Dealer to slack to do a deal. - Page 3

troppo · 05-01-2008, 03:00 PM

Well, it appears some of the car salesman are determined to turn this into a salesman bashing thread, if attitudes are anything to go by.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

Im afraid its not the salesmen who are tossers, its people with attitude like yours.

Frankly your attitude stinks, you obviously havent bought a new car in many many years because if you had then you would definately know your way is not the right way.

Being in carsales is a job, we work very long hours for the money we get. This commission everyone keeps speaking about, You make out as though we make hundreds from selling you a car. Often in new carsales the reward is not all that great.

Have you considered another industry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

If you would like to buy a car, make the choice of which car it is... walk into your local dealer, treat the salesman like a human being and not a vending machine. I can assure you that if you do this, you will be treated exactly how you want to be treated.

Yep...as soon as salesmen start treating me like a human being and not a cheque book. The public perception of car salesmen didn't happen by accident, you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

You all winge//complain that dealers play games, well when you start playing games like ''yep we will buy today if the price is right'' but know all along that you have no intention of doing so and simply want to extract the 'best price'. Now think about the *** reaming that salesman will get from his manager when you walk out after you gave him commitment to buying the car. You have just left with their price and that dealership has about 5% chance of ever seeing you again.

Lol, as I said, why start the game?
And why would a slaesman get a reaming for giving a decent price? If we're not coming back to buy at the price you gave, what exactly have you lost? If you give your best price and no other dealers are prepared to do better, we will come back. Pretty simple really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

Even if they have really really looked after you, the next dealership you walk into will always undercut any price, even if its by $50.

Not necessarily, quality of service plays a part in decision making. Consumers are prepared to pay a little extra for good service. Those with a good reputation for service tend to get a lot repeat business and recomendations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

You play the dishonest game with us, we will play the 'no price untill you are ready to buy' game.

Chicken or the egg?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

Sorry to say it but people like you make it hard for normal people to buy cars. You also give customers the name used in the motor trade 'buyers are liars'

Wake upto yourself

Sorry to say it but salesmen like you contribute to the public perception of the industry as a whole, to the detriment of decent dealers.

Right back at ya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Do people really think salesmen care if they go to the next dealer thinking they'll be any better off. I wouldn't as i'm sure the other yard will burn customers who will think the same as you and come to me, it's swings and roundabouts people, get over it.

And if someone came to me for a deal, went to another yard for a better price and returned it to me for warranty, i'd fill your door inners with a few sardines.....mmm smells great on a hot day!

We think you should care. If you're sure we'll get burned at the next, maybe thats an indication of how widespread the dishonesty is in the industry? Which adds to the public perception? You're really not doing anything to help yourselves by posting this.

Champion....remind me never to send anyone your way. And car salesman wonder why they get a bad rap...

Poetic Justice · 05-01-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrEL

Nice idea blackout , lets make friends before we do the deal. Does that mean once I have bought from you and "its another one in the traffic" that you are going to call me the week later for a BBQ and a couple of beers at your house like friends do?

No need to twist it too far, you know what I was meaning when I said that. Let's at least chat, find out a bit about each other and see if we relate which can break the ice and make it a bit more of a fun experience with less pressure.

The pressure will come out where it needs to be, I'll usually only use it just so I can gauge where the situation is heading.

As for driving out of the dealer... that wont be the last you'll hear from me. I'll call you 3 days later, 1 week later, 3 weeks again and 1 month after that to make sure you're happy. If you're local I'll even pick up your car for servicing and leave you with mine for the day.

Purchasing a car, as we like to say here is about the service and the package, not just the price. So let's establish what we can offer you before we talk numbers. I want to make you happy initially, and a happy purchaser that is happy with the service and the product has a reduced concern for the price.

muppet · 05-01-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

Im afraid its not the salesmen who are tossers, its people with attitude like yours.

Frankly your attitude stinks, you obviously havent bought a new car in many many years because if you had then you would definately know your way is not the right way.

