Covid 19 -

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by russellw

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 12th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting except for the Victorian 14 day moving averages.

13 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.274% while active cases rise to 1,328. NSW recorded 5, WA & Queensland 3 each and SA recorded 1 case. Victoria reported no new cases for the last 24 hours for the 13th consecutive day.

3 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.256% and active cases rise to 53.

The UK had a new record 34,270 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 563 deaths.

Just over 144k new cases (a new record) in the USA yesterday and 1,479 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.310% and active cases rise to 35.6% with the raw numbers rising and now over 3.8M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 53M with the last 1M taking 1 day;
Global cases set a new daily high of 632,966, ~10k above the previous;
Europe passes 13M cases;
North America sets a new daily high of 157,900 (11/11);
The USA completes 163M, India 121M, Russia 66M, Italy 18M and Denmark 6M tests.

Latvia (533);
Norway (717);
Algeria (851) - the previous high on July 24th;
Belarus (1,098);
Moldova (1,331);
Croatia (3,082);
Georgia (3,120);
Greece (3,316) - 14% above the previous high;
Canada (5,516) - 19% above the previous high;
Morocco (6,195);
Austria (9,262) - 12% above the previous high;
Ukraine (11,057);
Germany (23,462);
United Kingdom (34,270) - 27% above the previous high;
the USA (144,289) on 11/11;

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

Originally Posted by Burnout

Hang on a minute; Biden said today that there were two hundred and twenty million thousand cases in the US of A...

was he quoting cases in the USofA all up when russellw is quoting todays cases ??

[George V]

Mmmmm,

We wonder why USA politics, views on COVID etc are so polarised and has many versions of truth & realities.

If last few pages are anything to go by, we are not too far from it either, it is only a mater of time.

Issue with Vic hotel quarantine in my opinion is – the whole thing got organized too quickly with too many out of their depth. Something got organized within a day or two, which was not perfect but was a starting point. It was not followed up and not made better at least during the following weeks even when they knew it was going pear shaped.

National cabinet decides that all arrivals will be quarantined on Friday 27 March at 12 noon and after two hrs, PM make the announcement to the effect that all oversees arrivals from next day noon will be in hotel quarantine.

Some idiots took it as a challenge and cobbled something together within a day to get to work. I am sure that they learnt their lesson. Next time, they will switch off your mobiles and go for a pub lunch. They should not have made those decisions outside their existing protocols to address perceived emergency and create something even worse. It is easy to make demands when you do not have any skin in the game.

When Deputy PM asked states to increase their quarantine places by 50 % in mid-September, by that time, states have got a lot wiser and response was somewhere between – “we are at capacity / full” to do your own thing at Christmas Island or use defence facilities”..


Long rant off.

Regards,
George V

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Yeah I do because you are so wrong. If you were right, our legal counsel wouldn't be spending half his time ensuring our processes are correct. We wouldn't be instructed by workcover that we have a responsibility to personally inspect our clients facilities and do risk assessments.

I don't know where you think it says it has to be their own premises, it says "A workplace". Not theirs....A ..... Chain of Responsibility.........your idea of only being responsible for your own workplace - that finished in the 90's

They contracted work out to be performed, at that point, it was legally their workplace, they had a duty of care to ensure that it was contracted out safely, and with oversight, especially due to the high risk that was so evident.

You can carry on all you want, you are wrong.

(Apart from the fact we know that these laws will not apply in a government situation, If it was private enterprise, it would absolutely on, and rightly so.)

goodness me, that is for YOUR workers, these weren't Andrews workers who died, really???? try to keep up

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

goodness me, that is for YOUR workers, these weren't Andrews workers who died, really???? try to keep up

My last one on this, as I realise you would see this very differently if it was a "Scomo and Co" initiative. Again, quoted from Worksafe Vic

"the duty of a person not to recklessly engage in conduct that may place another person at a workplace in danger of serious injury."

You don't have to work there. It doesn't have to be your worker. It is just "another person". It can be passengers on a crashed bus. It can be a contractor. It can be any other person affected by the workplace. A workplace can be a vehicle - recent proof - The tragic death of 4 police officers in Melbourne, the Manager of the Transport Company was charged with industrial manslaughter. Did his workers die? Were they at his workplace?

Another real life example involving contracting out (prior to IM laws, but the same OHS precedents apply.)

