian State 14 day moving average is down to 7.21 with metro falling to 6.2 (12 unknown) and regional at 0.4 with no unknown cases (including today). Victoria reported 3 new cases for the last 24 hours.

1 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.325% and active cases fall to 35.

The UK had a new record 21,330 new cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 241 deaths.

Just over 60.5k new cases in the USA yesterday and 458 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.663% and active cases steady at to 32.3% with the raw numbers rising over 2.7M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 41M with the last 1M only taking 3 days;
Europe set a new daily case high of 154,647 (20/10);
The USA completes 127M, India 96M, UK 30M, Poland 4M, Morocco & Portugal 3M and Venezuela 2M test;

Albania (301)
Greece (667)
Bosnia (728)
Georgia (1,194)
Bulgaria (1,336)
Iran (5,039)
Czechia (11,984)
Spain (13,873) - the highest since 18th September
Russia (16,319); and
the UK (21,330) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

Originally Posted by tweeked

Someone in China was way smarter than all levels of our government and health agencies.

China's manufacturing capacity is 20 - 110 million masks per day, why would they bother to source 3 million masks from australia and ship them back? It left our stocks low for the population and healthcare workers alike. I don't want to seem like a conspiracy theorist but that's a pretty dirty thing to do to a country that you want to continue a diplomatic relationship with.

Originally Posted by tweeked

This is also why I hope you don’t get your wish to sweep all of this under the carpet

Yeah I didn't actually say that it should be swept under the carpet. If that's how you interpreted what I said then I'm not sure there's much else to explain as you may misinterpret that also?

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by russellw

I've said it before but it bears repeating here.

I'm not sure why they all feel the need to lie about it, especially public servants who are almost unsackable anyway.

What's the worst case? They look stupid? Their career stalls? People burn effigies of them in the street?

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues. It wouldn't have been a single individual that made the decision anyway so they might as well line up for the collective public rogering and get it over with.

1. If you lie about it then you just look plain bad and if you lie to the inquiry then you've committed an offence that will be career ending anyway;
2. If you are stupid enough to think that the electronic trail wouldn't lead back to you eventually then you deserve to lose your $600k per annum CHO job; and
3. If you think the "I didn't read the detail" excuse gets you off the hook then we can add incompetence to lying and stupidity regardless of how many emails you get per day. Mind you, I agree that such portentous matters shouldn't be left to an email communication but I'd be prepared to bet that there were conversations about the decision.

Let's not forget that while it turned out to be a bad decision, it made reasonable sense at the time it was made and it's only the outcome and media brouhaha that is has made it such a poisoned chalice.

I wonder how many of them would be putting up their hands claiming credit if the decision had been a good one?

If he didn't remember being emailed then it would have been best to just say that - "I don't recall getting anything on it, but I'll go back and recheck everything and get back to you". Then it would have been "Thanks Prof. Sutton, appreciate if you can do that."

Tick, job done.

But now it looks like he deliberately decided to suppress evidence. This is what happens when u get caught out fibbing - you keep fibbing to cover up the prior porky.

Anyhoo, on with the chase!

Sutton told lawyers they didn't need to hand security guard emails to inquiry

https://www.smh.com.au/national/vict...20-p566wk.html

[Polyal]

Have a go at the amount of abbreviation in Sutto's email signature, bugger me id forget after the first couple! He must have a ripper linkedin account

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Have a go at the amount of abbreviation in Sutto's email signature, bugger me id forget after the first couple! He must have a ripper linkedin account

Looks like his cat walked across the keyboard.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by leesa

China's manufacturing capacity is 20 - 110 million masks per day, why would they bother to source 3 million masks from australia and ship them back? It left our stocks low for the population and healthcare workers alike. I don't want to seem like a conspiracy theorist but that's a pretty dirty thing to do to a country that you want to continue a diplomatic relationship with.

My Father in law lives in China. Not Wuhan, 800km away, but still virtually no one there was allowed out for 2 months at that time, they were not manufacturing much at all at that time. Their lockdown made Victoria's look like spring break. He had a 300mt walk to the supermarket, had to pass 2 police checkpoints to get there, getting his temperature taken at each.
It wasn't just 3 million from Australia, they were getting plane loads from everywhere. But they had practice from SARS, and knew what needed to be done.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

For sure

Your garage is impressive (during covid to keep on topic )

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Your garage is impressive (during covid to keep on topic )

Yes, they’re excellent vehicles for mowing down plague ridden zombies (to stay on topic)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[prydey]

Originally Posted by russellw

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues.

This is the bit that gets conveniently left out by those with the pitchforks...

Some people just want to string someone up rather than admit personal responsibility played just as big a role, if not bigger.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by leesa

People do that so there's a written record of management having been notified. Very helpful down the track when management decide they want to play dumb that they weren't aware of x/y/z and the poor chump who's about to get blamed for it can demonstrate that the boss was indeed notified.