Being in carsales is a job, we work very long hours for the money we get. This commission everyone keeps speaking about, You make out as though we make hundreds from selling you a car. Often in new carsales the reward is not all that great.

If you would like to buy a car, make the choice of which car it is... walk into your local dealer, treat the salesman like a human being and not a vending machine. I can assure you that if you do this, you will be treated exactly how you want to be treated.

You all winge//complain that dealers play games, well when you start playing games like ''yep we will buy today if the price is right'' but know all along that you have no intention of doing so and simply want to extract the 'best price'. Now think about the *** reaming that salesman will get from his manager when you walk out after you gave him commitment to buying the car. You have just left with their price and that dealership has about 5% chance of ever seeing you again.

Even if they have really really looked after you, the next dealership you walk into will always undercut any price, even if its by $50.

You play the dishonest game with us, we will play the 'no price untill you are ready to buy' game.

Sorry to say it but people like you make it hard for normal people to buy cars. You also give customers the name used in the motor trade 'buyers are liars'

Wake upto yourself

I think the main thing the guy you quoted was saying was that if salesman are going to play silly bugger games with you then why not play silly buggers back. There is nothing wrong with this , it seems to be the only way to get the best price. I have to say I have never been in a car yard and not had the salesman try some sort of buy it now or loose it forever pitch on me. I find this to be the most off putting thing a salesman can do after you say I don't want to play games what's the best price you can do . They then start to come out with lines like , if you aren't going to buy today you cant have a test drive (love that one, walked out telling the salesman I had a cheque for 16,000 in my pocket and would be buying else where) , or if you like this car why do you want to look anywhere else . The later was used at the first car yard we looked at. I just laughed and said only an idiot buys a car from the first yard he looks at . He said that the price was only for today and the car might not be there tomorrow. I told him that was fine and if it wasn't it wasn't. They rang me back a week later and offered me the car for less than they originally quoted so I bought it.

You're post outlines the problem that a lot of car salesman have , and that's the us and them attitude. You say you play games with us and we will play games with you , not really very productive for either party is it. A better approach would be for the salesman to be free to give a good price strait of the bat and then the buyer has something to go on.
Car sales is a high pressure job , you don't sell you get the chop. That makes it very stressful job to be in. But you cant blame the customers for that you can only blame you're employer. I have to say I never treat car sales people badly and I am always very courteous towards them.

BENT_8 · 05-01-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troppo

We think you should care. If you're sure we'll get burned at the next, maybe thats an indication of how widespread the dishonesty is in the industry? Which adds to the public perception? You're really not doing anything to help yourselves by posting this.

See thats the point, i know other dealers will burn their customers, it's not that all dealers and salesmen are the same, but most customers perception of them is and therefore they feel like they are being scammed before the initial conversation anyway.
Most customers get the idea in their head that if they dont get what they want to hear then they are being ripped, bad luck, take your business elsewhere.
I'm sure there are plenty of other buyers waiting to take the car off their hands
One thing i can assure you, if there is always a better deal down the road then why isn't there one super dealer with the lowest prices and no competition

Poetic Justice · 05-01-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troppo

Lol, as I said, why start the game?
And why would a slaesman get a reaming for giving a decent price? If we're not coming back to buy at the price you gave, what exactly have you lost? If you give your best price and no other dealers are prepared to do better, we will come back. Pretty simple really.

It's just unfortunate that in a lot of cases the customer expects to keep going where you've already been pretty much given a price that is right on break even for the dealership.

Some dealers are so keen to do a deal they'll give you the best price straight up (Dealer price, not RRP) and you'll go shopping for it... Little hard for a dealer to beat it because some people don't understand that we don't get these cars off the manufacturer for free.

If each dealer started off with RRP it might make it easier, but we cannot control that.

