P PLATES why do we need to display them?

[masters24]

Originally Posted by DRU842

As there are speed restrictions placed on a P Plater, displaying the P's allows other drivers to recognise these restrictions.

yep, SA 100kms tops... but pfft, take the plates off for the freeway trip and no-one will know.

But really, how hard it is to follow the rules every now and then. And if u get worried about people in other cars that you dont know labelling you as a "Rowdy P-plater" who cares, they dont realise how sensible some of the p-platers are, and it is their problem... :

[Psycho Chicken]

One question, in Victoria, do you have to display P-plates in a work car on work time? And do power to weight limits still apply to work cars on work time?

[kiwikid]

no in victoria power to weight ratio's dont apply to work cars, emergancy vehicle's or if it is the only car your family owns. but i still think you have to display them...

[bafel]

i say get rid of them, like a red rag to a bull for some people.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

One question, in Victoria, do you have to display P-plates in a work car on work time? And do power to weight limits still apply to work cars on work time?

Power to weight ratio's apply to all cars driven by a P Plater, and YES you have to show P Plates in any car a P Plater is driving.

Police might let you get away with Power to Weight thing ONCE in the only family car, but the law is the law and there is no exceptions.

[Psycho Chicken]

I just checked the Vicroads site, you can get an exemption for power to weight, doesn't apply automatically for work cars.

Meh, haven't been caught yet.

[Trevor 57]

Speed limiting P Platers is down right dangerous, as is speed limiting L Plates. How are people supposed to learn?

NSW for example (IMO, the worst of the lot)
* 80k's for L's
* 80k's for some P Platers
* 100k's for other P Platers
* 90k's for caravaners and trailers
* 100k's for trucks, buses and everyone else
* 110 K's for non-P Plater car drivers on designated roads.

And worse still, NSW people think those limits appply when in other States and they don't. Drivers must abide by the Laws of the State in which they are driving, for example in Victoria:
* 100 k's for L Platers
* 100k's for P Platers
* 100k's for caravaners & trailers
* 100k's for trucks, buses and everyone else, BUT
* 110k's on designated roads for all of the above (yes all of the above), except trucks & buses)

Go Figure!!

[DivHunter]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

Power to weight ratio's apply to all cars driven by a P Plater, and YES you have to show P Plates in any car a P Plater is driving.

Police might let you get away with Power to Weight thing ONCE in the only family car, but the law is the law and there is no exceptions.

They apply but there are exceptions such as your family only owning 1 car. Should check up with Vic roads/police though.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

I just checked the Vicroads site, you can get an exemption for power to weight, doesn't apply automatically for work cars.

Meh, haven't been caught yet.

Thanks for the update, and yes you are right. Vicroads in their limp-est will allow exceptions for every goddam thing if you grovel hard enough.

[Psycho Chicken]

Apparently not displaying your p plates can earn you a suspension.

Also, what's the go with motorbike licences? Is motorbike P's 3 years or 1? Or is the 1 year just for fully licenced driver?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Apparently not displaying your p plates can earn you a suspension.

Not so sure about that, it will cost you 3 demerit points and a hefty fine, all to help Bracks & Co. reduce the road toll. :togo: And 2 of those gives you 6 demerit points and you are walking now (5 points and your out)

Also, what's the go with motorbike licences? Is motorbike P's 3 years or 1? Or is the 1 year just for fully licenced driver?

Sorry, I am not up to date on Motorcycle stuff, I do know that they (Vicroads) have changed the rules on bikes a fair bit of late.

[MightyXR6Turbo]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

And worse still, NSW people think those limits appply when in other States and they don't. Drivers must abide by the Laws of the State in which they are driving, for example in Victoria:
* 100 k's for L Platers
* 100k's for P Platers
* 100k's for caravaners & trailers
* 100k's for trucks, buses and everyone else, BUT
* 110k's on designated roads for all of the above (yes all of the above), except trucks & buses)

Go Figure!!

That statement is INCORRECT. Drivers must abide by ROAD RULES in the state that they are driving in, licencing conditions are totally separate to this. You MUST drive by the conditions applied on your licence REGARDLESS of what state you are driving in. This is because you got your licence and agreed to the conditions of the licence (eg: in SA P platers are limited to 100km/h and must have a Zero BAC). Regardless of what the different state's licencing conditions are, you ALWAYS drive according to your licence conditions.

For Example: If a South Australian P plate driver drives in Queensland where P plates are not required to be displayed BY QLD LICENCE HOLDERS and an SA P plater HAS to have P plates displayed, they must still display them in QLD.