Generally better to speak about it in person or over the phone and if the boss doesn't agree to it/approve it/whatever.. and you foresee the writing on the wall down the track because the boss has failed to do x/y/z... follow up with an email that says "as per our recent conversation about yadda yadda" with your recommended plan of action and the likely outcome if those actions aren't taken.

I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people would be happy to throw someone else under the bus to save themselves and there's no proof to be had from in-person conversations so protect your own ***!

Leesa, I have worked for a boss that would never agree to or admit to anything over the phone...

He hated it when I would send the email saying "as per our phone conversation on the x day of x month of x year insert subject line".

There comes a point where you have to have a written trail just incase something goes wrong.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Beastie

Leesa, I have worked for a boss that would never agree to or admit to anything over the phone...

He hated it when I would send the email saying "as per our phone conversation on the x day of x month of x year insert subject line".

There comes a point where you have to have a written trail just incase something goes wrong.

I am renowned for hanging onto to stuff for years. About 3 months ago I got rid of diaries from the '90's and early 2000's. I have printed out copies of emails from the 90's as well. All this was when I was in management roles. I now have a stack of emails saved for a whole range of reasons.

I also have saved some posts from people on forums (personal attack stuff, real personal).

Just call me Hansard

[Trevor 57]

oh, just curious, did Brett Sutton's email contain any 'smoking gun' revelations? Or was it just another MSM beat up?

Can't have been too much in it, all the MSM news ran as the main story about the horse racing this weekend and how Dan did this and Dan did that (Murdoch hounds are certainly on the trail)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_mSnAKWHZA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCxXP3R4uM8

[tweeked]

I actually really like it when a politician "Backflips". Nothing better than if you find out you were wrong changing your decision. So funnily enough I actually give Andrews a solid pass on the Cox Plate thing.

[wodahs]

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ening/12796606

[buggerlugs]

Is reaching zero Covid 19 even possible.......

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...ble3f/12798300

[Citroënbender]

That’s why I have consistently compared some Australian state policies/statements on CV to ideas about the road death toll. Despite it being a practically unattainable goal, strictures, penalties and haranguing are readily employed against the massed population.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by wodahs

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ening/12796606

I like Lindsay, he is a straight shooter, very community minded and very generous and an all round funny bloke - just a truckie

[Tickford.]

Anyone who attended Bathurst on the weekend, and all local residents are urged to get tested after traces of COVID-19 detected in sewerage in Bathurst.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...3-3bdeca414917

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/news/P...201021_03.aspx

I think 4000+ was the number of spectators in attendance. Did they really think they all would be COVID free? It was bound to happen.

[Tickford.]

And the northern suburbs of Melbourne is at it again!

Two schools have been closed for cleaning and 120 residents at a social housing block have been asked to self-isolate while health authorities get on top of an outbreak in Melbourne's northern suburbs.

The East Preston Islamic College has been closed for deep cleaning after it was revealed a student that was supposed to be self-isolating as a close contact had gone to school due to a misunderstanding.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...22-p567en.html

[Trevor 57]

I saw that this morning and just shook my head - is understanding English a problem?

[zipping]

Originally Posted by russellw

It's not like the decision to use private security was, in itself, a bad decision given the speed with which a solution had to be in place. Two other States did exactly the same and either had better security companies or were just plain lucky in not having similar issues.

Yes, Yes it was a bad decision in fact it was negligent given what they knew.

The Victorian government was well aware that the Victorian security industry was a mess.

One of its policies at the 2018 election was to hold an enquiry into the industry.

From the government:

In October 2018, the Premier, The Hon. Daniel Andrews, announced the Victorian Government would conduct a review of the private security industry. The aim is to:

raise industry standards
improve safety of employees and the community
ensure workers are paid properly and fairly.
The Review will look at the current licencing and regulatory framework, the operation of the Private Security Act 2004 and its associated regulations. We need to determine what reforms are appropriate to improve the safety and security of all Victorians.

It will consider:

the prerequisites that are needed to participate in the industry
the training of employees
how compliance is monitored and enforced
employment practices and how workplace laws are applied.
The Review will deliver its final report and recommendations to the Minister for Police and Emergency Services, the Treasurer and the Premier by December 2020.

With the above in mind the Labor government within an extremely short time frame around the 27th of March engaged a non-approved security firm with a 30 million contract to provide hotel security, whose previous years revenue was around 3 million.

Unified Security had to scale up around 20x - 30x in a very short time frame.

This is negligence. Red flags galore.

Pure and simple.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Yes you can...

Sutton was emailed about use of private security in hotel quarantine
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-2...aring/12788900


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

BUT, did he make the decision to use security guards - I am guessing not, so a witch hunt for no particular reason

So, you all have had a few days to digest Sutton's email and the subsequent media frenzy over it, so what is the verdict? Where is the smoking gun?

Based on the lack of follow up media on the MSM I am guessing they are full of **** and a beat-up as there was NOTHING in his email

People get all concerned about suicide deaths but think nothing of hounding people - hang your heads media and anyone who joined the frenzy

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by zipping

Yes, Yes it was a bad decision in fact it was negligent given what they knew.

The Victorian government was well aware that the Victorian security industry was a mess.

