October 2011 sales

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Interesting, Holden loyalty runs pretty deep and wouldn't be surprised if nary an eyebrow was raised..

this here is a major understatement and something many on this forum fail to grasp. many commodore buyers don't even consider alternatives. compare that to the ford camp, where many of the so called 'supporters' rubbish the brand at every opportunity. if anyone thinks for a minute that things are different (dealer service wise) on the other side of the fence, then you live in a dream world.

for me, i'm like a commodore buyer. i don't even bother looking at any other brand. i like my fords and will only buy fords.

unfortunately for me, buying new cars is not an option. i have a family of 4 and a mortgage and a new car is the best part of a years take home wages.

[BruceT]

Originally Posted by lowriding

XR6 is now currently on sale @ 34990 d/away with leather ,18's ,reverse sensors and 7 inch screen ..thats no haggle for a 6 spd manual ...you can get the 6spd auto at the same price with 2 mins of negotiation.Thats a pretty cheap deal really.

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satel...oller&site=FOA

Yes and they need to keep selling them at close to this price when the FGII comes out.

We will be buying a new family car next year. I'm seriously considering an EcoLPI XR6 as I anticipate petrol will be $2.50/litre (or more) within 5 years. (It needs to to sub $38k to make it worth it.) We've hit peak oil. The only reason petrol and diesel are not more expensive is Europe, US and Japan and close to recession. But China and India are still growing strongly. China has already surpassed US car sales:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...green-vehicles

I can only see one way Falcon/Territory can survive beyond the next few years and that is to focus on the area where they already have the advantage - direct injection LPG. The fact is that Ford engineers could have got both better economy and better power out of the EcoLPI Barra. They left the compression ratio the same as for the 91 RON petrol engine even though the propane/butane mix used in LPG has a RON of 100+. They can get sub 10 L/100km combined if they try.

Ford need to anticipate a doubling of fuel prices (say LPG $1.20/litre, ULP $2.50, diesel $3.00) and build a Falcon & Territory around LPG: cars that don't compromise boot space if you want a spare tire. They need to either rebuild the LPG-Barra to higher compression standards, or source/design & build a smaller I6 (V6) that will do it. (I prefer the I6 because of it's inherent simplicity & smoothness.) They need to get external markets - either for engine or for the whole car - and they need to share platforms with another rear wheel drive car - probably the Mustang.

I recently got a Hire FG XR6 for 10 days while my Fiesta was in smash repairs. Very impresive, but I would NOT buy the petrol model. While I got 11.0 L/100 km on my daily run (mostly motorway) in the first 5 days, my wife got 16.3 L/100 km on the stop-go family taxi service. (These are based on Odometer/bowser readings not the dodgy fuel computer.)

Australia exports half the LPG we produce. That's why it's so cheap here! We are only going to produce more as we produce more natural gas. That's called an opportunity. Despite being incredibly tardy on the uptake, Ford is still in the lead here and can make it work. I hope they sieze that opportunity. I doubt they will, given their record, eg. where's the EcoiLPI Territory? Why did it take sooo long to get the EcoiLPI? (Yes I know don't tell me.)

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BruceT

as I anticipate petrol will be $2.50/litre (or more) within 5 years.

people have been predicting this for years. still hasn't happened. as newer technologies come online, the demand for petrol eases.

Originally Posted by BruceT

I can only see one way Falcon/Territory can survive beyond the next few years and that is to focus on the area where they already have the advantage - direct injection LPG.

ecoLPi isn't direct injection LPG. that tech may be available overseas (not sure) but not with ford.

Originally Posted by BruceT

I recently got a Hire FG XR6 for 10 days while my Fiesta was in smash repairs. Very impresive, but I would NOT buy the petrol model. While I got 11.0 L/100 km on my daily run (mostly motorway) in the first 5 days, my wife got 16.3 L/100 km on the stop-go family taxi service. (These are based on Odometer/bowser readings not the dodgy fuel computer.)

a lot of assumptions in this last bit. mine, and many others on here, trip computer is pretty accurate. i test mine against the bowser every fill and its within half a litre. that could be the difference between filling to the first click, or filling a bit longer.

its also premature to judge it on only 5 days of test driving. i do shift work so am rarely in traffic, so i get 10L/100km round town (ave 47km/h) but fully loaded trip to bris and back (from adelaide with 4 people and luggage) mine averaged 7.9 for the whole round trip. some tanks did better. that includes the tank of juice i used driving around whilst up there.

don't underestimate how good these cars can be. some still call them gas guzzlers. not me.

