holden leaving australia?

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Solidarity brother.

And China is in the same economic disaster as us....or Europe....or USA?

It is always amusing that those who want the higher wages are the same who want to pay as little as possible for their cars.

How about a car industry support tax?

All sales of second hand cars attract an extra 10% that goes towards supporting the local car industry and paying our auto workers?

Surely that would be popular........

shhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't say that to eagerly, Wayne Swan might be surfing here...

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by ivorya

They are just having a big soook.

They have just jumped on the band wagon and are going to blame the Carbon Tax for, potentially, their demise.
It wasn't the Australian Govenment that said said we'd build the cruze here for that price!!

yeah right , there is an old run down derilict manufacturing facility , in baulkham hills which was state of the art , american pharmaceutical plant up until 2008 when the global recession occured , america shut down the australian plant putting 100's out of work to call the plant back home and employ thier own people to kickstart thier own employment and economy , REMEMBER AMERICA pretty much owns everything , that state of the art factory worth millions , empty now has grass growing through it and is still for sale .
i really am disgusted on the secret plan or lack of plan australia has for its citizens . we are losing work so fast , that pretty soon the only skills an aussie will have is to gas bag , type , and wipe ones own rrrrsss.

[mr smith]

Some clown on the radio from some govt think tank was saying we should forget manufacturing and just all work in the mines where there is a skills shortage.(Im not sure about a skills shortage, maybe a shortage of people to work for $15/hr)
Ive worked in mining and it was not a long term option, manufacturing is a much more satisfying undertaking that drives society on many levels. Education, innovation, technical skills etc.
Looks more and more like Labour have forgotten their roots.

[billy302]

have a look at the numbers.
Both Ford and GMH are loosing market share to imports.
My granddaughter just bought a brand new 2011 Hyundai Gets and its great.
The outlook for the Australian Car manufacturing industry is indeed grim.
High cost lower volumes and no tariff protection make the future look bleak.
IF they decide to leave our shores and just import vehicles (Mitsubishi) then a lot of people are going to loose their jobs and that isn't good for anyone.
Politicians did away with tariffs, now we have this situation.
Holden have recently been given funds by the Government to produce green environmentally friendly cars in Australia.
I wonder if this is a political statement by them aimed at government funding?

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Some clown on the radio from some govt think tank was saying we should forget manufacturing and just all work in the mines where there is a skills shortage.(Im not sure about a skills shortage, maybe a shortage of people to work for $15/hr)
Ive worked in mining and it was not a long term option, manufacturing is a much more satisfying undertaking that drives society on many levels. Education, innovation, technical skills etc.
Looks more and more like Labour have forgotten their roots.

$15 an hour?

What year was that? 1970?

There's big money to be had in mining, even for a TA and there is a skills shortage, why do you think there's so many kiwis, south Africans and Chinese over here working in the mines?

I've worked with people who live in Queensland that fly over to Perth at their own cost to work in mines up north here too.

And that is probably the biggest issue...no one willing to travel to work.

[onfire]

Originally Posted by Paxton

No, not good riddance. Firstly, Holden employ about 5,000 Australians. Secondly, if Holden pull up stumps, so will Ford, and Toyota, leaving 250,000 Australians out of work. Car manufacturing is a huge industry in Australia, and employ many, many people.

No Holden = No Ford. Cruze may be losing Holden bucketloads, and I don't like their cars, but I wish them no ill.

And lets not forget. No competition. Which means, instead of just being complacent, Ford AU will just not care to make their cars any better.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

$15 an hour?

What year was that? 1970?

There's big money to be had in mining, even for a TA and there is a skills shortage, why do you think there's so many kiwis, south Africans and Chinese over here working in the mines?

I've worked with people who live in Queensland that fly over to Perth at their own cost to work in mines up north here too.

And that is probably the biggest issue...no one willing to travel to work.

I know they dont pay $15 /hr. Whenever I hear a skills shortage its usually employer groups having a whinge, when what they are saying is they cant get people for the rate they are offering, their interest is driving down pay rates with a bigger pool.
That said the mines are oviously not paying enough or there would be a mass exodous from the East. I ve been and I am currently getting very close to the pay rate here in Melbourne along with being home every night.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by MAD

What makes an employee at a car plant more important than an employee at the milk bar down the road? Why should the gov intervene to prop up these companies that arent working?
If I started a small business, hired a couple of people but wasn't very business savvy and spent too much on bad ideas, should the gov help me out?

