You poor Victorians!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

someone said before that we don't have these in vic but i always see them pretty common

You'll notice that Vic has cameras stating that there are cameras in the area (mind you most of the time the sign is on the side there are no cameras). The signs that are being mentioned are actually telling you there is a speed camera a head. You have to be in another world to get pinged by them. But I believe QLD is beginning to do a few shifties.

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by vztrt

You'll notice that Vic has cameras stating that there are cameras in the area (mind you most of the time the sign is on the side there are no cameras). The signs that are being mentioned are actually telling you there is a speed camera a head. You have to be in another world to get pinged by them. But I believe QLD is beginning to do a few shifties.

I've seen these signs, but can never see the darn camera around :

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by vztrt

You'll notice that Vic has cameras stating that there are cameras in the area (mind you most of the time the sign is on the side there are no cameras). The signs that are being mentioned are actually telling you there is a speed camera a head. You have to be in another world to get pinged by them. But I believe QLD is beginning to do a few shifties.

i've found those signs in vic you're refering to are usually for red light cameras.. They usually read "road safety cameras operate in this area".

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I was just flicking through an old wheels magazine - July 1967, and came across an interesting article "The Suicidal Sixties" which lamented the introduction of blanket 60mph speed limits in NSW. NSW was one of the first states to introduce the blanket limit, with wheels predicting the other states will almost certainly follow suit - with the exception of Victoria, "which has firmly set its face against an outright speed limit"

Back then there was a "'driver onus' limit of 50mph, under which you may be charged with driving dangerously if doing more than that speed, and the onus is on you to prove you were driving safely", a situation which Victoria "considers ideal"

How things have changed!! Now from what I can tell Victoria is the most overpoliced state in the country for speed. Think I was born too late....

Remember the road toll back then, well for 1973/4 was over 1000 JUST for Victoria, now we skirt around 300 deaths per year, this has been bought about by a whole range of satey aspects to cars and by the introduction of various laws, a couple being .05 and seatbelts, but there are heaps more.

Probably best you were born after then as you might not have survived like a lot of my close friends didn't.

[kyro_02]

i'm in vic, i lost 6 points in 1 night ( a few years ago when i was on my p plates) with only 5 points allowed

it wasn't due to speeding, but, i managed on a 1 point agreement for 12 months, i was surprised i didn't get another fine... but if i did i would have lost it for 6 months

victoria, you don't want to live here, trust me...

[left]

Originally Posted by kyro_02

victoria, you don't want to live here, trust me...

need some help packing? Im free Sunday ;)

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Remember the road toll back then, well for 1973/4 was over 1000 JUST for Victoria, now we skirt around 300 deaths per year, this has been bought about by a whole range of satey aspects to cars and by the introduction of various laws, a couple being .05 and seatbelts, but there are heaps more.

Probably best you were born after then as you might not have survived like a lot of my close friends didn't.

That is a bad number Trev, but as you alluded to safety aspects of cars, they are so much more safer now, so what is really causing the 300 deaths we record each year, is it really speed, does speed really kill, is any data available to us, of the deaths that are occuring how many of them are at what speed level, what if more people are dying travelling at 60-80km/h then how can speed be the cause of the deaths?

[Trevor 57]

Going by what is delivered by TV news it appears to be mainly in or around Capital cities by young people who were exceeding the speed limits (not 100k limits here, just around town limits.

I also believe fatigue, tiredness and lack of concentration (fiddling with things inside the car or having people in the car distracting the driver) would be the other great contributors, with a little bit of alcohol thrown in.

I could check around as the data would certainly be available.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

what if more people are dying travelling at 60-80km/h then how can speed be the cause of the deaths?

Because they hit something really hard, like a tree at around 80km/h

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Because they hit something really hard, like a tree at around 80km/h

Yeh obviously, but why did they hit the tree, was it because they were speeding, or they just couldn't drive/distracted/alcohol/fatigue/fiddling etc?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Yeh obviously, but why did they hit the tree, was it because they were speeding, or they just couldn't drive/distracted/alcohol/fatigue/fiddling etc?

