Yet ANOTHER fatal crash invloving a young driver. - Page 3

cupic · 07-11-2006, 08:11 PM

The young needs to show off why the young need to be brave and show off why the young have too much peer pressure why.Im not trying to flame the young or the young at heart ,but think of the destruction that this causes.Straight piece of road someone died its all a waste.Educate only goes soo far.watching vids only goes so far.Raising the age to 21yrs of age dont think so limiting passengers??? curfews???fixes one leads to death somewhere else

Keepleft · 07-11-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeStRaFe

ah young p-plates in their commies.....
alot of run to sit at the lights... revving...
they do the same and them go tearing off... and i just putter away

NOPE - The driver has an L license, had BORROWED a friends car, the friend is a P plater and the P plates as you can see were not removed. The L plater had a passenger who died.

Speed limit was 60km/h, residential key road, side impact into pole.

AND the other crash in the same time period was a 61 year old as already stated in thread earlier.

The NSW Emma ALP government has a Minister picked up by HWP for speeding - 140km/h in a 100km/h zone, one for 124km/h on the F3's 110km/h zone, and two other offences.

The best the NSW Libs leader, sadly, could come up with is; 'when is the Permier going to say enough is enough - remove the Minister, RATHER than suggest that perhaps the speed limits are too effing slow. At this rate ALP-NSW will stay in power and deservedly so *in this topic*.

GXL078 · 07-11-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longreach

I agree that there is a problem with deaths on the roads don't get me wrong. Yet everyone time a P plater dies someone posts it on the forum. YES it was a nasty incident. But did anyone comment on the 2 blokes that died in the ute as the son rolled it and niether man was wearing seat belts.(This was WA, Northampton if i remmeber correct don't quote me on it though. The son was well above p plater age.

There seems to be a prejeduice towards p platers, i'm not saying that we are perfect drivers, because we ARE NOT. It is a concern but i think ripping on the poor kid who will have to live the rest of his life knowing he killed a mate is just going TOO far. Be it an avoidable accident or not, he would not have gone out earlyer that night, well lets see who i can kill tonight. THat would not of been his train of thought. was he being an idiot YES, could it have been avoided possibly, but not a certanity as get any car moving fast enough which is possible and it will come to problems when hittin a pole.

I am not going to pretend that i can offer a viable solution, and yes i think the power limitations are quite possibly a justified approach. Yet i think it is wrong how the minute a p plater dies you drag the kid through the mud, yet you don't say blue about the 45year old not wearing a seat belt.

Pat

Not prejudiced against P platers, only Commodores.

MITCHAY · 07-11-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

The NSW Emma ALP government has a Minister picked up by HWP for speeding - 140km/h in a 100km/h zone, one for 124km/h on the F3's 110km/h zone, and two other offences.

Yeah I saw this in the news. Like it matters to an MP anway, they will get taxpayer funded taxi rides to work no doubt.

Longreach · 07-11-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Not prejudiced against P platers, only Commodores.

Which is just as bad if not worse, there are sterotypes for a reason BUT it doesn't make them correct in every situation.

GCFordChic - In reply to your comment about seat belts, i think you may want to take another look at the roads. I believe you'll find that ALOT of the men that fit in that age catergory do NOT wear seat belts. I know this wasn't the whole point you were raising. But on the seat belt issue you'll find that alot more young people wear selt belts than older people.

fordOwner · 07-11-2006, 10:58 PM

Will you bloody P platers just realise that anyone can drive fast, spin their wheels and drag cars at the lights but it takes a true driver to control your car under given conditions. god Im getting so frustrated that every time i see a car wrapped around a power pole that it has a P plate on the windscreen.