If you remove large manufacturing from an area, then there is no milk bar, or newsagent, or convenience store. Taking away a large industry also destroys many others in the area.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

$15 an hour?

What year was that? 1970?

There's big money to be had in mining, even for a TA and there is a skills shortage, why do you think there's so many kiwis, south Africans and Chinese over here working in the mines?

I've worked with people who live in Queensland that fly over to Perth at their own cost to work in mines up north here too.

And that is probably the biggest issue...no one willing to travel to work.

Why should people pull up stumps and travel away from family and friends just to earn a crust? If you go back to the 1800's in England, the average distance travelled from a persons birthplace was no greater than 20 miles, in their whole life. The 1800's wasn't that long ago.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by mr smith

I know they dont pay $15 /hr. Whenever I hear a skills shortage its usually employer groups having a whinge, when what they are saying is they cant get people for the rate they are offering, their interest is driving down pay rates with a bigger pool.
That said the mines are oviously not paying enough or there would be a mass exodous from the East. I ve been and I am currently getting very close to the pay rate here in Melbourne along with being home every night.

This is exactly right. Australia currently has a youth unemployment rate of about 20%. Instead of lobbying the government for skilled emmigration why don't employers train young workers. I have many friends who have completed university degrees only to be unemployed or working part time.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by irish2

Why should people pull up stumps and travel away from family and friends just to earn a crust? If you go back to the 1800's in England, the average distance travelled from a persons birthplace was no greater than 20 miles, in their whole life. The 1800's wasn't that long ago.

1. If they really want a job, they will pull up stumps - friends can be made wherever you go, and family is always contactable...

2. We're now in 2011...you're talking 200 years...and saying not that long ago?

I travel more than 20 miles for work now...and have done for the last eight years since moving to the Queensland. I live within my means rent wise, which means I have to travel more...

As for $15 an hour, as a temp in a warehouse picking, you're not getting much more than that now...going rate is around $19 an hour...

I don't believe 'cash injections' are the solution - I am, however, a firm believer of people functioning within their means. If Holden 'requires' this sort of injection, and yet we haven't heard boo from Ford - would that mean that Holden are perhaps selling their vehicles for far below what it actually costs to build them? Or are they perhaps paying the 'chief's' a little too much? Whatever they're doing, it's NOT business savvy...

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

My grandfather used to tell me that it's not about us coming down to their level, it's about us dragging them up to our level. Demand better conditions and better pay for your overseas counterparts.

Your grandfather is a very smart man Gobes. The powers that be however, are all about us coming down to their level...

Originally Posted by irish2

Why should people pull up stumps and travel away from family and friends just to earn a crust? If you go back to the 1800's in England, the average distance travelled from a persons birthplace was no greater than 20 miles, in their whole life. The 1800's wasn't that long ago.

Spot on irish.

I believe the turn of phrase I am looking for is "work to live, not live to work"...

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

1. If they really want a job, they will pull up stumps - friends can be made wherever you go, and family is always contactable...

2. We're now in 2011...you're talking 200 years...and saying not that long ago?

I travel more than 20 miles for work now...and have done for the last eight years since moving to the Queensland. I live within my means rent wise, which means I have to travel more...

As for $15 an hour, as a temp in a warehouse picking, you're not getting much more than that now...going rate is around $19 an hour...

I don't believe 'cash injections' are the solution - I am, however, a firm believer of people functioning within their means. If Holden 'requires' this sort of injection, and yet we haven't heard boo from Ford - would that mean that Holden are perhaps selling their vehicles for far below what it actually costs to build them? Or are they perhaps paying the 'chief's' a little too much? Whatever they're doing, it's NOT business savvy...

I earn more in a capital city, working 46 hours a week than I would in the mines working 70 hours a week doing the same job. I travel less than 20 k's to work each day.

It is not easy if you own a house to just bugger off and work in a hell hole in the middle of nowhere. In my line of work I can get more money in Antartica than the mines, but it is still not much more than being in a capital city.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is always amusing that those who want the higher wages are the same who want to pay as little as possible for their cars.

What was the wonderful comment from the other day 'Because your job isn't my job'.....remember don't support the country you live in cause then your a moron!

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...628-1go09.html

Green funding cuts make Holden see red
Clancy Yeates
June 28, 2011

The Holden Commodore's future as an Australian-made car appears safe for now, but the company says funding cuts have hurt the business case for its other locally made car.

