Global Green Challenge daily results

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by kircher

If you live in the city. For those of us fortunate enough to be able to drive regularly on highways and traffic that flows smoothly this is an excellent test. We already have the ADR figures which are combined city and a little highway. If you only drive in stop-start, then go by ADR, or other road tests like the one Wheels did on Mount Panorama.

So then what you're saying is there is no point to this test?
The fact they're trying to better the ADR figure, which in itself is tested within different parameters and for a different scenario really makes this whole activity pointless. Of course they will beat the ADR, it doesn't reflect 1000+km of straight driving averaging speeds of 100km/h (ideal conditions for fuel economy).

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Wretched

So then what you're saying is there is no point to this test?
The fact they're trying to better the ADR figure, which in itself is tested within different parameters and for a different scenario really makes this whole activity pointless. Of course they will beat the ADR, it doesn't reflect 1000+km of straight driving averaging speeds of 100km/h (ideal conditions for fuel economy).

same as that bathurst test, their is no cruiseing on that.

[kircher]

Originally Posted by Wretched

So then what you're saying is there is no point to this test?
The fact they're trying to better the ADR figure, which in itself is tested within different parameters and for a different scenario really makes this whole activity pointless. Of course they will beat the ADR, it doesn't reflect 1000+km of straight driving averaging speeds of 100km/h (ideal conditions for fuel economy).

Well I am more interested in the overall winner. I'm not that interested in the % difference, although the figures for the XR6 turbo are impressive. I couldn't care less if the Maloo wins biggest improvement, because it's not a car I'd ever consider buying. So for those that drive on good urban roads and do highway driving this is a relevant test.

All I meant by my previous comment was that this test is a good exercise for comparing the ultimate fuel economy of vehicles. The vehicles with good numbers here more than likely will have good numbers in reality. It's also a good test to show that even a performance car can get reasonable numbers on the highway. I for one wouldn't drive a maloo or any other gas guzzler regularly in stop start traffic. They're probably more suited to being driven on the long haul anyway, so perhaps these impressive numbers (for a 6.2L V8 and turbo 6) will convince some people to buy a performance car because they'd only use it on weekends or for going on holiday anyway where they will more than likely be doing minimal urban driving. That's where I see the relevance of the % difference component of the test.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by kircher

Well I am more interested in the overall winner. I'm not that interested in the % difference, although the figures for the XR6 turbo are impressive. I couldn't care less if the Maloo wins biggest improvement, because it's not a car I'd ever consider buying. So for those that drive on good urban roads and do highway driving this is a relevant test.

All I meant by my previous comment was that this test is a good exercise for comparing the ultimate fuel economy of vehicles. The vehicles with good numbers here more than likely will have good numbers in reality. It's also a good test to show that even a performance car can get reasonable numbers on the highway. I for one wouldn't drive a maloo or any other gas guzzler regularly in stop start traffic. They're probably more suited to being driven on the long haul anyway, so perhaps these impressive numbers (for a 6.2L V8 and turbo 6) will convince some people to buy a performance car because they'd only use it on weekends or for going on holiday anyway where they will more than likely be doing minimal urban driving. That's where I see the relevance of the % difference component of the test.

i partly agree, allthou i drive a V8 to work in traffic they are not the fuel guzzler as ppl may think.
as for ADR % enconomy i couldent care less, just want to know the actual fuel used by all car's.

ps: i failed to notice the south park smug alert car. (prius)

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Polyal

That Maloo is still as ugly as it was yesterday........

It still looks terrible from a distance!!

The Viva has to be the biggest joke out there. Petrol electric and using as much fuel as a an XR6T with almost the same CO2 emissions aswell!!
I hope Fords Marketing department are looking at this.
New ad campaign, XR6T, bigger, faster and just as fuel efficient as a Holden small car Hybrid.


Can anyone explain what the deal with the electric cars are? Are they measured on how many KM they can get between recharge and which recharges the fastest? Otherwise they seem fairly pointless.

Oh and Go the Postie!!!

