Tough Times Ahead

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by fte50

Ok I have a question

We unanimously agree on all of the previous sentiments but I would like to quote a post from stevs coz this constantly ponders on my mind.

[COLOR="Red"]If we can see it, why cant govco, or if they see it, what is their agenda ?
Im interested in peoples views !

A few problems:
Our governments only think short-term. At best, they are looking only as far as the next election, and when things get tight, they are only looking as far as the next opinion poll.
The Chinese government works towards FIFTY year goals. For them, 10 years is considered “short-term” planning.

Our governments tend to be ideologically driven. They will follow certain policies, or bend policies to the left or right based on their ideological views.
Despite the “communist” trappings, China has only ONE ideology: Do what is BEST for China and the Chinese people.

Consider the Abbott government, and the three years they have before facing re-election. Now consider how much time they will waste; undoing what KRudd & Gillard did, fighting/ bickering/ point scoring with the opposition, and fighting with the Greens and random twats to get legislation passed.
The Chinese may appear ponderous, but at least they are generally moving in one direction; FORWARD.

The art of being a politician is about giving the illusion of doing something about whatever the public thinks it cares about this week.
Your average Australian cares more about the Greenhouse Gas mythology and “boat people.” Even when unemployment is once again high enough to be a vote turner, these solutions are too long-term for an Australian government. They would rather hand out welfare, than cause the necessary pain to recreate jobs in Australia.

The “Not MY problem” view is endemic in Australia. When another factory closes, everybody just tut-tuts and goes on about their business. Even those who have lost their jobs are naturally more concerned with the immediate effects, than in the economic malaise behind the closures.
Let’s not forget, that in Australia’s darkest economic hour, with the most unpopular PM imaginable, Australians rejected Hewson’s plans for tax reform and the Liberals lost the “un-losable” election. No politician is going to propose the radical reform we need.

By and large a disproportionate number of wealthy professionals (who drive expensive imports) vote Liberal, and similarly a disproportionate number of blue-collar bogans (who drive Commodes) vote Labour.
So there aren’t many votes to be had for the Liberals in saving manufacturing, whilst they also need to give lip service to trendy environmental agendas and daren’t risk increasing the price of imported luxuries for fear of losing the “trendy elite vote.” Interestingly, the swing in the last election (in WA) was not the middle ground moving, but conservatives returning to the Liberal fold having decided that Australia couldn’t afford the Carbon & Mining Tax.
Then, whilst the Labor party IS the party that should be protecting workers jobs, they are more concerned with chasing the Green vote, and with their out-dated “Keynesian” economics. Their response to the 2-speed economy was to try to tax the mining industry to bring it down to the same depressed level as manufacturing.

[Jason[98.EL]]

the strange thing of all this doom and gloom is the company that I work for exports approx 99% of our product to asia ( the other 1% is an australian company )

we currently produce about 220 tons a yr and is getting boosted up to closer to 320 by the end of next yr and we are about to employ another 30 ish people.

Jason

[93EB_SXR6]

People in other parts of the world are willing to work harder than Australians, for a smaller wage.
That might be the problem.

[Franco Cozzo]

With what's going to happen.in 2016 with the loss of the manufacturing industry I reckon the *** will fall out of the housing market with all the job losses going to hit Victoria, this will be Gen Y's chance to get housing.

Its too expensive, I'm considering getting a 5th wheeler caravan and a rural property as a "base" instead of a $350,000 house. I've already got the tow vehicle. Those vans you could easily live in, plus you can move around easily.

Maybe its time for a government which isn't liberal or labor, or maybe just time for a civil war.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

They also need to do something to stop the wholesale rorting of the 457 visas. Again, I worked on a massive project where the owners had been allowed to bring in thousands of Chinese workers. If they were any indication, China won’t be ruling the world any time soon. Slow, lazy, incompetent, dishonest, and with trade “qualifications” that they probably bought on the internet. But hey, they were CHEAP. The union that should have been protecting Australian workers got bought off. The company paid for all its Chinese workers to be fully paid up members, thereby buying the union’s silence.