And one more example: South Australians are eligiable to get their P's at the age of 16.5, where as in Victoria that age is 18. Now, going by what Chronicle said, it would indicate that a South Australian P Plater would not be able to drive in Victoria because they are under the age that Victoria issues P's. That is also wrong, because SA P platers can happily drive in Victoria because the conditions of their licence allow them to have their Probationary Licence as soon as they turn 16.5.

I hope this is clear, but yeah, what you said Chronicle is wrong.

[deankdx]

sorry double post

[deankdx]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Also, what's the go with motorbike licences? Is motorbike P's 3 years or 1? Or is the 1 year just for fully licenced driver?

because i was a full car license holder when i got my motorbike Ps i did not have to display plates, but still had a power and passenger restriction for 1 year, wonder if this works the other way round(if you were full motorbike licensed and then went for car license, would you still have to display Ps)

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by MightyEFGhia

That statement is INCORRECT. Drivers must abide by ROAD RULES in the state that they are driving in, licencing conditions are totally separate to this. You MUST drive by the conditions applied on your licence REGARDLESS of what state you are driving in. This is because you got your licence and agreed to the conditions of the licence (eg: in SA P platers are limited to 100km/h and must have a Zero BAC). Regardless of what the different state's licencing conditions are, you ALWAYS drive according to your licence conditions.

Absolutely wrong, which Police are going to book and process you for breaking the law of another State, that is absolutely ridiculous, think about the porocess involved in that. This is not a one law Nation yet.

Think about it, a Victorian Policeman booking you for breaking the law of NSW, particularly a road law, that is absolutely stupid. In murder cases, all they can do is detain you until extradition, they can't charge you.

Do you really expect a Victorian Policeman to know ALL the laws that are particular to QLD, NSW, TAS, NT, WA, SA, NT & ACT. How can they enforce laws when the law doesn't exist in their States statute? Get real.

For Example: If a South Australian P plate driver drives in Queensland where P plates are not required to be displayed BY QLD LICENCE HOLDERS and an SA P plater HAS to have P plates displayed, they must still display them in QLD.

No they don't, make a few phone calls. How can a QLD Policeman book you for a law that doesn't exist in their State. NOT ON!!!

And one more example: South Australians are eligiable to get their P's at the age of 16.5, where as in Victoria that age is 18. Now, going by what Chronicle said, it would indicate that a South Australian P Plater would not be able to drive in Victoria because they are under the age that Victoria issues P's. That is also wrong, because SA P platers can happily drive in Victoria because the conditions of their licence allow them to have their Probationary Licence as soon as they turn 16.5.

Under mutual recognition laws Victoria will/must except a SA driver driving on Victorian roads, however they will not issue a SA resident, who moves to Victoria to live with a Victorian licence until they turn 18.

I hope this is clear, but yeah, what you said Chronicle is wrong.

Well it isn't, in fact what you state is quite wrong, I have been involved in a very close relationship with Vicroads for a lot of years. I used to do this for a full time job once. You get your facts right.

[MightyXR6Turbo]

Absolutely wrong, which Police are going to book and process you for breaking the law of another State, that is absolutely ridiculous, think about the porocess involved in that. This is not a one law Nation yet.

You are missing the point, road rules and drivers licence conditions are two seperate issues. If the Police does try to book you for it, they would be wrong (eg: an SA P Plater being pulled over for doing 100 in NSW when NSW licence holders are limited to 80). I would infact like to put it to you that Police aren't quite that stupid, and if they encounter a situation they have no idea about, they would find out before processing it. It is stupid to suggest that an SA P plater could be fined in NSW because they were doing what their drivers licence conditions have stated!

Think about it, a Victorian Policeman booking you for breaking the law of NSW, particularly a road law, that is absolutely stupid. In murder cases, all they can do is detain you until extradition, they can't charge you.

Again, you are missing the point. ROAD RULES and LICENCE CONDITIONS are two totally seperate issues. Of course if a ROAD LAW is different from state to state, no police officer say from Victoria would police a South Australian road rule.

Do you really expect a Victorian Policeman to know ALL the laws that are particular to QLD, NSW, TAS, NT, WA, SA, NT & ACT. How can they enforce laws when the law doesn't exist in their States statute? Get real.

On that same note, how can they penalise you for driving under the conditions of your licence. Regardless of what state it is issued in, you drive to the conditions of the state of issue. If its issued in NSW, you have to obey the conditions that NSW legislation has determined to be suitable for that licence. On the same token, if you have one issued in SA, you obey the conditions that are determined by SA since it was the issuing state.

