Opinions on daylight saving?

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by TS50

hmmm
Sometimes I do wonder if people realise that there is the excact same amount of daylight in a day, weather or not we have daylight savings

Apparently not..

I'm with you Louise, it's awesome getting home from work and being able to do stuff in the sunlight.

During winter I go to work in the dark and come home in the dark, so during summer I'm as happy as can be.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I am really confused by those numbers and YES I understand a 24 hour clock.

For instance Mt. Isa that I have highlighted, do those numbers mean that "legally" sunset is at 7.58pm and sunrise is at 9.03 am? Or am I reading those number wrong.

I really struggle with it being "legally" sunrise at 9.03 am today in Mt Isa - sorry.

If it is cloudy or dusty or you are in the shadow of a mountain it can get dark sooner or light later.

The legal first/last light is when it would be on a clear day so is used for reference purposes.

The times are in UTC, AEST is UTC + 10.

This morning first light in Mt Isa was at 19:58 UTC which if you add 10 hours to convert it to AEST is 5:58 AM

[T3man]

I'm a Queenslander ... and you ask me what I think of Daylight Foolstime? There's a hint for you.

I've lived in NSW for the past 40 years so I have experienced the stupidity and therefore have some cred to my opinion.

My opinion is simple really - time is time. Time is measured by the period that it takes the Earth to revolve around the Sun and about it's own axis. And in increments thereof.

Now it is a very simple fact that (by definition) midday is that point in time when the sun is directly overhead of any (longitudinal meridian) location on the globe.

If the east coast of Australia lies approximately on the 150 degree, which it indisputably does, then that location "sees" the sun directly above (midday) 10 hours ahead of Greenwich (for years the recognized location for standard time setting) which is at Zero degrees longitude. You see, mathematically the sun "traverses" 15 degrees of longitude in each hour. Don't believe me? Work it out yourself dummy!

Bottom line is that time remains constant according to the math - not someones idea of when they might like to see the sun rise or set or what time they prefer to start or stop work. We can pretend the time is anything we like. Only fooling ourselves really. The Sun and Earth don't care!

People will have all sorts of reasons for wanting it or not wanting it - to save the division I say LEAVE TIME ALONE! Learn to live with the time it is where you happen to be - if you don't like it then MOVE. But don't pretend the time is something that it isn't.

*rant off*

[351@GT]

chuck my 2 cents in randomly.
Cant speak for qld, but for wa, theres no need, its still light late enough.

Although when i was in sydney in early dec a few years ago, WITH dls it still got darker earlier than what was normal in perth without it.
(was light at 9:30?? or something when we went through SA.)

For the trial period in wa, all it meant was i got up in the dark all year round, kinda look forward to getting up with the light, all good for the 9-5er's.


and +1 to T3's comment
"People will have all sorts of reasons for wanting it or not wanting it - to save the division I say LEAVE TIME ALONE! Learn to live with the time it is where you happen to be - if you don't like it then MOVE. But don't pretend the time is something that it isn't."

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by T3man

I'm a Queenslander ... and you ask me what I think of Daylight Foolstime? There's a hint for you.

I've lived in NSW for the past 40 years so I have experienced the stupidity and therefore have some cred to my opinion.

My opinion is simple really - time is time. Time is measured by the period that it takes the Earth to revolve around the Sun and about it's own axis. And in increments thereof.

Now it is a very simple fact that (by definition) midday is that point in time when the sun is directly overhead of any (longitudinal meridian) location on the globe.

If the east coast of Australia lies approximately on the 150 degree, which it indisputably does, then that location "sees" the sun directly above (midday) 10 hours ahead of Greenwich (for years the recognized location for standard time setting) which is at Zero degrees longitude. You see, mathematically the sun "traverses" 15 degrees of longitude in each hour. Don't believe me? Work it out yourself dummy!

Bottom line is that time remains constant according to the math - not someones idea of when they might like to see the sun rise or set or what time they prefer to start or stop work. We can pretend the time is anything we like. Only fooling ourselves really. The Sun and Earth don't care!

People will have all sorts of reasons for wanting it or not wanting it - to save the division I say LEAVE TIME ALONE! Learn to live with the time it is where you happen to be - if you don't like it then MOVE. But don't pretend the time is something that it isn't.

*rant off*

Cooool , man, time is as it is.....time remains constant, granted , but it actually remains constant, relative to the rest of the world in a real world paradigm

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by T3man

I'm a Queenslander ... and you ask me what I think of Daylight Foolstime? There's a hint for you.

I've lived in NSW for the past 40 years so I have experienced the stupidity and therefore have some cred to my opinion.

