Do some manufacturers actually want to sell cars?

[WOLF]

Deciding which dealer you go to is just as important as deciding what car you want. Research is your best friend! When I decided I wanted to by a ford, I spoke to atleast 5 or 6 people who bought one recently. I too was amazed at some of the horror salesman/yard stories I heard, but sure enuff a certain ford dealer and salesman for that matter were spoken of quite highly.
I could've easily chosen from 3 other ford dealers (all within 10 mins from me), but I cut out the bullИИИИe and travelled half way across melb to the recommended one. I asked for a drive of a brand new bf xr8 ute with zf6sp (this was last november) which was parked in the yard. Trouble was that there was about 17 other cars that had to be moved out of its path so that I could take it for a drive.
I twas certain they were gonna tell me to come some other time, so I couldn't believe it when the guy preceeded to tell another 4 salesman to drop everything and start moving all those cars....All went well and signed on that day!
At a time where downsizing (under staffed) and making a buck (they think the cars will sell themselves) are the bottom line, we must be smarter, do our homework and give the hard earned to those who make the effort! If it means travelling the state to get the best service and avoid some subhuman treatment, I say go for it!

[qwigybo]

robscure... any chance of pm'ing me the dealer address and salesmans name

[all4ford]

Originally Posted by Redrum

One thing I have noticed from buying 13 new Fords over the last 10 years is that none of the sales people actually really know anything about their products. They know the price and options etc, but don't really have any passion, like we do here at the forum. Would be awesome to go to a salesperson that can talk about Fords because he is passionate about them and can talk the talk. When I bought my Turbo and was talking stats with sales staff they offered me a job.......

True, I actually had an argument with a mate one day over the power an XR6T makes from factory and I said 240kw with BA both series, and he told me that his mate from Ford told him that series one was 230kw and series two 240kw. I said he deserves the ***!!

[EA2BA]

Originally Posted by all4ford

True, I actually had an argument with a mate one day over the power an XR6T makes from factory and I said 240kw with BA both series, and he told me that his mate from Ford told him that series one was 230kw and series two 240kw. I said he deserves the ***!!

Money says thats how he gets people to buy a series2 over a series1 sleep:

[XR8 queen]

I live in a tiny remote country town bout 26kms from the nearest town. When we decided to buy a BA XR8, i just got on the internet and on the blower. I ended up getting the BEST deal in the town 26kms away. The salesman came to my house with an offer that was unmatchable by all the other dealers i had in play. When i think about it, i realise i didnt even SIGHT the car let alone TEST DRIVE it until i had signed and had the keys in me hand!!! (but i LURVE it!!)

[XR8 queen]

Let me add, if i may....this same salesman AFER he had got his cash and whatnot... drives a company car out to my town and picks up my car for any service or whatever and delivers it back. The 1st time i rang to book in for a 1500 service, i asked the service dept if they could pick it up as i have 2 babies under 2 and had no way of getting them back home if i drove my car into them. They said no so i asked the salesman and he readily obliged and still does to this day.
IMHO, thats AWESOME follow up from a salesman cos like i said...he has his cash but he still goes that extra mile for his customers.

[paulvdb]

Originally Posted by JADED6

With some of these stories anyone would think you're asking to take the salesmans own personal car for a drive, complete with his wife in the passenger seat.

I have taken the salespersons car twice with MY wife and kids. Obviously it must depend on the salesperson.

They seem to forget the old maxim that one satisfied customer can mean up to 10 new customers, and one peed-off customer can mean 10 lost customers. Word of mouth is VERY strong these days, particularly with the internet.

[XWGT]

UPDATE

Well, after finally relenting and calling this dealer back for a second time, a test drive of the GT and F6 was organised for yesterday. As part of the qualification our buying criteria was determined and it was plain as day. 4 doors, PERFORMANCE, PERFORMANCE and PERFORMANCE. Sales person says fine, come in, lets drive them.

