The Death of QANTAS - Page 3

Cúl-Báire · 29-10-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I used to be in the ETU and saw it from the inside. The ETU held the people of QLD to ransom in the SEQEB strikes of 1984/5 therefore giving JBP the mandate to smash them completely.

TWU obviously did not learn from that lesson.

For those who don't get it or look with only one eye the lesson is:

DO NOT ANNOY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. They/we do not care about anything that does not affect us directly and will turn on whomever is causing us grief regardless of right or wrong.

In this case the perception is:
1) There is a dispute and the unions repeatedly stopped work causing grief.
2) The unions threatened to destroy QANTAS.
3) QANTAS stops flying because of the union so the general public now have huge amounts of grief which they believe is because of the union.
4) The Fed Gov will have to act to sort this and as the general public are against the union the Fed Gov will snot them.

My bet is the TWU like the ETU will now be singing soprano......

Top Post!!!...

Big Bird 17 · 29-10-2011, 07:56 PM

Now i can only use a coalmine analogy,it is a fact that the safest mines are those with a strong union workforce so is it a coincidence that qantas are having all these reliability problems since they have sent their maintenance overseas to a cheaper non union workforce.I hate to say it but how long before one of their flights does'nt make it back after it has turned around to return to an airport.Seriously this is a union breaking move by qantas.All power to the TWU.

flappist · 29-10-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

No you don't need to be green, fixed now.

Ah, so you did. Looks like the menus are fixed, good one Russ.

P.S. If anyone is wondering why their posts are edited, I am just fixing all the other QUONTEASSUSs.......

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird 17

Now i can only use a coalmine analogy,it is a fact that the safest mines are those with a strong union workforce so is it a coincidence that qantas are having all these reliability problems since they have sent their maintenance overseas to a cheaper non union workforce.I hate to say it but how long before one of their flights does'nt make it back after it has turned around to return to an airport.Seriously this is a union breaking move by qantas.All power to the TWU.

I seriously doubt the TWU's agenda here is safety......

Big Bird 17 · 29-10-2011, 08:04 PM

Hmmm......how does Qantas and Jetstar get their fuel to the airport? Would that be TWU tanker drivers.

Badcooky · 29-10-2011, 08:05 PM

The union has nothing to do with Qantas shutting down ,it's the managements decision to do so not the baggage handlers.
Let's get that straight for a start.
They want you to think it's because of the union action and only idiots will believe it to be so through their blind hatred of the unions
Yes a handlers are at fault here,not Joyce and Co,pigs rzz.

Big Bird 17 · 29-10-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

I seriously doubt the TWU's agenda here is safety......

What do you think their agenda is then?

Nikked · 29-10-2011, 08:07 PM

When CEO's give themselves payrises, whilst ignoring workers, i have no pity...

But, the hand that feeds...

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird 17

What do you think their agenda is then?

POWER.
Power is $$$$
If Qantas reduce their workforce here the TWU will lose numbers. If you lose membership you lose fees, fees are income which means your income is reduced and if your income is reduced you have less money to spend on yourselves...

Effectively the TWU are trying to protect their income stream.

Yellow_Festiva · 29-10-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

I'm glad I'm not flying anywhere at the moment, but my shares in Virgin will be doing well next week.

Hope you didn't buy then at $2.25 a share like I did when they floated!

Seen them as low as 20c at one stage... they are at 36c now.

**Polyal** · 29-10-2011, 08:15 PM

Just checked my flights, all good its virgin on Wednesday..phew...but jetstar in two weeks time.

QANTAS I am in two minds about, the only time I have flown with them is when a business pays, even internationally there is usually someone better and generally most people I know are the same.

So with that in mind there are going to be alot of annoyed business people monday if its not sorted.

Id be very annoyed if it stuff my flights up, cant believe its actually come to this. In conjunction with that speeding fine thread its seems our systems for negotiation are just crazy.

gtxb67 · 29-10-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

POWER.
Power is $$$$
If Qantas reduce their workforce here the TWU will lose numbers. If you lose membership you lose fees, fees are income which means your income is reduced and if your income is reduced you have less money to spend on yourselves...

very true

the ceo's, the union's and the union members are all the same. they only care about themselves and how many dollars they can make for as little effort as possible

Big Bird 17 · 29-10-2011, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

POWER.
Power is $$$$
If Qantas reduce their workforce here the TWU will lose numbers. If you lose membership you lose fees, fees are income which means your income is reduced and if your income is reduced you have less money to spend on yourselves...

Come on thats ridiculous,do you have any idea how many members the TWU has.If you think this will break them then you are dreaming.So who is worried about the safety then because its obvious that qantas does'nt given their recent record.

**DJR-351** · 29-10-2011, 08:20 PM

It's not just the TWU here, you also have the Australian and International Pilots Association and the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers' Association.

Also don't be surprised if more support comes from other unions whose members use Qantas, meaning the companies they work for contract Qantas to move their workers nationally and internationally....

pulpist · 29-10-2011, 08:23 PM

The lockout is designed to back the government into a corner and force them to intervene to settle the dispute.

atec77 · 29-10-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Continuing to threaten action causing the grounding of flights, and then
canceling actions so members can still get paid while QANTAS could not
reinstate planes is driving customers away in droves.

The union is killing QANTAS.

The whole of the Australian traveling public is now very anti union,
these stupid people threatened to slow cook QANTAS, you can't do that...

The ceo and board are killing the company , the ceo should be sacked along with mopst of the board , grant the workers the cpi as most of us get and negotiate a fair deal , friend of mine is a 2nd seat pilot and he retired a month ago rather than accept the crap management were forcing on the minions
The union has not been entirely useful but they did not cause all the trouble
Reinstating job security is a long step to resolution and until that happens this will do nothing but garner a huge fail

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird 17

Come on thats ridiculous,do you have any idea how many members the TWU has.If you think this will break them then you are dreaming.So who is worried about the safety then because its obvious that qantas does'nt given their recent record.