OLDFORDNUT · 07-11-2006, 11:25 PM

you dont have to be going over 100kmh to split any commodore in half, my mates and i jokingly refer to commodores as 3 piece cars due to the fact lots split into 2 and the engine gets torn out,thus 3 major parts at scene of smash.
horrible but true.
as for posts about it being mostly commodores ,ive seen lots of Fords wrapped around tree's and posts also WRX's and Hyundi's and skylines,

repsol · 08-11-2006, 03:03 AM

I think all young kids going for drivers license should be given the following!
1.(go back to the old) learners permit know the road rules exam. (applicant to pay costs)
2.have a min of 5 drivers lessons. (applicant to pay costs)
3.pass a driven test to show they can at least operate a vehicle drive with confidence. (applicant to pay costs)
4.complete and pass a driver training course including skid pan training etc.
(applicant to pay costs)
5. attend a reality check course in what can happen if you drive like an idiot- including images of shattered lives and how it affects relatives and friends.
5. pass final drivers license test and given Ps for 12 months (applicant to pay costs) - no demerit points allowed in first 12 months any breaking of the road rules in period drivers license cancelled and must repeat all steps of license process.

my two cents worth

benoxr · 08-11-2006, 04:46 AM

Many times I have seen a P plater driving by the rules and the speed limit only to see an older male or female zip past us.
I also see many, many elderly drivers on the road that definitely need education on todays road rules and honestly, those drivers shouldn’t be driving at all.

The fact is that the age group that are on P plates, are over represented in the road death toll. That age group has the most deaths on the road. So we aren’t picking on the P platers.
Regardless of age, any driver I see behaving like a total d*ck on the road will get a nice little wave from me as I drive past him/her cuddling the next stobie pole/tree.
One thing for sure, I wont be stopping to see if he/she is ok. They are responsible for themselves. The poles and trees aren’t responsible, the car isn’t responsible. Just the idiot behind the wheel.
I recently seen this interview with a bike rider who was caught doing 200kmh. He was asked if he was concerned he could injure or kill himself or other people on the road. His simple answer was “No”. As far as he was concerned, he was a good rider and had full control of what he was doing. Plus he wasn’t afraid of dying. Maybe he was a good rider, but he cant control what others on the road will do. That attitude is ok in a controlled environment but the metro roads are hardly a controlled environment.
Education will have some good results, but only on those of us who are mature enough to learn from the education. And with those who have lost mates already.
I must admit, when I was 17, many of my mates including me, drove with alcohol in our system and most likely were over the limit. But I never personally knew 1 person who even had a minor accident let alone died. So what does that mean? Its not just because there are more cars on the road these days, because many of these road crashes occur with no other cars around.
What I hate hearing, is the family of the crash victims say ‘ I only hope others can learn from this so that my boy didn’t die in vain” Just great, because if your boy had learnt from all the previous deaths, he would be alive now and my boy wouldn’t have died in vain!
cheers

normxb · 08-11-2006, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I wonder if one of the reasons that we have such a youth/car problem in the availability of instant finance.

When I was a teenager getting a car loan was very difficult and getting a loan for mods or tyres etc was basicly impossible.

My first car was a HK holden sedan with a manual 161 engine and it did 85mph flat out. I dreamed of fitting a V8 or even the incredibly powerful 186 but could not afford it so my mods were to fit a hotdog and replace the hydralic lifters with solid inserts.

Yep , flappist , I agree there , my first car was an XK Falcon 144 "three on the tree" , lucky to get 60mph , heaps of body roll , next to no brakes ,etc , you really needed to be on the ball just to drive the thing ....

On another side (which I think is TOO late) is discipline , modern "rules" don't allow for "parenting" anymore . The rights of younger people are much more important ! ! . They are taught in school now that "Their rights are ....." and it has nothing to do with parents advice , completely the opposite in fact .

When we were young (yep, I know I'll get flamed) if you did something wrong , you got a clip across the ear ( I don't think we were any worse off for it ) or grounded for weeks , if the cop caught you down the street after 10 pm , he'd give you a "boot up the bum" & send you home . He can't do that anymore , you can call him names or whatever & he can't do much about it . (no respect)

I tell my son (14) " If you go to do anything , think about it , is it right or wrong" , if it's wrong , Don't Do It .

I think modern society ( read as Do-Gooders) have a lot to answer for .

