NBN Fibre to the Node (FTTN) - What does it mean to us?

[ebxr8240]

NBN IS only as good as the modem on the end of it ...

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by pitrack_1

Burnz,


Yes, but the part I damaged was outside (the end of) of the conduit. Sorry I didn't take a photo to show you.


Agreed more flexible, not subject to corrosion, short circuits, etc. But somewhat more delicate to crimping damage, at least in my experience.


OK, must be the 1GBit LAN connection I was referring to. But the connection from the 1Gbit LAN to the router (and phone?)is via network cable (CAT5/6), which would be copper? That's all I meant...


Ahhh, thanks, that makes sense. I assume one of the boxes does the conversion from analogue signal to the digital/IP so 'normal' phones can be plugged in? They don't have a special phone, just 'normal' DECT phones.


Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Now it's just for me to pay the bill to have it fixed...

Firstly, you opened a box that you have no right to open and you damaged the fibre. Sorry, that is no ones fault but yours. You shouldn't touch anything you don't know about and the fact you broke it proves that.
A commercial patch lead inside a premises is a lot less likely to be damaged than kms of twisted pair cable in the street. Fibre isn't affected by lightning, corrosion and other factors that affect copper, and while copper jointing is faster, you won't have 1000 pair fibre cables requiring jointing which means fibre jointing of a typical cable will be quicker.

[vevapower]

I've got both NBN and Netflix and it takes approx 3 - 5 secs to load any Netflix show/movie.

When I speed test my NBN connection it averages about 97 mb per sec...

My download spees peaks around 15 - 18 mb per sec

I'm with iinet and pay $13 per month for Netflix and Netflix is not included in my monthly data allowance.

I pay about $60 per month for top iinet NBN

I also have the house completely networked (4 panels, 1 pc 3 laptops, 3 tablets, 3 phones) via Hills Hub and a NAS.

Here's my wireless speed from furthest wifi point from router in upstairs back room. testes on my Samsung Note 4

[Ruination]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

NBN IS only as good as the modem on the end of it ...

Wrong.
With NBN you don't need to attach any "Modem"
NBN provide you with a futureproof box called the Network Termination Device (NTD) mounted to a wall inside your house (typically in your garage) and is fibre all the way. Optic Fibre cabling is capable of 10.3125Gbit/s data transfer speeds.

In all honestly, our 100Mbit/s connection speeds are whimsical to what its actually possible.

[Ruination]

Done via Wifi also.
If connected straight to the NBN NTD. it sits on 99/39.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Ruination

image

Done via Wifi also.
If connected straight to the NBN NTD. it sits on 99/39.

It's at this point I go outside, look to the heavens and scream, damn you Malcoml Turnbull, damn you to hell for your rape of the nbn we could have had.

[lotus]

Originally Posted by Havoc

but thats what they do best now solutions rather then looking forward. By the time fiber to the node is finished they will have to dig up all the ******* copper lines from the node to the houses anyway how ******* stupid can you get.

I think you will find the difference between FTTP and FTTN is that FTTP has fibre from the telephone exchange to the house where FTTN has fibre to the Node and still uses the copper cable from the exchang(main cable) to the cross connection point (Pillar)then goes through the Node, back to the pillar and then on the cable to your house (distribution cable).

[Ruination]

Originally Posted by Ruination

image

Done via Wifi also.
If connected straight to the NBN NTD. it sits on 99/39.

Found out that test was done when my brother was downloading something.

Here is a test via WIFI, with no interference from other PCs

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by lotus

I think you will find the difference between FTTP and FTTN is that FTTP has fibre from the telephone exchange to the house where FTTN has fibre to the Node and still uses the copper cable from the exchang(main cable) to the cross connection point (Pillar)then goes through the Node, back to the pillar and then on the cable to your house (distribution cable).

Nope
FTTN has fibre from exchange (actually pop) to node then copper from node to house.

[lotus]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

Nope
FTTN has fibre from exchange (actually pop) to node then copper from node to house.

FTTN does have fibre from the exchange to the Node but it is used for the speed. They still have to have the cable from the exchange through the Node and then to the house.

[Franco Cozzo]

So pretty much FTTN is going to shorten up your copper cable length?

In my case its about 2000m of cable to my exchange (roughly), the node is out on the street so it may reduce that to say 250m?

[lotus]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

So pretty much FTTN is going to shorten up your copper cable length?

In my case its about 2000m of cable to my exchange (roughly), the node is out on the street so it may reduce that to say 250m?

The copper length will stay the same. In basic terms the Node boosts the signal to get your speed on the copper pair.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

So pretty much FTTN is going to shorten up your copper cable length?

In my case its about 2000m of cable to my exchange (roughly), the node is out on the street so it may reduce that to say 250m?

Yes. Your copper run will be significantly shorter. Which is essentially the same as the Tophats that telstra have been dotting around the place in the past years anyway.

