What will happen to Toyota's Australian manufacturing activities?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Fiscally responsible, hardly? This a purely ideological decision based on Liberal party right-wing philosophy on the role of Government. Australia is the twelth largest economy in the world - the industry takes the equivalent of loose change behind the couch.

Looking at the numbers you would be mad not to support the car industry, $180 million a year assistance to sustain an industry of 100,000 people and and which contributes over $4 billion to the economy annually (let alone almost a billion in PAYG income tax a year).

Yes, the Government actually profits from the subsidy, to say he is being fiscally responsible is so far from the truth its almost funny.

If we really wanted to crack down on subsidies what about the $1.6 billion FBT incentives, or the $3 billion in handouts given to mining companies annually, or the most horrendous subsidy at all - the $5billion in negative gearing allowances given to property investors (which drives up housing prices through the roof and ties about a trillion dollars in bank capital which makes it harder to finance things that actually produce stuff for the economy).

If those numbers a little too big, what about the $750 million in annual wage rises given last year for federal public servants?

But let's keep taking about blank cheques...

Where is gods names are you getting 100,000 people employed in the Auto manufacturing sector from??

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It would be good to see Governments make sensible, informed decisions. Both sides I think have been guilty of following ideologies rather than facts.

You see, here is the thing... What you consider to be "sensible, informed decisions" is not what the person next to you thinks!!

[BroadyFord]

Dowling had another 'the end is nigh' article this morning.

That was enough to unfollow him on twitter. Can't take it anymore!

[mif73]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Dowling had another 'the end is nigh' article this morning.

That was enough to unfollow him on twitter. Can't take it anymore!

Gee i though dowling and the like would have rested well after their years of hard work knocking aussie cars.
Oh hang on, he still has to smash oz made toyotas.

[BroadyFord]

Dowling's checklist:

Ford: check
Holden: check
Toyota:
Kenworth:
Iveco:
Volvo:
Volgren:
Tomcar:
Bushmaster:

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You see, here is the thing... What you consider to be "sensible, informed decisions" is not what the person next to you thinks!!

Ok, let’s simplify this then. The car industry “costs” the government $180 Million or whatever it is per year in financial support, but the car industry spends billions in Australia per year. In 2011/12 the industry in total paid $10 Billion in taxes across three tiers of government. That’s the FCAI’s number by the way, not mine.

In FY 2009/2010, the car industry in Australia spent $668 Million on manufacturing R&D alone.

That's quite a chunk of cash going into the national economy.

Wouldn’t you rather that money be spent in your country than someone else’s?

[mik]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It would be good to see Governments make sensible, informed decisions. Both sides I think have been guilty of following ideologies rather than facts.

I agree mate, but we have been heading down this path for decades, every year we trade more, import more and get further into debt, when was the last time we heard govco on the airways saying please buy Australian and really mean it, there is a very good clip on the tube I think that shows just why our manufacturing is where it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnKJUu07rE
I might add I hope Toyota can kick on, but I don't like their chances in the long run.

[castellan]

Aussie made camry aurion over 100,000 were made this year and 90% exported i believe.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Fiscally responsible, hardly? This a purely ideological decision based on Liberal party right-wing philosophy on the role of Government. Australia is the twelth largest economy in the world - the industry takes the equivalent of loose change behind the couch.

Looking at the numbers you would be mad not to support the car industry, $180 million a year assistance to sustain an industry of 100,000 people and and which contributes over $4 billion to the economy annually (let alone almost a billion in PAYG income tax a year).

Yes, the Government actually profits from the subsidy, to say he is being fiscally responsible is so far from the truth its almost funny.

If we really wanted to crack down on subsidies what about the $1.6 billion FBT incentivesI, or the $3 billion in handouts given to mining companies annually, or the most horrendous subsidy at all - the $5billion in negative gearing allowances given to property investors (which drives up housing prices through the roof and ties about a trillion dollars in bank capital which makes it harder to finance things that actually produce stuff for the economy).

If those numbers a little too big, what about the $750 million in annual wage rises given last year for federal public servants?

But let's keep taking about blank cheques...

You just plucked all those figures from thin air, didnt you. The industry gets $180 million per year??? Holden alone was getting that. The industry was getting around $500 million per year in government money, and over $1 billion per year in tariff protection.

It employs 100,000 people contributing $4 billion to the economy??? That means each job is contributing $40,000. Not too viable if they are getting paid over $50,000 per year ( and thats not even taken into account parts etc).

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Dowling had another 'the end is nigh' article this morning.