[ea90gl]

They should really of conducted more testing in the cities as we all know a major percentage of the population spend their time stop start driving. Its all well and good to include highway travel but maybe not as much as they have done. No the idea isnt just to knock the Maloo off the perch but to give us a more realistic idea of each cars fuel consumption.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Can anyone explain what the deal with the electric cars are? Are they measured on how many KM they can get between recharge and which recharges the fastest? Otherwise they seem fairly pointless.

http://blog.internode.on.net
That would be the best place to start.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Thursday, 29 October 2009 CarPoint

The magic fuel consumption figure that dominates the thinking of car company engineers is 3.0 litres.

That's the lower threshold believed to be regularly achievable by conventional cars with internal combustion engines. Volkswagen's Lupo was promoted as a 'three-litre car' several years back, but in the main, reaching this figure is nigh impossible -- outside of economy runs. Even then, such a low rate of fuel 'sippage' is not easily attained.

But Ford has managed this feat in the company's Fiesta ECOnetic, competing during Day Four (yesterday) of the Global Green Challenge, 2009. Compared with its official combined-cycle consumption of 3.7L/100km, the Fiesta's result of 2.9 litres yesterday represented a 21.28 per cent improvement.

The Challenge -- and particularly the run yesterday, from Alice Springs to Cooper Pedy -- is conducted mostly on the open road, and the Fiesta's highway consumption is 3.2L/100km, according to ADR81/02.

On the face of it, reducing fuel consumption from a standard set at open-road speed limits by 0.3L/100km doesn't seem all that remarkable, but achieving this sort of top-down improvement in a car that is designed from the start to be quite frugal is all the more outstanding, in practice.

If for no other reason, Ford has scored a significant PR 'win' for the new car from this event. But we're wondering whether we'll see other fuel consumption figures tumble as the drivers sweat off some weight in the mobile saunas -- since the crews are not running air conditioning.

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/sma...-barrier-17218

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by October 29, 2009 by Matt Brogan

Ford’s Fiesta ECOnetic has officially cracked the sub-3.0L/100km fuel economy barrier, achieving a Day Four fuel economy figure of only 2.9L/100km during the Alice Springs to Cooper Pedy leg of the Global Green Challenge.

The 2.9L/100km figure equates to a 21.28 per cent improvement over the Fiesta’s already industry-leading official fuel economy number of only 3.7L/100km.

Ford’s other team entrant, the Falcon XR6 Turbo, also continued to showcase just how easily outstanding fuel economy can be matched to outstanding performance. Day Four of the Challenge saw the Falcon achieve a 6.7L/100km result – a staggering 42.33 per cent improvement over its official (combined) ADR fuel number.

The Falcon’s cumulative number is just as impressive – recording only 6.9L/100km over the course of the entire trip so far.

“The drive from Alice Springs to Cooper Pedy was the longest of the entire Green Challenge,” said Ford Team Manager Justin Lacy. “A new mandatory rest period was appreciated by the Ford teams – particularly as it proved not to have any negative effect on the fuel economy numbers that either the ECOnetic or the XR6 Turbo achieved during the day.”

Official figures for Day Five from Cooper Pedy to Port Augusta will be available later today.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/46319/fo...onomy/#respond

[Franco Cozzo]

Well Ford Marketing, present this to us.

[sgt_doofey]

I guess this is a question that has to be asked, but if the temperature was cooler, what sort of figures would these cars be returning compared to running in 40 degree temps?

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Airmon

The Viva has to be the biggest joke out there. Petrol electric and using as much fuel as a an XR6T with almost the same CO2 emissions aswell!!
I hope Fords Marketing department are looking at this.

Are you serious??? You are aware that students from Annesley College (an all girl's school) converted this thing into a hybrid petrol/electric as part of their curriculum themselves. This is their version of a how a hybrid may work and on a thrifty budget none the less and you want to knock their efforts??? From what I understand the front CV's are still joined to the wheels but the engine can be placed into neutral and turned into a generater for batteries to power the rear wheels, making this a complete all rounder. Good on them for their endeavours. Wow some people can just be so negative sometimes. :togo:

Back on topic, I can't see a loser between the Maloo or the XR6-T if they both smash their ADR figures. This is actually good news for both camps.

[Polyal]

6.9l...unreal.

Id be more interested to see what happens in the city as highway driving is a pretty easy task.

Looking good though.

Hows the Picaso doing?

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Hows the Picaso doing?

