FG X, The Last EVER Falcon - Picture & Discussion Thread - Page 282

xr8territory · 26-08-2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8UTE

Personally I would have been more than happy with the 315 in the ute. It would still be a XR8 Ute which I am guessing is what the Falcon ute guys are wanting. I know it's been said that V8 utes havn't been selling but this last Falcon offering a XR8 may have seen better sales. It's still offering the Ford faithful what some are wanting too.
I know I'm wasting my time but I would give my left nut for one. Hell I'm not using it much lately so maybe I can head into Ford HQ and stick it on their counter. Take my leftie and make me a ute dammit.

Could you please give them both your nut's and get me a Ute whilst you are there.

steve.zissou · 26-08-2014, 01:37 PM

yeah - I would have gone a FGX xr8 ute (already have a fg turbo)

As for durability, i am not sure about that. My FG ute (manual) had 700nm from 70,000 km with a tune and from 140,000km it has had over 900nm (400-450rwkw). its now over 250,000km and its still going strong (and it gets worked hard and often carries a lot and tows even more).

I would say its a stronger more reliable package than the sedans IRS (did some one say broken diff bush)

I think the main issue is that its lack of compliance at high speed is something you always have to consider and I'd imagine it could catch alot of people out - but on the plus side it is very predictable (could a sedan do a power slide at 170kmh in the wet and hold it - because a ute can do it all day)

just my opinion

CyberWasp · 26-08-2014, 02:12 PM

Are the V8 Utes modified that are in the V8 Racing Series?
I haven't seen many breaking down from what I have seen on TV from diff issues.

XR Martin · 26-08-2014, 02:19 PM

I think the claim the ute cant handle the grunt is just a cop out, and the real reason is the fact they only have a limited amount of engines and autos and want to sell them at the highest price possible. ie in a sedan.

tweeked · 26-08-2014, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

yeah - I would have gone a FGX xr8 ute (already have a fg turbo)

As for durability, i am not sure about that. My FG ute (manual) had 700nm from 70,000 km with a tune and from 140,000km it has had over 900nm (400-450rwkw). its now over 250,000km and its still going strong (and it gets worked hard and often carries a lot and tows even more).

I would say its a stronger more reliable package than the sedans IRS (did some one say broken diff bush)

I think the main issue is that its lack of compliance at high speed is something you always have to consider and I'd imagine it could catch alot of people out - but on the plus side it is very predictable (could a sedan do a power slide at 170kmh in the wet and hold it - because a ute can do it all day)

just my opinion

But you are just saying that because something hasn't broken.

It doesnt work that way in product development, they wil pull apart everything and measure against tolerances - if it has deviated x amount from specification, a formula will predict likely warranty costs. Your suspension could well be a fair way outside of original specs right now - I know I had to replace both of my lower wishbones due to them being bent, but it still drove ok and I had no idea.

The turbos torque ramps up a bit differently from the immediate torque of the PD Supercharger also.

tweeked · 26-08-2014, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Are the V8 Utes modified that are in the V8 Racing Series?
I haven't seen many breaking down from what I have seen on TV from diff issues.

These have no where near the torque of the 315 Miami

cortinagt · 26-08-2014, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Are the V8 Utes modified that are in the V8 Racing Series?
I haven't seen many breaking down from what I have seen on TV from diff issues.

This document starts to explain just how different they are to a road car

http://www.v8utes.com.au/userfiles/M...h%20%20Dec.pdf

galaxy xr8 · 26-08-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

No photos of Tezza's ???

Not yet...I started a thread with the hope that it might create some interest and we might see some pic’s or even hear some info from the people that might know something more.. but nothing as of yet.

**Polyal** · 26-08-2014, 02:43 PM

Your talking 5Nm difference between the old F6 ute spec and a proposed 335 FGX XR8 spec...certainly something else going on. Maybe some compliance thing for the ute over the sedan? Emissions or something?

As above...they would make more money on a sedan aswell although the ute would cost less to make so the % mightnt be thaaat different.