Thousands you say, I've worked in mining & construction/offshore oil & gas since 1980, all in WA, and never heard of a "massive" project importing "thousands" of Chinese workers over the top of Australians and I or my two brothers have worked on most of the bigger projects in WA, I'm currently working on the biggest project (Gorgon) this country has ever seen (make's the Snowy Mountain's scheme look small) and one of the biggest in the world and I can't recall ever seeing an imported Chinese yet! Both of my brothers are in mining, one in the Pilbara and the other in the goldfields and they haven't heard of this either.....we all know of 457 visa's being used to fill gaps in the skilled workforce that Aussies won't.......but thousands on the one project? news to me.......

And how did they get them to site? I'm pretty sure thousands of Chinese workers transiting Perth Airport to point's north would have created a stir......

We have plenty of Pom's, South African's, Kiwi's, Yank's, Canadian's and Filipinos working in my industry, all with the same wages and conditions as Australians, and every one of those positions was filled after both the employers and the unions exhausted all avenues in Australia, we wouldn't have it any other way.....

Which project was this and which unions involved? one phone call will easily confirm or deny the claim.....

[GQ_Smooth]

I personally think a lot of you don't give Mr and Mrs Joe Average enough credit. Properly motivated and correctly informed the Australia public can make significant changes. However being in a relatively free society, when ever a topic is raised, we have 3-5 differing opinions diluting what is actually best for the "greater good". Self interest groups put their 2 cents in, the public lose focus and move on to the next topic.

The vast majority of people want their children to have a life as goods as if not better than them, and will not actively destroy their future to save 10-20% here and there. It is not as easy as you may think to make the right decision when almost every argument has merit.

Remember we are still "mostly" a free society people have the right to chose (on most things), and the majority of people (as much as a lot of you will disagree) aren't stupid.

[mik]

The country is stuffed, have a look around your house and ask yourself what in my house do we now still make here in australia , I'll sit here waitng for a reply while eating the only grapes I could get from the supermarket which came from america.

[DreadlyST]

As someone who came to Aus 6 years ago to escape the GFC in europe. I find that Aussies can be lazy whingers, and choose price over quality 4 out of 5 times. The customer service indrusty here is appaling, I cannot count the amount of times I have been ignored in a shop when I have intended on purchasing something, so have walked out due to crap service. Also the housing market is a joke, if you borrow $500K over 30 years to buy a house ( property value $150K location surcharge $350K ) you end up paying well over a million for your house.
Don't even get me started on the money racket that these 457 visas are all about, I am a a permanent resident of this fine land now and it has cost me somewhere in the region of $10-$15K between government fees, immigration fees, agent fees and other fees relating to the required documentation, asylum seekers come and the govt gives them money, where's the equality?

[Revolver]

In the end we are all to blame, be it an individual, a company or country (and not just our own) it has become a race to the lowest $ both producing & buying. We have become a disposable society With a simple "replace rather than fix" strategy employed by companies to get you to buy new by making the replacement item less than what the parts are to fix, (if they are not obsolete which most of the time they are) this then gets the consumer into the frame of mind of "oh its newer, flashier & cheaper" and it simply carries on in the rinse & repeat cycle.

We are grossly overcharged here in Australia. Mostly by 150-200% or more for the same product that can be bought in an overseas country (hell even if its made here & shipped overseas). Same product, same manufacturer. And we being the untime-managed, too busy to worry about it lambs pay that price. Problem is people are so busy trying to fit so much in their day that they dont bother to research this problem and its not until we (every one of us) stop buying these products at this price. But we cant live without them, so we buy it. Rinse & repeat.

As said before, there is no silver bullet (well there is) but it all comes down to the almighty $. Employees want more, companies want more (hence why employees want more), and the government wants their slice as well (3 ways, not just one).

