China to build new commodore

[stevz]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Australia isn't the center of the universe, all we do is dig up gold and send iron ore to China.

Yeah, and when that ends, then what will we be? Nothing but a great big rubbish tip.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Unfortunately, global business doesn't work like this...you can't go on for years on the hope that desirable economic conditions make return.

So I guess every business in the world should just shut down when economic conditions get tough?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

So I guess every business in the world should just shut down when economic conditions get tough?

ugh...


What rock are you living under?

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

Yeah, and when that ends, then what will we be? Nothing but a great big rubbish tip.

Who knows, I'm sure we'll find some new industry.

But here's the harsh reality for all the doomsayers pretending our tiny automotive manufacturing industry was the one and only thing keeping Australia going; building a few thousand cars here wouldn't change that outcome. Our manufacturing industry is running at a loss, and a consistent loss for many years now.

[Brodes]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

are we too good for Chinese cars, are they unworthy to build us cars?

..Yes

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

ugh...


What rock are you living under?

What's your point?

Stop trying to provoke a reaction from me because you're not going to get one.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

I dont get the outrage, are we too good for Chinese cars, are they unworthy to build us cars?

Bingo...

Great Wall and Chery are a perfect indication of the calibre of Chinese auto manufacturing. We don't want or need rubbish like that here.
They have also proven time and time again that they have very poor ethics, with zero regard for any sort of oh&s etc and are prepared to take all sorts of short cuts just to save a dollar, even if it means putting people's lives at risk.
The asbestos in the Great Wall cars and the use of poisonous materials such as lead in children's toys are just a couple of examples that spring to mind.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

What's your point?

Stop trying to provoke a reaction from me because you're not going to get one.

The point is, since the first ever sea shells was traded for some goods, as soon as economic conditions become un-favourable, companies have to make harsh decisions on whether to ride the storm out or not.

Its not just in Australia, its not just a auto manufacturing sector problem...

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Brodes

..Yes

Explain to me how a country that builds basic, large, RWD sedans with very little tech and features by modern standards, then chuck the biggest motor they can find in it is too good for a country that has emerged as one of the biggest producers of cars on the planet?

I notice that part of the world is good enough to build us all of our appliances and electrics...

China are the next superpower, and superpower as in bigger/more powerful than the Yanks in a few years time (they arguably already are, alot of Americas debt is to China) so if we stick our nose up and act all arrogant we'll miss out on many of the future advancements.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

Bingo...

Great Wall and Chery are a perfect indication of the calibre of Chinese auto manufacturing. We don't want or need rubbish like that here.

The Chinese auto manufacturing industry has improved 20 fold in 5 years, by 2017 they'll be building cars even better. And Falcodore standards really aren't that high. Basic engineering, cheap plastic, bad paintjobs, faulty electrics is the norm.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

The Chinese auto manufacturing industry has improved 20 fold in 5 years, by 2017 they'll be building cars even better. And Falcodore standards really aren't that high. Basic engineering, cheap plastic, bad paintjobs, faulty electrics is the norm.

If they have improved so much I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it.

The quality of Aussie built Falcons and Commodores is at Rolls Royce levels compared to the third world rubbish that China dishes out.

[Brodes]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Explain to me how a country that builds basic, large, RWD sedans with very little tech and features by modern standards, then chuck the biggest motor they can find in it is too good for a country that has emerged as one of the biggest producers of cars on the planet?

I notice that part of the world is good enough to build us all of our appliances and electrics...

China are the next superpower, and superpower as in bigger/more powerful than the Yanks in a few years time (they arguably already are, alot of Americas debt is to China) so if we stick our nose up and act all arrogant we'll miss out on many of the future advancements.

I'm not saying that our cars are up modern standards in comparison to what the rest of the world is producing, my disagreement to other countries producing our goods is purely an economic manufacturing opinion. I'd rather see Australia produce all our goods & supply ourselves than send our money offshore. Ford & Holden clearly failed to adapt to the market's needs to continue their survival, but free trade & high manufacturing costs is taking its toll too. I'm sure you would agree.
Good on China for having the right economic conditions to attract large corporate investment, but it's a battle between all countries for these industries.