All of the above (at the same time generally)

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

That is a bad number Trev, but as you alluded to safety aspects of cars, they are so much more safer now, so what is really causing the 300 deaths we record each year, is it really speed, does speed really kill, is any data available to us, of the deaths that are occuring how many of them are at what speed level, what if more people are dying travelling at 60-80km/h then how can speed be the cause of the deaths?

EXCESSIVE SPEED..... i.e faster than safe to travel.... causing loss of control etc etc.... it doesnt matter what the posted limit is if you're travelling TOO fast to safely negotiate a hazzard, other traffic or road conditions.....

I.E SPEED KILLS....

Maybe the govt should change the slogan to "EXCESSIVE SPEED FOR THE CONDITIONS KILLS" so the dumb people understand what the message is too...

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

EXCESSIVE SPEED..... i.e faster than safe to travel.... causing loss of control etc etc.... it doesnt matter what the posted limit is if you're travelling TOO fast to safely negotiate a hazzard, other traffic or road conditions.....

I.E SPEED KILLS....

Maybe the govt should change the slogan to "EXCESSIVE SPEED FOR THE CONDITIONS KILLS" so the dumb people understand what the message is too...

So the 300 loss of lives per year is all because people were going faster than safe to travel. I have seen many horrible head ons caused only by bad driving when a motorist crosses into the other lane, doesn't matter if your speeding or not a head on is always going to end badly.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

So the 300 loss of lives per year is all because people were going faster than safe to travel. I have seen many horrible head ons caused only by bad driving when a motorist crosses into the other lane, doesn't matter if your speeding or not a head on is always going to end badly.

How many deaths are truly "accidents"?? not many id suggest... only people having heart attacks etc would be classed as an "accident"...
There is a reason for all fatalities.

Excessive speed and alcohol seem to be highly represented as contributors in most road fatalities..

People need to remember excessive speed can be 80 in a 100 zone if the traffic or conditions make it unsafe.. too many morons think the posted limit is the compulsory speed for all conditions no matter what.

A fatality at 80kph in a 100 zone where that speed is far too fast for the conditions (i.e bumper to bumper traffic in fog and a huge rear-ender) is classified as having speed as a contributing factor...

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

How many deaths are truly "accidents"?? not many id suggest... only people having heart attacks etc would be classed as an "accident"...
There is a reason for all fatalities.

Excessive speed and alcohol seem to be highly represented as contributors in most road fatalities..

People need to remember excessive speed can be 80 in a 100 zone if the traffic or conditions make it unsafe.. too many morons think the posted limit is the compulsory speed for all conditions no matter what.

A fatality at 80kph in a 100 zone where that speed is far too fast for the conditions (i.e bumper to bumper traffic in fog and a huge rear-ender) is classified as having speed as a contributing factor...

You make a good point, I was just making the point that it isn't always speed that is the problem, but you are right speed and alcohol seem to be the main contribution.

The bigger question is what can we do about it? Road education doesnt seem to be working right? Loss of demerit points, fines etc. dont seem to be working.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

You make a good point, I was just making the point that it isn't always speed that is the problem, but you are right speed and alcohol seem to be the main contribution.

The bigger question is what can we do about it? Road education doesnt seem to be working right? Loss of demerit points, fines etc. dont seem to be working.

No.. you are right.. speed isnt always the reason for a road fatality but not many people would die hitting a solid object at 50kph compared to 150kph...
So there is an undeniable relationship between "speed" and increased "risk"...

There is a time and place to travel at various speeds regarless of posted limits, being mature enough and experienced enough to pick the right time will be relatively safe, get it wrong or increase the risk and you are at the mercy of the gods..

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

No.. you are right.. speed isnt always the reason for a road fatality but not many people would die hitting a solid object at 50kph compared to 150kph...
So there is an undeniable relationship between "speed" and increased "risk"...

