Australian fuel efficiency standards aimed at cutting petrol bills, 'catching up' with US

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Yep, and Mike Hudema. What’s their financial gain pushing these proposed measures, as nothing these lot do is without financial benefit.

This bodes very poorly for Ford, with 80% (approximately) of their sales in Australia being Ranger and Everest. I wonder how long Ford US decide to pull the plug on Australia’s market.

The government want to push the citizenry to drive the cheap, dangerous junk coming out of China (think BYD).

Interesting times ahead. About people got off their backsides and told their local MP’s they don’t support a measure forced in such a short time frame.

Aren't the diesel utes exempted/on a different emissions scheme?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Aren't the diesel utes exempted/on a different emissions scheme?

The "new" Euro 6A, which is already a decade old, comes into play in 2025 with a grace period till 2028 which will affect diesel utes as well.

This new fleet emissions will also apply as an added incentive to clean up emissions.

Quicker we get brands to **** off junk diesels with numerous components that fail (DPF, EGR, overpriced injectors running 30,000 PSI, etc) the better.

[mick taylor]

I thought that VW were only trying to improve the fuel economy of that product that they got caught with, that was deemed so toxic and numbers came up of how many people would die from such pollution ? but they got fined !
Not to mention i believe it still passed the standards set for the year before the new standards ?

But then again here in Aus people love to go and block off the EGR with no regard at all.

I come across many old and even new diesel 4X4's that stink and blow smoke. that i shut off the fresh air, even sitting at the red lights, they stink !

Not all Diesel's stink, some smell fine, more like Kero smell burning clean as !

[kypez]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

I thought that VW were only trying to improve the fuel economy of that product that they got caught with, that was deemed so toxic and numbers came up of how many people would die from such pollution ? but they got fined !

Not to mention i believe it still passed the standards set for the year before the new standards ?



But then again here in Aus people love to go and block off the EGR with no regard at all.



I come across many old and even new diesel 4X4's that stink and blow smoke. that i shut off the fresh air, even sitting at the red lights, they stink !



Not all Diesel's stink, some smell fine, more like Kero smell burning clean as !

DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) delete is the most common thing they do. That's when you see them pumping out the black smoke out the back. I usually report them to the EPA

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

I come across many old and even new diesel 4X4's that stink and blow smoke. that i shut off the fresh air, even sitting at the red lights, they stink !

in many cases owner has simply cranked up the pressure on the old mechanical fuel pumps to try and get more performance. Unfortunately, without increasing airflow, all this does is chuck smoke out of the back as the car runs rich.

[Hemihunter]

Germany - Compared to December 2023, sales of new electric vehicles were down 54.9 percent, while sales of plug-in hybrids were down 19.6 percent in the first month of 2024. On the other hand, the markets for vehicles with internal combustion engines were up more than 9 percent — +9.1 percent for gas, +9.5 percent for diesel.

No incentives anymore , could that be the sole reason ?

[Citroënbender]

Interesting statistic, do you think it augurs a trend?

In terms of “catching up to the US” we seem to not be slowing in our love for landfill waste.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Interesting statistic, do you think it augurs a trend?

Exactly. 1 month is hardly a trend.

[Hemihunter]

its still a trend

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Interesting statistic, do you think it augurs a trend?

In terms of “catching up to the US” we seem to not be slowing in our love for landfill waste.

Originally Posted by kypez

Exactly. 1 month is hardly a trend.

As said above, Germany ending cash incentives for buyers of BEVs, so yeah
there could be a lot more to this now that prices paid have increased.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Aligns with Germany ending cash incentives for buyers of BEVs, so yeah there could be a lot more to this….

When the US dropped their subsidies, manufacturers dropped their price too. Manufacturers who came to market with a proper strategy and not being dependant on subsidies to make their cars affordable will be fine.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

As said above, Germany ending cash incentives for buyers of BEVs, so yeah
there could be a lot more to this now that prices paid have increased.

There's been a shift too, US middle class consumer is showing resistance and EVs stacking up on the lots, we've got news like Polestar being valued at zero, for some reason channels like TFL are showing drawbacks like with their zero temperature tests, Ford, GM and VW are backpedalling to hybrid, masses of EVs in lots in China, Tesla is lowering prices, energy and rare earths miners are being keelhauled, it's a different mass-psychology at present.