And that silver bullet? Everyone needs to stop. Quite literally. Stop look at how your life is, think about how your living it, too fast, too expensive, take on the "work to it" attitude instead of paying through the nose for the "I want it now" attitude (AKA instant gratification) and think how you are going to do your part of helping everyone and yourself from the rinse & repeat cycle. The government (all levels) needs to do the same. There should only be an income tax (more than what it is now) and thats it. You should not be taxed on what you earn, taxed on what you buy, & taxed on what you spend (a triple dip) then you have state & local government charges & taxes as well. Federal & state could also help by lowering their own salaries. Why? Not because they are "paid" too much, but because serving in politics should be a public service, not a paid career. Sure you need to live, so average wage/salary plus 10% for your service. NO golden handshakes. NO bonuses especially for poor performance. And the latter can also be applied for company execs & CEO's. No one needs 10M a year paid from helping the company. Its your job. If you MAKE 10m a year from your own work entrepreneurially fair enough. You MADE it from thin air. And good luck to you.

The big problem is everyone needs to think this. And all at the same time. But it wont happen.....

Originally Posted by fte50

Given we can all relate to and appreciate the above statements, why is it that govco have allowed this to happen, its an engineered/designed chain of circumstances negatively impacting Australians and our very fabric of life.
If we can see it, why cant govco, or if they see it, what is their agenda ?

Why? Because they are doing what almost every individual does. Looking out for numero uno. Creating their "legacy" that one thing they are remembered for. A political career is simply the vehicle to do so.

Originally Posted by mik

The country is stuffed, have a look around your house and ask yourself what in my house do we now still make here in australia , I'll sit here waitng for a reply while eating the only grapes I could get from the supermarket which came from america.

The Ford Fairlane parked in my driveway.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DreadlyST

and choose price over quality 4 out of 5 times.

the sad fact is, quite often imported goods are not only cheaper, but higher quality as well. local manufacturing has had to really sharpen the pencil to try to compete, and it has come at a cost.

people are so willing to automatically discount any product from asia, but all too often, it is often a better product these days, made in much higher technology facilities at a fraction of the cost.

its easy to say, 'support australian' but as mentioned a couple of times, the consumer no longer has the luxury of spending a bit extra. its too late for that. the solution needs govt policy change. you can't blame ave joe for buying what he can afford, even if that means imported products.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I was out at a farm on Saturday where onions were getting picked. There were around 50 people on the ground picking, 4 forklifts moving around plus us in 3 trucks. How many Australian's do you think were there? 3 Truck drivers and 4 Forklift drivers plus the property owner.

Its a good indication of why this country is in the position it is in. Australian people want everything for nothing and don't want to work to get it. In the old days if you wanted to own a home you had to work 7 days a week and bust your **** to get it. Today's generation think you can do the same by working 5 days a week and that it should be your right to do so.

Same goes for many small business owners who want to drive a new luxury car and live in a million dollar home. Its all good if you can afford it but many of them don't allow for the spirals and surges. They live beyond their means and it eventually catches up with them. For every small business that closes there are plenty starting up or growing in size. Its the smart ones who are careful with their dollars and live in modest houses and drive modest cars are the ones who survive and actually build themselves a decent retirement.

[TheSneakiness]

I agree with those who mention real estate. Especially residential.

I laugh at those analysts who say we've reached the bottom and the only way is up. We are NOWHERE near the bottom of the cycle. I look at some of the prices of 3 bedroom shacks in the inner suburbs of Brisbane and I think the asking price on some of these places is laughable, and its due to the high mortgages some fools apply for to even get in there.

Re: the Asian effect, I wholeheartedly agree on that point too however will keep my opinion to myself cause I feel really strongly about that too. (And will get banned)

[cobramania]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Same goes for many small business owners who want to drive a new luxury car and live in a million dollar home. Its all good if you can afford it but many of them don't allow for the spirals and surges. They live beyond their means and it eventually catches up with them. For every small business that closes there are plenty starting up or growing in size. Its the smart ones who are careful with their dollars and live in modest houses and drive modest cars are the ones who survive and actually build themselves a decent retirement.