A job was contracted out to a person at a major retailer. When he went there he was pulling lengths out of a raised platform. Someone had from the retailer had previously removed the safety rail to make it easier to pull the lengths out (drop was about 1 meter). Contractor steps back and falls, breaking an ankle. The company contracting the worker to work somewhere else was found guilty of failure to provide a safe workplace, even though it was not their premises. $10,000 and recorded against the Director of that business. (the retailer received the same fine)

Anyway - on with Covid. I have a feeling you may be a Monty Python fan and just want another $5

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

they knew, the hotels should have called it out - there should have been far better oversight from who-ever made the cal to use security guards. Don't forget NSW & QLD also used security guards

The whole hoo haa about using security guards is a joke.

As if they were not qualified or not able to do the job?

What did they need to do exactly - keep people in their rooms, stop people going in and out.

Essentially they just needed bodies with eyes on site that could keep awake while bored out of their brains doing essentially nothing.

The media made a big deal about one person being hired over Twitter or via text message? Ohhh diddums - fancy using Social Media to find work??

Perhaps they should have used police officers in the hotels and put security guards at the borders and on the beat?

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 13th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

3 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.272% while active cases drop to 1,327. NSW & Queensland recorded 1 case each and the NT recorded 5 cases. Victoria reported no new cases for the last 24 hours for the 13th consecutive day.

4 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.253% and active cases remain at 53.

The UK had a much lower 26,501 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 376 deaths.

Just over 170k new cases (a new record) in the USA yesterday and 1,182 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.285% and active cases rise to 35.9% with the raw numbers rising and now over 3.9M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global deaths pass 1.3M with the last 50k taking only 5 days;
Global cases set a new daily high of 645,646;
The USA passes 11M cases;
North America passes 13M cases;
North America sets a new daily high of 175,919 (12/11);
The USA completes 164M, India 123M, Russia 67M, Germany 25M, Israel 5M and Kuwait 1M tests.

Algeria (867);
Belarus (1,167);
Lithuania (2,066);
Georgia (3,473);
Indonesia (5,444) - 12% above the previous high;
Sweden (5,764) on 11/11;
Austria (9,586);
Ukraine (11,787);
Russia (21,893);
Italy (40,902); and
the USA (170,392) on 12/11;

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by tweeked

My last one on this, as I realise you would see this very differently if it was a "Scomo and Co" initiative. Again, quoted from Worksafe Vic

"the duty of a person not to recklessly engage in conduct that may place another person at a workplace in danger of serious injury."

You don't have to work there. It doesn't have to be your worker. It is just "another person". It can be passengers on a crashed bus. It can be a contractor. It can be any other person affected by the workplace. A workplace can be a vehicle - recent proof - The tragic death of 4 police officers in Melbourne, the Manager of the Transport Company was charged with industrial manslaughter. Did his workers die? Were they at his workplace?

Another real life example involving contracting out (prior to IM laws, but the same OHS precedents apply.)

A job was contracted out to a person at a major retailer. When he went there he was pulling lengths out of a raised platform. Someone had from the retailer had previously removed the safety rail to make it easier to pull the lengths out (drop was about 1 meter). Contractor steps back and falls, breaking an ankle. The company contracting the worker to work somewhere else was found guilty of failure to provide a safe workplace, even though it was not their premises. $10,000 and recorded against the Director of that business. (the retailer received the same fine)

Anyway - on with Covid. I have a feeling you may be a Monty Python fan and just want another $5

i know you dont want to go on about this but how does Bunnings get away with it ?
as a delivery you and their workers have to abide by all safety but as a general public person you and them dont
classic situation
i go to bunnings to make a delivery im not allowed on/off site with out my load secured nor am i allowed to be anywhere but a safe zone whilst the do anything
i go to bunnings as joe public and i dont have to worry leaving their gated premise with secured freight as long as ive paid for it nor are they concerned about safe distance between me and their in house stock replenishment forks

[PHANTMXR6]

Russ, can you explain the math please?

3 new cases for Australia, yet NSW and Qld 1 each and 5 in the NT equals 7?

[GasoLane]

Could I just remind everyone that this is not a Worksafe or OH&S thread.

If you think this topic justifies it's own thread please start one, any further comments about worksites that are not Covid related will be deleted.

[russellw]

Interestingly, the case mortality rates are starting to even up between the Continents with Africa, Europe and Oceania all very close; North & South America about 15% higher and Asia the lowest with under 2%.



