US Elections - Boring or Important to Aust?

[CAT600]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hSBtgugeUk

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Apparently Democrats had a crack at it, now that it didnt work and the country has huge numbers of illegal and often undocumented immigrants, somebody has stepped up to take it a step further, all while putting the very tarrif enforcements that many people on here criticised the Australian government of not doing in the last 20-50 years, hence why almost nothing is made here anymore.

Australia has the excuse of both sparse and low population base, the USA does not... what both sides of government over there have done the last 20 years is waged war for profit, stirred up a $h!tstorm and created an ever-increasing welfare state where the left has been brainwashed into thinking that an illegal alien has the same rights as a citizen.

If anyone is unsure how immigration does not fix poverty (and as unfortunate as US middle east policy aka meddling is that includes some "refugees of war" example too) have a watch of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

As some my friends in the USA (who almost all see it very differently to most on here) have implied "Wanting Trump to fail is like hoping the bus we are all crashes fatally"

Daniel

[FPV8U]

The main issue that was gathering momentum pre election for me was the pressure building between Russia and the USA, Obama deploying a heap of infrastructure in the final weeks of his term after months of attempting to incite issues between the two superpower nations.

Whether Trump has or hasn't been influenced by Russia remains to be proven and from where I'm sitting seems to be a convenient theory to link the "evil" Trump with the "evil" Putin based on simplistic comments that they are willing to work on their nations relations together.

Now I'm not going to delve into anything else that we all may agree or disagree on be it the immigration restrictions, removing illegals or building of the much talked about wall, but if Trump can potentially help stop a legitimate war of nations im all for giving him a chance, Hillary seemed hell bent on going head to head with Putin in a move that would have likely seen Australians drawn into another conflict, most of these other issues are not likely to directly effect us unless we follow the US lead.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I like his ideas of limiting 'refugees' from the Middle East and Africa, we ourselves here in Melbourne and its surrounds have seen the results of this failed social experiment (Apex et al and areas like Broadmeadows region).

Apex in the 2010s are just the Oakleigh Wogs of the 90s.

Ideally if we didn't cause so much crap in the Middle East we probably wouldn't have needed to take in refugees from there in the first place.

100% agree. Reap what you sow.

The Middle East doesn't work under 'democracy', they need a strong dictator and when you dispose of that dictatorship it turns out worse than it was.

Certain parts of the Middle East operate under governments voted in by the people. Specifically Jordan, UAE, Oman have been stable for decades under the (ultimate) leadership of Monarchs but with an elected government underneath. Sounds familiar? Oi oi oi*

Then we import these people under some BS 'humanitarian' act, what for?

What? Do you mean us being a signatory under the 1951 UNHCR Refugee Convention?

Control of their borders, we should do the same.

We are, and this will be a stain on our legacy.

We don't need Africans, Iraqis, Syrians and Afghans or Islam in its various forms with its backwards views,

Established Aussies said this about the Greeks & Italians postwar.

the Catholic Church is bad enough as it is and hard enough to contend with.

Yep, dat Royal Commission.

* apart from our own revolving doors of PMs.

[superyob]

Bit short on any legitimate counter argument there Ghia5L...

[Peterwl]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

The main issue that was gathering momentum pre election for me was the pressure building between Russia and the USA, Obama deploying a heap of infrastructure in the final weeks of his term after months of attempting to incite issues between the two superpower nations.

Whether Trump has or hasn't been influenced by Russia remains to be proven and from where I'm sitting seems to be a convenient theory to link the "evil" Trump with the "evil" Putin based on simplistic comments that they are willing to work on their nations relations together.

Now I'm not going to delve into anything else that we all may agree or disagree on be it the immigration restrictions, removing illegals or building of the much talked about wall, but if Trump can potentially help stop a legitimate war of nations im all for giving him a chance, Hillary seemed hell bent on going head to head with Putin in a move that would have likely seen Australians drawn into another conflict, most of these other issues are not likely to directly effect us unless we follow the US lead.

A reasonable assessment of the situation, all except for the last sentence.

As for Australia being drawn into any conflict with Russia, forget it.
We are pip squeaks on the world military stage.

The first American armament fired onto Russian soil, look out.

As I remember from the last SALT Treaty negotiations in 1972, Russia and America each had around 2500 nuclear weapons of various sizes ( Megaton’s )

Australia could be put back to the stone age by 1 multihued cruise missile from a Russian Submarine. The latest generation of their subs can carry around twenty of these monsters.