[lotus]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Yes. Your copper run will be significantly shorter. Which is essentially the same as the Tophats that telstra have been dotting around the place in the past years anyway.

image

Top Hats, ISAMS & cabnets are all fibre fed but are totally different systems to NBN.
I do not know the complexities of the FTTN system but what I do know is that the copper from the exchange will still be used at this stage.
I know this as I have been installing cables from the pillars to the Node cabnets for the last 2-3 mths.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by lotus

Top Hats, ISAMS & cabnets are all fibre fed but are totally different systems to NBN.
I do not know the complexities of the FTTN system but what I do know is that the copper from the exchange will still be used at this stage.
I know this as I have been installing cables from the pillars to the Node cabnets for the last 2-3 mths.

The pillars have both the main cable from the exchange which won't be used any longer as well as the distribution cables to the houses that will be used. Based on the sizes of many DAs, there will also be nodes installed away from current pillar locations.
FTTN will not use copper from telephone exchanges.
What exactly do you think the copper from the telephone exchange would be used for?
You may be dragging cables in from pillar to cabinet but that doesn't mean you know what is going on.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

So pretty much FTTN is going to shorten up your copper cable length?

In my case its about 2000m of cable to my exchange (roughly), the node is out on the street so it may reduce that to say 250m?

Yep. The same crappy distribution cable that a majority of faults are in will remain. Telstra are jumping for joy because they get 2 bites at the cherry, 1 to sell the cable to NBN, then a second bite to maintain the copper, because after all, who has the staff who can maintain it?
Then you have the 60,000+ cabinets about to sit outside people's properties with the power, batteries and other associated crap.

[lotus]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

The pillars have both the main cable from the exchange which won't be used any longer as well as the distribution cables to the houses that will be used. Based on the sizes of many DAs, there will also be nodes installed away from current pillar locations.
FTTN will not use copper from telephone exchanges.
What exactly do you think the copper from the telephone exchange would be used for?
You may be dragging cables in from pillar to cabinet but that doesn't mean you know what is going on.

You are right, I might not know whats going on but when you have a cable for feed and one for return what do you think the feed cable is going to connect to.
Nodes will be at every pillar and extra nodes & pillars installed depending on the distance from the existing pillars.
Did you ever think that mabye you do't know how this system actually works.

[Binny]

We have been connected to one of the Telstra "Top hats" for about 2 1/2 years. For 12 months before that we were living off mobile internet and being told no ports were available.

When it was announced that we were going to be one of the first two areas in SEQ to get NBN Telstra dropped leaflets saying they were making ADSL2 available (Top Hats). I bent over and took out a contract with them as living off mobile internet was painful. As the cabinet is nearby its been pretty good, initially I was getting 24Mbit line sync, now its around 18-19 and I get at least 16 download speed consistently. For the second half of last year it was woeful during peak, dropping to about 2Mbit but it is consistently 16 now any time.

The other half of my suburb that already had cable got FTTP over time, then the federal election happened and my half got wiped off the roll-out map. Later we were marked as "ground works are under way". I just checked recently and we are again wiped off the roll-out map completely. On the map my development area is surrounded by NBN and we are a blank hole in the middle. If you go by the map even the bushes and the empty paddocks have NBN haha. I suspect at some point our top hat will be renamed as FTTN and that will be it. I hope not but I become very cynical about the whole thing.

My boss lives in a decent established suburb in the north side of Brisbane. His house is an existing house that has had ADSL before, his neighbours currently have ADSL2. Every company he tries with comes back and says no ports are available. After months of arguing with Telstra about what they are going to do about it they have told him they will not be able to do anything for at least 2-3 years! They have obviously put a spending freeze on any new infrastructure because of the NBN even if that suburb is not getting it for years. What a joke.

[Mr Hardware]

I'm confused lotus. Are you saying that Fibre to the Node is actually Copper to the Node? If so, how is this not just PSTN?

[lotus]

Ok I will try to explain this system as it stands now. As I said before I don't know the complexities of FTTN as I am not an expert. There are people smarter than me who design these things.
As far as I am aware all internet ( what ever that may be) will feed through the fibre to the node and then go through the pillar to your house. But most of us have a normal phone service (dial tone). For whatever reason (technically or regularty) the fibre will not support dial tone so therefore the main cable from the exchange has to provides this. I believe if you have a line that does not have dial tone (naked DSL, ect) your line will come through the fibre. If the lines from the pillar are further than approx 450mts a new pillar and node have to be established to provide the speed wanted by NBN.
At a later date when dial tone can be supported by the fibre then the main cables will become redundant.

As for the cable from the pillar to the house. Think of it as when you buy a second hand car. You want a certificate that states this car is of a acceptable condition for it to be used on the roads.
NBN will also want some sort of certificate from Telstra that this network will accept the systems it wants to provide to the customer.

As for Telstra maintaining this part of the network. NBN & Telstra are two seperate companies so Telstra will have win the contract for the maintance.