The global case growth rate isn't showing any sign of improvement thanks to the USA and large parts of Europe:



.. while the death rate is getting worse:



The USA case trends predictor is looking terrible and is now above the worst of the two trend lines with the potential to reach 16M by mid January.



The mortality trend is now above the lower of the two trends and on target to reach 300k by mid January.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

Russ, can you explain the math please?

3 new cases for Australia, yet NSW and Qld 1 each and 5 in the NT equals 7?

Two different sources of data that have different closing times. Over any 3 day period they equalise out.

[russellw]

The final charts for today look at the number of days since selected countries had their highest daily case numbers.

Starting with Europe, none of the 33 countries we watch have had longer than 20 days since their highest daily case number and 22 of them had their peak number in the last week.



It's a lot better for Asia with only 7 of the 31 targeted countries recording their peak in the last 7 days and 6 of them having had more than 150 days since that peak.



Africa is also not too bad with 6 of the 18 countries having their peak inside the last 20 days and 8 having more than 100 days elapsed.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by wodahs

i know you dont want to go on about this but how does Bunnings get away with it ?
as a delivery you and their workers have to abide by all safety but as a general public person you and them dont
classic situation
i go to bunnings to make a delivery im not allowed on/off site with out my load secured nor am i allowed to be anywhere but a safe zone whilst the do anything
i go to bunnings as joe public and i dont have to worry leaving their gated premise with secured freight as long as ive paid for it nor are they concerned about safe distance between me and their in house stock replenishment forks

By OHS laws and road laws you the public are responsible for securing your own load, you take responsibility once load is in your possession.

Cheers.

PS: Sorry Gasoline did not see your comment.

[tweeked]

The US figures are interesting too as they don't show a huge winter/summer difference.

I fear the first year is just gradual seeding, the second winter is the one to watch.

[Citroënbender]

My first experience with the QR code check in yesterday night.

It directed me to a non-unique webpage, without testing the impression was a bot could spam it with massive numbers of submissions. I also wondered how securely the data was held.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

My first experience with the QR code check in yesterday night.

It directed me to a non-unique webpage, without testing the impression was a bot could spam it with massive numbers of submissions. I also wondered how securely the data was held.

So....if you believe the Victorian government, one of the key reasons for delays in rolling out QR code in Vic has been tightening up on security and data privacy. They are adapting the "out of box" software so that data can ONLY be used for Covid tracing purposes, and nothing else. Not sure what this implies on other states

Where did you use it?

[Citroënbender]

“Absolute Thai” in Hornsby, NSW.

Here’s the link as brought up by the QR code scanner? 18 month old phone with latest updates, unlikely a hardware glitch at my end.

https://absolutethaigroup.com.au/mem...r-register-wl/

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

“Absolute Thai” in Hornsby, NSW.

Sorry off topic, CB if you get a chance, Chat Thai in Sydney is great.
........resume normal transmission, back to covid.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

“Absolute Thai” in Hornsby, NSW.

Here’s the link as brought up by the QR code scanner? 18 month old phone with latest updates, unlikely a hardware glitch at my end.

https://absolutethaigroup.com.au/mem...r-register-wl/

Hmmmmm I'd like to see the data flow. Does the data go back to a central database held by the gov, or is it held by the shop? First red flag for me is that the page is not SSL. Your name, phone and email makes up personal data, so already they have failed to meet the Privacy Act principles .

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tweeked

My last one on this, as I realise you would see this very differently if it was a "Scomo and Co" initiative. Again, quoted from Worksafe Vic

"the duty of a person not to recklessly engage in conduct that may place another person at a workplace in danger of serious injury."

You don't have to work there. It doesn't have to be your worker. It is just "another person". It can be passengers on a crashed bus. It can be a contractor. It can be any other person affected by the workplace. A workplace can be a vehicle - recent proof - The tragic death of 4 police officers in Melbourne, the Manager of the Transport Company was charged with industrial manslaughter. Did his workers die? Were they at his workplace?

Another real life example involving contracting out (prior to IM laws, but the same OHS precedents apply.)