So we get there. Patiently listen to the 20 minute speal from the salesman who later reveals that he has been selling FPVs for 2 months. Great.

Ok off for a test drive. Well, one slight problem. We cannot leave a grid of inner city streets for insurance reasons, and for health reasons, please dont take the car over 80kph. At this stage, I just basically rolled my eyes and gave up. Dealer then proceeded to see if we wanted to buy right now, with a great deal (quoting a base price of 3k over the advertised base price). He was a little suprised when we said it would be difficult to compare a GT or F6 to a WRX STi or an EVO IX when the cars havent been over 60kph.

FPV I dont get you. I dont understand you. And I no longer support you. You have stuffed me around and disappointed me for the last time. And next time you employ a salesman who proceeds to tell us how many people have got out of their 911's and into GT's as they are the same technology, better build quality and the same performance, I suggest you get them to ask potential buyers what other cars they own. What a tosser.

FPV - what a joke.

[bathurst77]

Nobody likes being stuffed about by time wasters at work.
If,o matter what your job is, you spent time doing something at work, and the person you did it for said "Thanks, but i ont really want it" and threw it in the bin without looking at it, you might question people a bit more next time they ask you.

I have my own computer service business. I know what its like when I spend an hour of my time demonstrating how good windows or a pentium PC or something is, and after that hour the person says,
"thanks for the info, but im not really interested in buying, i was just bored/curious"
or "Thats, great mate", and then he goes round the corner and buys it elsewhere (The big dept store), coz they are 5% cheaper? Then he berates me for being too expensive.

Thats one hour of my wages I have thrown away, to a time waster.
The big store is 5% cheaper coz he spends 5 mins max with each customer, so all his day is making money, while Im sitting there wasting an hour on someone with no intentions of actually paying me.

Time is money to me, just like to a car salesman. They are just working, and like all workers they want to spend their day doing stuff for people willing to pay etc. Selling cars is business, time and effort versus profit.

IF you are just curious/bored, you should say so, and if the salesman is also bored or had a good week or whatever, he might let you have free joyride,

But while he is giving you a jolly, a serious buyer might come in, and there is no salesman or car available, so the buyer goes down the road.

[Falchoon]

I had a mixed experience when I first went to look at XR6T. I just went to the dealer for a look, had no real serious intention of buying and therefore wasn't going to waste the salesman's time asking for a testdrive. Anyway, salesman came up to me and started talking about XR6T and within minutes offered me a (accompanied) test drive. Never one to look a gift horse in the mouth I agreed and off we went. The guy was an ex-Holden salesman and really didn't know that much about the XR6T, admitedly they had only been out for a few months but still...luckily I had been reading up about them on the internet and so knew facts from fiction.

The test car was manual, I actually preferred the auto, he said he didn't have any auto turbos in stock but offered to let me drive an auto XT or Fairmont, which I declined as they would be totally different non-relevant experience without the turbo. After driving the T I was hooked, by hook or crook I had to have one!

So far so good but this is when the BS really started. I asked for a price and he quoted me approx $2K over retail. And then I was asking about various accessories and options (sports wheel, side air bags and lights-on) and because he didn't know about them he told me I didn't need them! Talked me out of several thousand dollars worth of add-ons! :

I ended up getting about $1000 discount off retail after getting my fleet manager at work to negotiate.

I went in dressed in "office clothes", not a suit and no tie, but not shorts and singlet.

A friend went to the opposition dealer, drove in with his AU1 TE50 and asked for a test drive of an XR6T and they wouldn't give him one unless he put a deposit down first!

[gtfpv]

i met some people today with an xr8 nice vehicle with mods i live around penrith i asked them if they bought the car locally no they said our local dealer told us we were too young to buy a high performance car because they have to much power and besides we couldnt afford it . youd be better off buying an xt or futura.
ok they said and went to parramatta and bought the xr8 with full herod mods (optional extras all fitted pre delivery .
funny that so it wasnt just me that had a bad experiance .

