Holden staff granted 22% pay rise.......

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Angeldust

honestly, whats the incentive at all in living in australia, when your chosen prefession leads to nothing but a struggle to pay the fking bills and not much else.

why not get better qualified if you want more money?

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by davway

If it wasnt for Unions, youd be getting $8hr, no sick leave, no annual leave, no breaks, no OHS - nothing.

Wow... just wow.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by davway

If it wasnt for Unions, youd be getting $8hr, no sick leave, no annual leave, no breaks, no OHS - nothing.

in years gone by, sure, they helped get these things (again, all for the employee) but what have they done to help the community as a whole in the last 20years?

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by davway

If it wasnt for Unions, youd be getting $8hr, no sick leave, no annual leave, no breaks, no OHS - nothing.

Sounds like the recipe that has made China the industrial powerhouse of the world. No I wouldn't like to work that way either, but just sayin'.

[jpd80]

f it wasn't for financial support from the government, our whole car industry would be swallowed up by Thailand and Korea...

[gtfpv]

yep i agree that hthese handouts are entirely unnecessary , and the greed of these people on less than 1k per week is disgusting , im off to china to earn some real respectful money , sick of ripping our country off . LOL .

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

yep i agree that hthese handouts are entirely unnecessary , and the greed of these people on less than 1k per week is disgusting , im off to china to earn some real respectful money , sick of ripping our country off . LOL .

The sad part is that Australian consumers are overwhelmingly voting with their wallets,
the local industry is now facing some very hard questions and the main one is:
After all the government subsidies and purchases of Australian made product,
what happens when the Australian buyer still does not support the local industry, what then?

[MITCHAY]

Good for them and hopefully Holden have done all sums correctly so it doesn't but them in a bad financial position later on.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

After all the government subsidies and purchases of Australian made product,
what happens when the Australian buyer still does not support the local industry, what then?

Its a fleet vehicle by and large. My question is, why subsidise a vehicle you arent going to buy at the various levels of government?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by b0son

Its a fleet vehicle by and large. My question is, why subsidise a vehicle you arent going to buy at the various levels of government?

Up until recently, a lot of those fleet sales included user chooser novated lease buyers.
A lot of the time the Government used to buy fleets from Ford and Holden at low prices,
selling them for basically the cost they were bought for, providing people lwith ow cost
low kilometre vehicles. It was seen as a way of helping voters and local car makers without significant cost...

[Brazen]

I think its fair that these guys get a reasonable wage, $1000 a week BEFORE tax doesnt go far at all with kids and a mortgage....especially nowadays. In fact they probably couldnt really survive on that.

And the job isnt the most pleasant thing in the world, they are working in a factory - not some nice airconditioned office building.

As much as I want to see a competitive Australia, I also want to see honest hard-working people being able to provide a comfortable life for their families.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The lowest rate (non apprentice) is currently N21 classification which was $930 per week as of 15 Nov 2010 (probably now 3% higher), this is for vehicle assemblers. For non trade employees (non supervisory etc), it goes up to N33 classification, which was $1093 per week as of Nov. 2010

N21 $930.10
N22 $954.00
N23 $977.60
N31 $1,025.80
N32 $1,031.40
N33 $1,093.10

N33's are your die setters, control room operators, qa audit etc etc.

where did you get those wages from??
$930 for a general hand/labourer..that would be casual not full time..
a brickies labourer is on a little more than that but thats casual/seasonal, and they earn it too.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by burnz

where did you get those wages from??
$930 for a general hand/labourer..that would be casual not full time..
a brickies labourer is on a little more than that but thats casual/seasonal, and they earn it too.

That would be before tax.

Ford production workers generally make over $1000 a week before tax.

[robbo/region15]

Originally Posted by davway

If it wasnt for Unions, youd be getting $8hr, no sick leave, no annual leave, no breaks, no OHS - nothing.

I get Boris Yeltsin dancing image in my head ,so 80's that post...............