Managing director Mike Devereux yesterday warned that Holden would not have opted to make the smaller Cruze model in Australia without help from the now-defunct Green Car Innovation Fund. Holden received $149 million in government money to make the Cruze in 2008, and the company will decide whether to build the next generation model in the next year or so.

After receiving $40 million last month for a more fuel-efficient Commodore, the company is demanding more taxpayer support after $800 million was slashed from the green car fund earlier this year.
Advertisement: Story continues below

The comments came as Industry Minister Kim Carr met executives from auto giants General Motors and Ford in the United States.

Mr Devereux denied Holden was looking for a ''handout'', but said cuts to funding had made Australia less attractive. He said the recent $40 million would support a total investment of more than $150 million to design a next generation Commodore, but it would be ''considerably tougher'' to keep making cars in Australia without co-investment schemes.

''Certainly our business case for the Cruze was hugely bolstered by the existence of the Green Car Innovation Fund,'' he said. ''I don't believe we would have brought the Cruze to Australia without [it].''

In a statement responding to Mr Devereux, Senator Carr said the government was ''very aware'' of the need for investment certainty. ''The government remains strongly committed to an economically sustainable automotive industry and to the livelihoods of the more than 200,000 workers employed in the manufacture and servicing and repairs of motor vehicles,'' Senator Carr said.

The Automotive Transformation Scheme would spark $4 billion worth of investment between 2011 and 2015, he said.

Another of Australia's three car makers, Toyota, also stressed the need for consistent Australian policies that gave its parent company confidence to invest.

The director of sales and marketing at Toyota Australia, David Buttner, said: ''We are one of three manufacturers in this country. We compete not only with those three manufacturers but a whole lot of affiliates in the Asian Pacific region for production volume,'' he said.

Besides cutting the green car fund, the Gillard government also cancelled a $430 million rebate for people who scrapped older cars, dubbed ''cash for clunkers'' by critics.

The opposition spokeswoman for innovation, industry and science, Sophie Mirabella, said Mr Devereux's comments highlighted the damaging consequences of the government's ''duplicity and inconsistency''.

[vztrt]

Australia ‘vitally important to General Motors’

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578BD00180768

GM executives ‘optimistic’ about Holden’s production future after Carr meeting

28 June 2011

By TERRY MARTIN

SENIOR General Motors executives have reaffirmed the US auto giant’s commitment to Holden’s manufacturing operations in Australia, following a meeting with federal industry minister Kim Carr in Washington today.

GM’s vice-president for global public policy, Robert Ferguson, and vice-president of international government relations and public policy, Arturo Elias, met with the minister to discuss the company’s recent investments in Australia – aided by significant federal government funding – and “prospects for future growth, particularly with regard to exports”.

“Holden and our Australian facilities are vitally important to General Motors,” Mr Ferguson said. “We are optimistic about the Australian marketplace and the products produced there.

“The research and engineering done in Australia is benefiting the company worldwide. Sales of the Camaro – developed in Australia – are robust.

“We’re also optimistic about the new police cruiser, the Caprice, which is being introduced to the police departments in America’s markets.”

Earlier this week, Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux’s warned that the decision to axe the Green Car Innovation Fund (GCIF) threatened the industry’s long-term viability here.

In Washington, Senator Carr described the meeting with GM as “extremely positive”.

“I’m optimistic about the future of GM Holden in Australia and future opportunities for the Australian automotive industry,” he said.

“The Gillard government’s willingness to work in partnership with the automotive industry is clearly understood and appreciated internationally.

“The ‘New Car Plan for a Greener Future’ provides a basis for the continuing transformation of the industry and supports the development of a more competitive Australian manufacturing sector.”

Senator Carr will also meet Ford Motor Company executives in the United States this week, and has announced plans to meet GM and Ford regional management in China – and senior Toyota executives in Bangkok – later this year.

Mr Devereux, who is also the president of car industry’s peak industry body, the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI), told ABC radio on Monday that the axing of the green-car fund “makes it very difficult to look forward to figure out where will that co-investment attraction come from in the future”.

“Australia is not a low-cost country. It also is a country with virtually zero import tariffs. So you've got relatively high costs, zero barriers to entry and in order for it to make sense to make things here there needs to be some, what I consider to be ‘smart industry policy’ which there was just a few years ago,” he said.

He later told ABC radio in Adelaide: “Australia cannot become a hole in the ground for south-east Asia to pull minerals out of and then shift finished goods back to this country.”