Whilst I would somewhat agree, that's not always the case & is more a simplified generalisation.

Going back to my OP & mates circumstances, he lives in a small house, in a small rural community about 1 hours country drive out of town & away from his (former) workshop. The car he drives is a EB XR6 falcon he rebuilt about 6 years ago, the project cars I mentioned are mostly old Fords (he's a huge Ford fanatic), & were only ever worked on when time permitted, many parts for restoration came from wrecks he purchased for use as spares, he didn't ever spend big bucks on his project cars.

He's never lived beyond his means, & the smash repair industry is pretty stable, people drive cars & crash whether times are boom or bust.

His problem (& many other peoples), started when he got divorced & his wife took him to the cleaners. The trouble is, costs are continuing to rise & insurance companies have screwed prices down so much, that there's little or no profit at all, (as some have mentioned, most jobs are effectively love jobs or to fill your day after the bills have been payed).
When you're starting from scratch & not making any money/profit, one small increase in costs can be the death nell, nail in the coffin.

The service industry (most trades), can't increase their fees to the customer, because they won't pay, & will get the job done then refuse to pay full price, or at all, or they'll go to someone else who'll do it for less (even if it means they are doing the job below cost).

When I was working in my families electrical contracting business, the last 3-4 years before we gave it up, most time was spent chasing up payments for jobs done & we didn't/couldn't increase our fees, we absorbed all wholesale costs, & all wage increases for probably the last 6-7 years. It got tot the point we were just breaking even on most jobs & losing money on some, dad decided to retire & neither my brother or me wanted to continue with theses issues.

I can also tell you in my current job/industry (Air Conditioning), that generally installation fees haven't increased in about 15 - 20 years, my boss still charges customers the same price for an Air Conditioning install that he did 15 - 20 years ago, people just won't pay any more, but yet materials & wage costs have increased. My boss charges the industry standard for installs, some may charge $50 more or less, but generally no matter who does the install will charge the same price.

One what may seem like a very minor hiccup, cash flows gone, you don't have savings to back up & aren't making any profits & it's all over, the business is gone.

10 years ago, my boss worked 12 hour days, 7 days a week for 6 months & that'd get him through the winter off season period, the last few years we've been working 7-8 hour days, 5 days a week over summer & 1 day per week (if you're lucky) through winter. The money from the business doesn't pay for much more than his costs. His savings grace comes from the rent payments on his 6 or so investment houses he bought about 10 years ago, that's what pays his mortgages & what he lives off. He doesn't live in a big fancy house or drive new fancy cars either. If interest rates go up, he can/will sell 1 or 2 houses, if the **** falls out of the housing market too, he's gone, the business can't/won't support him.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by stevz

I think our ridiculously overcooked property market is to blame for a lot of this. When people need to mortgage themselves up to the tune of $600,000 for an average suburban home, it's obvious that there isn't going to be much disposable income left after servicing the mortgage payments.
Yet here we have again all the headlines screaming 'property boom' and people falling over themselves to pay ridiculously inflated prices - can people really be that stupid?
I personally believe that this country is headed for one hell of a major recession and with it will collapse the property market. There will be a lot of people in negative equity when this happens and only then will they start to see what pain really is. It's only a matter of when, not if...mark my words.

Yeah agree. but the flip side to the property market issue is lots of home owners that have bought 10 years or so ago have lots of equity and access to the lowest interest rates in history. If they choose to buy a car with that superlow interest rate, they will also buy it cheaper than what that product was 10 years ago thanks to greater competition.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by DreadlyST

As someone who came to Aus 6 years ago to escape the GFC in europe. I find that Aussies can be lazy whingers, and choose price over quality 4 out of 5 times. The customer service indrusty here is appaling, I cannot count the amount of times I have been ignored in a shop when I have intended on purchasing something, so have walked out due to crap service. Also the housing market is a joke, if you borrow $500K over 30 years to buy a house ( property value $150K location surcharge $350K ) you end up paying well over a million for your house.
Don't even get me started on the money racket that these 457 visas are all about, I am a a permanent resident of this fine land now and it has cost me somewhere in the region of $10-$15K between government fees, immigration fees, agent fees and other fees relating to the required documentation, asylum seekers come and the govt gives them money, where's the equality?