[robbo/region15]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The sad part is that Australian consumers are overwhelmingly voting with their wallets,
the local industry is now facing some very hard questions and the main one is:
After all the government subsidies and purchases of Australian made product,
what happens when the Australian buyer still does not support the local industry, what then?

Always remember Peeps,Tiers 1,2,3, Supliers may not even produce that component here in Oz,it comes via Ship from the Orient.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by burnz

where did you get those wages from??
$930 for a general hand/labourer..that would be casual not full time..
a brickies labourer is on a little more than that but thats casual/seasonal, and they earn it too.

Thats from their 2008 EBA, which also includes the fact that from 2008 onwards they continued to have pay rises. Any reduction in actual pay they were receiving was due to the fact that they were working less hours (when working the alternating shift), which in most cases is a no brainer.

Yes it does sound alot, but you go to remember the circle of life that those wages achieve. Without the high wages, these people wouldnt be able to buy a cruze or commodore at reduced rates via the employee purchase program. Without the increased sales that the EPP achieves, Holden wouldnt be able to highlight the high sales volumes as a means to extract more money from the government. Without more money from the government, Holden wouldn't be ina position to pay these employees these wages.

[Gobes32]

It may seem like a high wage, but I would rather earn $12 an hour and houses were under 100k..........

If you take home $790 a week and your 220k mortgage
costs you $400 a week, then A, you wouldn't qualify for the loan in the first place, and B, you are really cutting things fine when you pay for groceries, etc. Once upon time you worked at Ford because it paid well and there heaps of overtime and job security, now everyone works 4 day weeks on reduced pay and lives in constant fear for their job, it sucks, and you wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[Jim Goose]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-1...herill/3833118

A report warns up to 16,000 jobs would be lost overall if Holden were to shut its plant at Elizabeth in northern Adelaide.

The South Australian Government commissioned the report to evaluate Holden's contribution to the local economy.

Premier Jay Weatherill tabled the report in State Parliament, painting a grim outlook for South Australia without the car maker's presence.

"The closure of Holden would, it has been estimated, cause the loss of between 6,000 and 16,000 jobs in the state, reduced the value of economic activity by between $0.5 billion and $1.5 billion and a decline in state taxation revenue of between $25 million and $83 million," he said.

Holden is negotiating to get more money from both the SA and Federal Governments to support its operations.

Mr Weatherill says the economic benefit of Holden to the SA economy is crystal clear and the car maker will be supported.

"There will be co-investment from the Government to continue car making in this state," he said.

"We have received Holden's final submission. Following consideration by Government the proposal will be considered by the board of GM (General Motors) in Detroit. The Government will provide more information once the proposal has been considered by the board."

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by b0son

why not get better qualified if you want more money?

Incentive for this is ZERO!
Means tested Flood taxes, Means tested Medi-care rebate (the latest kick in the guts) massive income tax rate percentage, and the almighty carbon tax.
There is more incentive to be on the bottom tier wage wise or on the dole!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think its fair that these guys get a reasonable wage, $1000 a week BEFORE tax doesnt go far at all with kids and a mortgage....especially nowadays. In fact they probably couldnt really survive on that.

it is manageable. if you are on that coin, your wife will be getting assistance from the govt for the kids. (family allowance, family tax benefit a and b). within your means you can actually save money and be able to afford nice cars (like a fg xr6) and go on holidays every year. it might mean you don't have all the latest and greatest gizmo's and whatnot though, or you have to wait a bit etc etc and not get everything as soon as it hits the market.

the way some people have been carrying on about 'poor holden workers' i thought they must've been on about 2/3rds of that coin. its great if you are on more than that, but believe me when i tell you, there are plenty of industries on about the same.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Incentive for this is ZERO!
Means tested Flood taxes, Means tested Medi-care rebate (the latest kick in the guts) massive income tax rate percentage, and the almighty carbon tax.
There is more incentive to be on the bottom tier wage wise or on the dole!

