Chrysler to Release a Cheaper SRT8...

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Value for money, the SRT has it in spades, good performance and the technology to back it up. Some here may consider it "gimmicky" but are those people still listening to cassettes and AM radio?

I'm not sure about now, but until very recently, even the top of the range Lexus still had a cassette player. When we bought our 2004 Landcruiser 100 Series, I was shocked to see a six disc CD stacker, AM/FM radio, and cassette player in the factory double DIN stereo unit in the dash. It also had an "auxiliary" plug inlet in the front.
I commented on this to the Toyota guy, and he showed us a new Lexus, a big one, which also had the cassette, albeit in a much more high-end head unit. He said they did customer focus studies, which showed what the consumer wanted in their next purchase. One of the most popular requests was "a cassette playing capability", so they did it. This was in mid-2008.

Back on topic: "value for money" also means "resale value". From what I've seen, the resale value of a 300C is retained better than a Falcon or Commodore, even higher end ones like FPV's or HSV's...come trade-in time, they're seen as "just another Falcon/Commodore", and nothing special. That's why we'll be selling our G6E privately instead of trading it when we sell next year..as a trade in, even a G6E with all the fruit is not worth much.

[GTP534]

I love my R-Spec.

It's not a daily driver and when I do drive it I like to have the front windows down (when it's not too hot!) and just enjoy the sounds it makes and the way it moves. It's really solid, sits nice on the road and I've got no complaints about panel fit, squeaks, rattles, etc. And, I think it looks rather classy on the inside compared to the SRT8.

Because of this I don't miss the technical and other goodies the Chrysler has.

If it was a daily driver I think it would be a different story where I would place more emphasis on the creature comforts.

Enticing it may be but I do have my doubts about "quality" of the new 300's. I had a very close look at 3 SRT8's and went for a test drive. On all 3 the alignment of the front guards with the panel across the top of the headlights is mismatched, the bonnet of 1 was lower than the adjacent front guard and the front wheelarch extensions were coming adrift where they follow the curve of the front skirt.

Despite all that I did sign up for one but got cold feet and decided to cancel the SRT8 rather than cancel the order for the R-Spec.

So the 300 has definitely stirred the marketplace.

Buyers like me are probably in the small minority so it seems Ford (and Holden) will need to lift their game for more mainstream buyers.

We should keep in mind that Ford has invested in the "compliance" area of Broadmeadows so the technical goodies and creature comforts that Fords in Europe and America have had for some time should, hopefully, flow on to Falcon.

Time will tell.

[Sioso]

I had a quick look at the SRT8 online before buying my GT-P, I really wanted a factory supercharged V8 as I'd never owned one or driven one.

I usually prefer manuals but wanted an auto and had owned 2 ZF equipped cars previously and knew it was a good box that I am happy to live with.

All the "additional extras" that come with the SRT8 didn't sway me because I usually read the drivers manual and play with the gadgets for the first 2 days and then never touch them or think of them again.....too busy driving to worry about all that stuff.

I was a bit let down by the fit and finish of the GTP after jumping out of a MK6 GTI but the feel and sound of that intoxicating engine has erased that from my memory.

SRT8 looks to be a great car, especially with the 392ci motor but it's not for me.

P.S. I crack the two front windows down just an inch to stop the buffeting and put both rear windows all the way down........sounds great with the bimodal disconnected.

[russellw]

I enjoyed my 4 years of ownership with the previous model SRT8 - it was far from perfect and while it stacked up well on paper the reality was that some corners were cut to achieve the price. Hardly unusual but not what you expect for a claimed performance car.

I see they have fixed at least one of those (the absence of the LSD) but it looks like the brakes are still as dodgy as they were (no staggered pistons, cheap rotors); the 5 speed transmission was past it's day in 2006 when the previous one came out and they still persist with the performance limiting 20" rubber.

Given the pricing of the current SRT8 puts it line ball with the upper end of the HSV / FPV ranges it makes sense to take a leaf out of their books and use a lower spec model as an entry level. Interesting that, unlike FPV, they'll probably not change power for the lower model so it will no doubt be a bit quicker.

We should consider ourselves fortunate in this era to have such a range of choices - we really will remember this as a golden age for performance enthusiasts once they have been legislated / marketed / ostracised (take your pick) out of existence.