You have left europe cause things went bad. You are in a country where you where lazy Aussies exist. Can't find someone to take your money in a shop here and reckon our houses aren't good value even when they double in value every 10 years! You may want to try mars as your next destination. Oh by the way good choice driving a red st.

[BENT_8]

Judging by the comments in this thread it would appear that reality is beginning to dawn on people.
Australia is screwed, but don't just blame government policy or unions.
Weve had a fair crack at stuffing it up ourselves.

Australians are the most ignorant of self righteous people on the planet who unfortunately believe their own bull *****.
Most wont even acknowledge that they are contributing to the problems we face.

Take the bloke I was driving for.
He has a house with heated pool 10 minutes from the CBD, a shack at the beach, a speed boat, a 18ft cruiser, a bmw, a bravo ute, a land cruiser, a caravan, a camper trailer, the list goes on.
This guy is a single bloke, never been married, no kids.

He runs a transport company which survives off the contracts given to him by another company.
His trucks are death traps, so old that they require constant repairs.
He bought a new truck whilst I was with him, $47k for an old UD with no guts and a container strapped to the back, cut up as a tautliner.
When I was with him he employed 6 people as drivers.
3 were absolute bludgers who stole product, spent half the day in the deli buying pies and did half the work of the rest of us.
They were getting paid full time award wages and would only work 6 hrs a day.
I was casual, getting paid $3 an hour below the award and moving more freight in a fortnight than the other 3 would in a month.

One day I was in the bosses office and noticed a pie chart on his laptop of how each truck was earning him money.
The full timers made up a 1/3 of the chart, the other 2/3 was from the 3 casuals.
Anyway, I decided to put my case forward and ask for the award wage.
I was laid off within a month, so too were the other 2 casuals.

So there you have it, a brainless business owner, who doesn't go out of his way to seek his own contracts, who values lazy arsed employees who will accept peanuts as long as they don't have to work for it and who refuses to acknowledge a hard worker if it means paying them what they are worth, all the while refusing to offload any of his toys to invest in his business.

He is now on the verge of selling up as the party is over.

Greed and stupidity is killing this country!!!

[Dash_XR]

That scenario is so common. Our new owner did the same thing. Buys good business on the up, then puts no effort in and wonders what happened.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Judging by the comments in this thread it would appear that reality is beginning to dawn on people.
Australia is screwed, but don't just blame government policy or unions.
Weve had a fair crack at stuffing it up ourselves.

Australians are the most ignorant of self righteous people on the planet who unfortunately believe their own bull *****.
Most wont even acknowledge that they are contributing to the problems we face.

Take the bloke I was driving for.
He has a house with heated pool 10 minutes from the CBD, a shack at the beach, a speed boat, a 18ft cruiser, a bmw, a bravo ute, a land cruiser, a caravan, a camper trailer, the list goes on.
This guy is a single bloke, never been married, no kids.

He runs a transport company which survives off the contracts given to him by another company.
His trucks are death traps, so old that they require constant repairs.
He bought a new truck whilst I was with him, $47k for an old UD with no guts and a container strapped to the back, cut up as a tautliner.
When I was with him he employed 6 people as drivers.
3 were absolute bludgers who stole product, spent half the day in the deli buying pies and did half the work of the rest of us.
They were getting paid full time award wages and would only work 6 hrs a day.
I was casual, getting paid $3 an hour below the award and moving more freight in a fortnight than the other 3 would in a month.

