Ford Falcon VS Ford Tuarus

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by jamesson1980

No worries man, I see where you're going there, I'm not sure exactly what I was saying now but it was negative, I'l pay that...

Ok, I haven't read every piece of info on the potential switch to Taurus but the parts I've read in these forums seem to point to FWD.

FWD's are fine, and probably the right direction for many new cars to head in future but may alienate a nation of Falcon fans. I just thought if we must embrace a global platform, lets take it but craft it to suit our own needs and what ford owners have come to love for half a century. The Taurus looks enough like a Falcon, but Ford Aust need to make it BE a Falcon, and I think RWD and 6cyl is a large part of that.

I'd hate to run over to Holden, I hope I never have to, but when it's time to upgrade and I want a strong Aussie RWD sedan for the family and towing etc, the Commo may present the only option in future, which would be one sad sad day

Cheers Buddy.

There's gotta be a way to make everything work, CEO mulally is a smart and practical man who has said to FoA if One Ford doesn't work for you don't do it. I think FoA are getting a lot of internal help at the moment, probably just as much as they are giving to other projects. I remain hopeful that Territory and EcoLPG will fire and take some immediate pressure of Falcon sales and give FoA a great launch pad for Ecoboost next year, encourage them to do even more interesting versions, diesel Falcon sedan and Ute please...

we get down on falcon sales but hopefully FoA is efficient enough to squeak through without too much red, at least they don't have two shifts to feed, Holden has to sell in volume or they are cactus. The business plans are obviously completely different for the two of them so let's hope Ford can lift for the rest of the year.

[boris]

It's been said before, so what are the chances of the Tuarus becoming the bread and butter car and Falcon being niche performance model aka Mustang. Also could Australia build Mustangs for RHD markets along with Falcon, assuming that come 2015 they shared the same platform.
I know that as a daily driver I love my Falcon, however I really only use it's full potential on the weekends. We are a two car family so if one was a Tuarus AWD for driving the family round in fine, the other could be the weekend car, Falcon. These two/three cars could co-exist well if ford were able to export Falcon to RHD markets.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by boris

It's been said before, so what are the chances of the Tuarus becoming the bread and butter car and Falcon being niche performance model aka Mustang. Also could Australia build Mustangs for RHD markets along with Falcon, assuming that come 2015 they shared the same platform.
I know that as a daily driver I love my Falcon, however I really only use it's full potential on the weekends. We are a two car family so if one was a Tuarus AWD for driving the family round in fine, the other could be the weekend car, Falcon. These two/three cars could co-exsist well if ford were able to export Falcon to RHD markets.

Gotcha,

large midsize/large will either be Falcon or Fusion Mondeo with maybe Taurus as a quasi Fairlane on top.
Taurus has huge road presence because it's basically an Explorer with a sedan body...does that make sense.

[Road_Warrior]

Next gen Toreass won't be the same behemoth it is now. Either it will shrink to the next gen Fusion/Mondeo platform or those vehicles will increase in size to meet the Taurus.

Personally I'm seeing a FWD based D-sized car taking over the reins from Falcon XT, G6 and G6E (the volume sellers) and a derivative of the next gen Mustang coming here as a consolation prize for the performance and high-end luxury car buyers.

But I'm willing to be surprised that Ford chooses a flexible, modular RWD platform to do the job of all, that can be built and sold around the world in different formats.

[jamesson1980]

Originally Posted by boris

It's been said before, so what are the chances of the Tuarus becoming the bread and butter car and Falcon being niche performance model aka Mustang.

I don't quite get it.. they wanna promote this ONE FORD program to streamline Ford's global range yet, we may end up with 2 or 3 large size platforms when we currently have 1. Currently the FG platform caters for everything from a taxi to a V8 Supercar and cost from 25,000 to 80,000 depending on what's thrown inside it.. can't get much more versatile than that ay??

So why 'simplify' it with Taurus this and Mustang that and Mondeo etc.. Choose the American platform if we must, choose the best one to build range of cars upon, call it Falcon and use our own factories to create different plastics, panels, different motors, different interiors and different specs to make the falcon range as great as it currently is.