We have no defense against this.

I am of the opinion any attack on Russian soil will be met by a sledgehammer reply.

You are right about that idiotic Hilary Clinton ( and the dopey Europeans ) wanting some sort of conflict with Russia, maybe her staff did not ever inform her that they have just as much destructive muscle as the USA.

On a sobering note, Russia let of the biggest Nuclear bomb in history in 1961 on a large island north of Russia ( Novaya Zemlya ). They admit to 50 Megaton’s ( 200 times the size the Americans dropped on the Japanese )

The shockwave from this explosion went around the world 3 times.

Do you think that they have improved on this in the last 55 years ?

[nstg8a]

It would be each countries defence systems that would decide a proper skirmish, both have more than enough offensive weapons to do the job but I think the Americans would hold a decisive defensive advantage.


Bring it on,,worlds turning to ****, people are asshols. Time for a big reset.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

A reasonable assessment of the situation, all except for the last sentence

Could you please expand your point of view?

[Syndrome]

I am impressed that this thread has remained civil and is still open.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

A reasonable assessment of the situation, all except for the last sentence.

As for Australia being drawn into any conflict with Russia, forget it.
We are pip squeaks on the world military stage.

The first American armament fired onto Russian soil, look out.

As I remember from the last SALT Treaty negotiations in 1972, Russia and America each had around 2500 nuclear weapons of various sizes ( Megaton’s )

Australia could be put back to the stone age by 1 multihued cruise missile from a Russian Submarine. The latest generation of their subs can carry around twenty of these monsters.

We have no defense against this.

I am of the opinion any attack on Russian soil will be met by a sledgehammer reply.

You are right about that idiotic Hilary Clinton ( and the dopey Europeans ) wanting some sort of conflict with Russia, maybe her staff did not ever inform her that they have just as much destructive muscle as the USA.

On a sobering note, Russia let of the biggest Nuclear bomb in history in 1961 on a large island north of Russia ( Novaya Zemlya ). They admit to 50 Megaton’s ( 200 times the size the Americans dropped on the Japanese )

The shockwave from this explosion went around the world 3 times.

Do you think that they have improved on this in the last 55 years ?

The USA troop deployment are not about invading Russia. It's about dissuading Russia from annexing more neighbouring states. You seem to have forgotten about the whole Ukraine/Crimea thing.

[cs123]

[Adamz Ghia]

There doesn't have to be a war with Russia. Collapse the price of oil and they'll hurt enough. Russia is economically fragile, have been for a long time. They came to the brink in 2015.

I'm no expert on this, but I read it on the internet so it must be true, isn't their military heavily out dated?

But you're right, a war between the two won't have much of an effect on us. We're a spec of dust in the scheme of things.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

There doesn't have to be a war with Russia. Collapse the price of oil and they'll hurt enough. Russia is economically fragile, have been for a long time. They came to the brink in 2015.

I'm no expert on this, but I read it on the internet so it must be true, isn't their military heavily out dated?

But you're right, a war between the two won't have much of an effect on us. We're a spec of dust in the scheme of things.

New generation tank:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...an-super-tank/

New generation ICBM:

https://www.rt.com/news/363981-russi...armat-missile/

New generation fighter jet:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/ga...318265ed8252c5

Somehow I don't think they'll be a walk in the park like everyone makes them out to be.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

New generation tank:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...an-super-tank/

New generation ICBM:

https://www.rt.com/news/363981-russi...armat-missile/

New generation fighter jet:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/ga...318265ed8252c5

Somehow I don't think they'll be a walk in the park like everyone makes them out to be.

They are no joke.

And this line from the article is a worry

There is growing alarm among military chiefs that a presidential victory for Donald Trump, who has criticised US funding of Nato, could leave the West badly exposed to Vladimir Putin’s aggression, especially in the vulnerable Baltic states.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by cs123

Maybe I am not as old as you but I remember QLD in the 70s and 80s.

I remember protest marches being outlawed but people marched anyway. I remember the corruption and authoritarian rule of Joh. Jobs for the boys. Christian conservative on the outside and crook underneath.

I remember the other states laughing at QLD and it's corruption and Joh. Often I would hear jokes made at our expense.

The good old days hey!