[Hemihunter]

Volvo will suffer ... go woke go broke

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

Volvo will suffer ... go woke go broke

They won't. Polestar is redundant given they're using the same Volvo platforms. Polestar's problems aren't Volvo's

EX90 will do very well for them as well as the EX60.

[Sprintey]

Yeah I can't tell where this will end - will the legislative driven changeover occur and the technology future will continue to be inevitable, or will countries back down from globalisation into self interest and abandon the targets, using the sovereign energy they have domestically which for a lot of them is still oil and gas? Could all the negative press be opinion-influencing, or could it actually reflect the real-life reality many people are experiencing?

Fascinating times.

If you are concerned about the CO2, the sheer amount of new coal plants going in in the northern hemisphere will cook the goose anyway, it's an enormous amount of CO2, truly stupendous compared to historical amounts, enjoy each day you can.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

Germany - Compared to December 2023,

why do people keep comparing anything to December sales? It's never a typical month for anything.

Edit

EV sales were dropping in Germany for months before this

[kypez]

Originally Posted by simon varley

why do people keep comparing anything to December sales? It's never a typical month for anything.

It's convenient when you have an agenda

[Hemihunter]

I think the comparison they are making is not about Dec figures alone, its how they relate to the rebates ending vs Sales for the same period and how the trend is leaning without an agenda.

[real time]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

I think the comparison they are making is not about Dec figures alone, its how they relate to the rebates ending vs Sales for the same period and how the trend is leaning without an agenda.

Maybe ppl are starting to realise all that glitters is not gold

[Sprintey]

Harry's Garage - Harry breaks down why he has gone from EV to PHEV and back to diesel in co$$$t terms, and then takes a look at the market and depreciation over there at present:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) delete is the most common thing they do. That's when you see them pumping out the black smoke out the back. I usually report them to the EPA

Its ironic, I was following my own truck, which is a pre-emissions mechanically injected 8.3L diesel engine, and the only time it blew smoke was a tiny puff on gear changes,

The thing has 300,000km on the clock, is over 25 years old, has no electronics and its cleaner out the exhaust black smoke wise than a diesel Territory.



Or maybe its just because the hole is bigger so it disperses the smoke better

[simon varley]

even when new, the calibration on the diesel terry was embarassing :(

I don't know if it was launched as Eu3 or 4, but regardless the internal requirement was for 'no visible smoke'

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its ironic, I was following my own truck, which is a pre-emissions mechanically injected 8.3L diesel engine, and the only time it blew smoke was a tiny puff on gear changes…

So, you’re saying it vapes rather than smokes?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Harry's Garage - Harry breaks down why he has gone from EV to PHEV and back to diesel in co$$$t terms, and then takes a look at the market and depreciation over there at present:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw

Why do we keep quoting UK and US people for their questionable motivated videos to be some kind of gospel.

Literally everyone I know who has gone EV hasn't looked back. There will always be outliers and those looking for clicks.

If the video said why "I'm never going to back to a ICE" vs "why I'm ditching my EV", which would get more clicks?

That video was just an Ad for Range Rover.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

even when new, the calibration on the diesel terry was embarassing :(

I don't know if it was launched as Eu3 or 4, but regardless the internal requirement was for 'no visible smoke'

Must have been Stevie Wonder who signed off on it then because those things chaff like nobodies business when you get on the throttle

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

So, you’re saying it vapes rather than smokes?

Its going to look like the 2019/2020 bushfires out the exhaust when I'm driving it, don't worry.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kypez

Why do we keep quoting UK and US people for their questionable motivated videos to be some kind of gospel.

Literally everyone I know who has gone EV hasn't looked back. There will always be outliers and those looking for clicks.

If the video said why "I'm never going to back to a ICE" vs "why I'm ditching my EV", which would get more clicks?

That video was just an Ad for Range Rover.

It actually included a discussion on how the EV market and used market is going there, tried to explain private buyer reluctance, noted the influence of depreciation and insurance on used prices, noted the view of the trade on used EVs - and then at the end posted suggestions on how to overcome this and increase EV takeup.

