Major Ford announcement

[wulos]

GT-GTS - perhaps we should apply the OPPOSITE logic, and say that Holden's announcement of a new model at such a 'tragic' time in Ford's Australian history is completely inappropriate. Perhaps they should put their release back until 2017 - a year or so after Ford manufacturing has died, to allow ALL Australians to acknowledge the fact that Australian car manufacturing has changed. Perhaps doing so would increase sales of your favoured brand?

Look at the BIGGER picture here - Is it NOT getting on towards the end of a financial reporting period?? There are a LOT of companies announcing their profit / loss estimates for the year. Are they nasty / despicable companies also? or just Ford??

FWIW - I sincerely hope that your commodore party goes off without a hitch, and that somehow Holden manage to avoid what in looking to be an inevitable path for ALL Aus car manufacturing.

[JC260]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

If you mean there's rumours that it will 'replace' the falcon on sale in australia, my opinion is:
1. It isn't a direct replacement because it is a coupe/convertible. Something like the fusion is more similar. Heck, they might even just leave the mondeo as the sedan offering.
2. It may be offered as a performance model, but I'd expect it to be a lot more expensive than the falcon performance models.
3. I don't think ford make them in RHD. Last time they brought the mustang out and converted it to RHD it was expensive and wasn't a big seller. It would be hard to convert them if they don't have local factories.

Pretty sure Ford US have already said the 2016 Mustang will available in both left and right hand drive.

[tweeked]

Be interesting to watch the sales mix of Falcons over the next few years. My tip - anything that may become collectable - FPV's and high level G Series - will sell more than currently, but how they are going to sell any base models eludes me. The fate of the 380 after the announcement of Mitsi's pulling out, and with the 380's "appliance" reputation is too familiar to me.

The buying public that have little knowledge on the industry that buy base models will fear "no spare parts" and stay away in droves - Whereas enthusiants who know better will want one of the last of the lines.

[2011G6E]

I believe one of the biggest problems is that the opposition...even from within Ford...has become too good for people to "automatically" move towards a Falcon.
When we first bought our G6E, we took it back to get a towbar fitted. The loan car they gave us was a diesel Mondeo, one of the higher models. After half a day with it, the wife and I were having serious misgivings about shelling out for the Falcon. A friend at work has a Mondeo Titanium top of the line XR5 with all the fruit...what an amazing car that thing is!

In "the old days" stuff from overseas and even lower end models in the local Ford (and Holden) line up were cheap, and felt it. The factory concentrated on Falcons and they were the "quality" item in the line up.

Now the choices are vast, wide, and even low priced cars in the line up are extremely well equipped and sharply priced. Combine that with a public who are more dollar-aware and always on the look out for a bargain, and who can see they get a wide range of toys for a lower price, and the writing is on the wall.
The only way something like the Falcon could survive is to go back to the bad old days and artificially keep other models in poverty-pack spec (and somehow go back to the bad old days of cramped interiors in smaller cars) to drive people into better equipped Falcons.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

no wonder Falcon and Terry didn't sell, with people like you tasked with doing so

Glad someone said it...

[GT-GTF]

Originally Posted by wulos

GT-GTS - perhaps we should apply the OPPOSITE logic, and say that Holden's announcement of a new model at such a 'tragic' time in Ford's Australian history is completely inappropriate. Perhaps they should put their release back until 2017 - a year or so after Ford manufacturing has died, to allow ALL Australians to acknowledge the fact that Australian car manufacturing has changed. Perhaps doing so would increase sales of your favoured brand?

Look at the BIGGER picture here - Is it NOT getting on towards the end of a financial reporting period?? There are a LOT of companies announcing their profit / loss estimates for the year. Are they nasty / despicable companies also? or just Ford??

FWIW - I sincerely hope that your commodore party goes off without a hitch, and that somehow Holden manage to avoid what in looking to be an inevitable path for ALL Aus car manufacturing.

1. The Holden commodore launch was already underway when Ford announced that it would be making an annoucement.

2. Would you expect Holden to cancel a launch when the launch has already commenced and the media was standing in front of Holden's execs?