One of its policies at the 2018 election was to hold an enquiry into the industry.

From the government:

In October 2018, the Premier, The Hon. Daniel Andrews, announced the Victorian Government would conduct a review of the private security industry. The aim is to:

raise industry standards
improve safety of employees and the community
ensure workers are paid properly and fairly.
The Review will look at the current licencing and regulatory framework, the operation of the Private Security Act 2004 and its associated regulations. We need to determine what reforms are appropriate to improve the safety and security of all Victorians.

It will consider:

the prerequisites that are needed to participate in the industry
the training of employees
how compliance is monitored and enforced
employment practices and how workplace laws are applied.
The Review will deliver its final report and recommendations to the Minister for Police and Emergency Services, the Treasurer and the Premier by December 2020.

With the above in mind the Labor government within an extremely short time frame around the 27th of March engaged a non-approved security firm with a 30 million contract to provide hotel security, whose previous years revenue was around 3 million.

Unified Security had to scale up around 20x - 30x in a very short time frame.

This is negligence. Red flags galore.

Pure and simple.

did you hear the Counsel assisting say "creeping assumptions" - that is pretty accurate I reckon, not one, but a group of people 'assumed'

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

So, you all have had a few days to digest Sutton's email and the subsequent media frenzy over it, so what is the verdict? Where is the smoking gun?

Based on the lack of follow up media on the MSM I am guessing they are full of **** and a beat-up as there was NOTHING in his email

People get all concerned about suicide deaths but think nothing of hounding people - hang your heads media and anyone who joined the frenzy

Quarantine Inquiry is in recess Trev. But double up those buttons on your braces 'cause The Prof has 5 days left to respond to those email suppression revelations! Even-betting he never re-appears and may resign instead?

Getting exciting isn't it?

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT October 21st, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

15 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.298% while active cases drop to 1,392. NSW recorded 10 cases, WA & SA had 1 each with the balance in Victoria.

The Victorian State 14 day moving average is down to 6.79 with metro falling to 6.1 (10 unknown) and regional at 0.4 with no unknown cases (including today). Victoria reported 5 new cases for the last 24 hours.

25 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.308% and active cases rise to 56.

The UK had a new record 26,687 new cases yesterday, some 5k more than the previous high a day earlier. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 191 deaths.

Just over 62k new cases in the USA yesterday and 952 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.654% and active cases steady at to 32.3% with the raw numbers rising and still over 2.7M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences. Worth noting that today is already looking worse with >1k deaths.

Other notable points:
Global cases set a new daily high of 433,813 - 20k above the prior high;
Europe set a new daily case high of 193,398 - almost 40k more than yesterday;
The USA completes 128M, India 97M and Russia 55M tests;

Angola (289)
Lithuania (311)
Luxembourg (430)
Serbia (512) - the previous high on July 26th
Greece (865) - 30% above the high of yesterday
Azerbaijan (714)
Bosnia (926) - 27% above the previous high
Georgia (1,351)
Croatia (1,424) - 26% above the previous high
Bulgaria (1,472)
Slovenia (1,503) - 67% above the previous high
Armenia (1,836)
Austria (1,958)
Slovakia (2,202)
Jordan (2,648)
Romania (4,848) - 20% above the previous high
Switzerland (5,596) - 80% above the previous high
Iran (5,616)
Nepal (5,743)
Ukraine (6,719)
Netherlands (8,743)
Poland (10,040)
Germany (10,457) - 31% above the previous high
Czechia (14,969) - 25% above the previous high
Italy (15,199) - 39% above the previous high
Spain (16,973); and
the United Kingdom (26,687) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Quarantine Inquiry is in recess Trev. But double up those buttons on your braces 'cause The Prof has 5 days left to respond to those email suppression revelations! Even-betting he never re-appears and may resign instead?

come on, the media blood-hounds have had days to trawl over his email, same as you have and a big fat NOTHING!!!!!!

move on, nothing to see here

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Getting exciting isn't it?

no, no frenzy here

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Quarantine Inquiry is in recess Trev. But double up those buttons on your braces 'cause The Prof has 5 days left to respond to those email suppression revelations! Even-betting he never re-appears and may resign instead?

Getting exciting isn't it?

We are all being keyboard detectives at the moment but it does shed light on how difficult it is to conduct these investigations.

"Suppression" is an interesting term to use. Did he suppress (actively prevent) or did he just see that it wasn't necessary? Which is what he actually claimed. His original claim was that he wasn't aware of that specific info in the emails, it didn't "register" at the time given the thousands of emails he received. If that is true, then it makes total sense he wouldn't have thought those emails were relevant to the inquiry. No smoking gun. However, if it is found that he actively sought to stop those emails from being submitted, then he is in trouble. This is why we have a judge running the inquiry, not "journalists"

Meanwhile, insiders are screaming that Aged Care is still not up to scratch and that they are still exposed if there is another wave. The silence is deafening. Does anyone care?

I think its time for Dan to stop giving these daily pressers, and get these so called "journalists" to go do some real work.