Are Fpv/Tickfords Overated

[Falcon Coupe]

It seems you have it worked out Micky, any more questions follow this link, go to the top of the page and click on "New Thread" button to ask for help :
http://www.fordforums.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=51

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[merlin]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Just wondering if people think that FPV's and Tickfords are overrated....when compared to old school GT's etc.!!!

Bit confused about this part - are you saying that a majority of people think modern FPV's are the ducks guts and that they think that old school GT's are now poor in comparison, hence the use of the term "overrated"?? (just trying to clarify here).

But to me for something to be overrated it has to be extremley popular and constantly flouted as the best by the media - cant really say this is the case for the GT's (dosnt make it a bad car), you might say the F6 could be construed by some as overrated (much like say a M3 could be too).

Originally Posted by CATFORD

and also value for money in relation to other cars in the ford stable eg. XR8/6T etc!!!

I understand this bit and to me no they are not overrated when it comes to price. For the extra performance, luxury and prestige whilst still maintaining a 3 year factory waranty I think they are excellent value over the Ford product.

As an outright performance vehicle there is better value for money out there (I'm thinking EVO or STI) but what else for $60K has the same performance, luxury, and capacity to carry 5 in comfort at high speed? Nothing really.

[AUTE50BILL]

Didn't buy mine for resale or investment just want to have the comfort and with some go. Owned a Series 2 TE50 prior to that for the same reason.

Like most just want to enjoy the ride.

Niether in my opinion are or were overrated.

[TS50]

i sometimes think, "why am i spending the extra money on the TS50 and the Tornado"
Then i drive a XR8 or a XR6, or even a fairmont, and then drive either the T3 or the F6 and then i no longer wonder.
They are just so different to drive, and once you have been spoilt by them, its easy to justify the reason to buy them

[TS50]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Im lucky enough to own a BFGT and an XYGTHO.
The BFGT gets looks the HO turns heads.
Impossible to compare the two. Its a bit like trying to compare cricket or football teams from different era's. Which one is best? Both are great cars, excellent value and true Grand Tourers.
FPV have done a great job with the current GT, its worth every cent.
If you have a chance to own any model GT then go for it, not for the money you might make but for the pleasure of owning the best car Ford Australia has to offer. Regardless of when it was built.

Nothing personal, but i really do hate you
:

[paddy351]

for old school falcons with mods i see as a good thing as a rep you pay $15000 to $30000 but for a gt or ho $150000 to $300000 a bit of a price gap but for late models buy the fpv for the name and the resale over a tricked std ford.

[GlennBA]

They look better, go marginally better, have better brakes and interior.. they're worth it if you look at it that way but the XR6T and XR8 are the no frills performance package if you look at in that aspect. The tickfords are slightly different, mainly referring to a T3 here as you coulnd't get the stroker in anything else.
I think the GT, F6 typhoon and tornado, and the pursuit are worth it. The GT-P and force 6/8 however are a plain ripoff.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Compare apples with apples, until Ford release a new GT that is the fastest production sedan in the world ! the new models will only dream of having the same stigma and resale that's associated with the XY HO.

Bit hard when the top speed is limited.


Anyway, these cars IMO arnt overrated. Just the handling, extra little pieces that make them look fantastic. People always complain about the power (well from the V8's) but it's different now, you cant do to the current crop of V8's that they could back than, safety laws, emission laws, government, groups of people that will complain. I want a BF GT in a few years and I would be happy with one as it'll will be quick and handle well. Dont care if people admire me or not I buy cars for me and not for them. So not overrated.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by GlennAUII

I think the GT, F6 typhoon and tornado, and the pursuit are worth it. The GT-P and force 6/8 however are a plain ripoff.

You forgot the Super Pursuit.

And how do you figure the GT-P is a rip off? It's an optioned up GT, with a different badge, plus a few things you CAN'T option. Yeah the drive line is the same.

[RS027]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

care to explain that?

remember, not untill the BA's, was there a power difference between a standard V8 falcon and an XR8,

You might wanna check that mate. Try the EL XR8, 185kw version. Known to most as the EL2 XR8. Also AU owners with S1 185kw, S2 200kw &2 20kw and S3 220kw owners might also not agree that they had stock Ford V8 power...

[Phoon Hoon]

Are FPVs overrated? You've obviously never driven a Phoon...!