3. Ford is my favoured brand. I currently own 5 Australian built Fords. My daily driver is a BF Wagon. I do not currently own any Holdens.

4. Ford could have delayed announcing its financial reports by a day or three. It called an ad hoc press conference to make the announcement that it was killing Ford Australian manufacturing with 3 hours notice.

5. I am not having a commodore party. The party for the commodore was held yesterday morning. I havent seen any media reporting on it. They have been too busy dealing with Ford's announcement. Coincidence?

6. The bigger picture here is what Ford's announcement signposts for the future of our country and manufacturing in our country. In my original post on this thread I said that was the most disappointing aspect of the announcement.

[Swedishmoose]

Hi there....


well...I think before we all start pointing fingers at each other and go balistic maybe we can talk about the new opportunities for Ford and maybe we find some people from this Forum or clubs who could put forward some usable thoughts to Ford Australia.


The decision seems to be final and I give Ford lots of credit to give all workers more than 3 years to find a new "working home".
We also have to understand, that the decision was made overseas because at the end, Ford is an american corporation.

No single party or organisation can be blamed for what has been announced yesterday.

Federal governments and state governments have spent money but maybe in a insufficient way.
Furthermore there are ways to push a currency down 9our Dollar), if it harms the national economy. But it seems that this has never been an option.

The globalised free markets are also poison for a little market like Australia. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Thailand was allowed to export Fiestas, Focuses and Rangers within the FTA (free trade agreement) signed between Thailand and Australia. But Ford Australia all of a sudden wasn't allowed to export our Territory to Thailand anymore because the Thai government changed their mind (although the FTA was already signed).
I simply call it protectionism and in these hard times I do not understand why Australia is still advocating the free markets although Australia never benefits from it on such a scale compared to other nations.
Unions might have been a little bit too greedy. In hard times workers should accept lower wages (if possible) in order to get the regular wage again, once things have improved.
If it cost Ford half as much to produce a car in Europe (Germany, UK, Genk in Belgium is about to get closed as well) that is seriously worrying. Especially Germany is a high wage and high tax country. They had the economies of scale because they were allowed to export their cars into different markets (even to the US).

Additionally Ford AUS didn't do anything to promote the excellent 4 pot Ecoboost engine for price concious families. The Diesel engine in the Territory could also have been fitted in a Falcon as a powerful (high torque) but economical fleet car.

On top of that they let go of V8SC and didn't do much there either. Ford has 6 cars in the series. Mercedes 3 , Nissan 4 and Holden 15.
Ford, Nissan and Merc together add up to 13 which is stimm less than Holdens' 15.

As you can see..many many many wrong decisions an all levels led to this.

However, i think there are two major reasons why it went downhills:

1.
Ford Australia couldn't sell cars abroad because of the lack of export opportunities which Detroit could have given to Ford AUS. As I mentioned in an earlier post....my brother lives overseas and loves the Falcon and he was wondering why Ford didn't bring the Falcon to Europe

2.
Ford couldn't sell enough cars on the domestic market because of the high Aussie Dollar which makes imported cars a lot cheaper. On top of that the Aussie market is very tiny compared to other markets but has so many other brands competing for customers. And there are NO bad cars anymore nowadays. Every car has advantages and disadvantages but no car is really bad.

Now...what can we do?

I thought about it a lot to be honest although I don't even work for Ford..I only own a 13 year old AU Falcon (which my family loves....thanks to all Ford employees who made that car by the way).

The R&D department will remain in Australia.

How about Ford transforms FPR into something similar to f.ex McLaren

How about Ford transforms FPV into something similar to what AMG is for Mercedes-Benz, Abarth to Fiat, Gordini to Renault etc.

They could be the "in house" tuning business for ALL Fords that have ever been sold in Australia which automatically includes all Australian Fords which have ever been made in Australia but also the imported Ford models.

From body parts, performance engines, suspension updates etc. under the FPV brand.