Really?? Trust me, this is all about power and money.. on both sides. The TWU is a business just like Qantas. It either makes or loses money just like Qantas.. Dont be nieve.

**Full Noise** · 29-10-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird 17

Hmmm......how does Qantas and Jetstar get their fuel to the airport? Would that be TWU tanker drivers.

**** me, I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

It’s not 1985 anymore, mate.
Besides the fact that it’s usually pumped directly to most major airports, the tanker drivers wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. Ever heard of an EBA?

Big Bird 17 · 29-10-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Really?? Trust me, this is all about power and money.. on both sides. The TWU is a business just like Qantas. It either makes or loses money just like Qantas.. Dont be nieve.

I'm not nieve,i just would'nt believe everything that Qantas comes out with.

atec77 · 29-10-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpist

The lockout is designed to back the government into a corner and force them to intervene to settle the dispute.

This , I see the lockout as illegal , certainly questionably moraly and wont end well , it mightr well inflame the whole transport situation and drop the Quantis baord into unemployment as it should for being very stupid

old_mate · 29-10-2011, 08:37 PM

Fairwork Australia hearing tonight at 10pm (instigated by Fed. Government)

All industrial action will be forced to cease, I would say all operations back to normal by Monday.

As a former Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, who has seen my old man cop Voluntary Redundancy from Qantaslink in recent months (the Sunsate Airlines here in QLD engineers disputed their EBA for three years before the airline sacked 70% of them) I am so glad I left the industry when I finished my apprenticeship - and this when Qantas were making a billion dollars profit a year.

Say what you want about Unions and Governments and Airlines and offshoring, however to this day I have a problem with the fact I now earn $14 an hour MORE than the base rate of your typical LAME who has the right to certify a single aircraft type is safe to fly. When I sign off rectification work pertaining to my industry, I don't have the lives of the crew or the pax travelling on that aircraft in mind.

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird 17

I'm not nieve,i just would'nt believe everything that Qantas comes out with.

Agree, equally i wouldnt believe everything the unions come out with either... They have an agenda as well....

blue sleeper · 29-10-2011, 08:40 PM

I think QANTAS has shot themselves in the foot here. People won't remember the union strikes over the years but they will remember QANTAS basically ripping up their tickets at home and around the world. Not the best strategy.....

**DJR-351** · 29-10-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Agree, equally i wouldnt believe everything the unions come out with either... They have an agenda as well....

And what is that agenda....??

**Full Noise** · 29-10-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Power is $$$$
If Qantas reduce their workforce here the TWU will lose numbers. If you lose membership you lose fees, fees are income which means your income is reduced and if your income is reduced you have less money to spend on yourselves...

Effectively the TWU are trying to protect their income stream.

Although I’m no longer a member of the TWU, the amount of people working in the airline industry that the union represents is SFA. This won’t break the union.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

It's not just the TWU here, you also have the Australian and International Pilots Association and the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers' Association.

Also don't be surprised if more support comes from other unions whose members use Qantas, meaning the companies they work for contract Qantas to move their workers nationally and internationally....

Can you please refrain from making these sorts of sensible comments. You’ll have the Qantas shareholders here complaining to Russ.

AMGC63 · 29-10-2011, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Although I’m no longer a member of the TWU, the amount of people working in the airline industry that the union represents is SFA. This won’t break the union.

I Agree, i know it wont break them, but every bit counts, they're a corporation just like every business, just look at their website.... They need to remain profitable.
I know they do lots of good for workers too, but ill believe they're totally for the worker when they no longer charge union fees...

Yellow_Festiva · 29-10-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWF6 310

Guess now, if not resolved straight away, they will fold the company, sell off to the Multi National waiting in the wings, then re-employ at lower rates and have worse conditions.

I was also thinking the same. Wasn't there an offer to buy out QANTAS for $11Bil a year or 2 ago? It got knocked back, but I wonder what it's worth now after this turmoil and bad press?

F6E · 29-10-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

People who complain that Joyce gave himself a pay rise have no idea about the corporate world. Qantas have to pay this to keep him, it's what he's worth. If another company offered you higher pay to defect to them would you stay? Doubt it.

While unions have their place and do some good, they are thugs in this instance. Unions helped kill off Ansett in the end, no lessons have been learnt...

Exactly !! AJ's stocks just went up by having the balls to say "enough is enough"

His decision was unanimously supported by the board (representing shareholders).
Good on him.

Close it down, wrap it up and reopen overseas where people are more appreciative of the oportunity of employment.

A job is not a birth rite.

**Full Noise** · 29-10-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6E

Close it down, wrap it up and reopen overseas where people are more appreciative of the oportunity of employment.

A job is not a birth rite.

Yeah, right. Pay them peanuts and when one falls out of the sky, then what?

Please Sir, can I have some more?

old_mate · 29-10-2011, 08:56 PM

it has cost Qantas more to fight the unions, than what it would have cost to agree to the 3-5% wage claim and job security clauses that the unions wanted for the next three years.

It's costing Qantas $15 mill a week at the moment with the industrial actions, but to ground the fleet will cost $20 mill a day.

The 'grounding of aircraft due to backlog of maintenance' is rubbish, they are mostly old 767's due for heavy maintenance and would have been replaced by the 787 long ago if that program was on schedule. It's all a PR spin.

Yellow Festiva, Qantas share price was around $5 when the takeover talk was happening. Now trading at $1.54, and I bet that'll dive again come monday.