[BAxtER]

no way overated!!
i am 19 and own a BA XT
and i have added things here and there and it does all add up.

for instance:
scuff plates $25
leather wrap steering wheel (from SY territory brand new) $175 got it off ebay (usually around $800)
18 inch BA XR8 mkII wheels genuine $700 for set of 5 (got them from a mate so paid cheaper usually $3200 for the set of 4

then things i havent put in yet but would still cost a few bucks

leather shift $270
spoiler $503
SAT NAV 3000g or near abouts
etc etc
the list goes on, so why waste your time buying a car and going to add things to it later when u have the money to buy a car ready made with all the goodies, oh and the FPV bodykits so so so sexy!!! all the GT,F6 owners i am jealous lol,
maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but someday ill have one

GO FORD!!!

[BAxtER]

Originally Posted by RS027

You might wanna check that mate. Try the EL XR8, 185kw version. Known to most as the EL2 XR8. Also AU owners with S1 185kw, S2 200kw &2 20kw and S3 220kw owners might also not agree that they had stock Ford V8 power...

my dad has a series 2 AU fairmont Ghia V8 it has 175kws RSo27 is right mate

[Smoke Pursuit]

Hmm, the only underated car Fords built lately is the Typhoon / XR6 T, the FPV V8s are totally overated and aren't quick enough.

[fordAU]

Not quiet sure what is meant by overated, in comparison to a standard falcon the answer imo is no, sure you pay more but that is reflected in the re-sale value of the vehicle.

[GTPete]

It would be good to add some credability to some of the statements here.

For example after you express your opinion put down the model GT or FPV/ T series you own or have owned and how long you have had it.

Its a bit rough bagging a car out when you havent even sat it in it.

[Mutley]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

I don't think they are overated in terms of status, luxury, or build quality. I am concerned that the v8 GT/GT-P's are overated in terms of performance though. Idon't think they are really worthy of wearing the GT badge currently. They should be "head and shoulders" above the other Ford v8's performance if FPV wants to market them as the new generation of muscle cars and compare them to the GT's of the 60's and 70's. They just need more horsepower!


I think FPV have got it right with the Typhoon though. From what I have read and seen, it is definately a lot better performer over the XR6T and NA6.

Having said that, my next car will probably be a "slow and gutless" GT/GTP/Force 8. I just love the note that the BOSS offers, and realistically I don't think I need a quicker car that my current BA XR8. I haven't driven a Typhoon or Force 6 yet, but even though though they are quicker, v8's they are not!

An XB GT 2 Door did the 1/4 mile in 15.8 secs from memory. The ZC and ZD fairlane was quicker, bigger and older. If you rate on numbers only, the only standard GT's to run 14's on the 1/4 are the BA and BF GT's and they are much more comfy! It was only the HO's and RPO's which did better than 15.1 1/4 mile times from the factory.


Hmmm? wish I drove a gutless BF GT

[Kenaz]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

care to explain that?

Sure. Obviously it's just my opinion by the way.

I find that on these forums in particular they seem to get a huge wrap and I can't work out why. They are basically a ED XR8 with EB GT running gear, right? For what they are, they are slow. They have povo pack interiors and barely any distinguishing features to set them apart from ordinary XR8s. I just feel that they don't deserve all the credit they seem to get.

[CATFORD]

Originally Posted by Phoon Hoon

Are FPVs overrated? You've obviously never driven a Phoon...!

True I havent driven one....I have had many FPV's including the almighty "Phoon" try and race me...cant say it was all that impressive...I just think they are dame expensive for what you get....thats all!!! I love Ford and as one eyed as everyone normally is I think Holden/HSV have got all the performance that we really want....and they maybe want our build quality....I just wish Ford took a leaf out of Holden/HSV book inrelation to performance!!!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by GTPete

It would be good to add some credability to some of the statements here.

For example after you express your opinion put down the model GT or FPV/ T series you own or have owned and how long you have had it.

Its a bit rough bagging a car out when you havent even sat it in it.

Well going by what the thread question asks...... I would buy a F6, GT-P, TS50 tommorrow over any of there standard varients. Nope, never driven them, never sat in them......except at the Ford dealer dreaming about which colour to almost buy......And beleive they are well worth it in my eyes. There is enough difference between them and 'the others' to warrant the extra $$$.

