GM Sticks with Pushrods - Page 3

Nikked · 25-10-2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

Enjoy both while we still can..
What the Corvette Z06 does, with pushrods.. freaks the Euro's out.
So good on them.

Just like a Mustang embarrasses euro trash with its "outdated" rear suspension...

Sprint · 25-10-2012, 08:29 PM

I run both but i have the common sence to know which is better, nothing wrong with my windsor motor at all but if i could afford to replace them all with miami motors i would.

Look at the cosworth v8,its old but wow.

Another factor overhead cams gives you is more than two valves per cylinder and true hemiphirical head designs.

Again no one is bagging the old motors but it is 2010+

FPV GTHO · 25-10-2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

The GM engine uses OHV technology, newer then OHC.

What's outdated now?

Both are old, your flawed logic is flawed.

Overhead cam is still overhead valve though. The fundamental difference is still the cam location, to which the pushrod OHV layout still has roots with the earlier flathead, T head and F head engines.

ivorya · 25-10-2012, 08:52 PM

This VVT on a aingle cam??

So how much variance will they have in comparison to a true vvt-Dohc?

Looking forward to seeing this one

FPV GTHO · 25-10-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivorya

This VVT on a aingle cam??

So how much variance will they have in comparison to a true vvt-Dohc?

Looking forward to seeing this one

As much as an AU VCT, BA I6, Barra 220/230..probably a few other engines. The AU and Barra220/230 are SOHC and the BA I6 still phases the cams in sync.

**DJM83** · 25-10-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

pardon us for be pro ford on a FORD forum how silly of us we should all be finding ways to drag ford down and praise holden
I can't for the life of me understand why we have people on here singing the praises of everything holden and being critical of the make we are supposed to support here
maybe some of you are on the wrong site???

Uumm no, im not being pro GM im talking engine tech not brands. Im not praising Olden either for that matter, again im talking engine tech. Be it in a Kia, Noble or Koenigsegg.
Im as blue as blue.

pottery beige · 25-10-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

pardon us for be pro ford on a FORD forum how silly of us we should all be finding ways to drag ford down and praise holden
I can't for the life of me understand why we have people on here singing the praises of everything holden and being critical of the make we are supposed to support here
maybe some of you are on the wrong site???

and this is my pushrod V8 FORD....

iron block, iron heads, two valves baby combo..

i dont give a rats how it is done or what badge it wears in this world of down sizing..

air pump

**SSD-85** · 25-10-2012, 09:06 PM

You would think that people would be happy that ANY petrol powered eight cylinder engines still exist in passenger vehicles in this day & age.....

I know I am.

**Dave R** · 25-10-2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

pardon us for be pro ford on a FORD forum how silly of us we should all be finding ways to drag ford down and praise holden
I can't for the life of me understand why we have people on here singing the praises of everything holden and being critical of the make we are supposed to support here
maybe some of you are on the wrong site???

I don't care for your anti-GM agenda.

Forgive me (and the rest of us) for not being immature enough to bag out a motor that nobody has driven yet, on the basis that it uses pushrods and wears a GM badge. I've really got no time for this fanboy crap.

And me, I have no idea why I'd be on a Ford forum. It might have something to do with the three FG Falcons I've purchased. I vote with my wallet.

pottery beige · 25-10-2012, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

I run both but i have the common sence to know which is better, nothing wrong with my windsor motor at all but if i could afford to replace them all with miami motors i would.

Look at the cosworth v8,its old but wow.

Another factor overhead cams gives you is more than two valves per cylinder and true hemiphirical head designs.

Again no one is bagging the old motors but it is 2010+

hemi heads are ****.. take much more advantage of swirl with a two valve head..

true story

Windsor220 · 25-10-2012, 09:58 PM

Both have pros and cons. If GM can still keep it up to emission standard then they can do whatever they want.

XR Martin · 25-10-2012, 10:17 PM

This pic should explain the main reason...

LS1 vs Nissan 3.5L V6

Windsor220 · 25-10-2012, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

This pic should explain the main reason...

LS1 vs Nissan 3.5L V6

image

Not as much difference as it seems there. The Nissan still has the alternator, A/C connected and a lot of loose wiring up top.

Bossxr8 · 25-10-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3ts50

I don't hear any of the push rod haters here bagging out Bentley for still usinng pushrod V8's in some of their cars.

They are 6.75 litres in capacity and turbocharged. Funnily enough they use DOHC in their sportscars

So what happened to the 5.5, is that going to be a replacement for the 6 litre in the SS? This 6.2 will only replace the LS3 in the HSV's, what of the 6 litre's replacement?

All Ford need to do to keep pace with HSV's new engines is to up boost pressure 0.5 psi

At least in terms of badgework, we all know they are well past 335.

2011G6E · 25-10-2012, 10:48 PM

"Old fashioned" pushrod engines? Shorter engine, cheaper to build, lighter weight, less complexity, less to go wrong, easier to modify...

Nope, no idea why anyone would want to stick with pushrods...

That picture of the LS1 sitting next to a "small capacity" V6 says it all...

jpd80 · 25-10-2012, 10:53 PM

Brazen · 25-10-2012, 11:07 PM

Look at the size difference between the 4.6 modular OHC and the Windsor...

Buntz · 26-10-2012, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

We arent dragging ford down and praising holden. We were simply talking about two different ways to make power. This isnt about ford or holden or GM. I would still be saying the exact same thing if ford produced a DOHC V8 and a pushrod. And to be fair if the DOHC was naturally aspirated and they both had same power. I would probably take the pushrod.