That was enough to unfollow him on twitter. Can't take it anymore!

Joshua Dowling is an industry stalwart compared to Paul Pottinger's editoral rants in the Sun Cars guide on the last 2 Fridays.

It was just a diatribe of condescending drivel. Standards continue to fall at Cars guide unfortunately.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You just plucked all those figures from thin air, didnt you. The industry gets $180 million per year??? Holden alone was getting that. The industry was getting around $500 million per year in government money, and over $1 billion per year in tariff protection.

It employs 100,000 people contributing $4 billion to the economy??? That means each job is contributing $40,000. Not too viable if they are getting paid over $50,000 per year ( and thats not even taken into account parts etc).

Bob, you will get more recognition in the Sun comments forum.
Go there, this place is for ford enthusiasts.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Ok, let’s simplify this then. The car industry “costs” the government $180 Million or whatever it is per year in financial support, but the car industry spends billions in Australia per year. In 2011/12 the industry in total paid $10 Billion in taxes across three tiers of government. That’s the FCAI’s number by the way, not mine.

In FY 2009/2010, the car industry in Australia spent $668 Million on manufacturing R&D alone.

That's quite a chunk of cash going into the national economy.

Wouldn’t you rather that money be spent in your country than someone else’s?

I never gave an opinion myself!!! But want you say makes sense to me. However, I'd bet my house that someone with the opposite opinion could come up with a bunch of facts & figures that make the very opposite of what you are saying look just as good too. Which gets me back to my point “everyone has a different opinion on what is right & good!!”.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You just plucked all those figures from thin air, didnt you. The industry gets $180 million per year??? Holden alone was getting that. The industry was getting around $500 million per year in government money, and over $1 billion per year in tariff protection.

It employs 100,000 people contributing $4 billion to the economy??? That means each job is contributing $40,000. Not too viable if they are getting paid over $50,000 per year ( and thats not even taken into account parts etc).

Something you forgot is the G.S.T component on all transactions , if this applies during transactions between manufacturer and parts supplier during the manufacturing stage I have no idea . If it doesn't I wonder why , if it does exist it would be a HUGE earner for the government by itself .
Further those earning 40 G a year are contributing to the tax base positively , not pulling 15 out of it sitting on the dole .
Brazen made a lot more sense with one of his posts than the hundreds of posts regarding the demise of the oz car industry . No obvious bias one way or the other , pointing out the downsides of losing it ( among others ) that will effect everyone at some point in the future . As he said if you don't have the ability to manufacture your own , grow your own or develop your own you are at the mercy of everyone who does ,end of story .

[BroadyFord]

Unions indeed have there place in society, but often do more harm than good.

Toyota's Altona plant to start 21-day shutdown amid survival fears

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/to...#ixzz2nj7iIUyn

Workers at Toyota's Altona plant will on Wednesday afternoon down tools for 21 days – the longest holiday shutdown at any of the car maker's 54 plants across the globe.
By comparison, the plant in Japan that Melbourne is competing against to build Toyota's next Camry model will shut for only five days over New Year.
Toyota is considering closing the Altona plant, following decisions by Ford and Holden to end manufacturing in Australia.
As the company contemplates its survival in Australia, key component suppliers have offered fresh guarantees to continue supporting the car maker.
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Toyota has asked its 2500 employees at Altona to accept reduced conditions to help save the car plant.
The company was last week prevented by a Federal Court judgment from putting 27 cost-cutting measures to a vote of staff. The company will decide whether to appeal that decision by Thursday.
Among the demands Toyota had wanted to put to its workforce was reducing the 21-day summer shutdown to 10 days.
Elsewhere across the 28 countries where Toyota manufactures cars, a 10-day shutdown is the longest closure for Christmas.
Tsutsumi, the plant in the Japanese city of Toyota that Melbourne is pitted against to make the next Camry, will shut down from December 28 to January 6 - five working days.
But the head of the vehicles union, Dave Smith, said the company had options open to it if it wanted to have staff work over Christmas. "Toyota ... want a process that just allows them to implement whatever break they want," he said.
Toyota argues that time is running out to decide where the new Camry and Aurion models will be built from 2018, and says it needs to show the company's Japanese head office it can reduce the cost of making each car by $3800.
Parts suppliers to the company, though, have said they are prepared to downsize and diversify as a means of continuing to support the car maker.
There are fears the majority of Toyota's suppliers will not be able to sustain the necessary critical mass to survive when Ford leaves Australia in 2016 and Holden in 2017.
Toyota relies on about 60 suppliers to produce components for local and exported vehicles, and is in the process of contacting each to ask whether they could survive on a reduced scale.
Dean Lomas is a director of VDMG, which supplies interior and exterior plastics to Toyota, Holden and Ford. Mr Lomas said he would continue to support Toyota in a reduced capacity.
The company employs about 600 people, and Mr Lomas said Ford and Holden's closure would probably mean cutting his operation back to 350 employees.
"If Toyota stays, we can actually support them but we would be working very hard to replace the lost revenue from GM and Ford," said Mr Lomas, who added the company would have to diversify into other products using the skills it had built up in the auto industry. "We're certainly not about to throw in the towel and give up fighting.”
Toyota has received similar guarantees from more than a dozen of the part suppliers it has contacted so far, including light manufacturer Hella and chassis specialist Metalsa.
Another potential saving grace for parts suppliers could be realised as early as Friday, when the Productivity Commission releases an interim report on automotive subsidies. With two of Australia's three car makers pulling out, component manufacturers could be in line to receive additional assistance to increase their export markets.