Cheers
Russ

[Rodge]

Agree with much of that but not sure what you're getting at with the cheap rotors Russ ?, last time i checked it got 360 and 350 mm Brembo 4 pot brakes front and rear respectivly and the Goodyear F1 245/45/20 rubber is top shelf stuff, (Autocar N.Z. got a 31 metre braking measurement from 100 km/hr, their best in a SC GT was 35 metres). Good that the tyres can be rotated, different sizes back to front isn't all its cracked up to be, (these SC cars chew the inside and outside front tyre edges and the back tyres are gone in a flash).

Glad to see they're retaining the same Brembo brakes on the cut price SRT8 model, and not doing a FPV...how they can fit those brakes on a GS with a straight face and wave you out the door as you drive off i'll never know...

[russellw]

They are big enough certainly but they aren't a decent quality pillar vented rotor like the Rossini's FPV used in the early days. The plus side of that is that they are cheap to replace (~$150) but the down side is that they don't dissipate heat very well.

The absence of staggered piston sizes means that the piston on the leading edge does the bulk of the work so you might as well only have two single pot calipers anyway. Proof of that was in the wedge shaped brake pads that came out of mine!

The different sized F1's on the earlier version didn't matter much - they didn't last long enough to rotate anyway and were best replaced with 275/40 all round.

I don't object to stuff wearing out quickly when it is designed to be sacrificial as an aid to performance but cheap *** rotors with poor venting and saving a few bucks on basic Brembo calipers is not my idea of where cost saving should be exercised.

Cheers
Russ

[Mighty Reds]

^ Damn cats have me mesmerized.

(Sorry continue the topic)

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by csv8

“It takes away a lot of the content, reduces the price but keeps the performance – matter of fact the car is actually quicker because it's lighter,” says Gilles.

Wow, that's amazing Mr Gilles.

Last time I checked your average muscle car didn't need heated seats or even an 8.4" touch screen.

My 06 BF XR8 doesn't have climate control, just a little dial that you turn with your left hand to set the temps every time you get in the car.

No fancy touchscreen here, just a monochrome panel which tells you what radio station your listening to and the CD track number of your favourite Led Zepp song for when it's raining outside and you have to keep the windows up.

Reversing cameras?... I prefer looking back.

Radar cruise control?... how 'bout you keep your eyes on the road !!

Keyless start... hahaha how about this, you put the key in the ignition and use all your might to turn it and the car magically starts... amazing stuff hey?

Adjustable suspension? ..really?... I thought the SRT8 was a muscle car, not an F1 car!!

And this part is bordering on pathetic... 347kW and only 175kW/tonne?... please, my 5 year old XR8 has more than that !!

I was waiting at the lights the other day and this chic on her racer (bike) was just staring at my car, I thought to myself, must be my bonnet bulge.

My point is, muscle cars are about noise, performance and looks, everything else is just a distraction.

Good on Chrysler Aus for doing this though, I don't know about you but a 4350 pound muscle car does sound kinda silly if you ask me.

[EFFalcon]

Thanks for the reminder about why the Chrysler is so much better then an BF XR8.

[Franco Cozzo]

All those extra gadgets would sell me on the 300C over the other offerings, but I'm not in that market and most likely wouldn't be as I've got no interest in V8s.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Wow, that's amazing Mr Gilles.

Last time I checked your average muscle car didn't need heated seats or even an 8.4" touch screen.

My 06 BF XR8 doesn't have climate control, just a little dial that you turn with your left hand to set the temps every time you get in the car.

No fancy touchscreen here, just a monochrome panel which tells you what radio station your listening to and the CD track number of your favourite Led Zepp song for when it's raining outside and you have to keep the windows up.

Reversing cameras?... I prefer looking back.

Radar cruise control?... how 'bout you keep your eyes on the road !!

Keyless start... hahaha how about this, you put the key in the ignition and use all your might to turn it and the car magically starts... amazing stuff hey?

Adjustable suspension? ..really?... I thought the SRT8 was a muscle car, not an F1 car!!

And this part is bordering on pathetic... 347kW and only 175kW/tonne?... please, my 5 year old XR8 has more than that !!

I was waiting at the lights the other day and this chic on her racer (bike) was just staring at my car, I thought to myself, must be my bonnet bulge.

My point is, muscle cars are about noise, performance and looks, everything else is just a distraction.

Good on Chrysler Aus for doing this though, I don't know about you but a 4350 pound muscle car does sound kinda silly if you ask me.

Why stop there?

Why do you need power steering? Or are you too weak to turn the wheel yourself?

What about winding the old crank to get it started, I mean that worked too, bah these stupid electrics in cars, who needs all that?

indicators? what's wrong with hand signals?