Where I work, we will quite happily knock back a deal if it's in the red for us. They way I see it, there's no point in me selling you a car that in effect we are losing money for you to have. I'll be honest in what the best price I can do is if the competition is so close to break even, then it will be up to you to decide whether you want to do business with me.

troppo · 05-01-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

See thats the point, i know other dealers will burn their customers, it's not that all dealers and salesmen are the same, but most customers perception of them is and therefore they feel like they are being scammed before the initial conversation anyway.
Most customers get the idea in their head that if they dont get what they want to hear then they are being ripped, bad luck, take your business elsewhere.
I'm sure there are plenty of other buyers waiting to take the car off their hands
One thing i can assure you, if there is always a better deal down the road then why isn't there one super dealer with the lowest prices and no competition

No doubt there's a lot of customers out there that can be a real PITA, it works both ways. If both parties have an open, honest attitude, deals will be done. While you accept that not all dealers and salesmen are the same, you don't seem prepared to accept the same for customers. I'll always give salesman a fresh slate to start with but I'll also give them enough rope. Let them hang themselves before you decide you don't want to deal with them instead of having the attitude straight up. I can't see why you couldn't do the same.

You mean like Peter Kittle Holden/Toyota/Mitsubishi/Diahatsu/Daewoo/Honda/Nissan in Alice? (probably missed a couple)

benoxr · 05-01-2008, 04:19 PM

Maybe if I try a different tack with car sales. Rather than ask for the best price, I pick out 4 dealers to visit in one day and I simply ask all of them
'I want to buy a black GT this week, how much are you asking?'
Would they say the RRP, or a rediculously high price, or their lowest (best)price or would they say " how much are you willing to pay for it?'

Do salespersons look for the cheapest petrol to buy for their personal vehicles, knowing the owner is making very little profit, or do they go to the dearest station just to be fair to the operator?

Some salespersons are being very defensive here, I'd suggest it's because they know they arent competitive or they are sick of selling cars.

Poetic Justice · 05-01-2008, 04:27 PM

It's pretty simple benoxr... if someone approaches me and the only thing they have to say is "I want to buy this, how much are you asking?" I will tell them the RRP.

This SHOULD be fair.. should it not? It is after all the asking and recommended retail price for the unit.

sfr rob · 05-01-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackout

No need to twist it too far, you know what I was meaning when I said that. Let's at least chat, find out a bit about each other and see if we relate which can break the ice and make it a bit more of a fun experience with less pressure.

The pressure will come out where it needs to be, I'll usually only use it just so I can gauge where the situation is heading.

As for driving out of the dealer... that wont be the last you'll hear from me. I'll call you 3 days later, 1 week later, 3 weeks again and 1 month after that to make sure you're happy. If you're local I'll even pick up your car for servicing and leave you with mine for the day.

Purchasing a car, as we like to say here is about the service and the package, not just the price. So let's establish what we can offer you before we talk numbers. I want to make you happy initially, and a happy purchaser that is happy with the service and the product has a reduced concern for the price.

ewww!
I wouldnt be caught dead in an old dunger of a commy!

:

benoxr · 05-01-2008, 04:36 PM

Blackout, I agree with much of what you have been saying, but if all 4 dealers gave me the same price, RRP, and I bought the car from one, surely the other 3 would be thinking of ways to be more competitive either by offering more with the vehicle or giving a lower price next time they are asked? If they didnt, they risk losing the business unless of course they are happy with just selling a mediocre amount per annum, as in they earn $30,000 a year, thats enough their happy with that.
Natural progression I think would see each dealer giving their best price right from the start wouldn't they?

Dan1990EA · 05-01-2008, 04:43 PM

somehow we all have forgotten this is a SALES job, the dealer is SELLING a product to us, regardless of wether or not the sales person is nice or not, or the deal they give, it is a SALE.

I have worked in sales for years, if someone wants to buy a certain item for a certain amount as a salesman if you cant sell it for the price they want they will not buy from you.

And with todays massive overheads, not alot of places can give you the "best deal" or the deal you want.

When we bought the EA we got offered 2grand for a 1989 magna, but all the cars in the yard were compact little pregnant rice bubbles, so we basically told the salesman well there is not anything here that REALLY interests us at the moment, do you have anything in storage that might be more to our needs.