One day I was in the bosses office and noticed a pie chart on his laptop of how each truck was earning him money.
The full timers made up a 1/3 of the chart, the other 2/3 was from the 3 casuals.
Anyway, I decided to put my case forward and ask for the award wage.
I was laid off within a month, so too were the other 2 casuals.

So there you have it, a brainless business owner, who doesn't go out of his way to seek his own contracts, who values lazy arsed employees who will accept peanuts as long as they don't have to work for it and who refuses to acknowledge a hard worker if it means paying them what they are worth, all the while refusing to offload any of his toys to invest in his business.

He is now on the verge of selling up as the party is over.

Greed and stupidity is killing this country!!!

This type of business case happens everywhere in the world not just australia. You're a hard worker and there are lots of companies that look at performance based employees. You will find happiness out there. Just keep looking. Chin up mate. Not every boss of every company in australia is the same and the country will not die in the **** cause of a couple of system rooters.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Yeah agree. but the flip side to the property market issue is lots of home owners that have bought 10 years or so ago have lots of equity and access to the lowest interest rates in history. If they choose to buy a car with that superlow interest rate, they will also buy it cheaper than what that product was 10 years ago thanks to greater competition.

Yes but what happens to this equity when property values crash back down to earth? Those who were silly enough to blow it on cars and other luxury items will be in a bit of a pickle...

The Australian housing market would have to be the biggest ponzi scheme ever known to man and is constantly being inflated by banks, real estate agents, developers and anyone else with a vested interest. . The fact that we have the highest wage to price ratio in the world and essentially the most overpriced property in the world should be ringing alarm bells, yet amazingly people remain oblivious to it.

When it all eventually comes crashing down, I will be there with my bucket of popcorn watching the fireworks.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by stevz

Yes but what happens to this equity when property values crash back down to earth? Those who were silly enough to blow it on cars and other luxury items will be in a bit of a pickle...

The Australian housing market would have to be the biggest ponzi scheme ever known to man and is constantly being inflated by banks, real estate agents, developers and anyone else with a vested interest. . The fact that we have the highest wage to price ratio in the world and essentially the most overpriced property in the world should be ringing alarm bells, yet amazingly people remain oblivious to it.

When it all eventually comes crashing down, I will be there with my bucket of popcorn watching the fireworks.

I was saying the same thing ten years ago.......and nothing has happened yet.

[Stealth00]

So what do you suggest - not buy a house - live in a tent?

[dmat2391]

Nah!!!! tents are over priced and ready for a collapse....get yourself back into a cave. People have been predicting the end of the world for since the beginning. Yes there will be a slow down, just like there will be an upturn. I've not seen a depression but the 1989 recession we had to have felt it lasted for ever.... then it didn't. We're not stuffed, when you wonder where your next meal comes from or if you'll live to see tomorrow that's what stuffed really is. Not the B.S. we complain about here.

[Stealth00]

Nah!!!! tents are over priced and ready for a collapse....

A classic..

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by stevz

Yes but what happens to this equity when property values crash back down to earth? Those who were silly enough to blow it on cars and other luxury items will be in a bit of a pickle...

The Australian housing market would have to be the biggest ponzi scheme ever known to man and is constantly being inflated by banks, real estate agents, developers and anyone else with a vested interest. . The fact that we have the highest wage to price ratio in the world and essentially the most overpriced property in the world should be ringing alarm bells, yet amazingly people remain oblivious to it.

When it all eventually comes crashing down, I will be there with my bucket of popcorn watching the fireworks.

People have been saying "house prices too high and it will all come crashing down. They said it before the recession in the 90's and were saying the same thing about the Australian housing market 4 years ago when the GFC hit. Well Guess what??? We're still waiting for it to come crashing down aren't we. I will put it to the sceptics this way. If you had a reasonable deposit now, would you rather buy a house today or in 10 years time. If the answer is today cause it will be too dear in 10 years time well then this theory about inflated prices today is just crud.