It concluded to do this similar efficiency standards would be needed as done before by legislation on diesel and petrol, these efficiency standards being standardised electricity consumption data (it noted Tesla as most efficient); and it pointed out legislation and business claims have led to the development of many expensive, performance EVs which are different to the simple, smaller and affordable a private used market wants - hence not many bids, hence horror depreciation.

One other good point was that in future, for the trade and wholesalers/used dealers to be happy to take EVs as stock, displaying their battery health using a standardised method, clearly on the vehicles at the yard will be a prerequisite to overcome used buyer reluctance.

There was a lot more to it than the new, diesel RRS.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

It actually included a discussion on how the EV market and used market is going there, tried to explain private buyer reluctance, noted the influence of depreciation and insurance on used prices, noted the view of the trade on used EVs - and then at the end posted suggestions on how to overcome this and increase EV takeup.

It concluded to do this similar efficiency standards would be needed as done before by legislation on diesel and petrol, these efficiency standards being standardised electricity consumption data (it noted Tesla as most efficient); and it pointed out legislation and business claims have led to the development of many expensive, performance EVs which are different to the simple, smaller and affordable a private used market wants - hence not many bids, hence horror depreciation.

One other good point was that in future, for the trade and wholesalers/used dealers to be happy to take EVs as stock, displaying their battery health using a standardised method, clearly on the vehicles at the yard will be a prerequisite to overcome used buyer reluctance.

There was a lot more to it than the new, diesel RRS.

But in Australia, EV resale (on anything except the i Pace) is great. That we don't have conditions that make EVs drop range and have huge amounts of solar (at home too) to power them.

The resale of my EVs are still very strong locally. There is no reluctance of private buyers. The only ones reluctant and those who either don't understand technology, don't buy new or don't want things to change. Anyone with even a modestly open view to the world will see they have their place and are great at what transport issues they address.

UK have a problem in that most of the insurance companies have been found to be bank rolled by big oil and are pushing EV premiums up to get people out of them. We don't have that issue here.

I agree with him that you'd be crazy to buy the EV Range Rover at the premium they want. You'd also be crazy to entertain that the iPace was a good idea and buying any Range Rover is a good decision given how poor their reliability is.

Euros problems aren't ours.

Misinformation is why people hesitate. First it was they last only 50,000 kms. When I hit that they said, wait till you get to 100,000. Then it was 150,000...

[Sprintey]

"The significant growth in new electric vehicle (EV) sales has seen the values of used EVs plummet in many countries around the world, including Australia.

Here, resale values of EVs declined by more 21 per cent in the 12 months to January 2024 – meaning a used EV depreciates more than its internal combustion engine (ICE) equivalent."

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...xperts-144507/

That's 3 days ago, Australian media.

Interesting to raise insurance-oil links, that would be worth investigating. I think if used prices are falling heaps the insurance companies would want to protect themselves at any rate.

In Harry's video, at 13:30ish there was a mention of Bjorn Nyland (iirc) who has kept records of different brands of EV and how their batteries deteriorate - again, Tesla does well. That was useful to see, too.

[ozpacman]

I'm just stockpilin' AUs!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

"The significant growth in new electric vehicle (EV) sales has seen the values of used EVs plummet in many countries around the world, including Australia.



Here, resale values of EVs declined by more 21 per cent in the 12 months to January 2024 – meaning a used EV depreciates more than its internal combustion engine (ICE) equivalent."



https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...xperts-144507/



That's 3 days ago, Australian media.



Interesting to raise insurance-oil links, that would be worth investigating. I think if used prices are falling heaps the insurance companies would want to protect themselves at any rate.



In Harry's video, at 13:30ish there was a mention of Bjorn Nyland (iirc) who has kept records of different brands of EV and how their batteries deteriorate - again, Tesla does well. That was useful to see, too.

Again. Australian media will follow the hype. Yes, resale has fallen as supply has increased. People were flipping Raptors and Rav4's for $10k profits as were people with EVs. That is gone. That doesn't mean it's fallen rather than the inflated market has been restored.