I like the idea that my FG XR6 is the same shell as the top end GT or even V8 supercar.. it's like my own little modest piece of the Ford family. I'd hate to think this would no longer be a possibility if Falcon uses Mustang platform and is sold as the expensive hi-spec FPV style car

[FalconXV]

Even the base F150 V6 only makes 377Nm and peaks at 4000rpm.
Dearborns engines< ours.
I know our six relies on govt. funding, but I can't see it being a smooth transition to the US engine..
Taurus lesson in the 90s should still ring true ( although that one was fugly). Falcon survived because its more versatile and better, obviously Dearborn saw a business case for Falcon back then.
But even nowadays Holden still has RWD ute, wagon, LWB and still manages to top the market , as Ford did in 1995, they are showing there are still markets for these types of car, I hope BA wasn't the last serious attempt at beating Commodore, let alone reviving the Falcon...
Or I dunno, maybe a fresh new type of car would spark volume, like the original 1960 Falcon was...
If Taurus and Falcon are being consolidated, isn't the Mondeo more or less the same size these days? As in wouldn't the platform extend to all 3?
Could go well either way, they seem to be pooling resources and doing well, but if the new Focus is any indication, making a world car dilutes the brand somewhat.
In any case what does Dearborn stand to lose/ gain from us having our own product line?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Not now.... later. When they start sharing more. (This is gonna make Barraxr8 rage like a mofo.)

The current manual is shared now between Falcon and GT500, they are both TR6060's, maybe slightly different in terms of input spline count etc, but essentially the same gearbox. So no point switching to a weaker version.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jamesson1980

No worries man, I see where you're going there, I'm not sure exactly what I was saying now but it was negative, I'l pay that...

Ok, I haven't read every piece of info on the potential switch to Taurus but the parts I've read in these forums seem to point to FWD.

FWD's are fine, and probably the right direction for many new cars to head in future but may alienate a nation of Falcon fans. I just thought if we must embrace a global platform, lets take it but craft it to suit our own needs and what ford owners have come to love for half a century. The Taurus looks enough like a Falcon, but Ford Aust need to make it BE a Falcon, and I think RWD and 6cyl is a large part of that.

I'd hate to run over to Holden, I hope I never have to, but when it's time to upgrade and I want a strong Aussie RWD sedan for the family and towing etc, the Commo may present the only option in future, which would be one sad sad day

No need to apologise. John gets a pit ****y when fans threaten to leave the Ford ship if Falcon goes over to the dark side. But when it all comes down to it... we aussie blokes want to support a local product, and we want a big sporty RWD saloon. If Ford walks away from that... what are gonna do, buy the next FWD Falcon and spend money re-engineering it.

Don't apologise for being honest mate.

Originally Posted by SteveJH

A longditudinal RWD/AWD Aka. Audi & Nissan would be awesome, especially with Miami up the front.

A transverse FWD/AWD on the other hand would be boring and probably limited to I4 and v6. :(

We have a longditudinal RWD/AWD platform. A bloody good one. And if the Yanks need an AWD for snow. We have them covered. Mustang... we have them covered. A sporty 4 door Lincoln....4WD option... no worries. We have them covered.

It boils down to if Ford NA want to give proper support to this great product. Falcon/Territory would bring greater diversity to Ford... than D3/4 could ever.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

No need to apologise. John gets a pit ****y when fans threaten to leave the Ford ship if Falcon goes over to the dark side. But when it all comes down to it... we aussie blokes want to support a local product, and we want a big sporty RWD saloon. If Ford walks away from that... what are gonna do, buy the next FWD Falcon and spend money re-engineering it.

Don't apologise for being honest mate.

Thanks Buntz, couldn't have said it better myself.....
(I promise to play nice and be positive..)

We still have a lot of years left with E8 Falcon and this setback in Jan/Feb has ruffled a lot of feathers
will soon be forgotten with TZ Territory launch and long awaited diesel engine.

EcoLPI should really liven up production and fleet sales again too rolling on from territory.