[Vormund]

A 21 day shutdown? That's ridiculous.

I'm actually a Union rep in for my business in a different industry and I think that's downright idiotic.

If I was a union member working at Toyota I'd be stopping my union fees and encouraging others to do the same.

[danzvtil]

toyota cant be a true supplier of cars to the unwashed masses until bogans refer to them as "Toyota's"

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Something you forgot is the G.S.T component on all transactions , if this applies during transactions between manufacturer and parts supplier during the manufacturing stage I have no idea . If it doesn't I wonder why , if it does exist it would be a HUGE earner for the government by itself .
Further those earning 40 G a year are contributing to the tax base positively , not pulling 15 out of it sitting on the dole .
Brazen made a lot more sense with one of his posts than the hundreds of posts regarding the demise of the oz car industry . No obvious bias one way or the other , pointing out the downsides of losing it ( among others ) that will effect everyone at some point in the future . As he said if you don't have the ability to manufacture your own , grow your own or develop your own you are at the mercy of everyone who does ,end of story .

Let me help you on the GST part. GST is only paid by the end consumer, so it makes no difference if the car is imported or made locally. Any GST paid or collected by businesses along the chain is either paid back to the government or refunded by the government. Businesses don't paying GST.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Vormund

A 21 day shutdown? That's ridiculous.

I'm actually a Union rep in for my business in a different industry and I think that's downright idiotic.

If I was a union member working at Toyota I'd be stopping my union fees and encouraging others to do the same.

Ford are shutting down for a month this summer. They have shut down for longer previously. But I guess Toyota actually has people that want their product.

[BroadyFord]

The workers/unions at Toyota are complacent.

"We can't keep up with export demand so it's obvious Toyota won't be going anywhere. Let's celebrate with a 3-week Christmas break!"

[BroadyFord]

Toyota today lodged an appeal against last week's judgement on EBA.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Vormund

A 21 day shutdown? That's ridiculous.

I'm actually a Union rep in for my business in a different industry and I think that's downright idiotic.

If I was a union member working at Toyota I'd be stopping my union fees and encouraging others to do the same.

I agree. Also a union rep. I just wonder sometimes whether the golden goose will kill the egg-maybe some of us need to be more strategic in our thinking.
21 day shutdown is just arrogance from these guys.
They need to get real.

[mik]

One thing I have seen in this day and age is often people in the job don't actually give a toss if their employers close down, and that is because of these big payouts given to employees for working x amount of years, I honestly think many actually want these company's to go broke just so they can get their pay out,
it is not really a system that promotes loyalty.......... I would expect the Japanese work ethic to be totally different.

[vztrt]

I'm hearing that the employees want to vote on this but it seems the reps aren't allowing it.....mind you they all couldn't get into a room either.

[BroadyFord]

[/CENTER]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I'm hearing that the employees want to vote on this but it seems the reps aren't allowing it.....mind you they all couldn't get into a room either.

You mean vote in favor of reforms?

Says it all really...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

[/CENTER]

You mean vote in favor of reforms?

Says it all really...

Yes vote in favour to except the changes to the EBA.

[Syndrome]

As I suspected when I started this thread, Toyota will cease making cars in Australia. They just announced closure will be in 2017.

http://www.news.com.au/national/brea...-1226822810074

[mif73]

I had a feeling that would happen soon enough, but i thought they would have kept the engine plant open for export as they only just opened a new engine line last year .

Oh well. Lets all import all our cars from Thailand now.

[Syndrome]

Just goes to show that capital expenditure is no guarantee a company will stay put.