As GoAuto has reported, Holden has received $189 million in green-car handouts from the federal government – more than half of the $340 million dished out to car companies and automotive component suppliers to date.

The government axed the GCIF in January to help pay for Queensland’s flood reconstruction, although applications are still being processed.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

I believe the turn of phrase I am looking for is "work to live, not live to work"...

slavery doesn't work like that.
The only way people will make money on houses is if people start earning higher wages to take out bigger loans. When selling a home you pray for a bigger sucker than you where in order to make a profit, the baby boomers will be retiring over the next 10 years selling the houses which they think are worth twice as much as the true value, in order to retire., if houses start selling at the true value then we will have a huge generation on retiring dole bludgers, this is why the government wants slaves in the mines, although there will be nothing left to mine for you grand children, so you can work in the mines you whole life to pay of a huge mortgage but if there is nothing left for the next few generation to mine (remember manufacturing will be gone by then, ask the poms what they make) then who will buy your house at a huge profit in order for you to retire, working till you a dead is the future under this and the opposition government.

[SEZ213]

That's gold - they picked up the biggest piece of the pie with the GCIF, and are still crying poor - what was that about $200m profit...?

As much as people like to bag Ford and suggest they aren't doing the right thing - I think their reasoning is further confirmed by these latest articles...It wasn't viable to start off with, and it's even less viable now...but what on earth were they planning to do once the GCIF came to an end? Keep running at a loss, and expecting more 'incentives' to stay in Australia?

It seems from that article that Holden are trying to hold the country to ransom, perhaps they could start functioning within their means like other manufacturers already are...?

[BHDOGS]

Its a little off topic but when i first started working as security guard 3 years ago the part time wage was 15.80 an hour for the privilege of being spat on and punched in the face then paying the government 250 bucks a year for a security licence aswell so theres still plenty of low paid industry's out there. Now its up to 16.50!

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

$15 an hour?

What year was that? 1970?

There's big money to be had in mining, even for a TA and there is a skills shortage, why do you think there's so many kiwis, south Africans and Chinese over here working in the mines?

I've worked with people who live in Queensland that fly over to Perth at their own cost to work in mines up north here too.

And that is probably the biggest issue...no one willing to travel to work.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

That's gold - they picked up the biggest piece of the pie with the GCIF, and are still crying poor - what was that about $200m profit...?

As much as people like to bag Ford and suggest they aren't doing the right thing - I think their reasoning is further confirmed by these latest articles...It wasn't viable to start off with, and it's even less viable now...but what on earth were they planning to do once the GCIF came to an end? Keep running at a loss, and expecting more 'incentives' to stay in Australia?

It seems from that article that Holden are trying to hold the country to ransom, perhaps they could start functioning within their means like other manufacturers already are...?

Manufacturing is incredibly important to the country. We should never be just a quarry and farm majority owned by overseas interests (as we are already) with consumers buying solely imported manufactured goods. But we are heading precipitously down that path. Sad indeed.

But, back to GM Holden. Clearly the $149m AUD they got to build / assemble the Cruze here in Australia has effectively let them charge a Korean price on 30,000 sales a year for perhaps up to 2 years. Now they are crying poor after 3 months of production. Trying to get the next cheque in order.

Just about everyone on here said it (Australian Cruze assembly) wasn't viable. Seems it is the case. Ford made the right decision to not proceed with an Australian Focus, despite it hurting market share and perception.

Australia will never be the lowest cost producer. We need to make high quality, value added products at reasonable prices. Medium to large cars and SUV's which are using 6-7L/100km should be what we target.

The Territory is a case in point. It's a ripper design. Terrific consumption with the V6 diesel. Quite good consumption with strong performance in the I6 petrol.

GM Holden would've been much better served to build the Captiva here in Australia. It would at least share the engine (poxy 3.0 SIDI) and gearbox.

[naddis01]

"$150 million to design a next generation Commodore"? Surely not the next generation for $150 mill. That would have to only be a facelift wouldn't it?

[Gobes32]

Don't care much for Holden and the way the company is run.

[2011G6E]

So what's this, the fiftieth time that Holden and/or Ford have threatened to "withdraw manufacturing in Australia"...?

They've been dong it, to my recollection, since the late seventies at least.
Someone should do a search of Hansard to see if some politician has mentioned the idea of lowering or dropping the protectionist tarriffs on imported vehicles lately...usually that's the sort of thing that brings the old "We might have to close down in Australia" talk out of the woodwork.