Exactly. I'm a OHC man. But there's nothing wrong with Pushrods when it enables your targets. Which is a more compact unit which gives inherent weight balance and centre of gravity performance over an OHC V8.

This is exactly what GM wants for the Corvette. And seeing as they don't care what V8 power their other cars... they may as well use Pushrods too.

If I had a Ford GT. I'd take out the OHC 5.4SC V8 they put in it... and drop in a worked Roush 7.0L pushrod alloy V8. Take it back to it's roots when won Le Mans.

40RDT · 26-10-2012, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Look at the size difference between the 4.6 modular OHC and the Windsor...

image

Thats a massive difference

jpd80 · 26-10-2012, 07:05 AM

[QUOTE=Brazen]Look at the size difference between the 4.6 modular OHC and the Windsor...

When you're talking about packaging, that's the difference, AUs an BAs were originally meant to take the 5.0,
you could imagine the difficulties encountered by Ford having to find room in Falcon's engine bay for the Boss 5.4

Could you imagine a modern Windsor with VCT and DI, the packaging would be fantastic.

OzJavelin · 26-10-2012, 08:17 AM

I’d suggest most seem to look at the photo on the front page of the article, see that it’s still a narrow engine with narrow heads so they know it’s still pushrod actuated and don’t bother reading anything else .. other than to quickly scan for the displacement so they can see if it’s bigger than OHC equivalents.

They forget there is actually a lot of technology and sophistication in these engines. They are not just an aluminium derivative of a 1955 265V8 with a computer bolted on.

If you can produce the same power, torque and economy from simpler machinery (albeit larger capacity) .. who cares?

rex351 · 26-10-2012, 08:29 AM

KISS theory?

**DJM83** · 26-10-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Look at the size difference between the 4.6 modular OHC and the Windsor...

image

Far out, I knew the BOSS was big but bloody hell, makes the little Windsor look ... Well little.

Hulsty · 26-10-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

Another factor overhead cams gives you is more than two valves per cylinder and true hemiphirical head designs.

Incorrect, both push rod and OHC cam engines can be multi valve (ie greater than two) Multi valve push rod engines are not common but do exist.

noosacuda · 26-10-2012, 08:56 AM

Well buy a fricken ROTARY... NO CAMS!!!!

OzJavelin · 26-10-2012, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Well buy a fricken ROTARY... NO CAMS!!!!

Two-stroke!!

Hulsty · 26-10-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

holden seems to be stuck in a cycle of drill it out and put bigger slugs in rather than moving with the times . lets face it, this is just a tarted up tractor engine.
to the best of my knowledge there ahasn't been a push rod engine in FOAs line up for 10 years , the last one being the 5.0 windsor

lets look at figures
GM 6.2L pushrod V8 335 KW
Ford 5.0L quad cam V8 335KW
Ford 4.0 twin cam I6 310 KW

using technology you can have a 4.0 6 that is only 25Kw short of a 6.2L tractor engine

Those figures are meaningless, N/A vs boosted engines and the 6.2L HSV currently use is 325kw not 335kw.

N/A Equivalent year engines.

Ford 5.4L 290kw 53.70kw/L OHC
Ford 4.0L 195kw 48.75kw/L OHC
FPV 5.4L 315kw 58.33kw/L OHC
HSV 6.2L 325kw 52.42 kw/L Pushrod
GM 6.0L 270kw 45kw/L Pushrod
GM 3.0L 190kw 63.33kw/L OHC
GM 3.6L 210kw 58.33kw/L OHC

FI Engines

FPV 5.0L 335kw 67kw/L OHC Supercharged
FPV 4.0L 310kw 77.5kw/L OHC Turbo
GM LS9 6.2L 476kw 76.77kw/L Pushrod Supercharged
GM LSA 6.2L 432kw 69.67kw/L Pushrod Supercharged
Shelby GT500 486kw 83.79kw/L OHC Supercharged

Sprint · 26-10-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulsty

Incorrect, both push rod and OHC cam engines can be multi valve (ie greater than two) Multi valve push rod engines are not common but do exist.

show me one, im guessing it would be from the early 1900,s when engineering was open minded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Thats a massive difference

Quote:

Originally Posted by rex351

KISS theory?

Im sorry but making a arguement that one is smaller and simplier does not really make it better.

Its a few factors but what about technology lol, the stone wheel evolved and that turned out ok.

OzJavelin · 26-10-2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

show me one, im guessing it would be from the early 1900,s when engineering was open minded.

I'd doubt you'll find a PRODUCTION multi-valve OHV engine ... but just about everyone played with them in the 60's. Most the GM divisions built prototypes - the Olds one was pretty famous. Ford apparently developed 427 "Calliope". Chrysler modded the 426 Hemi for multi-valve ........ but all of them were probably developed for racing and all were killed off by regulations before they could fly.

If you look at a Chrysler Hemi V8 or Polysphere you'll see the valves opposed using weird and wonderful rocker arrangements to actuate them via pushrods. It's a easy to stretch to understand how the same rockers could be use to activate multiple valves.

This thread has some interesting pix: http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-...ysler-did.html

66FAIRLANE · 26-10-2012, 01:44 PM

I'm sorry but there is only one OHC V8 that does it for me and it looks like this

Other than that I will take pushrods anyday.