Not sure about XR8, there was supposed to be one until FPV wanted a GS at the last minute,
I can see a third V8 being added as XR8 with S/C engine from GS while FPVs power up.
^^^ No ECU change needed and can be done at any time that suits Ford/FPV - September????

[Buntz]

You promise to be positive.... this I have to see.

Speculation is difficult because it moves at light speed compared to the car industry.

But google Ford platforms. Go to the wikipedia entry... and start scrolling. E8 is a baby compared to many of which are still in use. It came out in 2008. Obviously with the intention of being more involved in 'One Ford' somehow, when Mullaly came on board in 2006.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

You promise to be positive.... this I have to see.

Speculation is difficult because it moves at light speed compared to the car industry.

But google Ford platforms. Go to the wikipedia entry... and start scrolling. E8 is a baby compared to many of which are still in use. It came out in 2008. Obviously with the intention of being more involved in 'One Ford' somehow, when Mullaly came on board in 2006.

Well current Taurus is a hulk of a car with huge presence/weight mostly because of it's SUV platform heritage and shared parts. The day Ford put a sedan floorpan under it and lighten it up is that day people will really start taking notice.

I suspect Explorer paid for most of the upgrades and Police Interceptor variants, they are now free to stay with the Explorer SUV side now and Taurus can move onto a sedan platform.

Got an appointment will be back for the evening show, I'm here all week.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well current Taurus is a hulk of a car with huge presence/weight mostly because of it's SUV platform heritage and shared parts. The day Ford put a sedan floorpan under it and lighten it up is that day people will really start taking notice.

I suspect Explorer paid for most of the upgrades and Police Interceptor variants, they are now free to stay with the Explorer SUV side now and Taurus can move onto a sedan platform.

Got an appointment will be back for the evening show, I'm here all week.

The Sedan floor plan will require looking at it's underpinnings too... to see if they really need to be there as they aren't supporting a hulking mass anymore. So they could be looking at a complete replacement of the whole platform.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

In any case what does Dearborn stand to lose/ gain from us having our own product line?

Competitiveness in the global market. There has to be consolidation to compete with other competitors who already offer fewer products, built with high quality. These days, you can't be like GM of the 90s, and have a different lineup in every market with 14 brands worldwide, and still be competitive.

[XR Martin]

Taurus has only been shared with the Explorer since the current model.
Previous Explorers had a separate chassis.

[jpd80]

I think everyone here would agree, the priority should be what is right for our market,
which vehicle brings the correct mixture of attributes necessary for sales maximisation
combined with economies of scale where ever possible.

One Ford global products only work if our market has sufficient overlap of
features and functions expected by FoA's existing and potential customers.

If that does not happen, FoA then has justification to explore a range of
options from simple variations to complete top hat change to own design.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Taurus has only been shared with the Explorer since the current model.
Previous Explorers had a separate chassis.

A sloppy generalisation on my part, used for people not aware of D3 history with earlier
Fivehundred and Freestyle, both of those cars shared floor pans and under pinnings
All D3s are descendant from the Volvo XC90 variant of the P2 platform that was modified by Ford.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A sloppy generalisation on my part, used for people not aware of D3 history with earlier
Fivehundred and Freestyle, both of those cars shared floor pans and under pinnings
All D3s are descendant from the Volvo XC90 variant of the P2 platform that was modified by Ford.

Both of which were absolute failures.

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think everyone here would agree, the priority should be what is right for our market,
which vehicle brings the correct mixture of attributes necessary for sales maximisation
combined with economies of scale where ever possible.

One Ford global products only work if our market has sufficient overlap of
features and functions expected by FoA's existing and potential customers.

If that does not happen, FoA then has justification to explore a range of
options from simple variations to complete top hat change to own design.

Then I think Falcon and Territory are in with a chance. Especially now with Inifiniti looking to undercut more premium brands here in Australia... with sporty coupe's, sedan's, and an SUV.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Both of which were absolute failures.

Freestyle was originally controlled by the truck division who also had the BOF Explorer,
I won't elaborate only to say that Freestyle was never really stood a chance...
Fivehundred sold pretty well considering Atlanta Taurus and Crown Victoria were in full cry...