Full Spectrum · 08-11-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiapan

geez! in the paper yesterday a worker was reading it in the smoko room, he read out that teenagers have died in a car crash, i said 'bet it was a commodore' sure enough it was a vx.

is it the stereotypical holden driver? dont see many fords killing teenagers do we? everytime a holden gets a yellow sticker the policeman has just saved a life. i think its more the type of people who drive these cars....idiots, glad they dont drive fords

there was a street racing death recenlty, a holden and an xf, they clipped and both rolled and landed next to eachother, the xf was much stronger in the rollover and the ocupants were fine, the vl or whatever killed a pretty young girl.

Thats stereotyping;). You think fords dont kill but when they do it's not played out with a joke and smile on here, It probably never sees the light of a car forum when it happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordowner

Will you bloody P platers just realise that anyone can drive fast, spin their wheels and drag cars at the lights but it takes a true driver to control your car under given conditions. god Im getting so frustrated that every time i see a car wrapped around a power pole that it has a P plate on the windscreen.

Actually it takes a true driver too not get into that type of situation in the first place, Once you need too start correcting the cars oversteer you have gone too far.
One of the hardest things when young driving is mates in the car, They bounce all over the place gun it gun it ****en! In your ear going off, Best thing too do but it's hard is too yell shut the **** up who pays for the speeding fine? Me my car don't like it walk!

drcook · 08-11-2006, 09:27 AM

i think discussion of the whole p-plate saga, in relation to this particular accident, is completely pointless.

They stole the car. no-one in the car had any appropriate licence. they might as well of been 10 years old.

Its like them stealing a boat from a marina then crashing it, and we all getting on here talking about whether boat licencing is too lenient.

my 2.3 cents

Ryan · 08-11-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Personally, I think all L platers should be IQ tested before being allowed to pass and get their P's to prove they have the cognitive skills to recognise various elements of danger on the road and make informed decisions. For too long, we have allowed people to get away with too much on the basis of rights being eroded but, look at the outcomes here.

The reason why I think some young people are unsuitable for the roads are numerous, and I'll try to outline some of the differences between say a P plater and a 45 year old below.

A P Plater takes unnecessary risks because they may/may not have:
* Little regard for consequences of actions
* Knows not their mortality
* Thinks is only hurting self
* Takes uneducated risks
* Has far too much unsubstantiated bravado
* Blase attitude towards other road users
* Inability to weigh up all factors before taking action
* Highly emotional.
* Brain still developing up till age 24
* Probably driving a cheaper car and has plans to hot it up.

In contrast, a 45 year old driver is less likely to endanger themself because:
* Probably has family
* Probably has people dependant on him/her
* Probably has financial responsibility
* Probably has had to deal with loss and is aware of what grief is about
* Emotionally stable (not raging hormones)
* Brain is fully developed
* Knows that pushing an object beyond its limits can result in tragedy
* Has had to make sacrifices in life and appreciates the asset
* Is aware of police and can't afford to lose licence.
* Is time poor and does not want to jeaqpordise everything
* Is less likely to modify car for power
* General awareness of life and its implications

These are some reasons why the motivation of driving is different between the two demographics, one does it out of necessity whilst the other does it out of fun but can take it too far. Granted, we have all probably done a stupid thing here or there, but cars these days are far more numerous and have much higher power outputs than 5, 10, 20 years ago. Also, as mentioned, people are able to easily get finance and as such extract more power from their cars. Furthermore, easier finance as well as the evolution of the internet has given people more access to cars and modification parts making it easier to get the go fast bits at a more affordable price. Also, police patrols are now scarce due to the cheaper revenue generating cameras.
Unfortunately, the culmination of many factors such as these has allowed youth fatalities to increase as driving demands are increased with a general decline in the education. Something needs to change.

All very vaild points and I agree 100%.

When I first got my Ps (18) I took alot of risks and now that I'm 20, I look back and regret doing some of the things I done.

I get the urge sometimes, but I stop and think of the consequences and don't do it.

I've got a couple of mates, who have/had lost their licences, for extented periods of time, due to reckless behaviour. One of them lost his licence for 4 years, for drink driving and he was on his red Ps and the other lost it for 3 months for speeding, who is also on his red Ps.