As I said at the start this is how it is now but with technoligy advancing so quickly who knows where it will go.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by lotus

You are right, I might not know whats going on but when you have a cable for feed and one for return what do you think the feed cable is going to connect to.
Nodes will be at every pillar and extra nodes & pillars installed depending on the distance from the existing pillars.
Did you ever think that mabye you do't know how this system actually works.

I know there has been a lot of conjecture on how voice is going to be provided under the FTTN mess, however http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/...fact-sheet.pdf clearly indicates fibre from exchange to Node then copper to pillar and house.
If they do go down this path then Telstra cant decommission any of their exchanges, and that is something Ill be very surprised if they let stand.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by lotus

As for Telstra maintaining this part of the network. NBN & Telstra are two seperate companies so Telstra will have win the contract for the maintance.

As I said at the start this is how it is now but with technoligy advancing so quickly who knows where it will go.

There aren't too many companies around with the nationwide reach and the required skills of Telstra.


As for the big point about whether or not FTTN will be providing analogue voice service via the UNI-V ports on the NTD, I guess we have to wait for the first live FTTN areas.
All media releases and publicity only talks about the "last mile" being copper. Nothing about the "first mile".
If you are correct, then Malcolm Turnbull has sold us an even bigger pile of crap than first thought.


At least we can all agree FTTP meant no more copper.

[lotus]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

I know there has been a lot of conjecture on how voice is going to be provided under the FTTN mess, however http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/...fact-sheet.pdf clearly indicates fibre from exchange to Node then copper to pillar and house.
If they do go down this path then Telstra cant decommission any of their exchanges, and that is something Ill be very surprised if they let stand.

They could eventually decomission main cables where FTTP is being used. That is when they can run all all services over fibre. Telstra have more than just phone lines running through their cables.

Like I said until fibre can support dial tone for the FTTN main cables are here to stay.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by lotus

They could eventually decomission main cables where FTTP is being used. That is when they can run all all services over fibre. Telstra have more than just phone lines running through their cables.

Like I said until fibre can support dial tone for the FTTN main cables are here to stay.

FTTP meant no copper was required for a normal telephone service. One of the uni v ports is used for each line. FTTN can do it, but it is more complicated and is where the discussion is happening.

Further reading has identified that the areas in Telstra' part of the FTTN trial is where the copper from the exchange is being used, ie cable in and cable out.

[burnz]

Gosford and most of the central coast has no copper line's, pulled out sold to simms metal.
I have fiber to the exchange, that has fiber to Sydney/melb/bris.

[NTF6]

I don't know how Telstra can think that that two customers paying the same money but 1 getting 2Mbs download speed and the other getting 96Mbs is acceptable...!!!!

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by NTF6

I don't know how Telstra can think that that two customers paying the same money but 1 getting 2Mbs download speed and the other getting 96Mbs is acceptable...!!!!

I think you'll find their answer will be that the cost is for the data limit because that's really the only consistent thing they've got control over and can be a constant.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Simple6

I think you'll find their answer will be that the cost is for the data limit because that's really the only consistent thing they've got control over and can be a constant.

This is why Australians are the worst for pirating movies and TV shows, crap speeds that have trouble streaming standard definition video and until recently a lack of decent sources for legally purchasing online content.

[EgoFG]

Just my 2c on FTTN vss FTTP (I am in FTTP area - please ignore any bias)

The fastest NBN offers at the moment is 100mbps
Copper can easily deliver this.
Cat6a/Cat6e can do 100 times that speed over 100meters.
Unless we get NBN speeds ten times faster, then there is no advantage to FTTP in comms speed.
The only time I go anywhere the 100mbps is running speedtest - even with 4 streaming TV channels, I do not see a limit.

Yes, FTTP is technically superior, and much better future proofing.
But your average punter will not even notice the difference - until 4k TV streaming is the norm - currently most streaming users do not even use HD (IMEO).

It is quite likely that we will hit the life expectancy of the copper before we max it out in terms of transfer speed.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

It is quite likely that we will hit the life expectancy of the copper before we max it out in terms of transfer speed.

Without even going into the short sightedness of the FTTN where over 60,000 cabinets are going to be sat outside people's homes, the power consumption of them as well as the batteries in these cabinets that will need to be replaced every 5 to 10 years, where getting fibre extended from a node to your house at $$$ will not allow the speeds that a FTTP fibre will allow, the biggest issue is the limits of the copper will be hit within 5 to 10 years.
Think how short a time ago it was that dial up was screaming at 56k and well pittied those stuck on 33-6k modems. Then ISDN was avai
Able and speeds of 128k was available. Then ADSL, and before long ADSL2+ was out. The copper in the ground is the weak link yet Telstra have managed to, by hook and by crook, keep it going. The design of the FTTN is going to mean that FTTP in those area will never happen.
It would be better to roll out fixed wireless into the area that have no broadband services now rather than drop these nodes in.