No they don't, make a few phone calls. How can a QLD Policeman book you for a law that doesn't exist in their State. NOT ON!!!

Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, it was a pretty bad example, but it is still a condition of holding an SA Licence. Obviously in QLD, you wont be hassled for that.

Under mutual recognition laws Victoria will/must except a SA driver driving on Victorian roads, however they will not issue a SA resident, who moves to Victoria to live with a Victorian licence until they turn 18.

This is true. The last part about the Victorian licence application is also true, but that just justifies what I have tried to say, you have to go by the conditions of your licence from the state of issue.

Well it isn't, in fact what you state is quite wrong, I have been involved in a very close relationship with Vicroads for a lot of years. I used to do this for a full time job once. You get your facts right.

I'm not going to dispute what you have done for employment in the past, however what you are saying isn't entirely correct. I have sought clarification on this issue from Transport SA and Queensland Transport (mainly because I used to travel between these states quite often). I was so worried about this, I even had a Private Ruling letter written up by Transport SA to clarify what I have said in the event some Policeman is out of the loop. Also having family members who were/are members of the South Australian Police, I am aware that 9/10 they will not bother with interstate probationary drivers because of not explicitly knowing their conditions of having a licence.

If I need to make it clear again, the speed limits that are attached to Probationary drivers are part of their CONDITIONS on their licence. It is not a ROAD RULE per se.

[Donut Queen]

I think MightyEFGhia is right, just read what he's saying carefully. If you're in another state you have to obey BOTH their road rules and you're own licence conditions. Therefore if you're allowed to do 100km/h but the speed limit is 90km/h and you do over that then you'll get booked. Likewise, if you are only allowed to do 80km/h on your licence conditions but you're doing 90km/h then you're breaking the law, even if the speed limit is 100km/h. You probably won't be unlucky enough for a cop in another state to realise you're breaking your licence conditions or to bother booking you but technically you are in the wrong there.

[Trevor 57]

And I will say again, my original posting on speed limits in absolutely accurate. And I challenge you to dispute it accurately, and with fact, not hearsay.

A Victorian Policeman will NOT book a NSW P Plater in Victoria who is doing 110 in 110 zones if the P Platers NSW restriction is 90!

I go back to my original statement, Police can only book for stuff that is the Statute, and you will NOT find a rule that say NSW P Platers MUST do 90 in Victoria. And VICPOL will not book on behalf of NSW.

Some licence restrictions hold, such as .00 BAC as that is consistent between States, if you are required to wear glasses, etc. But not general road rules.

eg: an SA P Plater being pulled over for doing 100 in NSW when NSW licence holders are limited to 80.

In this example here, if a Victorian P Plater is in NSW, they are entitled to do 100 regardless of how long they have had their licence, as Victoria doesn't have a 2 stage P Plate system like NSW, and the same would hold for a South Australian in NSW.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Donut Queen

likewise, if you are only allowed to do 80km/h on your licence conditions but you're doing 90km/h then you're breaking the law, even if the speed limit is 100km/h.

How is the Policman in another State supposed to know your licence condtions? He/she will look at your licence and make a decision based on the laws that apply to the State in which you are driving in. (read my post above)

[Donut Queen]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

How is the Policman in another State supposed to know your licence condtions? He/she will look at your licence and make a decision based on the laws that apply to the State in which you are driving in. (read my post above)

Like I said, you're not likely to get booked for it because the policeman is not likely to know the conditions or bother booking you for it. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean that it is legal.

[Trevor 57]

I get a feeling that I am belting my head against a brick wall, and if there was a smilie here for it, I would insert it now :

[Psycho Chicken]

From; http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...ce.html?llid=2

What special rules must I follow?

P1 drivers must:

* Have P plates (red P on white background) displayed conspicuously at the front and rear of the car when driving. If placing P signs on windows, they must be held against the glass, be displayed conspicuously in the lower left-hand (passenger) side of the windscreen and on the lower left-hand side of the rear facing window and must not be placed on any other part of the window area. If towing a trailer, a P plate must be on the back of the trailer.
* Not exceed zero blood alcohol concentration (in effect, this means you cannot drink before driving).
* Observe a maximum speed limit of 90 km/h.
* Observe towing restrictions (you are only allowed to tow light trailers of up to 250 kilograms unloaded weight).
* Not accumulate more than three demerit points.
* Be restricted to driving an automatic transmission car or clutchless manual (depending on the vehicle in which the DART is undertaken).
* Not supervise a learner driver.
* Not upgrade the licence to a higher class.
* Only carry the number of passengers that can be properly seated in seats and restrained by approved seat belts or child restraints.
* Only drive a vehicle with a seat belt fitted to the driver's position and wear the seat belt.
* Not drive with any passengers in or on the boot of the vehicle.