I don't want to end up like that, as I value my licence too much and enjoy having it.

Longreach · 08-11-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normxb

When we were young (yep, I know I'll get flamed) if you did something wrong , you got a clip across the ear ( I don't think we were any worse off for it ) or grounded for weeks , if the cop caught you down the street after 10 pm , he'd give you a "boot up the bum" & send you home . He can't do that anymore , you can call him names or whatever & he can't do much about it . (no respect)

I'll tell ya one thing, the cop's can do plenty about it and they do. Sure they can't simply arrest people or 'boot up the bum' for being out after 10pm. But you start swearing/abusing a cop and you'll find yourself flat on your *** or getin placed in a lovely little cruiser.
Sure they may not be able to do as much as they used to, but i think your underexaggeration the point quite alot there.

Pat

bencat · 08-11-2006, 10:41 AM

It's always been the commies dag nabbit ! Yea, back in the 30's and 40's the damn commies ruined it for the rest of us and their at it again, all them little red books and brown uniforms, no, wait, wrong commies... nothing to see here, move along...

Bill_R · 08-11-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordowner

Will you bloody P platers just realise that anyone can drive fast, spin their wheels and drag cars at the lights but it takes a true driver to control your car under given conditions. god Im getting so frustrated that every time i see a car wrapped around a power pole that it has a P plate on the windscreen.

totally agree. there is no skill in hooning it around, tailgating or "speeding" as it is put. Car control, judgement and common sense makes a skilled and "good" driver. You can drive below the limit and become more skilled as a driver by focusing on a smooth line through a corner, picking the right apex to use, picking the transition point to accelerate, drivng within the constraints of the road markers and speed limits, driving defensively ... than you can by planting your foot in a straight line or trying to slide the tail around a corner. The least skill is in spinning your wheels in the wet - that's a loss of control. You don't get any traction with them spinning.

Now, I'm picking on P's and I really dislike grouping like that. The simple fact is that I need to because it's mostly P platers I see doing those things.

bencat · 08-11-2006, 11:17 AM

Solution - Make em all learn to drive in Bongo vans... Then they can progress to toyota crown's, from there it's straight to a datto 1600 and lastly in to a ford xa wagon..

And if that dosen't learn 'em then maybe a more stringent driving course that includes actual hands on training, not some lame 100 hours sitting beside a career driving instuctor doing laps of bankstown mall.

A car is an indescriminate lethal weapon, any wally can buy one without even having a license, the mind boggles...

GXL078 · 08-11-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencat

Solution - Make em all learn to drive in Bongo vans... Then they can progress to toyota crown's, from there it's straight to a datto 1600 and lastly in to a ford xa wagon..

And if that dosen't learn 'em then maybe a more stringent driving course that includes actual hands on training, not some lame 100 hours sitting beside a career driving instuctor doing laps of bankstown mall.

A car is an indescriminate lethal weapon, any wally can buy one without even having a license, the mind boggles...

They will put rotaries in the BONGO vans and do fully sick burnouts.

photn · 08-11-2006, 11:27 AM

well i hate to break it to you but there are just as many ppl wrapping there cars on the road apart from p platers. ppl from ages 20+...i read alot of reports of 42yr old males rolling there utes in Rural area.....so dont just go and blame the P platers.....btw the most occurunt cause is loss of control.....

and dont give me this crap that it takes a true driver to control a car under certain conditions cause any1 who follows the speed limit and stays in there lane can then be classes as a True driver......

GCFordChic · 08-11-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longreach

GCFordChic - In reply to your comment about seat belts, i think you may want to take another look at the roads. I believe you'll find that ALOT of the men that fit in that age catergory do NOT wear seat belts. I know this wasn't the whole point you were raising. But on the seat belt issue you'll find that alot more young people wear selt belts than older people.

You are right, that wasnt my point.