[BruceT]

Originally Posted by prydey

people have been predicting this for years. still hasn't happened. as newer technologies come online, the demand for petrol eases.

It will happen. Promise! Part of the reason we haven't seen such steep price rises is the $A has gone from $US0.70 to $US1.05 Oil is mostly bought and sold in $US. Admitedly half our petrol price is tax, so an $A at $US0.70 would probably mean $1.75 a litre.

Originally Posted by prydey

ecoLPi isn't direct injection LPG. that tech may be available overseas (not sure) but not with ford.

I stand corrected. More scope for improvement then.

Originally Posted by prydey

a lot of assumptions in this last bit. mine, and many others on here, trip computer is pretty accurate. i test mine against the bowser every fill and its within half a litre. that could be the difference between filling to the first click, or filling a bit longer.

I've carefully tested by Fiesta trip computer over nearly 40,000 km. I've averaged 7.05 L/100km by odometrer/bowser calculations, but 6.28 L/100km by the trip computer. So my real consumption is 12% higher than the trip computer says. For the hire Falcon over 431 km (10 days) based on the trip computer we (me & the other half) averaged 12.0 L/100 km. Based on the odo/bowser it was 13.1L/100 km. That's 9% higher than the TC says. I fill it to first click every time. But I've compared trip and ODO-bowser measures after 105 refils on the Fiesta (yes I'm a bit OCD), 95% of them show the real economy is between 8% and 17% worse (higher consumption) than the trip computer says. So I stand by the statement for the hire car.

Originally Posted by prydey

its also premature to judge it on only 5 days of test driving. i do shift work so am rarely in traffic, so i get 10L/100km round town (ave 47km/h) but fully loaded trip to bris and back (from adelaide with 4 people and luggage) mine averaged 7.9 for the whole round trip. some tanks did better. that includes the tank of juice i used driving around whilst up there.

After I refilled the XR6 I drove it back along the M2 (90% of the 30 km trip was motorway) in Sydney to the hire car place. I got 6.9 L/100km on the TC. Even if I add 9% that's 7.5 L/100. SO I BELIEVE YOU.

The Barra is in it's element doing 1500 RPM at 100 km/h. It is almost as efficient as my Fiesta under these circumstances. The Fiesta does 3000 RPM at 100 km/hr and gets about 6.5 to 6.8 L/100 (bowser) when loaded up for country trips. I'd rather be in a BF XR6.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BruceT

I've carefully tested by Fiesta trip computer over nearly 40,000 km. I've averaged 7.05 L/100km by odometrer/bowser calculations, but 6.28 L/100km by the trip computer. .......I fill it to first click every time.

by my reckoning, the trip computer still seems pretty accurate. it is impossible to fill to the same level every time. the 'first click' will never be at the same point.
regardless, its not like its reading miles different.
fg's have a 'fuel used' feature as part of the trip computer. i reset this each fill, and each fill it is within cooee of what i manage to put in.



either way, fuel consumption may be one of the reasons for the slump in large car sales, but it doesn't explain the rise in popularity of suv's/4wd's. commodore is also just as 'thirsty' and yet manages to sell a reasonable amount each month.

[Windsor220]

I've said it before its all about space, luggage capacity, seating capacity that attract people to SUVs. Would be more practical to a family than a Falcon sedan. SUVs are usually shorter than Falcon/Commodore too and with the rise in population and cars on the road, size does matter to a lot of people.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But Ford need to do some serious brand image building, I think a lot of there sales problems are caused by bad brand image, and bad reputation. Not to mention years of poor PR and sales and marketing. They are trying to do a lot to fix the marketing, they still need work in other areas, as well as fixing shoddy dealerships.

Exactly. The Ford range has never been this consistently strong across the board, but the same old dealer network is there reminding past buyers why they stay away.


Dan

[Brazen]

The cars have never been better, but when ever I see a Ford ad, I just think its heritage is so wasted. The ads could easily belong to Hyundai or Kia.

Would be great to see Ford tap into its rich Australian heritage, tug at the heart strings a bit... go for the heart of the typical Aussie buyer.

Ford Au could be one of those real turnaround success stories, probably needs a bit of a cultural change though at management level.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The cars have never been better, but when ever I see a Ford ad, I just think its heritage is so wasted. The ads could easily belong to Hyundai or Kia.

Would be great to see Ford tap into its rich Australian heritage, tug at the heart strings a bit... go for the heart of the typical Aussie buyer.

Ford Au could be one of those real turnaround success stories, probably needs a bit of a cultural change though at management level.