[2kool4u]

mmmm Interesting thread, seems some dealers or sales peoples are just tosspots, how could you even dream of buying a car if you haven't driven it, it's like getting married before you have sex!!!

So XWGT, have you decided what kinda car your gonna buy yet?? did you end up test driving the porsche and evo IX??

[XR6Dan]

I bought a secondhand XR6 MkII 4 weeks ago. I went to 6 ford dealers in Brisbane, most we're pretty good.
The worst was a dealer in Woolloongabba, I pulled in, had a look around and spotted a XR6 I liked. I was trading in a 2000 Lancer, the sales guy said he'd give me $3,000 for it (quoted $7,000 to $9,000 elsewhere) and I told him that I only wanted to pay $20k changeover as a starting price. He said "mate, the Lancer's not worth $12,000" end of discussion, didn't even try, which was a pity, really like that one.
There we're two good dealers, Springwood and Darra. Both worked hard, offered test drives and to take the car over the weekend, couldn't do enough for me. Came down to colour and ended up paying $21,500 changeover.
I've always wanted an XR8, but for now I had to settle for a XR6, so needless to say that when I picked up the car I was dancing a little jig in excitement. The sales guy was happy because he doesn't get many customers that get excited or interested in Ford themselves, most just walk in and say "that one will do".
Might explain why somesales guys don't care that much, because most of their customers don't care either.

[Auslandau]

I just cannot beleive the crap that is in here about the dealings people have had!!! The 'I know a mate of a mate's sister that went to a dealer and had a bad experience' Well if you are not happy, go to Holden, or Toyota or Mazda as I have had cars from them and had both lousy and good experiences and been to higher end dealers that bend over back wards to get into my wallet. I have also been to KMart and got crap service and been to David Jones and paid 5 times the amount and been treated diffenent, went to 'all you can eat' and got crap, went to a $250.00 head restuarant and got treated like a King.

I buy a car every 3 years and delt with almost all dealers for 20 years in Melb and had just OK to outstanding dealings with them. From Holden to Ford to Toyota they have a job to do and for the amount of people they get through they do a damn good job I think........"expensive servicing though".....

There are many of these dealers in every suburb and every country town. If you dont like one and you like the product, go else where. If you want a Porshe and you dont like the dealer, well you are in trouble!

If you dont but an FPV or a HSV cos you dont like the salemen, well you dont really want one?



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[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by auslandau

I just cannot beleive the crap that is in here about the dealings people have had!!! The 'I know a mate of a mate's sister that went to a dealer and had a bad experience' Well if you are not happy, go to Holden, or Toyota or Mazda as I have had cars from them and had both lousy and good experiences and been to higher end dealers that bend over back wards to get into my wallet. I have also been to KMart and got crap service and been to David Jones and paid 5 times the amount and been treated diffenent, went to 'all you can eat' and got crap, went to a $250.00 head restuarant and got treated like a King.

I buy a car every 3 years and delt with almost all dealers for 20 years in Melb and had just OK to outstanding dealings with them. From Holden to Ford to Toyota they have a job to do and for the amount of people they get through they do a damn good job I think........"expensive servicing though".....

There are many of these dealers in every suburb and every country town. If you dont like one and you like the product, go else where. If you want a Porshe and you dont like the dealer, well you are in trouble!

If you dont but an FPV or a HSV cos you dont like the salemen, well you dont really want one?

are you serious . i dont like a salesman and wont buy a car off one if he tells me i cant drive it because these cars sell themselves . i think if you fall foir that line your a ИИИИwit.

[2kool4u]

Auslandau, Can't you read???? people wouldn't even let them take a test drive, Would you buy a car you've never driven????

And why would you buy a car from a ****er anyway when you can go to another place and be treated properly!!!!

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by 2kool4u

Auslandau, Can't you read???? people wouldn't even let them take a test drive, Would you buy a car you've never driven????

And why would you buy a car from a ****er anyway when you can go to another place and be treated properly!!!!