Comparing wisom and judgement decisions (if at 45 you dont wear a seatbelt, i have no sympathy, if at 45 you dont know that seatbelts save lives, crawl out from under your rock...) to inexperienced, immature and poorly educated decisons (young drivers not knowing how to retain control of a vehicle out of control and being a immature prat in doing risky things while in control of a car arrying your friends).

Immaturity also has alot to do with it, that will only be fixed by life experience. Some people will die in gaining that experience, others will scrape through and not continue to act like idiots on the road.
Education will only help somewhat, but i think it will help more than 'initiatives' like the multitude of restrictions will. It isnt as if the minute they become open licence holders someone will know how to regain control of a fishtailing vehicle, how to ignore rowdy passengers and focus on the road, how to drive a higher powered vehicle etc. What is the point of restrictions unless you teach someone the things they are restricted from doing before the restriction is lifted?

EG at school in a workshop, you dont restrict a student from using power tools in grade 8,9,10 then let them have unlimited access to them in year 11 and 12 without having provided them with training and safety instructions throughout the restricted period. That would be stupid and dangerous.

fordOwner · 08-11-2006, 11:42 AM

hang on, I thought this thread is about young drivers? not 42 yr olds. oh and by the way you dont have to be young to be a P plater! - My granny just got her licence at 72!

OK, and some more "crap" for ya - come round to my joint when its raining, even when its not. All the "good" drivers slides and spins round the corner only to then hear a BANG! then a knock on my door asking for assistance coz his/hers cars wheel has snapped off from a kerb. And im with you photn - they are all ages - the majority of them are P's.

Ive just had a gut full.

photn · 08-11-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordowner

hang on, I thought this thread is about young drivers? not 42 yr olds. oh and by the way you dont have to be young to be a P plater! - My granny just got her licence at 72!

OK, and some more "crap" for ya - come round to my joint when its raining, even when its not. All the "good" drivers slides and spins round the corner only to then hear a BANG! then a knock on my door asking for assistance coz his/hers cars wheel has snapped off from a kerb. And im with you photn - they are all ages - the majority of them are P's.

Ive just had a gut full.

if there are that many ppl having crashes then you should complain to your local government....more likely that the road conditions or street posted speeds should be changed to make sure that there are less and less accidents...

ware abouts do you live?

btw i was using 42yr olds as a comparison.....

fordOwner · 08-11-2006, 12:49 PM

I live in a residential area in Perth's metro area. Its a 50km/h zone and the corner is long and sweeping with good visabilty. (With a school crossing down the road) The big trees have been taken down and the tarmac is new. Signs are present and barriers have been placed, not quite sure what more they could do.
All you have to do is cruise round the corner in third gear, both hands on the steering wheel and you'll make it through.
Not like these Gazzards who thrash through the corner at a guessing speed of 80-100km/h, one hand on the wheel with the back end taking over from the front.
Its because of this that makes me so passionate about this topic.
Ive stood out the front waving a sign that says "Last Lap" This has had an impact as I got praise from parents who live on my street. But yes, you are right I will have to do more complaining to my local government.

ONBA1L · 08-11-2006, 12:50 PM

since on the subject of crashes. ive got an xd and its got no power to do stupid **** like burnouts or go sideways or speed so i dont bother. speaking of crashes its not my place to say another persons story but most of u shuld no or heard bout the yellow vl turbo (HWY-BT1) whilst leaving noble park mcdonalds he did a slight burnout and not seeing the cops turn in he sped off onto princess hwy going towards dandy. my mates and i all decided to follow as we hit the intersection of princess hwy and heatherton rd we saw him wrapped around 2 poles and smashed into another car. the guys in the car happened to do a runner and leave the car there. we all stood around to see what was goin on. there were bits all over the rd. im not saying i dont like holdens bc i plan on getting 1 but most of the time when u see an accident of people not just p platers that had done stupid **** it is usually a commodore driver. i just cant understand.

Tiapan · 08-11-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick_Aussie

You think fords dont kill

Best thing too do but it's hard is too yell shut the **** up who pays for the speeding fine? Me my car don't like it walk!

i never said fords dont kill, would be a dumb comment on my behalf, look at the bloody ratios ....name a recent fatal p-plater crash in a ford and there is five holden fatal crashes to each one.
funny thing is, many times i have gotten into a car knowing that the driver is a dikchead driver, and just from this thread i have promised myself not to get into those cars unless im the driver. poor passengers dont have a chance to save there own lives.