Then I think Falcon and Territory are in with a chance. Especially now with Inifiniti looking to undercut more premium brands here in Australia... with sporty coupe's, sedan's, and an SUV.

There is always hope, especially with good basic design, FoA are being asked to do a lot more work for other divisions, their practicality and frugality is known throughout the company...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Freestyle was originally controlled by the truck division who also had the BOF Explorer,
I won't elaborate only to say that Freestyle was never really stood a chance...
Fivehundred sold pretty well considering Atlanta Taurus and Crown Victoria were in full cry...

Freestyle was a stupid vehicle. It competed directly with Flex... and is exactly what 'One Ford' set out to destroy. Repetition of vehicles. The 500 was doomed from the get go: "engineered to have the feel of an SUV or minivan while being in a sedan." They took what they learnt from this car... and made today's Taurus. The 500 was already running off the D3 platform... and Taurus became the new and... improved? car.

Originally Posted by jpd80

There is always hope, especially with good basic design, FoA are being asked to do a lot more work for other divisions, their practicality and frugality is known throughout the company...

That's because they've been working off one Ford fundamentals for years. Using mostly Ford products, scrimping and scrounging what they can get.... while the yanks blew out it all one crap, and one off's.

end rant.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Freestyle was a stupid vehicle. It competed directly with Flex... and is exactly what 'One Ford' set out to destroy. Repetition of vehicles. The 500 was doomed from the get go: "engineered to have the feel of an SUV or minivan while being in a sedan." They took what they learnt from this car... and made today's Taurus. The 500 was already running off the D3 platform... and Taurus became the new and... improved? car.

That's because they've been working off one Ford fundamentals for years. Using mostly Ford products, scrimping and scrounging what they can get.... while the yanks blew out it all one crap, and one off's.

end rant.

This is gonna be hard...... to stay positive...

Freestyle was begun in 2005 and became Taurus X (Stationwagon) until 2009
That was a completely different vehicle to Flex which began in 2008.

I can understand someone being confused about FNA and all their D3
variants, seems they were desperate to make the platform work and
pay, the cost of that was two names Taurus and Explorer....

1) they couldn't use Taurus name because of closure of Atlanta and DN101 Taurus,
had they immediately called fivehunderd the new Taurus, the Unions would have
jumped all over it and claimed Ford relocated the plant under a different name.


2) It was inevitable that Ford would do an Explorer replacement on D3,
they just couldn't bring themselves to do it for such a long time.

[jpd80]

Ford US really needed One Ford to make it survive and become profitable,
one could argue that the basics employed by Ford Austraila are way
beyond the principles of One Ford, they've been tendering parts
and outsourcing for the best possible prices for years.

Probably why the Falcon has survived so long with impressive updates,
no other division I know of can squeeze bang for bucks as far as FoA.

FG was put under the microscope as the most analyzed vehicle in the Ford empire and
no doubt, the rest of Ford learned a bit from FoA's development and supplier processes.
If any of that was not up to scratch, you can bet the car would have been Vetoed by head office.
They like it but can't find a place for it.

[jpd80]

Sorry to keep bumping this thread but some interesting news from the US.

Seems that while new Explorer is popular with buyers, the motoring press
are really disturbed by the amount of TORQUE STEER that is being witnesses.

I don't know why this is becoming an issue but it could be due to increased
power levels coupled with the lower gears in the 6-speed autos enhancing
low and mid range pull through the steering.

With torque steer, the car drags to the left under acceleration, not so bad in
Australia but lethal in left hand drive countries where it means oncoming traffic.

Maybe it's prudent for Ford keep Falcon and Territory as a contingency plan
if the FWD/AWD Taurus/Explorer team goes pear shaped in its own market......

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Seems that while new Explorer is popular with buyers, the motoring press
are really disturbed by the amount of TORQUE STEER that is being witnesses.

I don't know why this is becoming an issue but it could be due to increased
power levels coupled with the lower gears in the 6-speed autos enhancing
low and mid range pull through the steering.