My point exactly 2kool4u

There is no way I am going to buy a car without test driving it properly, so FPV lose out.

We test drove the Cayman S, WRX STi and the EVO IX. Looks like its going to be down to the EVO IX and STi. Will drive them both again on the same day and Mrs XWGT and I will make a decision. They are so closely matched its almost impossible to pick. But the EVO IX is probably just in front in my mind. The Cayman would be no question if it wasnt 90k deaer lol.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Nobody likes being stuffed about by time wasters at work.
If,o matter what your job is, you spent time doing something at work, and the person you did it for said "Thanks, but i ont really want it" and threw it in the bin without looking at it, you might question people a bit more next time they ask you.

.

I really dont see how this fits in? As explained, Mrs XWGT was open minded enough to put the GT and F6 into the equation as they seemed to meet our buying criteria, however FPV have stuffed it up from go to whoa.

I really dont see what more I could have done to sell one of FPV's cars for them.......................

[Ringo]

STi will hold its value better than the Evo....

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by XWGT

I really dont see how this fits in? As explained, Mrs XWGT was open minded enough to put the GT and F6 into the equation as they seemed to meet our buying criteria, however FPV have stuffed it up from go to whoa.

I really dont see what more I could have done to sell one of FPV's cars for them.......................

Actually XWGT, when I wrote my input< iwas thinking of putting a comment how I wanst referring to you, as you seemed fair dinkum and had been stuffed about.
I was more on about other posters who it seemed just wanted a drive of a new car.
I guess i was just trying to give "the other side of the story"

anyway im just jealous im not in position to have to choose tween GT/Evo/Wrx/porsche! I feel your pain... :nutsycuck

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

are you serious . i dont like a salesman and wont buy a car off one if he tells me i cant drive it because these cars sell themselves . i think if you fall foir that line your a ИИИИwit.

Well actually that was my point..............if you dont like the salesman you are dealing with go to another dealer. There a 4 dealers for FORD whitin 1/2 hour drive and if I wanted....(and have) a test drive I would deal with the ones that is accomodating and the dealer looses out if they are not up to scratch! I wouldnt buy a car without driving it first and never have. So if I was in the market for a GT and didnt like a particular sales men I would settle for some other piece of crap for the next 3 years???? :nutsycuck



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[tex]

Originally Posted by YELLAUTE

Over the last three years I have written to two Dealer principals and I have contacted Ford customer care including followed up with letters on four occasions with no satisfactory outcome. I did have one call back from customer care after three weeks wait to say they had spoken to the dealer and gave me a new contact to call – I did, he was not in, left a message and he never phoned back.
On another occasion customer care said its out of their hands because the dealer promised he would fix the leather on my $72k LTD that was loosing the colour after 2500klms and three months old and the factory does not warrant ware and tear on upholstery. It never got done, the dealer said because the factory had the new cover on back order for 28 months. after three yars we had it recoloured by a trimmer.
I give up, its not worth the hassle, I/we (that’s my whole family – 6 fords) are now talking about alternative makes. I don’t think Ford gives a dam.

The bloody dealership owners should hang their collective heads in shame.

This story is perhaps the best (worst ??) example of a true blooded Ford owner becoming so disheartened, through terrible service and support that he will probably never own another Ford. And this is far from an isolated incident.

Maybe Happy Jac will read all these anecdotes, and put on his hardest, most painful size 12 steel tow boot and do what needs to be done. Kick some ***.

[FPV329]

I posted this before somewhere but once again;

I ordered a BA Mk III GT-P on the strength of the forums " knowledge" of the upcoming model, which turned out to be the BF. I still have the order in my wallet, BA MkIII GT-P 6 speed auto Mercury Silver leather etc.

My salesman wanted to sell it to me, I wanted to buy it and slapped down $5000 hard earned deposit but FPV did'nt want me to have it! They made the dealer give back my deposit and said I cannot order a vehicle that does'nt exist!

O.K. I thinks ( not real happy but Jack ), I'll wait for the model announcement and order again.