Ha ha , were you a gay activist or a unionist/ labor party member ?

I reckon Joh had some view of the future. Where all those intellectuals would hijack the system and turn it into the bloody shamozzeel it is today. A place where the lefties hold more power than the government.

As an aside I don't recall anyone burning the national flag in those days either.

It cracks me up when people say Joh was a corrupt as if he was the only one. It is if he was the only one in Australia that had his fingers dirty.

WAKE UP MATE. That period of time was heaven for any elected official to be bent. The only difference was Joh got arrogant and he got caught which is a bloody good thing. The barstards are still doing it today don't you worry about that !

[superyob]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Ha ha , were you a gay activist or a unionist/ labor party member ?

I reckon Joh had some view of the future. Where all those intellectuals would hijack the system and turn it into the bloody shamozzeel it is today. A place where the lefties hold more power than the government.

As an aside I don't recall anyone burning the national flag in those days either.

It cracks me up when people say Joh was a corrupt as if he was the only one. It is if he was the only one in Australia that had his fingers dirty.

WAKE UP MATE. That period of time was heaven for any elected official to be bent. The only difference was Joh got arrogant and he got caught which is a bloody good thing. The barstards are still doing it today don't you worry about that !

Queensland ran like a clock under Joh. People are quick to point out the corruption but there has not been a better premier since...

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

http://fordforums.com.au/showpost.ph...&postcount=690

I'll also add some more:

I like his ideas of limiting 'refugees' from the Middle East and Africa, we ourselves here in Melbourne and its surrounds have seen the results of this failed social experiment (Apex et al and areas like Broadmeadows region).

Ideally if we didn't cause so much crap in the Middle East we probably wouldn't have needed to take in refugees from there in the first place.

The Middle East doesn't work under 'democracy', they need a strong dictator and when you dispose of that dictatorship it turns out worse than it was.

Then we import these people under some BS 'humanitarian' act, what for?

We saw it with Brexit, we saw it with Trump, the media and bookies both got it wrong.

The media really showed their hand with all those polls with Trump in with no chance apparently.

Control of their borders, we should do the same.

We don't need Africans, Iraqis, Syrians and Afghans or Islam in its various forms with its backwards views, the Catholic Church is bad enough as it is and hard enough to contend with.

We don't need Anglo Saxons and Africans, Somalis or Islam.
After all a large percentage of Anglo's are descendants of convict trash.
send them back...
Plus Aus wont break the ties with the UK or even change the flag. FFS even Canada did this.

No wonder many of us are prouder of our heritage.

[cs123]

It keeps getting more interesting.

Director of National Security and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs dumped from the National Security Council.

In their place Trump has added Bannon. A extreme right wing blogger with no national security experience.

Donald Trump has removed the highest ranking US military officer from his National Security Council, replacing him with the former boss of a far-right website.

Joseph Dunford, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff, will no longer be a permanent member of the council.

But Steve Bannon, the President's Chief Strategist and the former CEO of right wing website Breitbart will have a regular seat in the meetings.

Dunford, along with the Director of National Intelligence, John McConnell, have been bumped and will only attend meetings related to their "responsibilities and expertise."

Bannon, 62, is a skilled propagandist and darling of the so-called ‘alt-right’ - a term used to describe a movement of racist, anti-Muslim and white supremacist people on social media, which got behind Trump’s candidacy.

Prior to Trump's election, Bannon had no experience in public service or national security.

[monzie]

But you're right, a war between the two won't have much of an effect on us. We're a spec of dust in the scheme of things.[/QUOTE]


I tend to disagree, with all the secret US bases scattered around Aus surely those installation would be targeted.
We might not get the big daddy missiles, but I'am sure we would get a visit from his little brothers.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by cs123

It keeps getting more interesting.

Director of National Security and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs dumped from the National Security Council.

In their place Trump has added Bannon. A extreme right wing blogger with no national security experience.

Like all of us Mr Trump doesn't enjoy people pointing out when he is wrong. With careful selection of his advisers Mr Trump will never have to worry about being wrong or being disagreed with ever!

It's completely brilliant what could possibly go wrong!?

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

I especially liked this bit:

...as it seemed he is right given the alternate facts given on Russia

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

I'm picturing either of these:

1. A huge bloke locked in a dark bed room in front of his PC with a tin foil hat.

or

2. A troll bot in a FSB 'fake news" centre sitting with hundreds of other comrades and feverishly posting on Western forums / news sites.