Welcome to globalisation.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stevz

Not much to say really... The yanks killed Holden just like they killed Ford Australia through poor management, backward thinking and terrible decisions.
Could you imagine what Holden and Ford Australia could have been with some decent management?

Ford and Holden saw their cars go form prime time performers to irrelevant fringe dwellers inside 15 years.
Unless both were prepared to tear up their entire business plan and remake themselves, change was inevitable.
I was hoping that both would simply hop onto global vehicle platforms here and that most would swallow their pride
and get on board..

I think the yanks saw Asian plants as way more profitable and have been waiting for an excuse to end their
Australian manufacturing. Money and where its best invested played a part in the end and asking US companies
to invest in products no longer giving satisfactory returns was always a big ask, I'm surprised that both brands
are allowing their Aussie plants to continue for so long....

[FGX-351]

My brothers V240 Great Wall was written off from a fairly minor hit, he's lucky he wasný seriously injured.
The way it folded up was crazy.

To be fair the Chinese will improve in leaps & bounds but right now the Quality just isn't there, even compared to cars built here.

I don't personally believe they'll be able to match the Japanese but i'm happy & interested to be proven wrong.

[MethodX]

Funny how the Ford is more aussie dinky di than holden comments have ended now...

But ford is still apparently better cos they sell under one name...

[Syndrome]

Gee the media is a bit slow. GM have been building a version of the VE in China for a few years now (Buick Park Avenue based on the long wheel base VE platform).



This was always destined to occur as GM China is slowly being brought up to speed.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I was hoping that both would simply hop onto global vehicle platforms here and that most would swallow their pride and get on board

The way people constantly make out that Aussie content + RWD + performance is all that matters with cars, a locally built, but globally sourced would still attract the same negative opinion...well, at least from internet trolls....


Imagine if instead of the EA28 based AU, we had a D3 or DEW98 based vehicle, with a choice of global engine options?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

My brothers V240 Great Wall was written off from a fairly minor hit, he's lucky he wasný seriously injured.
The way it folded up was crazy.

To be fair the Chinese will improve in leaps & bounds but right now the Quality just isn't there, even compared to cars built here.

I don't personally believe they'll be able to match the Japanese but i'm happy & interested to be proven wrong.

Well...they just put a probe on the moon...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Gee the media is a bit slow. GM have been building a version of the VE in China for a few years now (Buick Park Avenue based on the long wheel base VE platform).

With panels supplied by Elizabeth. What annoys me is that Statesman and Park Avenue should have been shoe ins for GM NA.
Thanks to not invented here, the shutters went up pretty quick to any Holden proposals. Zeta was made deliberately oversized
in engineering and fram to accommodate a suite of vehicles envisioned by GMNA which they then cancelled out of one by one...

Holden are victims of a wider problem with a completely dysfunctional parent company that went broke
and raided Holden's program funding to save itself, causing VE to be late at every milestone.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

I didn't think Great wall or chery would sell well, but there was enough stupid australians to prove me wrong.
Driving enthusiasts may not like it, but seems most blokes do what their wives say and buy a slug-box instead of something with a soul.

I recall one of our customers saying they started to switch to Great Walls - then one was in a crash and looking at the damage from the T-bone, they decided to go back to Hiluxes in the interests of OH&S.

Anyway - any man who lets his wife decide what car he gets is merely a shell of a man that regularly mutters the mantra "Yes Dear"

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by jpd80

With panels supplied by Elizabeth. What annoys me is that Statesman and Park Avenue should have been shoe ins for GM NA.
Thanks to not invented here, the shutters went up pretty quick to any Holden proposals. Zeta was made deliberately oversized
in engineering and fram to accommodate a suite of vehicles envisioned by GMNA which they then cancelled out of one by one...

Holden are victims of a wider problem with a completely dysfunctional parent company that went broke
and raided Holden's program funding to save itself, causing VE to be late at every milestone.

And V6 engines made in Port Melbourne.

[Pepscobra]

And where does the Cruze fit into all of this?
By the sounds, the new China-dore is similar in size and format to the Cruze, which is already being built in Korea as well as Australia and can be continued to be imported easily enough.
Will Holden stop selling these now?