[GTPete]

The price of land is the killer. How a country the size of Australia has land prices like we do Ill never understand. We have so much available space. Land should be cheap as, in fact every Australian with over 100 years of family history contributing to this countries growth should be gifted a free block of Aussie soil. That will get the place going forward.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It’s a sad fact that MOST small businesses in Australia Fail. I did small business Accounting & Tax for over a decade, and it was a universal problem. A person can be a brilliant <insert trade here>, but a poor manager and often a hopeless Commercial Manager. So many have absolutely no clue about profit margins and marketing, they just open their doors and expect to make money.
Panel beaters face an especially tough time. Their income is dominated by insurance work, and that means doing a job for the cheapest possible price, which is hard if you have any ethics or pride.

I'm climbing on my same old soap box here, but WA is still mostly going along fine. If anything the disparity in the 2-speed economy is growing. The Mining & carbon tax has stalled a lot of projects, but I expect that to improve next year. Keeping in mind that if the AUD continues to slide against the greenback, that is GOOD news for exporters. I don’t think it would still be technically called a mining boom, but there is still sustained demand for commodities. The government needs to reduce our reliance on imports and boost manufacturing in NSW & Victoria. That would be a win-win for everyone. It really ***** me to tears to work on massive projects where thousands of tonnes of (****, poor quality) steel is being shipped in from China, when it could have been more easily milled in SA or NSW. The WA government doesn’t give a crap, cos we haven’t had a steel mill for yonks, but the Feds should do something to limit the imports.
They also need to do something to stop the wholesale rorting of the 457 visas. Again, I worked on a massive project where the owners had been allowed to bring in thousands of Chinese workers. If they were any indication, China won’t be ruling the world any time soon. Slow, lazy, incompetent, dishonest, and with trade “qualifications” that they probably bought on the internet. But hey, they were CHEAP. The union that should have been protecting Australian workers got bought off. The company paid for all its Chinese workers to be fully paid up members, thereby buying the union’s silence.

So why isn't this being plastered all over the media?

Simple, because the media reports what it's told to report....

[Spinner77]

China won’t be ruling the world any time soon. Slow, lazy, incompetent, dishonest, and with trade “qualifications” that they probably bought on the internet. But hey, they were CHEAP.

There is an old Communist joke I have heard from both Russians and Chinese:

"We pretend to work. And you pretend to pay us."

[irish2]

Originally Posted by mik

The country is stuffed, have a look around your house and ask yourself what in my house do we now still make here in australia , I'll sit here waitng for a reply while eating the only grapes I could get from the supermarket which came from america.

I sit on my Aussie made couch, drinking Aussie beer, looking at my Chinese computer. I will go to my Aussie made fridge, where I will then make a meal made entirely from Aussie food stuffs. If it is out of season and imported, I don't buy it (grapes included). After sleeping on my Aussie made bed and mattress, I then put on my Aussie made boots, and drive to work in my Aussie built car, with Japanese tyres.

Seriously if everyone took a short time to find what products are Australian then we would be losing less jobs overseas. I have made the effort to support Aussie products in everything from Laundry detergent to toilet paper. It is not hard and can make a big difference to the economy. Surprisingly the cheapest item on the shelf is often the Aussie made one.

Americans have a buy American mentality. Why can't we here.

[dmat2391]

and I would add that in many cases the Aussie stuff is superior to the overseas stuff.
when I was doing the baskin and robins installs in sydney I couldn't get over the poor quality of the U.S stainless items the franchisees were required to install. The welds a disgrace and the "stainless" just enough.
That's from a shopfitter that only worked in timber and ali and only welded mild steal once in my life

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Panel beaters face an especially tough time. Their income is dominated by insurance work, and that means doing a job for the cheapest possible price, which is hard if you have any ethics or pride.

And why is that? For many years, panel beaters used insurance jobs for easy profit. Remember the days of one quote for private jobs and another, heavily inflated one for insurance?