The guy showed us a few things they had in storage but nothing we really liked so we said sorry and left, i see no point in making them beg when we know there isnt anything there we want.

The next place we went to we saw the EA and liked it, nice clean well maintained for $2000, but the place we went to earlier wouldnt buy the car outright, and this place wouldnt have traded it in because he was the lower end dealer who bought cars like ours to sell (and i mean this magna was on its last leg) so we bought the EA for cash, and left the magna on the street untill the next day when we sold it to a scrap yard for $100.

The point being, if you know what you want and how much you want to pay, ask for it straight up, if the salesman cant match it, why waste your time and his/ hers, just say outright sorry we cant afford that and go elsewhere.

It isnt like poker guys, there is no need to "have a poker face" unless the guy made a mistake and is selling you a kompressor for the price of a tin of tuna, and lets face it that wont happen!!!!!

Poetic Justice · 05-01-2008, 04:47 PM

It comes down to understandnig the customer... A sales person is trained to 'qualify' a customer. That is, to ask a few questions and find out some information about the person (name, location, what the car is for, who will be driving it) before going straight to the price. The idea is that the sales person can figure out whether or not it is worth them giving them a competitive price based on thinking whether or not they are going to buy.

Just remember, our aim is to make money like most businesses, so it's not in our best interest to open with a gutted price otherwise we're not really making good business sense to the dealer principal... as well as the respective manufacturer.

Dealers definitely do have to have something up their sleave, but it may not just mean dropping the RRP... it might be something as simple as picking up your car when its due for service

and Rob.... I sell Toyota's, not my personal cars, haha!

LUXO_8 · 05-01-2008, 04:50 PM

i think the whole point is the sales guy the OP was talking about wouldnt even give a price unless they were going to buy it there and then......... you at least give the people the price, come on

troppo · 05-01-2008, 04:53 PM

Second hand car sales are a little different though. Which I guess begs the question about how salesmen act when they are the buyers. When appraising a car for a trade-in, do you accept the asking price or do beat them down and make an offer of your own?

troppo · 05-01-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackout

Just remember, our aim is to make money like most businesses, so it's not in our best interest to open with a gutted price otherwise we're not really making good business sense to the dealer principal... as well as the respective manufacturer.

You are if your sales manager is on the ball and finds the balance between losses incurred through discounting and gains incurred through extra sales volumes.

Poetic Justice · 05-01-2008, 05:15 PM

That doesn't mean we should have to however

troppo · 05-01-2008, 05:29 PM

I agree. I'm sorry if it seems I'm having a go at you, I'm just trying to point out what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackout

Dealers definitely do have to have something up their sleave, but it may not just mean dropping the RRP... it might be something as simple as picking up your car when its due for service.

Now that's the kind of thing I meant when I said lowest price does not equal best deal.

benoxr · 05-01-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troppo

Second hand car sales are a little different though. Which I guess begs the question about how salesmen act when they are the buyers. When appraising a car for a trade-in, do you accept the asking price or do beat them down and make an offer of your own?

They almost always say " whats the least you will accept for it so that we can do the deal".
And no matter what you say, they say 'nah, couldnt do it for that'.

Nappa · 05-01-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troppo

You are if your sales manager is on the ball and finds the balance between losses incurred through discounting and gains incurred through extra sales volumes.

thats usually how it is at most dealerships, however there are a few out there that will just slaughter the price of every car but offer no real customer service. A prime example

Yesterday i recieved a phone call from a gent who had purchased a car at a very large dealership. He wished to get out of the deal because he found he wasnt happy with the way he had been treated. Pretty much once he had signed the deal they wanted shove him out the door as it was after 6pm.
They took his deposit and made him sign a contract, then moved his car into the street over the road, and made him let himself out, they didnt even walk him to the door.and didnt give him a copy of the order or reciept. While the price was good, he hated being treated like a number. Therefore he came to us, we honered the price he had, (even through its a deal we would normally walk away from) and he was very happy to with our service and attitude.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is this, sure in this very rare case good service provailed but too many times we spend hrs with someone, offering great service a competitive price, but because some big dealer undercuts us by a couple of hundred bucks,and sometimes even goes in the red then the deal is lost and time spent wasted.