Havnt driven an XY HO either but these, as said before whether I have driven them (havnt....bummer) or not somehow know they dont handle as good as a GT-P, but I do know they are more collectable and would be a hoot to drive! :yeees:



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[MITCHAY]

Performance arms of any company claim to have much more above the generic car it is based on. It is up to the individual to decide whether it is worth the extra money.

I would go for the best I could afford personally.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

True I havent driven one....I have had many FPV's including the almighty "Phoon" try and race me...cant say it was all that impressive...I just think they are dame expensive for what you get....thats all!!! I love Ford and as one eyed as everyone normally is I think Holden/HSV have got all the performance that we really want....and they maybe want our build quality....I just wish Ford took a leaf out of Holden/HSV book inrelation to performance!!!

Disagree, they arent expensive for what they are but the V8s certainly dont live up to the image of the earlier Fords, the F6 on the other hand is one of the best Performance cars to ever see the road for the price, its pretty close to a M5 for a fraction of the cost!

[CATFORD]

True....I stand corrected!!!
cheers :

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Disagree, they arent expensive for what they are but the V8s certainly dont live up to the image of the earlier Fords, the F6 on the other hand is one of the best Performance cars to ever see the road for the price, its pretty close to a M5 for a fraction of the cost!

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Kenaz

Sure. Obviously it's just my opinion by the way.

I find that on these forums in particular they seem to get a huge wrap and I can't work out why. They are basically a ED XR8 with EB GT running gear, right? For what they are, they are slow. They have povo pack interiors and barely any distinguishing features to set them apart from ordinary XR8s. I just feel that they don't deserve all the credit they seem to get.

Sprints were exactly that, poverty pack performance, the closest thing Australia has ever had to a true muscle car since the mid 70's

They are understated, allways were, and allways will be, they were built with performance in mind, and when they were built, for a fullsize sedan built in Australia, they were pretty quick. They might not be in the same kinda league these days, but in a time when the biggest guns on the showroom floor were 200kw and 215 kw for Ford and Holden respectively, not the 300+ we're expecting now

July 1994 saw Wheels magazine and Holdens future star Mark Skaife put the Sprint on the same level as Holdens flagship 215KW GTS, claiming that

SKAIFE: "The biggest problem with the Falcon is that it lacks outright grip. Once you push to the limit it stays therel if you get to understeer it pushes like a dog and if you get to oversteer it will stay sideways for a week. It really is battling for grip - maybe the tyre isn't doing the car justice"

If the GTS 215i could be thought of as a four door Corvette, the the Sprint would be a four door Mustang.

Without the extroverted plastic bits, the XR8 Sprint lacks some of the street profile of the HSV product, but given the fact its 23 per cent cheaper and displayed performance at Eastern Creek within 5 percent of the Holden, the Ford is great value.
On the admittedly smooth raceway surface, the XR8 Sprint worked well (bettering the 215i on the fast curve we monitored for data collection) but it could benefit from grippier, perhaps bigger, tyres.

now how about that..... the top of the line holden getting being brought back down to earth by a cheaper, plainer looking, lower powered, heavier car that only really needed some better rubber to make the whole car a better package......

still think they're overrated? or do you think a phase 3 is overrated just cos a XR6T can give it a hiding?

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

do you think a phase 3 is overrated just cos a XR6T can give it a hiding?

It is about being part of the legend.

Anybody who believes that a Phase III is overrated because a modern piece of machinery can outrun it is a spaz.
Not an everyday car.

Comes down to the individual.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Sprints were exactly that, poverty pack performance, the closest thing Australia has ever had to a true muscle car since the mid 70's

If your definition of a muscle car is poverty pack performance then the GTHO Phase III is NOT a muscle car. It was based on a FAIRMONT not a Falcon. In 1970/71 the Fairmont was the top of the line luxury model. GTHOs were high powered luxo-barges and the closest thing we have today really is a Force 8 or maybe GT-P.

Everyone has their personal view and it never pays to let any facts get in the way of a good story.

[Interceptor]

lol i figured i'd upset too many people if i said a GTHO wasnt a muscle car

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

If your definition of a muscle car is poverty pack performance then the GTHO Phase III is NOT a muscle car. It was based on a FAIRMONT not a Falcon. In 1970/71 the Fairmont was the top of the line luxury model. GTHOs were high powered luxo-barges and the closest thing we have today really is a Force 8 or maybe GT-P.