No offense, but you really really really really need to speak to some sort of accoutant that can help you with your money, beucase you're not understanding it very well at the moment!! Just a thought, take it or leave it..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Incentive for this is ZERO!
Means tested Flood taxes, Means tested Medi-care rebate (the latest kick in the guts) massive income tax rate percentage, and the almighty carbon tax.
There is more incentive to be on the bottom tier wage wise or on the dole!

Tax is progressive, you only pay higher rates on the extra you earn, not the whole lot..

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-1...herill/3833118

Gee, that report looks like it was created by some illiterate (or by the flip of a coin). Imagine writing a report where your range between best case differs to the worst case by about 3 times. Its like a doctor diagnosing a patient and not being able to decide if he has pimples or is dead.

Probably the worst thing the report does say is the extremely poor productivity of the workers. If reducing jobs by 6000 (16000) causes a loss in economic activity of $1/2 billion ($1.5 billion), then each worker is only accounting for approx. $83,000 in economic activity, as opposed to the average australian worker who accounts for approx. $130,000 in economic activity.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Gee, that report looks like it was created by some illiterate (or by the flip of a coin). Imagine writing a report where your range between best case differs to the worst case by about 3 times. Its like a doctor diagnosing a patient and not being able to decide if he has pimples or is dead.

Probably the worst thing the report does say is the extremely poor productivity of the workers. If reducing jobs by 6000 (16000) causes a loss in economic activity of $1/2 billion ($1.5 billion), then each worker is only accounting for approx. $83,000 in economic activity, as opposed to the average australian worker who accounts for approx. $130,000 in economic activity.

I know it doesn't help but building the wrong types of cars prevents that income from being much greater.

[Angeldust]

Originally Posted by b0son

why not get better qualified if you want more money?

Ok, somewhat off topic. BUT.. i have a degree in Chemisrty, i work in my professional field.

I cannot get any more qualififcations to earn more in my chosen field.

I cannot do overtime or extra work (backyard etc((its illegal!))) in my field.

I*m stuck earning a **** 65K a year, which is the end of the road for me. (its still a lot better than some that earn less, i agree). And it took me a looong journey to get to that 65K a year (10years experience+3 years Uni) etc.

Please, what qualifications should i get now, to get out of the 65K middle income hole im stuck in???


Edit. I was earning more when i left school in the mid 90's as a labourer in a panelshop. Ie, i was on 26K a year but everything was almost 3x cheaper than now. So in reality, i have already gone backwards. (thx Mr Howard.)


lol

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Incentive for this is ZERO!
Means tested Flood taxes, Means tested Medi-care rebate (the latest kick in the guts) massive income tax rate percentage, and the almighty carbon tax.
There is more incentive to be on the bottom tier wage wise or on the dole!

Type. Delete. Type. Delete.

+1

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by prydey

in years gone by, sure, they helped get these things (again, all for the employee) but what have they done to help the community as a whole in the last 20years?

they have done more than their fair share helping the communities in beijing and dehli

oh wait, back in 98 (still within the 20 years), they supplied free alcohol to a strike at our workplace - giving alcohol to passionate boof heads . . . that must be a great move for the community

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Angeldust

Please, what qualifications should i get now, to get out of the 65K middle income hole im stuck in???

Take your pick. Either related (eg. quality management, then work in the pharmaceutical industry), or something different altogether (eg. a different degree).

Dont tell me you have no options, I used to be in the lab too, and left for a different industry for more money.

[Reaper8]

our union is great, they got us a 20c pay rise and we only had to forfit out paid meal break, a 50% payment for our licence every year and a few other things. they did a great job NOT.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by Reaper8

our union is great, they got us a 20c pay rise and we only had to forfit out paid meal break, a 50% payment for our licence every year and a few other things. they did a great job NOT.

And the Union is only as strong as its weakest member.
If no one is willing to stand up and walk, what do you expect to happen.
Unity IS strength and without it, you get what you get.
If the company knows the Union is weak, you'll get jack all.