Yes, it's to the continual annoyance to many fans on this site that Ford continually understates the virtues and
features of the Falcon in advertising, people are not as familiar with it as once was the case and no, the product
doesn't just sell itself any more. Falcon needs "Push Promotions" do that and the numbers would jump considerably.

IMO, a real image changer like Ecoboost I-4 or V6 diesel is needed to really capture the imagination of buyers,
Ford owes itself that much to put products out there that are different to Commodore and that buyers like.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, it's to the continual annoyance to many fans on this site that Ford continually understates the virtues and
features of the Falcon in advertising, people are not as familiar with it as once was the case and no, the product
doesn't just sell itself any more. Falcon needs "Push Promotions" do that and the numbers would jump considerably.

IMO, a real image changer like Ecoboost I-4 or V6 diesel is needed to really capture the imagination of buyers,
Ford owes itself that much to put products out there that are different to Commodore and that buyers like.

With EcoBoost and EcoLPI it would be great to see 2500 to 3000 a month. With a million plus market I think effective advertising is a worthwhile investment in such a solid all round product.

I still think Ford has made an assumption that a lot of people out there know the benefits of a Falcon, they almost need to go back to basics to show what a Falcon is capable of. Im thinking modern interpretations of those 70s and 80s ads showing a Falcon as the perfect family car, perfect holiday car, perfect touring car, perfect tow car - sure people dont NEED those things, but sure as hell you can convince people that they WANT it.

In a way, the focus on the performance variants whilst successful for a while in getting a 'different' kind of Falcon buyer, may have in fact alienated the middle Australia or traditional family buyer. It is actually fascinating to think about how the marketing for Falcon can be relevant for Australia in 2011, ironically I feel they need to go back to the past to do it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

With EcoBoost and EcoLPI it would be great to see 2500 to 3000 a month. With a million plus market I think effective advertising is a worthwhile investment in such a solid all round product.

I still think Ford has made an assumption that a lot of people out there know the benefits of a Falcon, they almost need to go back to basics to show what a Falcon is capable of. Im thinking modern interpretations of those 70s and 80s ads showing a Falcon as the perfect family car, perfect holiday car, perfect touring car, perfect tow car - sure people dont NEED those things, but sure as hell you can convince people that they WANT it.

In a way, the focus on the performance variants whilst successful for a while in getting a 'different' kind of Falcon buyer, may have in fact alienated the middle Australia or traditional family buyer. It is actually fascinating to think about how the marketing for Falcon can be relevant for Australia in 2011, ironically I feel they need to go back to the past to do it.

This.

Good post, my sentiments too..

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by BruceT

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satel...oller&site=FOA

Yes and they need to keep selling them at close to this price when the FGII comes out.

We will be buying a new family car next year. I'm seriously considering an EcoLPI XR6 as I anticipate petrol will be $2.50/litre (or more) within 5 years. (It needs to to sub $38k to make it worth it.) We've hit peak oil. The only reason petrol and diesel are not more expensive is Europe, US and Japan and close to recession. But China and India are still growing strongly. China has already surpassed US car sales:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...green-vehicles

I can only see one way Falcon/Territory can survive beyond the next few years and that is to focus on the area where they already have the advantage - direct injection LPG. The fact is that Ford engineers could have got both better economy and better power out of the EcoLPI Barra. They left the compression ratio the same as for the 91 RON petrol engine even though the propane/butane mix used in LPG has a RON of 100+. They can get sub 10 L/100km combined if they try.

Ford need to anticipate a doubling of fuel prices (say LPG $1.20/litre, ULP $2.50, diesel $3.00) and build a Falcon & Territory around LPG: cars that don't compromise boot space if you want a spare tire. They need to either rebuild the LPG-Barra to higher compression standards, or source/design & build a smaller I6 (V6) that will do it. (I prefer the I6 because of it's inherent simplicity & smoothness.) They need to get external markets - either for engine or for the whole car - and they need to share platforms with another rear wheel drive car - probably the Mustang.

I recently got a Hire FG XR6 for 10 days while my Fiesta was in smash repairs. Very impresive, but I would NOT buy the petrol model. While I got 11.0 L/100 km on my daily run (mostly motorway) in the first 5 days, my wife got 16.3 L/100 km on the stop-go family taxi service. (These are based on Odometer/bowser readings not the dodgy fuel computer.)

Australia exports half the LPG we produce. That's why it's so cheap here! We are only going to produce more as we produce more natural gas. That's called an opportunity. Despite being incredibly tardy on the uptake, Ford is still in the lead here and can make it work. I hope they sieze that opportunity. I doubt they will, given their record, eg. where's the EcoiLPI Territory? Why did it take sooo long to get the EcoiLPI? (Yes I know don't tell me.)