So it's announced, I go to order again and this time I can't order it because they did'nt have pricing yet!

ИИИИ ME!

Sorry people, you only ever get 2 chances from me. So that was that, FPV can shuv their GT-P sideways up their exhaust pipe!

Instead of a nice shiny new GT-P in my driveway in January I got phone call after phone call trying to flog me the car I tried twice to order! Honestly?

It was too late by then I had cracked the sh*ts!

So I've been modding the trade in instead! Geez I love her.

edit; I even ordered FPV 329 number plates for the GT-P and intended to have the build number the same as the plates. Fat chance as it turned out.

[sprjenkins]

Yeah had some of the same experiences at Ethridge Ford in Ringwood. I asked the salesman what the power output was on the Typhoon I was looking at (knowing full well what it was, just wanted to see if he knew) and he had to open the bonnet and read it off the engine. I mean really. If I hapened to own a car dealership and was interviewing a potential salesman there is no possible way the person would get the job if they didn't even know the most basic of info about every model let alone the hero cars

[Super Snake]

I thought it was just me, or maybe the track suit pants I was wearing. But I wanted to also buy a GT, to go along side the XAGT coupe in the garage.
Could not get a chance to test drive, and the last yard I went to asked if I did have money to buy from them!

Anyway.... went next door to a Holden yard and was looking at the Monaro. Got talking with the Salesman who let me take it for a test drive, by myself. After a 2 hour drive, he got a sale.

Just love the 2 door V8 !

And XWGT, if it is a test drive that you need to have to make your decision, then don't let them dictate to you, the customer, what you want.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by XR8 queen

IMHO, thats AWESOME follow up from a salesman cos like i said...he has his cash but he still goes that extra mile for his customers.

and when you eventually decide to upgrade again, i bet he will be the first person you call

[Mutley]

Originally Posted by YELLAUTE

My wife works in the library of a local school, seven women and by coincidence 5 of them have purchased new ( some second hand) cars in the last two months and without exception all have stories of woe with dealing with the new and second hand car dealers they chose to deal with.
Because of my wife’s influence two of them purchased Fords (one new Fiesta and one a two year old BA) both from different Ford dealers. The Ford stories are unfortunately the worse and sad to say we now will never ‘recommend’ or try to ‘influence anyone’s decision’ on what make of vehicle to buy or from whom.
As I said to the upset ladies who listened to my wife, all of the purchases were not good experiences no matter which make of car or which dealer they went to.

What is the matter with dealer’s to-day? How short sighted! I remember my old man going back to the same Ford dealer in Sydney’s northern beaches seven times (maybe eight) (mostly to the same salesman) for his cars for most of his motoring life. He was on first name basis with the dealer principal, the service people and I remember a bloke form the dealership coming up to him in the street when we were all visiting at Cairns once and said g,day Bill hows the ford treating you? It happened that we had driven it up from Sydney to Cairns and dad was not happy with the fuel economy on the latter part of the trip. This bloke went out of his way (also on holiday) to arrange for the local ford dealership to put it through their workshop and check it out for dad. ( we were given a loan car – a new car - and dads car was four years old then, which was a clever move because dad bought another new ford when we got back)
I think the dealers (especially Ford IMO) have lost the plot.

It most likely gets back to the margin the dealer makes in selling the car. If your making say $3,000 margin on a sale you'll try pretty hard to ensure repeat business.

If on the other hand you're only making $500 then as the dealer and salesman, you're probably not too interested in unreasonable aftersales service demands and 'chasing' a new sale just hasn't got the same appeal.

[Van D]

It's a shame really isn't it. Dad was a Holden boy until his second car (around 20 years old) and from then on, both mum and dad have driven fords. I'm 19 and have owned 4 Fords already. Thing is, when we were finally in a financial position to buy the first NEW car (all the others had been used, this being a BA) it was just shocking. Dealers treated you like crap (I went in once or twice with them), talked rubbish and didn't return calls etc. I also have to agree with whoever mentioned the sales people yacking on about how bad the competition is, especially without knowing anything about them.
Dad was then seriously contemplating getting an SS commo for the new car, he went into the dealer and was treated the same!