Failure to comply with any of the above requirements is an offence and carries heavy penalties, including loss of licence.

No where does it say these only apply to driving in NSW and not other states. I'll send an email to the RTA if you want, those are restrictions and not road rules, they apply to the driver and not the state they are in. On your theory a NSW driver on red p's can rack up 4 demerit points in Victoria and still keep their licence.

[EFFalcon]

so if i'm going to drive in NSW... i legally have to drive 80 in 100 zones?
so before i go ANYWHERE, i have to research what i can and can't do?

please explain to me then, how the differences in green and red P plates gets executed for someone using Vic p plates on a vic probationary licence.

[DivHunter]

I just drive at 100/110 in the correct zones in NSW and noone bothers me, apart from some NSW drivers who didn't like a P plater overtaking them on the fwy.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

No where does it say these only apply to driving in NSW and not other states.

Of course it doesn't because the stuff you quote is from NSW.

An old saying "when in Rome do what the Romans do" applies here.
:


Oh, I am so looking forward to all the retractions that are coming my way. :

[MightyXR6Turbo]

Ok, Ok, I can't be bothered quoting and doing massive page replies...

I think Chronicle, you are agreeing now with what I said, but you are just not completely understanding what I have been trying to get across. You have to drive to the conditions of your licence!!!

We ALL agree that it is highly unlikely that you will get booked as a breach of your Probationary conditions in a different state because of different state laws, HOWEVER this doesn't mean that it is legal to do so, it just means that it is unlikely to happen. Regardless, it is still a breach of your licence condtions, licence conditions aren't isolated to driving within your state of issues boundaries! If they were, then we would never be able to drive interstate!

Ok, i said I wasn't going to quote, but I will because you just contridicted what you said, and agreed with what I said!

In this example here, if a Victorian P Plater is in NSW, they are entitled to do 100 regardless of how long they have had their licence, as Victoria doesn't have a 2 stage P Plate system like NSW, and the same would hold for a South Australian in NSW.

What you just said here totally agrees with what I said. You drive to what your licence conditions are! So you just proved that what you said about speeds is not necessarily wrong, but not entirely correct. Let me put it straight what you have said again;

a. Yes a NSW p plater can go and do 110 in victoria, BUT it doesn't mean that it is legal! They are technically breaching the conditions of their licence.
b. There is a difference between being legal, and the Police not policing it, and in this case the Police wont police this issue with interstate drivers. The same can be said for car defects, I had a car in QLD and I went into an RBT and i distinctly recall the officers saying "We should defect this car, but it got SA rego and we don't know what applies in that state"

So in summary, yes you are correct about the fact you cannot be fined/prosecuted if a statute doesnt exist in your state, BUT IT STILL ISN'T LEGAL to breach the conditions of your licence.

*makes banging head on wall motion*

[Psycho Chicken]

This should settle it, straight from the horse's mouth.

Hi Rob,

When driving in other states a NSW P1 licence holder should obey the conditions of their licence and the road rules of the interstate authority.

Please contact the interstate traffic authority to find out what the Road Rules and conditions are for that state.

Regards,

Kristy

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

This should settle it, straight from the horse's mouth.

I see that as very contradictory, how can you you sit on 80k's and 110k's at the same tiem?

[MightyXR6Turbo]

Chronicle - The difference between Road Rules and Licence Conditions, you obey Licence Conditions first, Road Rules (Road Traffic Act) second.

[deankdx]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

I see that as very contradictory, how can you you sit on 80k's and 110k's at the same tiem?

opened pandoras box with this thread,
i think chronical is right, if a P plater from NSW was diong 80km/h on say calder highway in the 110 Zone who in Victoria would understand why, they'd be tooting and swerving and wondering whats the problem(i'd never heard of doing a max speed of 80kmh. i've had my license for 12 yearsin Vic and in that time we never had this. i think it did apply earlier though)
if i was a Vic P plater driving in NSW i'd definately be doing 100 in the 100 Zone, cos once again how should we victorians be expected to know that stupid law.
obviously vic roads dont know the answer either. thats why they give their contradicting answer.