My opinion is simple really - time is time. Time is measured by the period that it takes the Earth to revolve around the Sun and about it's own axis. And in increments thereof.

Now it is a very simple fact that (by definition) midday is that point in time when the sun is directly overhead of any (longitudinal meridian) location on the globe.

If the east coast of Australia lies approximately on the 150 degree, which it indisputably does, then that location "sees" the sun directly above (midday) 10 hours ahead of Greenwich (for years the recognized location for standard time setting) which is at Zero degrees longitude. You see, mathematically the sun "traverses" 15 degrees of longitude in each hour. Don't believe me? Work it out yourself dummy!

Bottom line is that time remains constant according to the math - not someones idea of when they might like to see the sun rise or set or what time they prefer to start or stop work. We can pretend the time is anything we like. Only fooling ourselves really. The Sun and Earth don't care!

People will have all sorts of reasons for wanting it or not wanting it - to save the division I say LEAVE TIME ALONE! Learn to live with the time it is where you happen to be - if you don't like it then MOVE. But don't pretend the time is something that it isn't.

*rant off*

Thats all well and good but our lives revolve around 9-5...so if its dark by 530/6 then when you get home you cant do anything outside.

Now in winter this is not an issue, its cold so who wants to be outside anyway, but come summer we want to experience all the warmth and light we can.

We are so set in our 9-5 that while its nice to say "work around it", that would involve everyone doing it, not just you or I.

Its not hurting anyone so I dont see what the big fuss is, id be really annoyed if VIC changed back for whatever reason.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

I guess if you're flying a couple of feet above the rest of us ,yes it does help me understand. I only posted times from the BOM, that I guess the rest of us less fortunate ground dwellers would reference.
But again I ask ,if the original post was in regards to daylight savings in Queensland, why do you reference aviation statistics for YMBH, YMML, YSSY,
There was a map produced earlier that showed most coutries in the tropics were against DLS, but it also showed to me that most of those countries that proposed DLS were developed.

I added Hobart Sydney and Melbourne as references for all not just for you.

Did you actually read the article of daylight saving?

This geography you learned in your 16 years did it teach you what "developed" means?


I would not call Japan, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Saudi Arabia etc. undeveloped countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayligh..._DST_in_Europe

Look at this one, it also may help you.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by flappist

You can have your twilights in summer while we swelter in the stinking heat and monsoons and we can have cool evenings in winter while you freeze your bums off in the dark.........

Suits me fine.

I love DLS but then I grew up with it and have a lifetime of great memories playing cricket in the street until 9pm or riding my trailbike in the scrub til dark.

SEQ should have it - its relevance is lost further north but who would really care about splitting time-zones? It's not like we don't already do it.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats all well and good but our lives revolve around 9-5...so if its dark by 530/6 then when you get home you cant do anything outside.

Now in winter this is not an issue, its cold so who wants to be outside anyway, but come summer we want to experience all the warmth and light we can.

We are so set in our 9-5 that while its nice to say "work around it", that would involve everyone doing it, not just you or I.

Its not hurting anyone so I dont see what the big fuss is, id be really annoyed if VIC changed back for whatever reason.

Great Logic Polyal - well done

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

I added Hobart Sydney and Melbourne as references for all not just for you.

Did you actually read the article of daylight saving?

This geography you learned in your 16 years did it teach you what "developed" means?


I would not call Japan, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Saudi Arabia etc. undeveloped countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayligh..._DST_in_Europe

Look at this one, it also may help you.

This geography you learned in your 16 years did it teach you what "developed" means?

Yes, it did... I didn't say the countries you have referenced (Japan, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Saudi Arabia etc. )weren't developed, I said it seemed to me that most of the countries shown on the map that you referenced were also developed countries.
Still can't see what Japan, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Saudi Arabia Hobart, Sydney and Melbourne have to do with a question about daylight savings in Queensland

[flappist]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

This geography you learned in your 16 years did it teach you what "developed" means?

Yes, it did... I didn't say the countries you have referenced (Japan, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Saudi Arabia etc. )weren't developed, I said it seemed to me that most of the countries shown on the map that you referenced were also developed countries.
Still can't see what Japan, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Saudi Arabia Hobart, Sydney and Melbourne have to do with a question about daylight savings in Queensland

Hmmm.....

You asked many questions and do not understand answers given to you.

I have shown you maps of where daylight savings has been implemented.
Rather than see that the tropics are the common factor you choose to go with "developed" as the reason as if only "advanced" people support your position.

You stated there is little difference between between last light is various places.
I gave you the EXACT times from the correct reference point which was available to you as well, I just used google, with cross reference to southern cities to demonstrate the differences as you move away from the equator.