[Maka]

I wonder if Chrysler / Fiat would be losing money building those srt's & offering them to Australia at that price point?

[Rodge]

Russ, thanks for unpacking the brake thing. The FPV 6/4 Brembo's are a super piece of kit and I love them, I agree with many comments on this forum that they're really progrssive and have fantastic feel so its good to unpack the difference a bit and yeah now that you mention it I did notice when I drove the SRT8 that the brakes didn't have anything like the progressiveness / feel of the FPV's Brembo's. Definitly give a big plus on that score to the FPV camp.

That said, my dealer warned me when I bought my car, new genuine Brembo rotors and brembo pads for the front of my car are $6,000 Kiwi fitted, retail, which given that I understand the rotors are now made in Australia under licence seems OTT so you'd want the 6/4 set up to be bloody brilliant at that price wouldn't you !!

Circa $150 rotor replacement sounds like a sweet dream to me by comparison as long as they don't warp from the heat ? Did you experience any rotor warpage ? (I would hate to have to re-live the rotor warping drama's of my BA Turbo days)

[mcnews]

Aftermarket rotors that are better than what FPVs come with can be had for about $1250 a pair Rodge and pads about $350. You are looking at about $1750 for new pads/rotors fitted.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Why stop there?

Why do you need power steering? Or are you too weak to turn the wheel yourself?

What about winding the old crank to get it started, I mean that worked too, bah these stupid electrics in cars, who needs all that?

indicators? what's wrong with hand signals?

Now now, let's not go overboard, you'll get booked for sticking your arm out the window.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Wow, that's amazing Mr Gilles.

Last time I checked your average muscle car didn't need heated seats or even an 8.4" touch screen.

My 06 BF XR8 doesn't have climate control, just a little dial that you turn with your left hand to set the temps every time you get in the car.

No fancy touchscreen here, just a monochrome panel which tells you what radio station your listening to and the CD track number of your favourite Led Zepp song for when it's raining outside and you have to keep the windows up.

Reversing cameras?... I prefer looking back.

Radar cruise control?... how 'bout you keep your eyes on the road !!

Keyless start... hahaha how about this, you put the key in the ignition and use all your might to turn it and the car magically starts... amazing stuff hey?

Adjustable suspension? ..really?... I thought the SRT8 was a muscle car, not an F1 car!!

And this part is bordering on pathetic... 347kW and only 175kW/tonne?... please, my 5 year old XR8 has more than that !!

I was waiting at the lights the other day and this chic on her racer (bike) was just staring at my car, I thought to myself, must be my bonnet bulge.

My point is, muscle cars are about noise, performance and looks, everything else is just a distraction.

Good on Chrysler Aus for doing this though, I don't know about you but a 4350 pound muscle car does sound kinda silly if you ask me.

I would agree with you on all but the electronically adjustable suspension. Sometimes I don't want to corner flat and fast, I just want the damn thing to be soft and compliant after a hard days work.


In terms of what Ford could do to combat this... I say turn up the boost, and make 335 the GS standard. Then a 315kw can finally become an XR8.

[GQ_Smooth]

Originally Posted by Maka

I wonder if Chrysler / Fiat would be losing money building those srt's & offering them to Australia at that price point?

It's not the price of the car that will be a problem for Chrysler, there is more than enough margin built into the car being a global platform for them. However, I am relatively confident there is not enough margin for Fiat/Chrysler to handle normal warranty claims and stock enough parts inventory for the 300 range. This is what will hurt the brand when people have to wait and unacceptable time to have their vehicles back on the road(still open for debate what is an acceptable time 2 weeks it normally the longest you should need to wait for a part that doesn't need to be sea freighted).

This happens to all brands (obviously), the wait on premium brands if anything can be longer, the dealerships just find other ways of keeping their customers satisfied during the wait. You will find Fiat / Chrysler will be near the worst on the list when it comes to waiting on parts.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

It's not the price of the car that will be a problem for Chrysler, there is more than enough margin built into the car being a global platform for them. However, I am relatively confident there is not enough margin for Fiat/Chrysler to handle normal warranty claims and stock enough parts inventory for the 300 range. This is what will hurt the brand when people have to wait and unacceptable time to have their vehicles back on the road(still open for debate what is an acceptable time 2 weeks it normally the longest you should need to wait for a part that doesn't need to be sea freighted).

This happens to all brands (obviously), the wait on premium brands if anything can be longer, the dealerships just find other ways of keeping their customers satisfied during the wait. You will find Fiat / Chrysler will be near the worst on the list when it comes to waiting on parts.