Cumulative Summary After Stage 4

[irlewy86]

Looks like the Ford backed University of Michigan Solar car finished third. Good effort considering they finished ahead of both the MIT and UNSW entries.

[a_misfit]

Final results are out for day 5.

waiting for the coming press releases:

1.Holden - Winner of the Daily ECO Challenge: Maloo ute
2.Holden - Most economical australian built large car in the Daily ECO Challenge: Commodore SIDI sporttwagon

3. Ford - Most economical car in the Daily ECO Challenge: Fezzy

Can't wait for someone to mention how economical the SIDI is based on this. :yeees:

[Windsor220]

Fiesta got 3.08 l/100. Close to the 2s!

XR6T 6.99
Holden SIDI 6.46
Maloo 7.61

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Fiesta got 3.08 l/100. Close to the 2s!

XR6T 6.99
Holden SIDI 6.46
Maloo 7.61

Solid effort by all 3 local cars. The XR6T offers the best blend though. It's already proven more accelerative than the Maloo on several occasions, and this test showed it uses 10% less.

The winner is undoubtedly the Fiesta though!

3.08L/100km. Who has the most economical car in Australia. Ford of course!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

XR6T 6.99

So, Sydney to Melbourne is 963km. A Falcon fuel tank is quite a bit smaller than Commodore at 68L.

Thats 67.3L when calculated out... Could it do it? I wouldn't try, but theoretically it could.

[burnz]

yer the commo has 73 ltr, do it easy. so will the falcon.
and syd ~ melb is 880k

[Eu-GenixX]

is the commodore sportswagon heavier than the sedan?

[Swordsman88]

For those that don't believe in the Joshau Dowling is biased story (is there anyone left...) here is an extract from his Day Six blog entry (http://carpoint.com.au/reviews/2009/...nge-2009-17173)

Originally Posted by Carpoint

The organisers put on a fancy dinner last night, and everyone seemed to be in a good mood.

We shared the table with the Holden team, who have done an amazing job in the Commodore Omega V6 SIDI car, averaging about 6.1L/100km according to their provisional figures.

They’ve been really supportive of us through the event. We also both realized that we would likely have the most efficient support crew.

While other teams have fleets of cars following their entrants, the HSV Maloo has been followed by the LPG Senator, while the Omega wagon has been followed all week by a diesel-powered Cruze sedan.

Maybe next time there should be competition for support vehicles, too.

For the record Mr Dowling the reason many of those other teams have a large support crew is that they have more cars and/or are atcually making documentaries etc. of the event. i.e. they are lugging filming equipment with them. I mean who cares how many support cars are in use anyway....why mention it. And for the record, the 'provisional' Sportwagon figures are bulldust. According the current running averages from Day 5 (follow the link provided in OP) the Omega is doing 6.46, not 6.1:

Its not like holden/hsv have the smallest support crew either...apparently the skoda is hauling its own luggage!!!!

This guy can't get off his high horse about the support crew. Or is it just that he is desperate to have something to talk about RE holden/HSV at all times. Besides, I think Ford has two territorities and a Mondel LX wagon...hardly a traveling caravan now is it?

The more i look at these figures the more and more likely that Ford would have beat the Sportwagon with a ZF I6 NA. If the turbo engined car gets within 0.5 L/100km take the turbo off and up the compression ratio and i think you'd get it no prob....

[greenfoam]

The Fiesta is off the hook !, All it needs is another 10psi in it and it would be the perfect car

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

The more i look at these figures the more and more likely that Ford would have beat the Sportwagon with a ZF I6 NA. If the turbo engined car gets within 0.5 L/100km take the turbo off and up the compression ratio and i think you'd get it no prob....

I reckon, just wait until the I6 goes direct injection as well. Then we'll be comparing apples with apples. For an engine that is 1.0L larger in capacity, has better torque and power figures and doesn't have DI, it's not too far off what the SIDI did. I think that's impressive.
Ford probably went the turbo route for the low down torque that it would produce. Probably much better for cruising than the NA I6 as it's already in the sweet sport on the torque curve whilst cruising.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

I reckon, just wait until the I6 goes direct injection as well. Then we'll be comparing apples with apples. For an engine that is 1.0L larger in capacity, has better torque and power figures and doesn't have DI, it's not too far off what the SIDI did. I think that's impressive.
Ford probably went the turbo route for the low down torque that it would produce. Probably much better for cruising than the NA I6 as it's already in the sweet sport on the torque curve whilst cruising.