[JG33]

Holden..... as Aussie as Kung Fu, Fried Rice and Panda Bears

[csv8]

The last time we saw the Park Avenue stateside was in 2005, when the second-generation model departed Buick's U.S. lineup as a relic from the '90s. But just a couple years later the Park Avenue nameplate reappeared in the Chinese market to replace the Buick Royaum, an exceedingly long sedan based on an Australian-market Holden.

The Chinese-market Buick Park Avenue is still based on a Holden, in this case the full-size Caprice sedan that sits on GM's Zeta platform. And the Park Avenue is offered with all the goodies you'd expect to find in a luxury sedan, including a navigation system, Bluetooth, LCD screens for in-car infotainment, as well as creature comforts like massaging seats for all four passengers.

Power in the Park Avenue comes courtesy of GM's 3.6-liter V6, but it's the car's 204-inch length that is perhaps the most impressive statistic, placing it between the short-wheelbase and long-wheelbase versions of the 2014 Mercedes-Benz S-class.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...#ixzz2nY0PPG13
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by stevz

Bingo...

Great Wall and Chery are a perfect indication of the calibre of Chinese auto manufacturing. We don't want or need rubbish like that here.
They have also proven time and time again that they have very poor ethics, with zero regard for any sort of oh&s etc and are prepared to take all sorts of short cuts just to save a dollar, even if it means putting people's lives at risk.
The asbestos in the Great Wall cars and the use of poisonous materials such as lead in children's toys are just a couple of examples that spring to mind.

In their defence GW and Chery are new at building cars for the western world, they either copied technology, bought in it in or simply stole it for their cars.
GW and Chery arent crap cars just because they are made in China!
ALL brands manufacture in China, not just so they can export to us mere aussies but because the domestic market in china is so VAST-China is where significant growth is about to happen, they can make some serious coin.
China has stepped up in recent years on OHS and environmental standards (albeit they have a long way to go) my company imports goods from there, our factories now have vapour recovery systems for solvents/paint processes and an increasing standard of living which means ever higher wages (sound familiar?) the next frontier for low cost manufacturing will be India over the coming decades.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

The GM/Ford hate is ridiculous. Everyone is acting like this American based global companies should have put Australia first, catered to us and looked after us first and foremost. That would have just been stupid. We're a tiny populous in the middle of nowhere that contributed less than a quarter of a percent of the worlds car manufacturing. Rightfully so GM and Ford looked after their biggest selling markets first, taking care of America first and foremost. Australia isn't the center of the universe, all we do is dig up gold and send iron ore to China.

No one is hating on ford. They have and will exit Australian manufacturing with pride and passion still in tact among many Australians.
Holden has lied to its workers, the government and resorted to blackmail of our government at disgusting levels. Among other things, Holden has shown many similiar techniques that ended up with the parent company in MASSIVE debt needing HUGE bailouts. Personally I have zero respect for Holden or GM or even there products over the years. (Hsvs aside)
China building new commadores will finish them in aus I'd imagine....

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

If they have improved so much I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it.

The quality of Aussie built Falcons and Commodores is at Rolls Royce levels compared to the third world rubbish that China dishes out.

They went from cars like this:

To cars like this in a matter of years:

[stevz]

So they built a VW which was designed and engineered in Germany in a VW commissioned plant in China?
How many cars have the Chinese actually designed, engineered on their own and built in their own plants? None, because they couldn't do it to save themselves.

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Well...they just put a probe on the moon...

Which is all well & good, they've got the tech.

But this is about building passenger vehicles and doing so profitably, which is why China has come into play....

...Unless they plan to build them on the moon I can't see how it relates....

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by stevz

So they built a VW which was designed and engineered in Germany in a VW commissioned plant in China?
How many cars have the Chinese actually designed, engineered on their own and built in their own plants? None, because they couldn't do it to save themselves.

They've designed from scratch and built more cars in the last couple of years than Australia has. Some of them are even rebadged in Europe as Alfa'(?) or a similar brand, cant remember exactly what they're rebadged as.

We have what 4 cars built here, China were building 4 different Chinese designed cars a couple of years ago, that number would have grown by now with how quickly everything about the country is growing. They're the future of many things and have a strong economy but dont price themselves out of the market.