Well put GQ, i'de absolutelty be spewin' to find that my new "Baby" had to spend weeks & weeks in a workshop waiting for parts- it pays to do your research "thoroughly" lol before buying a new car!

cheers, Maka

[Rodge]

And this part is bordering on pathetic... 347kW and only 175kW/tonne?... please, my 5 year old XR8 has more than that !!

Its getting consistent 4.8's 0-100 km's which before the SC R Spec came along is enough to see off any Australian production car before it, F6's and normal SC 335's included.

Its a muscle car cruiser...did you know cars are actually allowed to morph into new things now we're in the 21st century...

Who needs technology....well I guess we should all go back to wind down windows, no air conditioning, cassette players, no ABS, no DSC or air bags or even crash intrusion beams then. That's certain to make it lighter and go faster

Trev - Yeah hadn't actually planned to get the brembo's replaced at the Ford dealer, who would at that price but I'm interested to hear from Russ as to how those $150 rotors held up under pressure. You can't get a decent rotor for that price surely ?

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Its getting consistent 4.8's 0-100 km's which before the SC R Spec came along is enough to see off any Australian production car before it, F6's and normal SC 335's included.

Its a muscle car cruiser...did you know cars are actually allowed to morph into new things now we're in the 21st century...

Who needs technology....well I guess we should all go back to wind down windows, no air conditioning, cassette players, no ABS, no DSC or air bags or even crash intrusion beams then. That's certain to make it lighter and go faster

Rodge, I agree that muscle cars do "morph" and hopefully for the better.

My view is that most tech gadgets in cars today seem to want to take the responsibility off the driver causing the driver to become lazy and possibly even pompous.

Air con serves a purpose, keeps you cool in summer.

ABS has shown to be safer than cars without it, even airbags are effective in some crashes.

CD's have proven to produce better sound quality than cassette's. (by the way, I have a 12kg 300W sub woofer in the boot of my car and that serves a purpose too )

Power windows also serve a purpose, they make you look cool in your muscle car cruiser.

And while an 8.4" touchscreen is a nice feature to have in your muscle car cruiser, did you also know it's illegal to use a touchscreen device while the vehicle is in motion?

I'm not even going to comment on the "fuel-saving" feature fitted to that 6.4L V8 !!

Anyways, that's just my view and I'm not bashing the SRT8, most muscle car cruisers today have unnecessary luxury gadgets that we really don't need but think is cool to have.

Each to their own but I wonder how fast that SRT8 would be if it had a 1750kg kerb weight !!

[greenfoam]

I'd happily buy a FG or VE V8 with no sound deadener, no carpet, no air con, only front seats, a manual box and I might even option the radio if the price was right. You end up pulling all that stuff out eventually anyway

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Rodge, I agree that muscle cars do "morph" and hopefully for the better.

My view is that most tech gadgets in cars today seem to want to take the responsibility off the driver causing the driver to become lazy and possibly even pompous.

Air con serves a purpose, keeps you cool in summer.

ABS has shown to be safer than cars without it, even airbags are effective in some crashes.

CD's have proven to produce better sound quality than cassette's. (by the way, I have a 12kg 300W sub woofer in the boot of my car and that serves a purpose too )

Power windows also serve a purpose, they make you look cool in your muscle car cruiser.

And while an 8.4" touchscreen is a nice feature to have in your muscle car cruiser, did you also know it's illegal to use a touchscreen device while the vehicle is in motion?

I'm not even going to comment on the "fuel-saving" feature fitted to that 6.4L V8 !!

Anyways, that's just my view and I'm not bashing the SRT8, most muscle car cruisers today have unnecessary luxury gadgets that we really don't need but think is cool to have.

Each to their own but I wonder how fast that SRT8 would be if it had a 1750kg kerb weight !!

People generally like technology, you can debate forever whether its necessary or not but it helps sell cars. Porsche are the specalist at the light weight strip out models and are happy to strip out all sorts of so called unnecessary kit all the way down to the radio and charge you many, many thousands, (tens of thousands of dollars ?) extra for the privilidge...what a rort..at least with this model Chrysler are making no bones about it, its lighter with slightly less tech, faster and about 10% cheaper.

No didn't know its illegal to use a touch screen device while driving but I've always thought fiddling with various buttons while driving was pretty dangerous too so can't really see any material difference there.

As for the cylinder de-activation technology in the SRT8 the official extra urban consumption of this vehicle is 8.7 L/100 km's and this compares to 9.8 L/100 km's for the SC FPV's, 12.6% more... you be the judge whether this technology works or not but it seems to me it does.