Regardless we dont have it, I dont personally think it has anything to do with NVH or strength as such.

fgpsi · 26-08-2014, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

No photos of Tezza's ???

What for? It's the same

galaxy xr8 · 26-08-2014, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgpsi

What for? It's the same

No it’s not, there are slight changes to the front.

fgpsi · 26-08-2014, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

No it’s not, there are slight changes to the front.

Nothing to see here

malazn mafia · 26-08-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

But you are just saying that because something hasn't broken.

It doesnt work that way in product development, they wil pull apart everything and measure against tolerances - if it has deviated x amount from specification, a formula will predict likely warranty costs. Your suspension could well be a fair way outside of original specs right now - I know I had to replace both of my lower wishbones due to them being bent, but it still drove ok and I had no idea.

The turbos torque ramps up a bit differently from the immediate torque of the PD Supercharger also.

How did the BA IRS pass the 'rigid' tolerances of Product Development? I guess driveline shunt and the diff moving all over the place was within tolerances

**Polyal** · 26-08-2014, 03:13 PM

Bring back the 9'!...and the thread to its actual topic..LOL

galaxy xr8 · 26-08-2014, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgpsi

Nothing to see here

Neither is the interior of the new falcon but you and many others in the recent past have been screaming out for pic’s of that.

tweeked · 26-08-2014, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How did the BA IRS pass the 'rigid' tolerances of Product Development? I guess driveline shunt and the diff moving all over the place was within tolerances

Doesn't matter if they are not paing out on warranty beyond a certain cost point. That is where "they all do that" comes into it. They calculated that the cost of improving was higher than the warranty expectations. They then do running changes if the real world shows up as an issue.

Just like 335 water pumps

fgpsi · 26-08-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Neither is the interior of the new falcon but you and many others in the recent past have been screaming out for pic’s of that.

Yeah that's cos we thought there might be changes

Smoke Pursuit · 26-08-2014, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Your talking 5Nm difference between the old F6 ute spec and a proposed 335 FGX XR8 spec...certainly something else going on. Maybe some compliance thing for the ute over the sedan? Emissions or something?

As above...they would make more money on a sedan aswell although the ute would cost less to make so the % mightnt be thaaat different.

Regardless we dont have it, I dont personally think it has anything to do with NVH or strength as such.

Its got nothing to do with compliance. The 335 motor has never been fitted to a UTE because it did not pass durability testing. Further more they never engineered the 315 let alone a 335 in a ute to take Brembos with the stability program.

**Polyal** · 26-08-2014, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Its got nothing to do with compliance. The 335 motor has never been fitted to a UTE because it did not pass durability testing. Further more they never engineered the 315 let alone a 335 in a ute to take Brembos with the stability program.

Forgetting the brake thing just for a minute then, noting the F6 actually comes on just as strong earlier than a 335 then I'm still not seeing how a 335 ute is that much different in terms of something in the rear end to a 310 ute...there is next to no torque difference.

Again whatever the reason is the it doesn't really matter, but if you know the answer you may have to be a bit more forthcoming for it to sink into my thick head.

2242100 · 26-08-2014, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree with you agreeing with me...

...but..in the case of the ute there is something bigger going on there because they wouldnt have left it at 315 for all this time if they didnt need to.

What I dont get is how much less torque is the XR6T or the F6310 ute making that the 335 5.0 is and how does that +Nm's effect the car?

And does that mean that anyone modding a ute above 315 is actually doing something potentially dangerous? Id say no because we have plenty of evidence that utes can be pushed pretty hard.

My gut feeling is it comes down to some internal constraint put on FoA.

I'm not sure about the 315 Miami, but I'm thinking that in the real world the XR6T's, F6's and 335 kW GT's have a lot more than the claimed torque figures.
I've seen quite a bit of GPS performance data of all these cars and it seems that they have fairly similar performance (hence torque) in the 3000 to 5000 rpm rev range. From that point on the XR6T's torque (on overboost) drops away and the F6 follows a bit later.
However the GT has similar torque almost to the cutout (on it's overboost). and nearly linear acceleration to the cutout).
So lets say the GT has the same torque at 6000 rpm as the F6 has at 5250 rpm, then in that case it's hanging onto the same torque for a further 14.28% more revs and that means it's got 14.28% more power at the higher revs.