There is a time and place to travel at various speeds regarless of posted limits, being mature enough and experienced enough to pick the right time will be relatively safe, get it wrong or increase the risk and you are at the mercy of the gods..

Agreed. It's all in the drivers attitude to the road.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Agreed. It's all in the drivers attitude to the road.

CORRECT!!!!

[xr8 utey]

Originally Posted by JAYMZ

Now i know why i see interstate platted cars going slow. I thought they didn't know where they were going, ie looking for the right street.

Now i understand.

you got that right! i come down the hume hwy from sydney to attend the vic rounds of V8SC and once i hit the vic border i set my cruise control from my GPS and then lower the cruise control another 2k's!
i know it's a bit of overkill but then i have yet to receive a fine! :

[G6ET8U]

1000 a year in the 60's/70's against 300 a year now considering the population growth is a massive amount.

It is actually hard to fathom. In those days it is a suprise that the news at 6pm didn't go for an hour just to deal with the fatalities for the day...

Amazing figures.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by HYPOG6

1000 a year in the 60's/70's against 300 a year now considering the population growth is a massive amount.

It is actually hard to fathom. In those days it is a suprise that the news at 6pm didn't go for an hour just to deal with the fatalities for the day...

Amazing figures.

Those are victorian figures though.. not national.

[G6ET8U]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Those are victorian figures though.. not national.

As I said above they are amazing... no actually they are tragic figures. They aren't even figures either. They are people. Hard to fathom the loss of life.

[greenfoam]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

yep we are by far the nanny state, the problem is they are "cotton wooling" everyone, they think for us, it won't be long before we may as well not leave the house and just stay in.
Revenue raising at its finest. and of course they will keep telling us that its cutting down the road toll, what because someone is a few KM's over, does the state government think we are all that stupid?

We need the money so we can afford to give free power the the Aluminium smelters and afford to build a desalination plant (along with future nuclear power plant next to it) to power the previously mentioned smelters. All for what point..... I'm not sure. But we need the money to do it anyway. "Victoria the state run by big companys"

[schmidty]

Originally Posted by IH8HSV

Hi all...

My girlfriend has just came back from a return drive to Melbourne - from Perth.

It was a good drive she reckons, until we received a speed camera fine yesterday.

The fine is $146.00 for doing 106km in a 100km zone. It was on Dadswells Bridge.

I cant believe the penalty for this! In W.A a patrol car will just flash it lights if you are over the limit by under 10km/h. And its only a $50 fine if done by a camera.

I'm surprised that you Victorians even have a licence at all with such harsh penalties! What would the fine be if she was doing over the 10km's???

A speed measuring device has a tolerance of -/+ 3km, according to Australian tests Ive read on the net. Add this 3km/h figure difference to a speedometer which could be out at least 4km/h and your done for speeding!

I cant believe you Victorians are even still on the road!!! - Poor Buggers.

That's where the rest of the country is at mate. At least the points don't transfer state to state anyway. As for the $50 bucks for 1 - 9kmh over in WA, as someone else said i think you'll find that it's up to $75. I know of a few people complaining lately that they got pinged and it was up to $75 now.

I moved to WA 2 years ago from Vic. Used to drive 150,000 - 200,000km a year and used to be hard work keeping points over east. I've been done for 83kmh in an 80 zone, which was crap, but thems the rules so you cop it on the chin. I've got a 4wd which is my weekender that has tyres 4 inches bigger than standard issue and it's my responsibility to know how it's affected my speedo. Speedo under reads by about 10kmh so i drive that off the gps speed to be safe. In my FG i know my speedo is spot on the money according to GPS. Get caught, it's my fault.

I also can't believe how many people in WA have radar detectors on their windscreens in plain view over here and don't get hassled.

When i was over in Vic over Christmas, we did a run up the Hume almost to the border. I could point out all the old up coming hide outs for the Hwy patrol from when i was in the truck, and sure enough, coppers in almost every one. The missus observed that driving in Victoria it almost feels like you're being hunted for your license points. Traffic is also generally a lot better behaved because the police presence is huge, and the cameras are everywhere.