Regarding how the SRT8 would go if it was 1750 kg's, well that would be the theoretical model stripped of every last piece of current technology that's in the car....I wouldn't want that but I think FPV cater better to that market with a dry weight for a stock SC GT of 1,788 kg's you could take the spare wheel out and you'd almost be there

I like latest technology and comfort as well as good performance and handling, we're all different...2014 model FPV's should have adaptive cruise and blind spot assist too, so they think this technology is valuable its just that they're slow in getting it here.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Bent8

And while an 8.4" touchscreen is a nice feature to have in your muscle car cruiser, did you also know it's illegal to use a touchscreen device while the vehicle is in motion?

I that still the case? I thought the new changes about mobiles / GPS / Ipods etc being in a 'fixed cradle' meant you were fine to touch the screen, but not hold or handle them???

Surely a built in 'factory' device can be used while the car is moving?

[csv8]

From 1 November 2012 the mobile phone laws will be changed.
What do the mobile phone laws mean for you?

While your vehicle is moving or stationary (but not parked), as a driver you may only use a mobile phone to make or receive a call or use the audio playing function if:

the mobile phone is secured in a fixed mounting; or
the mobile phone does not require you to touch or manipulate the phone in any way.

All other functions including texting, video messaging, online chatting, reading preview messages and emailing are prohibited.

While your vehicle is moving or stationary (but not parked), as a driver you must not hold your mobile phone in your hand other than to pass the phone to a passenger.

A mobile phone’s GPS (or other driver’s aid) function may only be used if:

the phone is secured in a commercially designed and manufactured fixed mounting, and
the mounting is fixed in a location that will not distract or obscure your view in any way, and
the use of the driver’s aid does not distract you from driving or from being in proper control of your vehicle.

[Yellow_Festiva]

...as a driver you may only use a mobile phone to make or receive a call or use the audio playing function if:

the mobile phone is secured in a fixed mounting; or
the mobile phone does not require you to touch or manipulate the phone in any way.

Thanks for that.

So, the way it reads, you can touch your phone to listen to music as long as it's held in a cradle???

Says nothing about built in devices. Still assuming using a factory touch screen is allowed, yes?

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Wow, that's amazing Mr Gilles.

Last time I checked your average muscle car didn't need heated seats or even an 8.4" touch screen.

My 06 BF XR8 doesn't have climate control, just a little dial that you turn with your left hand to set the temps every time you get in the car.

No fancy touchscreen here, just a monochrome panel which tells you what radio station your listening to and the CD track number of your favourite Led Zepp song for when it's raining outside and you have to keep the windows up.

Reversing cameras?... I prefer looking back.

Radar cruise control?... how 'bout you keep your eyes on the road !!

Keyless start... hahaha how about this, you put the key in the ignition and use all your might to turn it and the car magically starts... amazing stuff hey?

Adjustable suspension? ..really?... I thought the SRT8 was a muscle car, not an F1 car!!

And this part is bordering on pathetic... 347kW and only 175kW/tonne?... please, my 5 year old XR8 has more than that !!

I was waiting at the lights the other day and this chic on her racer (bike) was just staring at my car, I thought to myself, must be my bonnet bulge.

My point is, muscle cars are about noise, performance and looks, everything else is just a distraction.

Good on Chrysler Aus for doing this though, I don't know about you but a 4350 pound muscle car does sound kinda silly if you ask me.

this post basically sums up exactly what ive been thinking this whole thread with the topic of the srt having so many gadgets. I mean its seriously beyond a joke for a muscle car to be this FAT. The luxo models yeah...but the performance models...meh...kinda destroys all the feng shwey of the car

[Rodge]

I can remember when people thought ABS brakes, dynamic stability control, crash intrusion beams, climate air conditioning and such like were considered wasteful technology and not needed by real men for real cars.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I can remember when people thought ABS brakes, dynamic stability control, crash intrusion beams, climate air conditioning and such like were considered wasteful technology and not needed by real men for real cars.

It's not needed when it's not available on Falcon variants

[nstg8a]

If so many people are lamenting the end of the stripped out muscle car then why aren't the supercharged gs's flying out the door?

They're basically the same spec as my xr8 gadget wise with no options... And that's a pretty no frills package.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I can remember when people thought ABS brakes, dynamic stability control, crash intrusion beams, climate air conditioning and such like were considered wasteful technology and not needed by real men for real cars.

I take a car to the track that has none of those things. I'm still in one piece.