A job was contracted out to a person at a major retailer. When he went there he was pulling lengths out of a raised platform. Someone had from the retailer had previously removed the safety rail to make it easier to pull the lengths out (drop was about 1 meter). Contractor steps back and falls, breaking an ankle. The company contracting the worker to work somewhere else was found guilty of failure to provide a safe workplace, even though it was not their premises. $10,000 and recorded against the Director of that business. (the retailer received the same fine)

Anyway - on with Covid. I have a feeling you may be a Monty Python fan and just want another $5

Section32 quote and again it relates to workplaces. You are totally misreading the intent of the law. Were the people who died in their workplaces? Yes they were in others workplaces, but you draw a very very long bow. However I will mention your stupid scenario with a mate who is a WorkSafe Inspector and get their take on your outlandish interpretation

Just get over it, Andrews or his ministry will NOT be charged with manslaughter FFS

Liberal federally tried this garbage with the 'pink batts' thing and it didn't work, but I guess you know better

So do we take John Howard to court for the deaths of our diggers in Iraq and Afghanistan? - can you see how ridiculous you are getting? Bob Menzies for WWII, what about John Gorton for Vietnam? They deliberately sent people to their death, so Section 39A to 39G Workplace Manslaughter directly relates the them (according to your logic)

[GasoLane]

Does anyone else think that it's ironic that the Gov Covid App got shouted down yet people are happy to use the Q code.

(But as I'm not far from the bottom of the IT ladder perhaps I'm missing something.)

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Does anyone else think that it's ironic that the Gov Covid App got shouted down yet people are happy to use the Q code.

(But as I'm not far from the bottom of the IT ladder perhaps I'm missing something.)

Comes down to trust and perception. People don't trust the government they elected, but they trust the local shop Ultimately that is what it comes down to.

I reckon if the state governments issued their own CV tracing app, the uptake would at least double.

[Citroënbender]

I figured up to the point of submitting, I could close the window and use pen/paper as also available. The email address is not mandatory on the form I linked, and I didn’t provide it.

Nothing I provided isn’t on the public register as a sole trader already, and I probably won’t make a habit of using it. But as a long-term cynic I thought worth having a crack. All the ra-ra had either been from the cheer squad or bunkerheads.

The question I felt it lacked was “number of people in group” - a handy cross-checking tool.

And yes, the openness of the form is a big fail!

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

(But as I'm not far from the bottom of the IT ladder perhaps I'm missing something.)

Ask Kmav.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Comes down to trust and perception. People don't trust the government they elected, but they trust the local shop Ultimately that is what it comes down to.

Which it seems was a mistake in some places.

A little while ago I believe that some people in Syd were complaining that after doing the Q code thing they were getting spammed by some establishments.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Does anyone else think that it's ironic that the Gov Covid App got shouted down yet people are happy to use the Q code.

(But as I'm not far from the bottom of the IT ladder perhaps I'm missing something.)

Not even sure how this works, they are more pen and paper here which brings up the subject of why everyone handles the same pen to write down their details. We have been taking our own pens or ask the waiter/waitress to write down our details.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Not even sure how this works, they are more pen and paper here which brings up the subject of why everyone handles the same pen to write down their details. We have been taking our own pens or ask the waiter/waitress to write down our details.

That's all my wife uses in her Hair Salon...time/name/phone number.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

That's all my wife uses in her Hair Salon...time/name/phone number.

Yeah but how many people handle the same pen.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 14th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

9 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.273% while active cases rise to 1,331. NSW recorded 4 cases and SA recorded 3 cases.

3 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.251% and active cases rise to 55.

The UK had a slightly higher 26,860 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 462 deaths.

Just over 188k new cases (a new record) in the USA yesterday and 1,416 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.259% and active cases rise to 36.1% with the raw numbers rising and now over 3.9M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 54M with the last 1M taking 2 days;
Global cases set a new daily high of 660,798 (13/11);
The USA passes 250k deaths;
North America sets a new daily high of 202,961 (13/11);
The USA completes 166M, India 124M, Turkey 16M and Indonesia 5M tests.

Belarus (1,248) - the 5th consecutive day;
Moldova (1,411);
Azerbaijan (1,849);
Georgia (3,504);
Serbia (3,822);
Ukraine (12,524);
Russia (22,702); and
the USA (188,197) on 13/11;

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Nothing I provided isn’t on the public register as a sole trader already, and I probably won’t make a habit of using it. But as a long-term cynic I thought worth having a crack. All the ra-ra had either been from the cheer squad or bunkerheads.

Yep its odd. You can get names, addresses and phone numbers off the whitepages, but organisations still have to spend money to keep it "reasonably" secure. But that is what the Act requires