It'll happen in Perth, there's too much money on offer for the government to knock back, but Perth's just a bit slow on the get go.

The one thing that is nice about being here is now i just drive. No looking over your shoulder and behind the bushes and bridges and signs all the time. No checking your speedo every 2 seconds to make sure you haven't rolled over speed, get to just concentrate on driving. Which is good because there are some rubbish drivers here! And 2 years on I've still got all of my points

:

[OZQUAD44]

Radar detectors are legal in WA.

I hope that any Victorians who get a little too upset with interstate rivalry don't find that comment too offensive... I'd hate to offend

[SVD]

why to people thing Vic number plates are "Victoria...The Place to BE!" then of course in super small script you can't see without a magnifying glass... Fined. K THX for the cash

[Trevor 57]

I think it is time that I revealed some amazing facts about driving in Victoria.

If you sit on the speed limit indicated by the signs and your spedo, don't drink and drive, stop at stop signs and red lights, stop at railway crossings, etc, etc you don't get any fines.

I have been driving that way for nigh on 15 years, it is amazing

Now I know some of you are amazed by that AND I do live in Victoria, and travel extensively through out this State, including a minimum of 2 trips per week to Melbourne.

And evern more of an astonishing fact, I haven't died after over 35 years of driving in Victoria , aven as a full time truck driver.

Amazing facts aren't they :

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I was just flicking through an old wheels magazine - July 1967, and came across an interesting article "The Suicidal Sixties" which lamented the introduction of blanket 60mph speed limits in NSW. NSW was one of the first states to introduce the blanket limit, with wheels predicting the other states will almost certainly follow suit - with the exception of Victoria, "which has firmly set its face against an outright speed limit"

Actually, NSW (thank you ALP) introduced an absolute 100km/h speed limit in July 78. This replaced NSW's speed derestriction (//) which for this state held 80km/h as a PRIMA FACIE maximum.

Up until that date, when passing a speed derestriction sign, one could legally exceed the prima facie 80km/h IF prevailing road, weather and vehicle conditions so warranted.

VIC had an absolute rural speed limit BEFORE NSW.

Back then there was a "'driver onus' limit of 50mph, under which you may be charged with driving dangerously if doing more than that speed, and the onus is on you to prove you were driving safely", a situation which Victoria "considers ideal".

Where 50mph = to effect 80km/h.

How things have changed!! Now from what I can tell Victoria is the most overpoliced state in the country for speed. Think I was born too late....

Yes and yes, but it is hard for governments to give up income streams, typically in administration, a states Auditor or AG's Dept yearly direct the road and police agencies to make-dollars or reduce exposure to outgoings.

Rem, MP's come and go, but the puplic servant employees are for life, perfect for 'agenda'.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I think it is time that I revealed some amazing facts about driving in Victoria.

If you sit on the speed limit indicated by the signs and your spedo,

The problem with speed limit conditioning Big Trev is that it takes attention away from concentrating on driving in drivers less skilled than yourself. People will drive "up to" the speed limit even in conditions that dictate they shouldn't be (like blinding rain or poor sightlines) because "if they're within the speed limit everything is OK". Highway hypnosis is another factor. Speed limits induce a mentality that is the opposite of intelligent, focussed driving. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist but they should be guidelines, with say a 10% tolerance above and an expectation that driving will be below limit if circumstances are adverse.

I also understand that the great majority of road fatalities in Australia occur at or below the posted speed limit.

[SilentDave]

Those road toll figures in the 70's were high and even 300 odd is way to many, just a few questions has anyone/group done a real comparison as to /100,000 population type figures just to compare(yes the vehicles have come a long way since then in terms of safety) and has anything been released as to causes, I would say a speed/alcohol/fatigue related accidents would be high but wrong time wrong place might also equate equally to.