No they didn't, the LPI engine runs 12.1:1, and fact is you are never going to get the same kays per litre out of gas as you are petrol, gas does not have the same volumetric efficiency as petrol.

LPG in Australia varies seasonally too, mixes including both propane and butane, depending on the season in winter more propane, in summer more butane, the difference is like running 95ron compared to 91ron depending on blend.

[FG_Frodza]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The cars have never been better, but when ever I see a Ford ad, I just think its heritage is so wasted. The ads could easily belong to Hyundai or Kia.

Would be great to see Ford tap into its rich Australian heritage, tug at the heart strings a bit... go for the heart of the typical Aussie buyer.

Ford Au could be one of those real turnaround success stories, probably needs a bit of a cultural change though at management level.

I agree mate, I have been thinking for a while that Ford Aus should come out with an ad featuring all the cars that they have brought out over the years that people will remember, aimed at people of all ages (XY GT, XC Cobra, old Bathurst clips as well as BA Falcons, Territorys) and they should use this song (I think they used it in the AU ads?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxJK6_QzAU&feature=fvst, thehn they can close with some new Falcons/Territorys and it will sort of be like saying 'Hey remember how we made all these great cars? Well we still do...'

I think Ford got it spot on with the 'Amazing' ads when Territory came out and I think they could do one like this in the same vein...

[gokhan]

Originally Posted by FG_Frodza

...and they should use this song (I think they used it in the AU ads?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxJK6_QzAU&feature=fvst...

I think you're thinking of this ad : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNOY1mAo40U

[new2ford]

Why is the Hilux always included in the passenger car sales figures, it's a truck?

[Bossxr8]

Its shouldn't be, some newspapers don't include it in the top 10 sellers lists because its not a passenger vehicle, its a commercial.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its shouldn't be, some newspapers don't include it in the top 10 sellers lists because its not a passenger vehicle, its a commercial.

I've noticed that it has appeared with increasing regularity over the last couple of years and most press don't filter it out. It's Vfacts that put it in.

It certainly works to Toyota's advantage because it boosts their overall figure and makes them look good up the top of the list with more models. Perhaps the Falcon and Holden utes should be included in their figures - I always thought they were listed separately. Somebody should take this up with Vfacts. I used to have a good contact with them but I don't any longer, perhaps somebody else has? They will respond to concerns like this if someone raises it with them.

[Dr Smith]

I thought this ad was very catchy and a new modern version should focus just on Falcon and show off it's feature, no abstract artsy fartsy stuff,...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4T_IhTviZo

[prydey]

hands up how many people have bought something based on what they saw on a tv commercial. how many people actually take notice of commercials. when commercials come on, most people zone out for a few minutes. take the opportunity to get up and make a coffee/tend to kids/make a quick call etc etc so they don't miss their show.

of all the cars that are above falcon on the sales chart, how many of those sales are thanks to tv advertising? i can only speak for my area but i rarely see ads for any of them, including commodore and cruze. maybe i just don't watch tv at the right times.

every month its the same old dribble on here. the marketing is useless, the car is useless, ford don't make what people want, blah blah blah.

sometimes it just is what it is. ford aus probably expected 2011 to continue to be a pretty lean year. i would imagine they would hope for an improve in the next 12 months with all their projects coming online in that period. do they expect them to go gangbusters the minute they hit the showroom floors? AFF members certainly expect them to.

[DanielXR8]

I used to live in a country town and in one regional city, where the Ford dealers had a lousy reputation in the local community and for good reason.

A great Ford car, breathtaking television campaign etc isn't going to make the slightest difference to a lot of people in those circumstances, especially old customers of the brand, if the current dealer principal, whose head space is still stuck in another decade, thinks he is teflon when it comes to customer complaints and that service standards are a cost and not a benefit to his business, well....

Combine that with Fords poor track record on recalls and timely fixes for issues with the local cars and you have a recipe for a bad reputation.
The stories of unhappy customers spread through the town and Ford becomes poison. Then great product doesn't sell and everyone wonders why and start going on about the next awesome tv commercial or Holden conspiracy. Its quite simple really, Ford at a local level let customers down.

The hardest part of the puzzle - fixing the dealer network has been ignored for decades. Ford choose to ignore it, many fans underplay it, but its a real problem and it costs lots of sales. What is worse is that its accumulative. The longer the problem is allowed to persist, the worse the reputation for the brand.