Maybe we manage to get the tooling from Ford Australia in order to be able to manufacture a Falcon/Territory on a small scale although, I admit, thats a bit over the edge.


We should encourage Biante and Carlectables to ensure that we can at least buy ALLL Australian made Fords at least as model cars in ALL scales.

We should encourage book writer, film directors to work through the history of this icon and make books and films.

I can't come up with more for now but hey...we will not be able to reverse the decision and once the factories in broadmeadows and Geelong are closed, they will most likely stay closed.
Even if there was a higher demand for Fords in Australia again one day, it would always be cheaper to extend the capacity in an existing plant somewhere arround the world (most likely Asia) instead of reactivating Broadmeadows and Geelong.

However, I strongly hope, that Broadmeadows will not be torn down and other manufacturing businesses can use the location. Ford Australia could even rent them out.

Geelong should become a museum for Ford because the factory is as far as I know the oldest where everything started about 90 years ago.


What do you guys think?

i know some of you might be grumpy at me because I am already talking about what could happen years ahead and it might sound that yesterdays' decision didn't shock me at all.

I am with every single worker and my thoughts are with them.....but I also would like to give impulses or trails of thought so we can come up with something. I don't have the power and influence to communicate that to Ford Australia but some of you might.


Anyhow....my 2 cents...


cheers...

The Moose

[mik]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

Exactly right. This is what had me scratching my head as well, as it appears that it's really a convenient loss to report in order to add weight to (or provide the means for) Detroit justifying pulling the plug on the Australian factories. Having seen the machinations of big business from the inside this would have been one of the 'strategies' kicked around the boardroom tables.

I am just not convinced there wasn't a way to return things back to profitability, particularly by leveraging from the One-Ford program (for all of the new tech), relying on the solid foundation of the FG/FH and for Detroit to allow an export program for the vehicles produced. Sure there would be some pain in all of this but that is the same for all businesses.

Some things are worth fighting the fight for as that is the Australian way.

Just a pity I'm not a billionaire or I'd buy both factories myself and try to figure out a way to keep them running. Is anyone out there friends with one?

Your probably right, if they really wanted to they probably could have put falcon up to no.1 , but you have look at what it would cost, there's just no getting past it is cheaper to build cars in other parts of the world, you also have to put into perspective most of the competition is making cheaper to manufacture front wheel drives, I believe in the not too distant future commodore is going front wheel drive,
and let's be clear , companies go front wheel drive because they are cheap to make and there is more dollars in it for them, this is a distinct advantage for them, anyone in the cut throat world of over supplied motor cars has to try and get an edge, importing. A cheap front wheel drive into australia is far easier than building a conventional layout car in australia sadly.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

no wonder Falcon and Terry didn't sell, with people like you tasked with doing so

Exactly. The Ford dealer network can take their fair share of the blame for the demise of the Falcon. Years of lousy service to customers does have an impact.

Somehow I doubt they will even recognise their part in the Falcons demise. Watch this space as they all scratch their collective heads wondering why Fords new imports to replace Falcon aren't selling that well, even though they are reviewed well in the press. Won't ever occur its them that is the problem.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Wretched

hmm interesting opinion piece written here.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...k3mr.html#poll

It does have merit to it, that Ford did nothing to expand their business, to increase market share and to help alleviate the sliding sales.



What? Are you nuts, union popularity is on the fall, their bullish tactics are not in favor with much of the public.
That their actions have been attributed to much of the unrest within the manufacturing industry of late.
I don't want to go into it all but if they do what you propose I can almost guarantee you that would be the death of unions in AU.

Sorry to have offended you Wretched, it was an opinion based on what worked in the US when their maufacturing was heading offshore. That is why the Camaro is built by GM in North America and not by GMHA who designed and built the concept pattern vehicle. The main reson unions got on the nose here, was due to continual pay rise pushes which have attributed to business's clsoing down.