I guess its just the way the industry has gone, even in the short time i've sold cars i've seen more and more shopping, people using up to 5-6 dealerships and even playing them off each other, its a shame but its a bit like we've created a bit of a monster shopper.

S3SR · 05-01-2008, 05:44 PM

thing is when he gives you a price today, then you'll shop around on that price or come back tomorrow and screw him down...... hey thats how it is, thats sales

all i can suggest is look at the sales price on the internet, look at what other people are advertising it for, and offer around that.......if its above cost and hes desperate he accept the offer.

im not a carsalesman but i do know our rules are get the sale, dont stuff around with best price so the customer walks and comes back to get it for nothing on some dodgy made up price, or from another place that doesnt have stock

i mean he could have done a better job of making you feel looked after without making you feel ripped and unwelcome, but hes got a job to do, thats make money not let customers walk with a good price to tell everyone else or go shoppng with.......its sad but true

Lightning Strike XR6 · 05-01-2008, 05:44 PM

The guy that served me wouldn't do a best price even though i said upfront we dont want to be stuffed around give me your best deal and we will take it from there. We were prepared to do the deal if he bought it down a bit.

troppo · 05-01-2008, 06:04 PM

I dunno if I'd agree with your time being wasted though, people don't forget good service even if they don't actually buy from you. In the example above, the gentleman you metioned is going to be telling everyone he knows to come to you, and they will come with the expectation that you are a little dearer than the 'other guy' but worth it because of the service.

I agree that it's unfortunate the industry is going that way. Personally, I think the less scrupulous dealers have pushed it in that direction. The othe thing that is beyond your control is that as consumers, we tend to see the different departments as one unit. We might get great service from you as a salesman, but then get let down by the service department later. That sort of thing can make your job a lot harder and hurt repeat business and reputation.

mitch_lx · 05-01-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnomc

The guy that served me wouldn't do a best price even though i said upfront we dont want to be stuffed around give me your best deal and we will take it from there. We were prepared to do the deal if he bought it down a bit.

I think your wording might have been your undoing.

Imagine you worked in an airconditioning store, your a customer service rep who gives advice and is able to explain the advantages and standard features of various airconditioners you offer.
Someone walks in the store, before you can even say hello, introduce yourself and shake their hand (and ask for their name) they pull out their verbal sledgehammer and say ''whats your best price on that''

: not the way to go about it.

Honestly....... HONESTLY... as a customer you will get a better deal and better service if you walk in with a calm attitude, when they shake your hand and tell you their name PLEASE give them your name. Soo many times ill be shaking someones hand saying ''My name is Mitchell........ uhhh.... whats yours??''

Take it slow, let them know which model your looking at. Let them know you have a trade in and do not expect them to have an appraisal done on your car at this stage.
Test drive the car, come back into the dealership, sit down and if the salesman is of any quality he will lead you through the rest of the sales process... talk through options, colour and RRP of the car.
If your happy with everything upto this point and you give the salesman a reason to feel confident he will get a sale IF and ONLY IF he achieves the right change over.

Honestly. we will work sooo much harder for you if you allow us to do our job properly.

Just a handy, friend work of advice. If you want fantastic service and a great price

**Falcon Coupe** · 05-01-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

I
Even if they have really really looked after you, the next dealership you walk into will always undercut any price, even if its by $50.

You play the dishonest game with us, we will play the 'no price untill you are ready to buy' game.

Sorry to say it but people like you make it hard for normal people to buy cars. You also give customers the name used in the motor trade 'buyers are liars'

Wake upto yourself

When i bought my existing car i actually paid $600.00 more than a dealer closer to my home offered.
Reason being the dealer i bought from gave me the better price up front and others had to better it, so in my opinion he deserved the sale.
He thanked me for it and threw in some nice goodies for doing so.