[whales]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

All of this "can't get enough stock" talk, I have been hearing for years. Let's face it, it's not that Ford can't get enough Fiestas, Focus' or build enough Falcons. It's that the general public aren't buying them.

Surely we can't be happy with Ford flagging in 5th position. Image is everything and people like a winner. That old chestnut, "but Ford makes a profit" will mean diddly squat when no one is buying as the Ford image deteriorates with every rung of the ladder that it slips down.

It's time to fix the image. It's FORD for crying out loud! Known all around the world with starting the assembly line as we know it. Start tapping in to its rich history in the marketing of the BRAND.

Well bloody said.
Holden sell every commodore at a loss everyone says but they still made
$100m+ profit

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I thought this ad was very catchy and a new modern version should focus just on Falcon and show off it's feature, no abstract artsy fartsy stuff,...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4T_IhTviZo

I remember that ad..and I agree a modern version should be done...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by whales

Well bloody said.
Holden sell every commodore at a loss everyone says but they still made
$100m+ profit

LOL, Ford also made a profit last year too...selling far less vehicles.

Holden's total revenue was around $4 billion while Ford Australia was around $2.2B
So you tell me who got the best return on capital expenditure....

[Windsor220]

Holden selling cars at a loss is just a big wives tale. They most likely sell at a smaller profit but not a loss.

[russellw]

The first set of graphical data is now uploaded into the Tech portal.

Regards
Russ

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by jpd80

LOL, Ford also made a profit last year too...selling far less vehicles.

Holden's total revenue was around $4 billion while Ford Australia was around $2.2B
So you tell me who got the best return on capital expenditure....

I go back to what I said before. If the sales continue like they are, it will have an accumulative effect on the general public's perception of the car. They don't care about margins and profits, they want a winner and a respected brand so they aren't laughed at when asked "what car did you buy?". No doubt that the public see Ford going down the path of Mitsubishi. I don't want that.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Holden selling cars at a loss is just a big wives tale. They most likely sell at a smaller profit but not a loss.

Falcon and Commodore are far from being loss makers. Yes, they do chew up PD funds but
people need to understand that both manufacturers have very different business plans.

While Holden builds Commodore sedan/Ute/S'wagon and Cruze locally, it imports Captiva.
Ford on the other hand builds Falcon/Ute/Territory locally and chooses to import Focus and Mondeo S/W.

In the end, all that's important is that both manufacturers sell what ever volume they produce
and continue to make enough money to fund continued development of local products.

[Windsor220]

I go back to what I said before. If the sales continue like they are, it will have an accumulative effect on the general public's perception of the car. They don't care about margins and profits, they want a winner and a respected brand so they aren't laughed at when asked "what car did you buy?". No doubt that the public see Ford going down the path of Mitsubishi. I don't want that.

The general public wouldn't have a clue about sales numbers.

[jpd80]

I go back to what I said before. If the sales continue like they are, it will have an accumulative effect on the general public's perception of the car. They don't care about margins and profits, they want a winner and a respected brand so they aren't laughed at when asked "what car did you buy?". No doubt that the public see Ford going down the path of Mitsubishi. I don't want that.

The market is much more fragmented these days and people can buy cars more suited to their need
rather than just go buy a large sedan. You're not going to be able to force buyers into a large car
if they really want something else better suited to their budgets and needs.

Ford and Holden deliberately make their local cars bigger so they can charge more for them,
this has been the game for years until Holden opened up Cruze production, now they make products
that sell for around $10K to $15K less than their Commodore range, that's like exporting to the USA
without the expensive developing program and export shipping hassles....

I for one hope that methodology works out well for them. Equally, I hope that Ford realises
that by making Falcon a slightly smaller/lighter car, they can actually capture much more of the
mid sized market and set themselves less directly in front of Holden, there is room for everyone
but no in exactly the same markets, sometimes you have to use a different strategy to get more sales.

Next year there's an election.
What's the chances that both Ford and Holden will be off to explain to Canberra that continued
manufacturing of local products is dependent on securing sufficient funds to do so and a show of
sufficient financial support to back that significant expenditure would be good business for everyone.....

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I go back to what I said before. If the sales continue like they are, it will have an accumulative effect on the general public's perception of the car. They don't care about margins and profits, they want a winner and a respected brand so they aren't laughed at when asked "what car did you buy?". No doubt that the public see Ford going down the path of Mitsubishi. I don't want that.

And what makes you think the average car buyer looks at sales charts every month or even cares??? Reality check please!!

If we are only talking about people saying “what car did you buy”.. Ford is the 3rd best selling make in this country YTD of god sake.. There are lot of other makes in big big trouble then!!