Now they would be seen as trying to prevent job losses and would get support from the average worker around Australia, maybe not management who have salary protection at most companies now.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

Exactly right. This is what had me scratching my head as well, as it appears that it's really a convenient loss to report in order to add weight to (or provide the means for) Detroit justifying pulling the plug on the Australian factories. Having seen the machinations of big business from the inside this would have been one of the 'strategies' kicked around the boardroom tables.

I am just not convinced there wasn't a way to return things back to profitability, particularly by leveraging from the One-Ford program (for all of the new tech), relying on the solid foundation of the FG/FH and for Detroit to allow an export program for the vehicles produced. Sure there would be some pain in all of this but that is the same for all businesses.

Some things are worth fighting the fight for as that is the Australian way.

Just a pity I'm not a billionaire or I'd buy both factories myself and try to figure out a way to keep them running. Is anyone out there friends with one?

Do you think that Ross Palmer might be interested ?

[AG3]

Originally Posted by joeyy17

Rumours of Mustang to overtake once Falcon is gone have risen on the internet. Peoples opinions?

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

3. I don't think ford make them in RHD. Last time they brought the mustang out and converted it to RHD it was expensive and wasn't a big seller. It would be hard to convert them if they don't have local factories.

Ford announced that the next Mustang (50th anniversary) will be a global model. That means there will be a RHD version.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#axzz2UAmR7byj

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

no wonder Falcon and Terry didn't sell, with people like you tasked with doing so

Lol, I can't force people to buy cars they don't want. Especially if the inquiry isn't there. If you can do better, come take my job. Please.

Guess what people, not everyone who buys cars is brand and australian "loyal"

Unfortunately it's the truth. Ford will be moving on to bigger and better things.


Then again, i'm young. I have different views to most people here which is quite obvious.

[AG3]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I believe one of the biggest problems is that the opposition...even from within Ford...has become too good for people to "automatically" move towards a Falcon.
When we first bought our G6E, we took it back to get a towbar fitted. The loan car they gave us was a diesel Mondeo, one of the higher models. After half a day with it, the wife and I were having serious misgivings about shelling out for the Falcon. A friend at work has a Mondeo Titanium top of the line XR5 with all the fruit...what an amazing car that thing is!

In "the old days" stuff from overseas and even lower end models in the local Ford (and Holden) line up were cheap, and felt it. The factory concentrated on Falcons and they were the "quality" item in the line up.

The Ford Mondeo is Ford's flagship car in Europe, I guess that explains why smaller "imported" Fords are no longer cheap.
In the old days, the "then smaller" Mondeo sat below Europe's large RWD flagship model, the Scorpio... before that it was the Telstar, a rebadged Mazda offered in Asia-Pacific markets.

[Swedishmoose]

Originally Posted by max_torq

Not having a go at you personally, but I hope you guys are just as sympathetic to the 12000 public servants in canberra that Abbott and Co are threatening to fire... You don't think that will have a similar effect.

nah mate....I hear you...

but to be honest...liberals, labour.....its all the same.

If you think about it, we live in a global dictatorship of multinational corporations. We can only waddle to the poll and decide which group of lobbyists can have a go. The politicians are just the puppets that execute.

And to be honest, as long as a worker is always a COST and not an ASSET, businesses are quite happy to get rid of expensive labour as long as they can keep productivity up in other ways and profits growing.

It is a shame.


The Moose

[wulos]

Originally Posted by GT-GTS

1. The Holden commodore launch was already underway when Ford announced that it would be making an annoucement.

2. Would you expect Holden to cancel a launch when the launch has already commenced and the media was standing in front of Holden's execs?

3. Ford is my favoured brand. I currently own 5 Australian built Fords. My daily driver is a BF Wagon. I do not currently own any Holdens.

4. Ford could have delayed announcing its financial reports by a day or three. It called an ad hoc press conference to make the announcement that it was killing Ford Australian manufacturing with 3 hours notice.

5. I am not having a commodore party. The party for the commodore was held yesterday morning. I havent seen any media reporting on it. They have been too busy dealing with Ford's announcement. Coincidence?