I used to egg the driver on...after many lucky crashes i have stopped

bencat · 08-11-2006, 01:09 PM

The reason P platers get the grief is sensationalisum, media hype, all age groups kill themselves and others doing stupid things in cars although propotionaly there are more young drivers dying (and killing their passengers) in sensational accidents.

Darwin was wrong, if today's young drivers are just as bad or worse than yesterdays young drivers were devolving not evolving... Hmm, is it regressing or devolving?

And why is it just the P platers that want to drag race me at the lights when I'm on my Speed Tripple? Do they not understand the laws of phyisics? .90 - 1 power to weight ratio means I win so I don't even bother...

Ryan · 08-11-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONBA1L

im not saying i dont like holdens bc i plan on getting 1 but most of the time when u see an accident of people not just p platers that had done stupid **** it is usually a commodore driver. i just cant understand.

I understand it. Commodores are naturally the car of choice, for the average ****er. (They're cheap and are affordable to anyone) I don't like to say that, because I own a Commodore, but it's true.

The Commodore community is huge and the idiots are exposed more then just about any car group, on our roads.

Basically the stereotype fuels this and alot of people notice it's a Commodore, because Commodores do generally have the reputation of a hoon car. (Would anyone make a comment about the type of car involved in the accident, if it was a Kia or Daewoo? Probably not, because there's no immediate stereotype)

Like I said before though, it doesn't really matter, because everyone will be brought down, not just Commodore drivers.

God I wish I was on my opens. **sigh**

MotherNatureVer2 · 08-11-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normxb

On another side (which I think is TOO late) is discipline , modern "rules" don't allow for "parenting" anymore . The rights of younger people are much more important ! ! . They are taught in school now that "Their rights are ....." and it has nothing to do with parents advice , completely the opposite in fact .

When we were young (yep, I know I'll get flamed) if you did something wrong , you got a clip across the ear ( I don't think we were any worse off for it ) or grounded for weeks , if the cop caught you down the street after 10 pm , he'd give you a "boot up the bum" & send you home . He can't do that anymore , you can call him names or whatever & he can't do much about it . (no respect)

I tell my son (14) " If you go to do anything , think about it , is it right or wrong" , if it's wrong , Don't Do It .

I think modern society ( read as Do-Gooders) have a lot to answer for .

This is exactly the point..... And to the person who thinks this is understated ... Wake up matey ... time to get out of dreamland .....

We have a few new 'P' Platers in town now & they all have the attitude that its there right to have this licence....... It gives them the right to terrorise the local silos and streets just because they have a car & a licence ......

They are all that cocky that when its suggested that they may slow down a little & not do the hoon thing on the roads the standard response it to be told to get lost, they can do as they please because no one can stop them .....

It horrifies me to think that they may well God Forbid be the next news story that we read about .......... It also horrifys me that one of our boys is mates with the drivers & is often in the cars with them ...........

All we can do as parents & a community is to try to educate them and hope like hell they listen to the warnings.

It has got to the stage that we are organising a video night to show evidence of what can happen should things go bad ..............

HOON69 · 08-11-2006, 02:13 PM

i love the news reports

60year old died in a car accident investigations are still pending

in other news car with x amount of ppl inside crashed and its believe the driver is a P plater

: the crash is bad enough yes but FFS the L,P plater isssues are getting beyond a joke i reckon its funny how they say nothing about a old dude yet highlight the facts of the younger driver .

LTDHO · 08-11-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

i love the news reports

60year old died in a car accident investigations are still pending

in other news car with x amount of ppl inside crashed and its believe the driver is a P plater

: the crash is bad enough yes but FFS the L,P plater isssues are getting beyond a joke i reckon its funny how they say nothing about a old dude yet highlight the facts of the younger driver .

There will never be bad reports regarding the elderly. Ever.