Well with the capability it has now i don't think ford will even bother with DI on the 4.0 litre for some time. Holden put DI on their alloytecs because they were uncompetitive dogs. It was about useable horsepower as much as fuel burn. Ford has a 3.7 V6 duratec that pumps out between 200-230kw and 370-380nm...without DI. Pfft....a cadilac (uncastrated) 3.6 alloytec does 224kw and 370nm with DI...what a joke. So much for that 10% more power and 15% more torque DI is supposed to give you....

I can't really agree on the torque theory (though i don't doubt it makes it easier to drive) RE fuel burn though. At the average speeds these guys are doing (70-90km/h) on the open road, flatish terain a 4.0 would have more than enough grunt without the turbo. Burbling along at 1300rpm in 6th (or 1600 in 5th) at 90km/h is not going to tax either Turbo or Atmo engine. But it will cause problems for the turbo RE efficiency because no matter what the VCT does it is still inherently less efficient due to the lower compression ration. You might save a bit going up hills (assuming it downshifts a bit less) but you are making SFA boost at those RPM so....

Fact is Ford went for the biggest % improvment over ADR. Which they would have won had HSV not hastilly entered the Maloo (probably with Downling's prompting...after he realised Ford would win...) to take the crown. While i dont' knock HSV for doing it (they probaly wanted the omega to win it, but Ford put paid to that...) it was a dirty trick primarily because its ADR is so horrid. A car with 15.1 L/100km ADR entered in a economy drive. Its a joke.

As for SIDI versus 4.0T...well as i noted earlier....

XR6T running 6.98 L/100km cumulative. THAT IS INSANE for a car of that grunt to get into the 6s. The Omega sportwagon is doing a 6.4 so far....so even though it is highway buffered (with the maloo at 7.6....) getting a similar weight car to do within 0.5 L/100 with an engine 33% bigger, with 42% morem power and a disturbing 84% more torque..... staggering....

[burnz]

yeah that hsv is doing real well for the cubes and grunt that was intended for, economy should have been hsv achellies.

the fiesta is showing what diesel's should be doing.

and the smug alert car is doing what i suspected, F all.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Eu-GenixX

is the commodore sportswagon heavier than the sedan?

they are typicily are 60kg average heavier, but i dont know about the VE mass. (VT ~VZ)

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by burnz

yeah that hsv is doing real well for the cubes and grunt that was intended for, economy should have been hsv achellies.

the fiesta is showing what diesel's should be doing.

and the smug alert car is doing what i suspected, F all.

Yes love it or hate it (and by god it is still ugly...) the guys in that car are working their buts off. Old dowling never worked so hard for a underhanded bribe in his life LOL! Makes you wonder what a whole bunch of really nasty fuel burners can do in the future to win. I reckon a GT-E should take a run next year.. but its ADR is still not high enough (manual is 14.7....).or a Territory Turbo. It has a very respectable ADR of 14.3...but i suppose aero wouldnt help it.... Bet they change the rules now.

What is this smug alert car burnz.....not sure im familiar with that terminology....

[burnz]

prius and/or other hybrid's
RE: south park done a hybrid show where the smug would sniff their own farts, they were better than everybody that didnt own a prius.

[Swordsman88]

Though i appreciate the south park reference burnz (we all know hybrids are very so so real world wise) it is worth noting the only hybrid there is a small scale school project. None of the big names turned up (because it wont' work). Here is a post from Bud Bud earlier about the Holden Viva...

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Are you serious??? You are aware that students from Annesley College (an all girl's school) converted this thing into a hybrid petrol/electric as part of their curriculum themselves. This is their version of a how a hybrid may work and on a thrifty budget none the less and you want to knock their efforts??? From what I understand the front CV's are still joined to the wheels but the engine can be placed into neutral and turned into a generater for batteries to power the rear wheels, making this a complete all rounder. Good on them for their endeavours. Wow some people can just be so negative sometimes. :togo:

.