6. The bigger picture here is what Ford's announcement signposts for the future of our country and manufacturing in our country. In my original post on this thread I said that was the most disappointing aspect of the announcement.

You are right - the launch of the VF has been ongoing for at LEAST the last 6 months. It is practically the ONLY car that has been reported on with any real frequency in that time. Without blaming the media, perhaps that is part of the problem??

Do you truly believe that the media could drop everything, abandoning a vehicle launch, to race off and report on a 3 hour 'ad hoc' media conference and completely abandon Holden execs that were already standing in front of them???

The official release date for the VF according to the information I have is June 1.

Take another read of what has been posted. You labelled the actions, the announcement, & the timing not just as disappointing, but as despicable.

[lilmattie]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Eh, it's been coming for a while. Honestly, they've gone from over 500 vehicles produced per day down to 148.
I have 27 cars on the board this month. 1 falcon sedan, 1 falcon ute and 4 territories. They aren't selling. There's more technology in a trend focus..

I vote for just cutting it completely, why poor more money into a failing industry. The age old argument of "imports are crap" isn't even remotely plausableanymore. I have just as many customers back with warranty issues on Aus vehicles as i do on imports.

Bring on the Fusion & Mustang. Ranger single cab can take over falcon ute. Ranger wagon (lol when it turns up) can take over territory and give us a real 4x4.

Bogans wanting 4 doors will have to get used to an AWD ecoboost that will probably outperform the current XR's anyway.

Congratulations.. you've just succeeded in alienating yourself and insulting everyone who has ever purchased a Falcon, bar the hardtops/coupes. The Falcon was the flagship for FoA for many years, so it deserves the high profile that it has. Give it the respect it deserves and try not to call us bogans for enjoying an awesome car.

[TheSneakiness]

Been 24 hours since I found out about it.

I've never wanted a Falcon more in my life. Especially considering how much I found out a 135,000km service is on the Paj...

[Kable72]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Been 24 hours since I found out about it.

I've never wanted a Falcon more in my life. Especially considering how much I found out a 135,000km service is on the Paj...

It's not too late!

[irish2]

Originally Posted by GT-GTS

1. The Holden commodore launch was already underway when Ford announced that it would be making an annoucement.

2. Would you expect Holden to cancel a launch when the launch has already commenced and the media was standing in front of Holden's execs?

3. Ford is my favoured brand. I currently own 5 Australian built Fords. My daily driver is a BF Wagon. I do not currently own any Holdens.

4. Ford could have delayed announcing its financial reports by a day or three. It called an ad hoc press conference to make the announcement that it was killing Ford Australian manufacturing with 3 hours notice.

5. I am not having a commodore party. The party for the commodore was held yesterday morning. I havent seen any media reporting on it. They have been too busy dealing with Ford's announcement. Coincidence?

6. The bigger picture here is what Ford's announcement signposts for the future of our country and manufacturing in our country. In my original post on this thread I said that was the most disappointing aspect of the announcement.

If you read the article is states that Ford Australia were told about their impending closure on Wednesday 22/5/13. One day before the information was released to the public. The head office would not have known/cared what other automotive related media announcements were planned for the next day. I'm sure the Ford Australia execs did not want to be sitting on such a big secret for too long either, for fear of it leaking.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by lilmattie

Congratulations.. you've just succeeded in alienating yourself and insulting everyone who has ever purchased a Falcon, bar the hardtops/coupes. The Falcon was the flagship for FoA for many years, so it deserves the high profile that it has. Give it the respect it deserves and try not to call us bogans for enjoying an awesome car.

But you guys don't realize it's not really the flagship.. Honestly, take a Mondeo for a drive. You'll be shocked.

Yes, the Falcon is an awesome car. The territory is better imo. BUT, the market for them is slowly dieing. Remember, not everyone is on fordforums and lives and breathes ford. Falcon sales have been declining on vfacts for a while. Territory was keeping the average afloat.

As for insulting and alienating? Too much pride being thrown around in here.. I've had my fun in a 494rwhp falcon ute and moved on.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by Kable72

It's not too late!