I wonder if he started his account here a while back, and sat dorment until he got the go ahead from his handler to start posting, or if he hacked into the real users account and started his job then.

His efforts are very entertaining and absolutely hilarious

But both of you never really debunked his argument did you?

Come on now, appeal to ridicule and ad hominem attacks are what Donald Trump does best, you wouldn't happen to be one of the types who criticizes Trump over this and now you're doing it? Hypocrite with a capital H much?

[cs123]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

But both of you never really debunked his argument did you?

Come on now, appeal to ridicule and ad hominem attacks are what Donald Trump does best, you wouldn't happen to be one of the types who criticizes Trump over this and now you're doing it? Hypocrite with a capital H much?

How do you debunk something like this?

I would much rather live is a safe Russia that just wants peace and cooperation with a Trump led USA, than in Obama's Nuclear emboldened Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya etc.

It is a no brainer !

This is Russia we are talking about. Nice and safe!!!!!

It's quite peculiar that Trump supporters are now pro-Putin. That poor guy is so misunderstood. He is all sweetness and light.

Trump and his supporters seem to like Russia more than key allies these days. Trump blasts NATO and Germany.... says Putin is OK!!!!

what a weird world....

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Apex in the 2010s are just the Oakleigh Wogs of the 90s.

Although I partially agree with you on this one, the severity of the crimes that "Apex" members are doing compared to what our lasagne & souvlaki eating friends of the 90's got up doesn't even come close.

Ideally if we didn't cause so much crap in the Middle East we probably wouldn't have needed to take in refugees from there in the first place.

100% agree. Reap what you sow.

Many Middle Eastern countries have participated and continue participating in bombing the same places where these refugees are fleeing, how many refugees have they taken in?

Certain parts of the Middle East operate under governments voted in by the people. Specifically Jordan, UAE, Oman have been stable for decades under the (ultimate) leadership of Monarchs but with an elected government underneath. Sounds familiar? Oi oi oi*

All those nations have adopted and have been heavily influenced by western values and culture and free market capitalism, which ironically is a western economic system. No mention of Saudi Arabia? Iran? Iraq? Afghanistan? Yemen? Libya? Syria? and the many other majority Muslim nations scattered around the world?

That's the ironic hypocrisy of it all, here are all these people protesting their utter hatred of the west; its values, its capitalist system, the secular state, our freedoms, heck its so bad in the west that so many people from those Middle Eastern counties among others want to come here, in fact they risk death to get here it's that bad here. And what's even more ironic a lot of the protest comes from within these western countries....

We are, and this will be a stain on our legacy.

Protecting Australia's borders and enforcing the law will be a stain on Australia's legacy?

[Peterwl]

Originally Posted by cs123

It keeps getting more interesting.

Director of National Security and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs dumped from the National Security Council.

In their place Trump has added Bannon. A extreme right wing blogger with no national security experience.

You are right about Bannon !

But Donald Trump had no experience in Government, and was elected President !

The new Secretary of defense Mattis, is a humble soldier / marine, no experience in Government, but a great selection.

The new Secretary of State is an Oil Company executive.

Closer to home for the simpler minded left wing leaning people, Australia’s best Labor Prime Minister was Bob Hawke. ( with daylight second )

He went straight from ACTU boss to Prime Minister in 1983 ! He had no public service / government experience.

I could add a lot more.

Bottom line, there is far more expertise outside of Governments in recent years.

Government ( Departments ) has become so slack and incompetent with affirmative action etc, that no top people come from it anymore.

The odd prime Minister, Senior minister , Premier have moved to successful private industry jobs after their experience in government.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

You are right about Bannon !

But Donald Trump had no experience in Government, and was elected President !

The new Secretary of defense Mattis, is a humble soldier / marine, no experience in Government, but a great selection.

The new Secretary of State is an Oil Company executive.

Closer to home for the simpler minded left wing leaning people, Australia’s best Labor Prime Minister was Bob Hawke. ( with daylight second )

He went straight from ACTU boss to Prime Minister in 1983 ! He had no public service / government experience.

I could add a lot more.

Bottom line, there is far more expertise outside of Governments in recent years.

Government ( Departments ) has become so slack and incompetent with affirmative action etc, that no top people come from it anymore.