If you cannot understand from all of the information above how daylight saving may not suit areas such as QLD then it was pointless you asking the original question.

[fmc351]

If southerners think they need it, then have it, why do we need to want it too? Do we need to hold your hand? Pretty much everthing you list about the wonders of DLS, we have naturally.

All this nonsense about Qlders fearing it flows along the same line Qlders cant spell Beer, yeah well XXXX was originally a product of Victoria, Castlemaine, and it was called XXX, at least Qlders know how many letters there are.

Oh and for those suggesting a split zone in Qld, where do you draw that line, I live on the Sunny Coast, I dont need DLS.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats all well and good but our lives revolve around 9-5...so if its dark by 530/6 then when you get home you cant do anything outside.

Now in winter this is not an issue, its cold so who wants to be outside anyway, but come summer we want to experience all the warmth and light we can.

We are so set in our 9-5 that while its nice to say "work around it", that would involve everyone doing it, not just you or I.

Its not hurting anyone so I dont see what the big fuss is, id be really annoyed if VIC changed back for whatever reason.

So it gets dark around 530-6pm without DLS but with DLS it gets dark around 830-9pm...how does that work? DLS only adjusts the clock by one hour. Last time I was in Victoria around end of November it was getting dark around 830pm.

I'd like you to explain what I'm missing here.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

Hmmm.....

You asked many questions and do not understand answers given to you.

I have shown you maps of where daylight savings has been implemented.
Rather than see that the tropics are the common factor you choose to go with "developed" as the reason as if only "advanced" people support your position.

You stated there is little difference between between last light is various places.
I gave you the EXACT times from the correct reference point which was available to you as well, I just used google, with cross reference to southern cities to demonstrate the differences as you move away from the equator.

If you cannot understand from all of the information above how daylight saving may not suit areas such as QLD then it was pointless you asking the original question.

Flappist... I am not asking for answers, I asked for opinions!
So you are somewhat correct in that " I don't understand the answers given to me".
You gave me "exact times from the correct reference points", as I did ,with no reference to southern cities, as I wanted to know thew opinions of people in regards daylight savings in Queensland! I also stated that there was little difference between the last light times ,in Queensland, not "various places"
I understand how daylight saving may not suit areas such as Queensland...I merely asked for opinions.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

Hmmm..
Rather than see that the tropics are the common factor you choose to go with "developed" as the reason as if only "advanced" people support your position.
.

I also think that's a bit rough, I countered your argument re "tropics" with "developed", and you think I am looking for "advanced" people to support my position??

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

I also think that's a bit rough, I countered your argument re "tropics" with "developed", and you think I am looking for "advanced" people to support my position??

Yeah, but developed has no bearing. The point about tropics is relevant to the effects of daylight from a fixed point shining on something the shape of a ball. The tropics run closer to the outer point, while the southern states sit more in the lower areas. Add in the effects of the atmosphere on the angle of light hitting it and that is the point I think Flappist is making. Developed doesnt counter anything, its just a random coincidence.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

So it gets dark around 530-6pm without DLS but with DLS it gets dark around 830-9pm...how does that work? DLS only adjusts the clock by one hour. Last time I was in Victoria around end of November it was getting dark around 830pm.

I'd like you to explain what I'm missing here.

Its really really simple and everyone is over complicating the issue. Its all so we can enjoy some more free time later in the day.

Of course the day doesn't magically turn into 26 odd hours, just our perception of it does. It all revolves around the simple fact that we get more work done and enjoy our selves more outdoors when there is light, not dark.

I dont think I can explain it simpler than that...there are no time machines...no one cares about the angle of the light/sun...its about having a BBQ at 8PM outside and enjoying it

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Yeah, but developed has no bearing. The point about tropics is relevant to the effects of daylight from a fixed point shining on something the shape of a ball. The tropics run closer to the outer point, while the southern states sit more in the lower areas. Add in the effects of the atmosphere on the angle of light hitting it and that is the point I think Flappist is making. Developed doesnt counter anything, its just a random coincidence.

Absolutely, that's why my original post asked for opinion on daylight saving, I wasn't after a lesson in geo-physics, or a time-space continum debate.

[fmc351]

Its relevant to an educated opinion, as opposed to an emotional opinion like curtains fading.

[buggerlugs]

In summer here, I get up and walk the dogs at 5.00am every morning ( without a doubt the best part of the day) , come back, have a swim, breaky, play on the net, then off to work. It's still daylight till 7.00pm, plenty of time for a BBQ, Beer and swim. If it aint broke.................