Lightning Strike XR6 · 05-01-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitch_lx

I think your wording might have been your undoing.

Imagine you worked in an airconditioning store, your a customer service rep who gives advice and is able to explain the advantages and standard features of various airconditioners you offer.
Someone walks in the store, before you can even say hello, introduce yourself and shake their hand (and ask for their name) they pull out their verbal sledgehammer and say ''whats your best price on that''

: not the way to go about it.

Honestly....... HONESTLY... as a customer you will get a better deal and better service if you walk in with a calm attitude, when they shake your hand and tell you their name PLEASE give them your name. Soo many times ill be shaking someones hand saying ''My name is Mitchell........ uhhh.... whats yours??''

Take it slow, let them know which model your looking at. Let them know you have a trade in and do not expect them to have an appraisal done on your car at this stage.
Test drive the car, come back into the dealership, sit down and if the salesman is of any quality he will lead you through the rest of the sales process... talk through options, colour and RRP of the car.
If your happy with everything upto this point and you give the salesman a reason to feel confident he will get a sale IF and ONLY IF he achieves the right change over.

Honestly. we will work sooo much harder for you if you allow us to do our job properly.

Just a handy, friend work of advice. If you want fantastic service and a great price

We did say the hi bit ect. I am aware not all salesman are like that most are not. But he was an exeption. We talked about the models for about 10-15minutes then he built the presure up about buying today and all that. Then i said we want to buy but don't want to stuff around just put your best offer on the table and we will take it from there. Fair i recon.

SVTVNM · 05-01-2008, 10:20 PM

No not in shepp it was the arrogant bastartds in Bendigo

troppo · 05-01-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

When i bought my existing car i actually paid $600.00 more than a dealer closer to my home offered.
Reason being the dealer i bought from gave me the better price up front and others had to better it, so in my opinion he deserved the sale.
He thanked me for it and threw in some nice goodies for doing so.

I'm assuming you contacted several dealers and rather than use a previous quote to screw down the next dealer, you instead gave each one the impression they were the first you had contacted?

If so, I think that's a pretty fair shopping technique as it gives each retailer the same opportunity to come up with a good initial price. Then go with the best offer from there if further negotiaition is required. The other advantage is that you know the price is genuine as opposed to simply beating the competition in order to get the numbers on the board.

It also works for corn flakes

Lightning Strike XR6 · 06-01-2008, 12:05 AM

Exactly mate that what i gave the guy the oppourtunity to do. He failed todo so. So i took the cash to another dealer.

jd dad · 06-01-2008, 01:27 AM

Had a similar experience when buying our cruiser. Rang a few yards and private sale vehicles and headed off early Sat morning to check them out. First stop was a yard in Geelong, salesman asked the usual questions, was I looking for anything in particular. Said yes a turbo diesel wagon which is what he had. Asked about trade in and if I needed finance, told him no we had sold our car and buying cash. Checked car and asked if we could take it for a drive? Asked if we would buy it today! Told him we had another 6 or so and that this was the first we had looked at for the day so no we wouldnt commit to it. He says it drives great if that is all to come back for a drive when we are ready to buy! Looked at him in disbelief and said ok see ya. Drove to Melb and checked out a few more and ended up commiting to one that day. Felt like driving back to the yard and showing the ignorant insect a sale he might have made if his attitude was a bit better

T_Terror · 06-01-2008, 02:15 AM

4 out of 5 dealers ive had experience with ive had similar experiences with.

Every time they push the "but are you ready to buy today" bull*hit. Its like you speak a different language.

"No, im trying to decide which model to buy. Im here to test drive. If you do a good deal and make a good impression then i will buy from yoU!".

Actually, the only guys who were good were the Toyota dealers. They just threw me the keys and said go for it, and werent pushy and offensive with their sales techniques. Im sure thats part of the reason why Toyota is the best.