The odd prime Minister, Senior minister , Premier have moved to successful private industry jobs after their experience in government.

Supposedly the poster golden child of the 2016 election Bernie Sanders didn't get a "job" until his 40's

He is a great preacher of economic disparity good old Bern, perhaps he has a tramp stamp on his lower back that reads "Practice what you preach"

[Peterwl]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

There doesn't have to be a war with Russia. Collapse the price of oil and they'll hurt enough. Russia is economically fragile, have been for a long time. They came to the brink in 2015.

I'm no expert on this, but I read it on the internet so it must be true, isn't their military heavily out dated?

But you're right, a war between the two won't have much of an effect on us. We're a spec of dust in the scheme of things.

If an oil price collapse hurts Russia, it will hurt the rest of the world as well.

They are in 8th place for oil reserves.

But more important , Russia has the worlds largest supply / reserves of Natural Gas.

Their pipeline through Ukraine supplies most of Europe with their Natural Gas.

If Europe must have a serious economic spat with Russia, make sure it is in the summer months !

Realistically, if Russia was squeezed for cash, they just sell more weapons to aspiring countries around the world.

PS They have massive gold reserves, 8th place, USA 1st place.

The last time the world put a serious economic squeeze on world power was in 1940 with Japan, and we all know what happened then, don’t we ?

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by cs123

How do you debunk something like this?

A lot of what he wrote does actually have some backing, it's not all tinfoil hat conspiracy material he wrote about.

Trump and his supporters seem to like Russia more than key allies these days. Trump blasts NATO and Germany.... says Putin is OK!!!!

what a weird world....

He blasted NATO especially because he felt that not every country was pulling it's weight in the organization yet were benefiting hugely from the protection and economic benefits afforded by being a member. It's like that co-worker most of us have that does minimal work and the only reason the overall job gets done is because the team ends up carrying them, yet they benefit from the same pay and entitlements everyone who pulls their weight gets.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

If an oil price collapse hurts Russia, it will hurt the rest of the world as well.

They are in 8th place for oil reserves.

But more important , Russia has the worlds largest supply / reserves of Natural Gas.

Their pipeline through Ukraine supplies most of Europe with their Natural Gas.

If Europe must have a serious economic spat with Russia, make sure it is in the summer months !

Realistically, if Russia was squeezed for cash, they just sell more weapons to aspiring countries around the world.

PS They have massive gold reserves, 8th place, USA 1st place.

The last time the world put a serious economic squeeze on world power was in 1940 with Japan, and we all know what happened then, don’t we ?

Or just replicate what the Barack Obama team did for Iran, offer them billions of dollars and lift sanctions to "dismantle" their nuclear program...and then allow them to continue researching, testing and boosting their missile program, great deal that one was....

[cs123]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Or just replicate what the Barack Obama team did for Iran, offer them billions of dollars and lift sanctions to "dismantle" their nuclear program...and then allow them to continue researching, testing and boosting their missile program, great deal that one was....

The deal was between Iran and the USA, UK, Russia, China, Germany and France.

It places strict regulations on what Iran can do with it's stockpile (it has to reduce) and penalties for non-compliance.

[roddy1960]

Remember the old smallgoods slogan a few decades back "Is Don Is good "
Well a new one for new US President.. "Is Don Is dumb"...
My so called ( by one or two here) 'leftard' friend in Baltimore got it right I think.
This man is a 'dumbass idiot'. he said .God help the Americans who will pay a huge price for electing this ego maniac..
I only wish any who stick up for him had heard the counter terrorist expert from Australia on P.M. ABC this afternoon.. If you did , it might make you think twice how important and dangerous this man could be for every free country on this planet of ours..

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Remember the old smallgoods slogan a few decades back "Is Don Is good "
Well a new one for smallbrained US President.. "Is Don Is dumb"...
My so called by some 'leftard' friend in Baltimore got it right.
This man is a 'dumbass idiot'..God help the Americans who will pay a huge price for electing this ego maniac..
I only wish any who stick up for him had heard the counter terrorist experts from Australia on P.M. ABC this afternoon.. If you did , it might make you think twice..

if you believe the abc about trump, then you are showing your ignorance, friend.
news flash, don was voted in in a democratic vote, no it wasn,t cause of the russians or aliens or anything stupid, just what working class people want.