[BOSHOG]

there is no more daylight, its only the clock that changes and my work hours change to suit the sunlight all year round, so for me its pointless

[flappist]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Absolutely, that's why my original post asked for opinion on daylight saving, I wasn't after a lesson in geo-physics, or a time-space continum debate.

My apologies.

I should have remembered that historically facts, logic and reasoning have had very little to do with anything you write.

My opinion is that making unfounded prejudiced statements such as accusing those who do not wish to employ daylight savings of "fearing" it is arrogant, ignorant, rude and childish.

[Polyal]

OK well this topic is very different obviously for people in QLD, its strange how "passionate" we are all about it but I guess when your used to something its hard to see the other side.

There would be blood spilt if it was taken away in Victoria. The only thing I dont like about it now is being a newish father my son still thinks its playtime as the sun is out.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its really really simple and everyone is over complicating the issue. Its all so we can enjoy some more free time later in the day.

Of course the day doesn't magically turn into 26 odd hours, just our perception of it does. It all revolves around the simple fact that we get more work done and enjoy our selves more outdoors when there is light, not dark.

I dont think I can explain it simpler than that...there are no time machines...no one cares about the angle of the light/sun...its about having a BBQ at 8PM outside and enjoying it

I understand, it's just that the difference of one hour is blown out of proportion. You hear things like taking the kids/dog/wife for a walk and BBQ's with DLS yet without it its made out like it gets dark at 6pm versus 9pm with DLS.

It's the exaggeration that makes me laugh. Nevermind, we are fortunate enough not to have it here in WA.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

My apologies.

I should have remembered that historically facts, logic and reasoning have had very little to do with anything you write.

My opinion is that making unfounded prejudiced statements such as accusing those who do not wish to employ daylight savings of "fearing" it is arrogant, ignorant, rude and childish.

" I should have remembered that historically facts, logic and reasoning have had very little to do with anything you write."

Please do tell?? (All my posts are available for public viewing)

Anyway, again,I asked for an opinion on daylight savings, not wether or not you thought I was being "arrogant, ignorant, rude and childish"
I stand by my original opinion that there seems to be a lot of "fear" attached to either the implementation of daylight saving, or infact, daylight saving itself (in Qld)

[Trevor 57]

For those of us that are tied into the bosses regime of work hours, the ability to start an hour earlier and to get home an hour earlier (by sunlight time), DLS is a real bonus.

If you get home at 5.30, instead of it getting dark at 7.30 - 8.00 (by the clock) it gets dark at about 8.30 - 9.00. Bloody fantastic I reckon.

[Iggypoppin']

You guys are arguing about something we really have no control over, I'm going for a walk in the sun enjoy!
P.S don't flame me, i'm just a carefree sort of person in weather like this.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by flappist

My apologies.

I should have remembered that historically facts, logic and reasoning have had very little to do with anything you write.

My opinion is that making unfounded prejudiced statements such as accusing those who do not wish to employ daylight savings of "fearing" it is arrogant, ignorant, rude and childish.

Just for the context...
"I for one, don't understand Queenslands' ongoing fear of it." (op)

Don't know how this is (historically), facts, logic,and/or reasoning, and I don't know where I'm accusing anyone of anything.
Seems to me there has been, historically, a reticence to embrace DLS in Qld, and other than the geography lesson that you have quite graciously provided, I haven't ever heard of too many logical or reasoned arguments against it. So, the opinion I am left to run with, is that there is some sort of fear or unfounded opposition to it. Again, just my opinion.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Just for the context...
"I for one, don't understand Queenslands' ongoing fear of it." (op)

Don't know how this is (historically), facts, logic,and/or reasoning, and I don't know where I'm accusing anyone of anything.
Seems to me there has been, historically, a reticence to embrace DLS in Qld, and other than the geography lesson that you have quite graciously provided, I haven't ever heard of too many logical or reasoned arguments against it. So, the opinion I am left to run with, is that there is some sort of fear or unfounded opposition to it. Again, just my opinion.

Just wondering, how many reasons based in logic are needed? I met a mother who swore blind women were pregnant for 20 months, she had 3 kids. Some people are just not very bright, Qld doesnt have a monopoly on that. Any issue will have varying points, ranging from those with merit to guano insane. Just look at arguments over speed limits, in the 60's it was about seatbelts. Your statement implies the lack of acceptance of DLS denotes some fear, and its just wrong. We have no need for it, the southern states do.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

I haven't ever heard of too many logical or reasoned arguments against it. .

What Flappist gave you was a logical and reasoned argument against it. Particularly when you remember QLD is a lot bigger than just Brisbane, for the northern parts of the state there is little point to it.