Everyone has their personal view and it never pays to let any facts get in the way of a good story.

Sorry to be picky... but.. technically speaking apart from the fairmont door trims, rear door lights and seat covers the GT/GTHO was more a bare bones optionless Falcon 500... You could option up all the luxury stuff like auto trans, radio, aircon, power steer and elec windows on the GT, but you couldnt order auto, aircon, power steer or elec windows on a HO.
In todays terms its too hard to draw comparrisons between the old and the new because the model offering and option mix has changed so much over the years, however a Force 8 or GT- P was probably similar to an auto XYGT with delete stripes, delete bonnet blackouts, delete hood pins, but ordered with super fringe radio, aircon, power windows and power steer, in essence a "4 barrel fairmont with sports suspension".
Ive allways thought the BA/F GT should have been higher in performance spec and lower in luxo spec than the GT-P to make a stronger distinction between them.. but i guess the current range is more reflective of current day consumer demand.

[Dean C]

NO WAY, they are worth every extra dollar. I had a BA XR6T previously to the BF GT and you cant compare. Maybe the turbo was as quick and nibble as the GT if not better but its not all about speed. Just everything about the car makes it a proud moment when you start that silver button on the dash and you hear the Boss 290 rumble away. But even just the fact its a bit of a buzz seeing people get excited about seeing a GT, sometimes they get more excited than me. Theres nothing quite like seeing a young boy walk pass your car while at the lights and giving you the thumbs up approving your hot looking car.
The only thing lacking in the BFGT was that you still got the standard steering wheel thats in the XR6's and 8's, not knocking the wheel but it would of been nice just to have something differant. I did opt for the FPV wheel and it just finishes off the whole package.

[HSE2]

I don’t think one need to have driven or owned something to be able to have an opinion about it. For starters 99.9% of forums would close up shop over night. It does however make stating an opinion more difficult if the author doesn't have a wide spread of information from which to draw.

Question like this are about context. Are Tickfords or FPVs overrated? The obvious question needs to be in comparison to what?

The next obvious observation in automotive terms that any comparison with products not of the same generation is a complete waste of oxygen. Can't be done and a waste of space and time doing so.

Are FPVs overrated compared with what FPV say their product is or should be? The short answer is yes by most definitions. The engineering content of Tickford cars were about where Ticky said they should be. Since moving to FPV that line is somewhat clouded. Compared with what FPV say their product should be the product has come up short simply because it doesn't meet FPV lofty profits. It’s a point FPV haven't been called on but I suspect a similar claim to that of HSV 6 months ago will be at the forefront of Orion FPV launch.

Are FPVs overrated in terms of the competition? No. Its hard to make a case for this question because most standards of reviews today list the F6 in very high esteem, which after a disastrous start, the product has fulfilled its potential. It gets a big tick.

The GT range is the opposite in that after a reasonable start the deficiencies haven't been addressed. The product remains with the same short comings that it was launched with leading to the inevitable conclusion that one or more people at FPV are asleep at the wheel, hence the reasoning behind lack of engineering development of the GT. Again even with this point it can't be overrated because the acknowledgement is pretty wide spread. It’s left FPV with a pretty large portion of the market untapped. Repeat custom and buyers of later AUs. Window dressing only goes so far. A large portion of ratings is credibility in the wider community. It’s unfortunate the weigh of ownership doesn’t carry the same strength. A little something to do with bias.

Are FPVs over rated it terms of the lower siblings?

Huge issue when he F6 was launched and really only lives on the strength of the after market. The vast majority don't want to be reworking brand new cars into something faster. If overrated is purely a monetary guide then to extract the performance of higher models for less will nearly always fall in favour of the lower starting point.

Badge engineering is on its way out. The community at large are increasing looking for justification in ways that avoid the growing wrath of the traffic Taliban. What is my money buying me? How does that improve on lower products in ways I can appreciate every day? HSV have gone to the trouble of claiming points of difference between their product and that of the donor. Why? because increasing market research is showing that it is something that is becoming important amongst their constituents.

Overall it’s a question that has no definite answer. All consumers rate and justify their purchases on individual opinions and values that simply can't be quantified into a simple yes or no. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so to be value and worth.