It seems to be a standard threat to the powers-that-be which manufacturers like to wheel out now and then...

Look, we're lucky to have car makers bothering to screw together vehicles for a tiny market in a country with only 21 million people. Sooner or later it is going to become uneconomic and the big companies will start importing cars.
The biggest "protection" they have at the moment is the almost unique-to-Australia restriction on driving new left hand drive cars here. In Europe it isn't a problem, as they have cars from all over the place driving around, left and right hand drive, and they seem to cope. The USA doesn't have a problem with it either, as do most other countries. If they dropped that requirement it would open up a vast number of imports to this country which we cannot access at the moment because they aren't built in RHD for our small market. The Chrysler 300C (and other Chryslers) took years to eventually get sold here in Oz because of this problem.

I'd say Holden will quiet down once the government throws a few blank cheques their way. I'd also predict Ford will follow up with another announcement like this within a month or so.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

They've been dong it, to my recollection, since the late seventies at least.
Someone should do a search of Hansard to see if some politician has mentioned the idea of lowering or dropping the protectionist tarriffs on imported vehicles lately...usually that's the sort of thing that brings the old "We might have to close down in Australia" talk out of the woodwork.

You mean the whole 5% tariff?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by irish2

I earn more in a capital city, working 46 hours a week than I would in the mines working 70 hours a week doing the same job. I travel less than 20 k's to work each day.

It is not easy if you own a house to just bugger off and work in a hell hole in the middle of nowhere. In my line of work I can get more money in Antartica than the mines, but it is still not much more than being in a capital city.

in 2011 a mine worker is earning what mine workers earnt in 1980. . and yep , you can earn in sydney what mine workers earn . employers of mines will stand there on TV in pristinely clean overalls pretending they are blue collar , but solely are getting billions of dollars , whilst whinging on tv that no one wants to work , so they have to import workers who would work for a FEW BUCKS A DAY . Never will they show this side of the equation though . and with other industries falling away from aus, then wages will come down as demand for work increases , soon we will have an electrician to wire a house , and about 15 suits to make sure he did it properly . assuming the ground is level and clean enough for them to inspect the property though , otherwise , a tick and flick .
anyways , the suits at holden will also be competing for work - ( talking or signing letters or pressing enter on a computer ) in industries like jims mowing or saos chinese.

[kezzer]

I know guys from school all earning over 80k a year with no formal education (cept year 10 school), my brothers been working with Rio tinto as a second year engineer (mud doctor) and is earning over 100k a year + free rent and work car. Its not that bad.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by kezzer

I know guys from school all earning over 80k a year with no formal education (cept year 10 school), my brothers been working with Rio tinto as a second year engineer (mud doctor) and is earning over 100k a year + free rent and work car. Its not that bad.

in the 1990's they all would have been earning in excess of 150k , except your brother hed've been on around 225k

[Rockape]

What is this thread about Holden or mine workers? I have worked underground for about 12 years now and some of you have no idea what your talking about.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Rockape

What is this thread about Holden or mine workers? I have worked underground for about 12 years now and some of you have no idea what your talking about.

Yep, every time we go to a coal mine to load the train, I look out the windows at the guys working there and think "I'm on an amazing wage, but you guys earn a lot more than me...but I wouldn't swap your job for mine, you deserve every cent you get for the dangers you face...".

Back to the imports: If the import tariff is "only" 5%, then why are a lot of imported cars worth up to twice here what they sell for overseas? Why do cars that, in Europe for example, are ordinary family cars or taxis, have to be sold here as "luxury prestige" models because of thier price? Using the 300C as an example, in the USA it starts at just under $28,000. Because of our rediculous restrictions on LHD cars, we have to get the specially built RHD version here, but surely that doesn't cover doubling the price for even the base model V6 here...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Back to the imports: If the import tariff is "only" 5%, then why are a lot of imported cars worth up to twice here what they sell for overseas? Why do cars that, in Europe for example, are ordinary family cars or taxis, have to be sold here as "luxury prestige" models because of thier price? Using the 300C as an example, in the USA it starts at just under $28,000. Because of our rediculous restrictions on LHD cars, we have to get the specially built RHD version here, but surely that doesn't cover doubling the price for even the base model V6 here...

The same reason that we pay more for a lot of things in Australia (designer clothes, shoes, heavy machinery). Its because they know Australians will pay the premium. No tariff isn't gonna change this its also the reason that our car market while quite small has so many different brands here.