Thing is, the latest new car is actually a nissan navara (was almost a mitsu) for dads business, as the utes don't cut it anymore, and they treated you like royalty (I went along for the test drives).

[FPV70]

Myself and Mrs FPV70 went and looked at the BA Falcon SR that was at the Local Ford dealer in Beaudesert.
The advertised price was $34,990 Drive away.
They had a few in the yard and we were ooking at them when the sales rep came up and asked if he could help us.
I asked a few questions so on and so forth as you do and he answered them.
All seemed quite normal untill he asked us to come inside so we could work out a change-over of our cars.
Now, we have a EL Futura Classic and this was meant to be the trade-in. When we asked the guy for a test drive of the BA SR he said it was just like the regular BA but a little bit more sporty.
I told him that we hadn't driven a BA and we would like to drive one and we got told that he didn't have any in the yeard for us to drive and proceeded to talk about the change-over figures.
So to entertain this fella, we went along with it to see what we might get.
After alot of bullshit and deliberation on working out our trade, this BA Falcon SR for $34,990 Drive away was actually going to cost us $39,990.
I can not remember how he got to this rediculos price cause once he told us, we simply got up and walked out.
Another Ford dealer in the Browns Plains area had a few of the Program BA's I wanted to look at.
These were 2 BA MkII XT's and a MkII Futura and a MkI Fairmont.
He seemed keen to show me the cars and have a look at them inside and out but as for a test drive, I wasn't allowed.
Now, Prior to this, I went to a Nissan Dealer at Springwood to look at a Nissan Patrol GU. They were more than happy for me to take this $25000 4x4 for a drive for as long as I liked (wife and I laughed and said we should take it back after a few weeks) provided I gave them my licence.
So anyway, This Browns Plains Ford dealer has a Holden Dealer next door. So I go to the holden guy's and asked what Commodores they have and they showed me a few VY's i think they were and one was a Calais. I had said to him that I was interested in a Ford but would have a look at Holden as I didn't like the Sales Reps attitude and that I also hadn't had a drive of the BA/BF modles.
he happily took me for a test drive in a Falcon (not a very good one though I might add) and then promptly took me for a drive in a $25000 Calais.
while I ended up buying a Nissan Patrol, I was more pleased with the Nissan and holden dealers than what I was with the Ford guy's.
Had they done the right thing and let me tell them what i wanted and not them dictate their terms to me, then perhaps I would have bought one.
The wife STILL has her EL Futura classic, I STILL have my old car but have added the Nissan to the fleet.
Shame on the Ford dealers for being so distrusting cause you never know, we might not buy then and there, but who is to say we do not come back a few months later and buy the car of our dreams when it's more feasable.

[ck11]

Not really justifying the sales service, but from what i gather most sales rep's at dealerships work long hours without the adequate remuneration. So naturally you have high turnover of staff and poor product knowledge.

The other thing i notice is that, not everyone rewards good customer service. Lot of people seem to enjoy the great customer service a rep provides but then will buy elsewhere because it is a little cheaper. Not saying that good customer service should automatically be rewarded with a sale, but when people only buy based mainly on price then the attitude of sales staff changes. Have witnessed a lot of sales reps waste a lot of time for little money only to see people buy elsewhere to save a few hundred.

This is inter-related with the work culture setup by dealers and manufacturers. If the management treated and remunerated their workers well then it would have a flow on effect with clients.

Holden, ford etc see sales people as a tool to move a car to a very keen buyer, rather than someone who provides customer service. As long as you have people who buy a car on price or brand loyalty at any cost, then the service wont change. Yeah a few people might get brilliant service, but consistant service is provided by the prestige dealers and makes.

Have experienced customer service at mazda, mistubishi etc and also rick damilien honda. Its a world apart.