Not saying that these numbers are exactly correct, but I believe that's the sort of thing that's going on. Similar load on the driveline from 3000 rpm but for longer I suggest, and also a similar push in the back but for longer.

Whatever the true figures though, I feel pretty sure that the GT that Wheels tested near the end of 2010 at WSID certainly had more than 575 Nm of torque when it got to 100 kmh in 5.28 seconds after a second gear launch.
I understand that grip issues meant that the power wasn't on for the full run. The temperature was 25 degrees.
Likewise I'm sure that my stock XR6T had way more than the claimed torque when it got to 100 in 4.85 seconds (off a second gear launch with better grip) at WSID and I got a 12.731 sec timeslip (ref post 8172 of 22/8 about 10 pages back).

**Polyal** · 26-08-2014, 06:24 PM

Hey 2242100...no doubt all of the cars you mention are probably over what ford state...and that the 335 holds the max torque a fraction longer, but I guess my theory was that max torque generated is pretty close and seems close enough to say that it's odd that with such a minor difference that it is enough to cancel out a whole model..unless it was just an easy out.

**DFB FGXR6** · 26-08-2014, 06:53 PM

This is quoted from "Elks" in the GT-F thread after having a chance encounter with the engineer associated with the GT-F development -

The weak link is the rear suspension and the change to pinion angles when loaded/or lowered. On those conditions the front pinion of the diff raises up and gets the uni joints outside there normal range. Add in more hp. And it's not a good setup.
I asked if cal tracks will fix that. Yes they will, but will make the car extremely harsh. They did some experimenting with control rods used in the RTV models but time and money were against them.

sammy2013 · 26-08-2014, 07:15 PM

Does anyone know when we can order an FGX? I've been hanging out to decide on my specs since the damn thing was announced!

Tbm1121 · 26-08-2014, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammy2013

Does anyone know when we can order an FGX? I've been hanging out to decide on my specs since the damn thing was announced!

You can leave a deposit now, but we don't have the ability to order the cars yet, we finalised the last fg orders last week, so in the next little while fg x model codes should come on line, I would estimate 4 weeks, you should have a press release with spec and pricing fairly similar in timing to this.

sammy2013 · 26-08-2014, 07:37 PM

Awesome!!!!! Thanks mate, absolutely cannot wait for an XR8, the trusty BF is starting to fall to bits here and there!

Tbm1121 · 26-08-2014, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammy2013

Awesome!!!!! Thanks mate, absolutely cannot wait for an XR8, the trusty BF is starting to fall to bits here and there!

I will be posting the info that ford release when they give it to us, also will give indication as to pricing(not rrp)

2242100 · 27-08-2014, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Hey 2242100...no doubt all of the cars you mention are probably over what ford state...and that the 335 holds the max torque a fraction longer, but I guess my theory was that max torque generated is pretty close and seems close enough to say that it's odd that with such a minor difference that it is enough to cancel out a whole model..unless it was just an easy out.

I agree, the reason doesn't make any sense to me either.
If anything I believe both the F6 and the XR6T Utes would probably have more torque down low than both Miami engines once the Turbo's are spooled up.
If it was OK for the Turbo's I can't see why it wouldn't be OK for the 335 motor in a UTE.

Walt Kowalski · 27-08-2014, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Its a issue with the rear end.

I am glad somebody admitted it. I thought that might be the case.

Why not do the Bosnjak upgrade?

FGX-302 · 27-08-2014, 08:39 AM

Glad I'm a sedan man ;-) feel for all the ute lovers though.. A 335 Miami in a falcon ute would be off the rails!

NanoDuke · 27-08-2014, 08:45 AM

Yeah it's a shame FPV was pulled early. Imagine a 335 ute in FGX guise, but with unique FPV styling. I've always preferred the HSV ute styling in the Maloos. Would've been good to see one last aggressive falcon ute go up against it.

~Duke