With torque steer, the car drags to the left under acceleration, not so bad in
Australia but lethal in left hand drive countries where it means oncoming traffic.

Maybe it's prudent for Ford keep Falcon and Territory as a contingency plan
if the FWD/AWD Taurus/Explorer team goes pear shaped in its own market......

If you're talking about the article from MotorTrend, the Explorer in question is a pre-production unit.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by jpd80

1) they couldn't use Taurus name because of closure of Atlanta and DN101 Taurus,
had they immediately called fivehunderd the new Taurus, the Unions would have
jumped all over it and claimed Ford relocated the plant under a different name.

I think that's just a marketing decision. Mullaly has the balls to make better cars, using iconic names. Everyone else would just spin out the same crap, with a different name. Five Hundred was the same crap with a different name. The new Taurus....well, it's a whole other car altogether really, with a familiar name.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I think that's just a marketing decision. Mullaly has the balls to make better cars, using iconic names. Everyone else would just spin out the same crap, with a different name. Five Hundred was the same crap with a different name. The new Taurus....well, it's a whole other car altogether really, with a familiar name.

Actually you have that wrong. Five Hundred was the new car. Taurus was the same crap... with a different name. Taurus was spawned from the Five Hundred.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sorry to keep bumping this thread but some interesting news from the US.

Seems that while new Explorer is popular with buyers, the motoring press
are really disturbed by the amount of TORQUE STEER that is being witnesses.

I don't know why this is becoming an issue but it could be due to increased
power levels coupled with the lower gears in the 6-speed autos enhancing
low and mid range pull through the steering.

With torque steer, the car drags to the left under acceleration, not so bad in
Australia but lethal in left hand drive countries where it means oncoming traffic.

Maybe it's prudent for Ford keep Falcon and Territory as a contingency plan
if the FWD/AWD Taurus/Explorer team goes pear shaped in its own market......

I'm not surprised really. The D3 platform isn't state of the art. It's no Focus RS... and even that torque steers.... even with the clever revo knuckle.

Plus those V6's are powerful... and a close ratio 6 speeders don't make things any better. But I don't understand why they sell explorer in FWD. Or why it's so low to the ground. There is a lot I don't get about the yank cars.

They so need Territory. They'd love it.

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by jamesson1980

I don't quite get it.. they wanna promote this ONE FORD program to streamline Ford's global range yet, we may end up with 2 or 3 large size platforms when we currently have 1.

No Ford currently has three large car platforms - Falcon, Taurus and Crown Vic. The former two also have SUV/crossovers based on them while the Panther platform is about to end.

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

We have a longitudinal RWD/AWD platform. A bloody good one. And if the Yanks need an AWD for snow. We have them covered.

We don't have an AWD sedan. There is a lot of the US in the middle ground where a FWD car has sufficient traction for light snow use, for want of a better term.

Originally Posted by jpd80

They like it but can't find a place for it.

My opinion is that Ford could have split the Ford and Mercury lines and had cheap US Fords and more expensive European Fords as Mercury's in the small & mid-size cars, mainstream fwd large Fords and niche Australian rwd large Mercury's. However that ship sailed 10 if not 15 years ago...

There is still a window of opportunity with Lincoln - hopefully!

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

We don't have an AWD sedan. There is a lot of the US in the middle ground where a FWD car has sufficient traction for light snow use, for want of a better term.

We have an AWD vehicle based off a sedan platform that could easily become a sedan or crossover thing for the US.

In my limited view anyway. I'm just basing it off things like the RTV and Territory.

[dimka100]

Hi,

If anyone here watches a show on TV called “Fringe” you would have probably noticed the careful marketing Ford is putting into the show, all the cars featured in there are the latest USA Ford models.

The marketing however is very subtitle and I like it its not trying to make the point that it’s a Ford yet there is enough in there to make you notice it, they also seem to choose the right cars for the right job, so it makes it all very believable

Thanks

[Buntz]

I don't know of any bias or lacking quality of Motortrend. But they did not like the new Explorer.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._explorer.html