I've just gotta convince the minister of finance.

FYI I'm no stranger to Falcons, this is this first car I've owned that isn't a Falcon.

[lilmattie]

I used past tense for the Falcon being the flagship.

I understand that all things come to an end and there will probably not ever be another.

No doubt there are many products that are better than the Falcon, however - the pride that gets thrown around comes from having a car model with a longstanding history. Many AFF members have been involved with Ford and Falcons for most of their lives. There is nothing wrong with being proud of a product that was produced in your country which has brought enjoyment to countless people over it's lifetime.

The insult was in your last line which made the supposition that only bogans drive 4 door sedans..

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by lilmattie

I used past tense for the Falcon being the flagship.

I understand that all things come to an end and there will probably not ever be another.

No doubt there are many products that are better than the Falcon, however - the pride that gets thrown around comes from having a car model with a longstanding history. Many AFF members have been involved with Ford and Falcons for most of their lives.

The insult in your last line which made the supposition that only bogans drive 4 door sedans..

Yeah, understandable. I'm a bogan and i drive a coupe.

[Kable72]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I've just gotta convince the minister of finance.

FYI I'm no stranger to Falcons, this is this first car I've owned that isn't a Falcon.

Soften her up with some flowers and breakfast in bed and then while she is distracted go sign the paperwork.

Or play the hurt man card and say "they're going to be gone and I want to do my part as a proper send off."

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by GT-GTS

1. The Holden commodore launch was already underway when Ford announced that it would be making an annoucement.

2. Would you expect Holden to cancel a launch when the launch has already commenced and the media was standing in front of Holden's execs?

If Ford's announcement of an announcement can interrupt a launch of a launch then surely they can announce another launch after the announcements are done.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

If Ford's announcement of an announcement can interrupt a launch of a launch then surely they can announce another launch after the announcements are done.

Thinking about this.......
I would think that Ford's announcement MIGHT benefit Holden much more than Holden's own announcement. In fact - it was probably Holden's best marketing and advertising campaign to date......and they didn't have to pay a cent for it......

[2011G6E]

Yes well...since the partial privatisation of the railways here in Queensland, we've noticed a explosion in middle management. The station used to run quite nicely out here with one superintendant, three co-ordinators, and then all the drivers. Now we have one head guy (until very recently we had two), half a dozen supervisors (down from ten or so), and various hangers-on that "run things". The numbers increased, then dropped back a bit...but still way more guys than are actually needed to run things here.

It's not just the public service that over-staffs things...

But back to Ford and the Falcon...does anyone think they might actually start advertising deals to try and shift a few more Falcons, or even the apparently more popular Territory...?

[TMC]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Exactly. The Ford dealer network can take their fair share of the blame for the demise of the Falcon. Years of lousy service to customers does have an impact.

Somehow I doubt they will even recognise their part in the Falcons demise. Watch this space as they all scratch their collective heads wondering why Fords new imports to replace Falcon aren't selling that well, even though they are reviewed well in the press. Won't ever occur its them that is the problem.

Totally agree. I wish there was some way to get rid of Ford dealers and keep the Falcon. Maybe buy the car on the internet directly from the factory and bypass the whole "dealer experience". With Ford dealers it's a case of "with friends like this who needs enemies". It wouldn't matter what car Ford dish up now. If you don't sort the dealers out pretty soon, just pack the whole operation up and go back to Dearborn.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Lol, I can't force people to buy cars they don't want. Especially if the inquiry isn't there. If you can do better, come take my job. Please.

Guess what people, not everyone who buys cars is brand and australian "loyal"

Unfortunately it's the truth. Ford will be moving on to bigger and better things.


Then again, i'm young. I have different views to most people here which is quite obvious.

A good salesman should be able to sell ice to eskimos.

Although not everyone would want to buy a Falcon or Territory, if it looks like that car would suit them for whatever reason, your job is to convince them of that fact. That's what your paid for.

Your attitude speaks volumes.