Vfacts December 2022

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Little bit of news from the US.

It seems they are going to redo tariffs unless you make 85% or so locally, ie domestic production. Sounds like how Australia had it's car industry back in 1970!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG1q9gdxDq0

There's also 8K rebate or so on domestically produced electric cars?

They are protecting their industry, old school style. It's the new (old) way of the world. We could do the same with Toyota, Ford and Hol... oh wait

They already have something called the 'chicken tax' on utes - if its not made in the US it attracts a huge tariff that makes it non competitive with the locally made ones.

Thats why Tunda, Ridgeline et al are all made in the US.

[Sprintey]

Looks like this is a step further. Expect new factories I guess

Hello, Aus Fed Gov...

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You mean when ZF in germany stopped making the 6HP there and the only choice they gave Ford was to send them ones from China for 2 years? Yeah solid argument there, vs a whole car built there. Real einstein comparison. It was even funnier when you melted down over it and you claimed you knew who i was because your giant ego couldn’t handle it.



If Ford sourced cars from china i would be fuming. Some people might be cool with sending money to support the communist regime that continually tries to bully us, but i’m not. You’re only cool with it because Tesla cult.



.

Whole car, part of the car, Whatever justifies your position. Ford bought the part from China under a JV setup. Either you have your principles or you don't. It's cute that your morals only apply as you deem fit. Bit weak.

That gearbox supported the communist regime. Teslas do not.

Repeat after me, "kypez is cool with the Teslas from China because there is no JV."

I love how rattled you get with the mention of Tesla though you brought it into this discussion. How sad your life must be that all you think about is what you don't enjoy.

You are right though, the people I met on the production line at both Broady and Geelong were awesome people. Absolutely fantastic people. Spent hours with them. You could never have been one of them.

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[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They already have something called the 'chicken tax' on utes - if its not made in the US it attracts a huge tariff that makes it non competitive with the locally made ones.



Thats why Tunda, Ridgeline et al are all made in the US.

All because the Europeans taxed the US chicken import. Not sure if that still exists though the US one still does.

25%. Guess our LCT of 33% (which started at 25%) was initially designed to do the same.

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[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

All because the Europeans taxed the US chicken import. Not sure if that still exists though the US one still does.

25%. Guess our LCT of 33% (which started at 25%) was initially designed to do the same.

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Ford Faces Potential $1.3 Billion Fine For Skirting 'Chicken Tax' Regulations With Transit Connect Imports

https://jalopnik.com/ford-faces-pote...chi-1847028810

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by kypez

Whole car, part of the car, Whatever justifies your position. Ford bought the part from China under a JV setup. Either you have your principles or you don't. It's cute that your morals only apply as you deem fit. Bit weak.

That gearbox supported the communist regime. Teslas do not.

Repeat after me, "kypez is cool with the Teslas from China because there is no JV."

I love how rattled you get with the mention of Tesla though you brought it into this discussion. How sad your life must be that all you think about is what you don't enjoy.

You are right though, the people I met on the production line at both Broady and Geelong were awesome people. Absolutely fantastic people. Spent hours with them. You could never have been one of them.

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Gotta pull you up on that one, Tesla supports the CCP just by doing business there. We all do really, look where the stuff we buy is made. Xi is just as likely to wake up tomorrow, change his mind and force them into a JV. I don’t particularly have anything against China specifically as every country has its dirty laundry, but I’d have looked at a lot of other countries before settling on China to set up shop.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Gotta pull you up on that one, Tesla supports the CCP just by doing business there. We all do really, look where the stuff we buy is made. Xi is just as likely to wake up tomorrow, change his mind and force them into a JV. I don’t particularly have anything against China specifically as every country has its dirty laundry, but I’d have looked at a lot of other countries before settling on China to set up shop.

AGREED. Though Not a direct support. Like I said, helping the Chinese people with employment suggests the govt will get tax dollars from them. But it's not a JV and CCP bent over backwards to get Tesla in country. Bit like India now inviting Tesla to manufacture there. Tesla got a lot of incentives to setup in China.

They (CCP) could change their mind, no doubt. It's only what it is now.

And Agreed, trying to buy things with zero Chinese made components is next to impossible, JV or otherwise. And we depends a LOT on China buying our stuff. We'd be hurting a lot more of China stops buying our stuff than if we stopped buying their stuff (which would only hurt us again).

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

AGREED. Though Not a direct support. Like I said, helping the Chinese people with employment suggests the govt will get tax dollars from them. But it's not a JV and CCP bent over backwards to get Tesla in country. Bit like India now inviting Tesla to manufacture there. Tesla got a lot of incentives to setup in China.

They (CCP) could change their mind, no doubt. It's only what it is now.

And Agreed, trying to buy things with zero Chinese made components is next to impossible, JV or otherwise. And we depends a LOT on China buying our stuff. We'd be hurting a lot more of China stops buying our stuff than if we stopped buying their stuff (which would only hurt us again).

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My favorite part was how all the wine manufacturers really got the sook on about China stopping our exports at the border when they kicked off their trade war against us for asking questions about COVID - thats what happens when you think having only one customer is a good thing

A shame, surely there's other people in the world who would buy Australian wine, might have to put some effort in.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My favorite part was how all the wine manufacturers really got the sook on about China stopping our exports at the border when they kicked off their trade war against us for asking questions about COVID - thats what happens when you think having only one customer is a good thing



A shame, surely there's other people in the world who would buy Australian wine, might have to put some effort in.

Wine, lobster, etc. They all cried bloody murder. Problem they all had was the shipments were already on the way or had already docked so simply redirecting them wasn't simple. And those ships can't go somewhere else either.

And for sheer volume of consumers, you can't go past China. Moving it to India won't have the same effect as they simply don't eat as much lobster as a nation for example. Nor will they pay a premium for wine. Europe isn't going to buy our wine either nor America. China or bust really. And they know it.

Will we expect sales numbers to be lower in January than December given it's usually a slow start to the year?

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[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My favorite part was how all the wine manufacturers really got the sook on about China stopping our exports at the border when they kicked off their trade war against us for asking questions about COVID - thats what happens when you think having only one customer is a good thing

A shame, surely there's other people in the world who would buy Australian wine, might have to put some effort in.

Never mind,
I just don’t believe in politicians picking a fight when they don’t suffer the consequences

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Never mind,
I just don’t believe in politicians picking a fight when they don’t suffer the consequences

I wonder if the people driving chinese cars would put “i stand with Taiwan” on their socials if the chinese ever invaded. And if the irony would be lost on them.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I wonder if the people driving chinese cars would put “i stand with Taiwan” on their socials if the chinese ever invaded. And if the irony would be lost on them.

I think the warranty gets voided if you say stuff like that….

[csv8]

“Favourite passenger cars and SUVs chosen by private buyers in Australia in 2022
Mazda CX-5 – 20,274
Toyota RAV4 – 18,307
MG ZS – 17,805
Hyundai i30 – 16,119
Hyundai Tucson – 12,621
Kia Sportage – 12,415
MG3 hatch – 11,139
Mazda CX-30 – 11,132
Toyota Prado – 11,082
Mitsubishi Outlander – 10,746
Toyota Corolla – 10,503
Mazda CX-3 – 9483
Hyundai Kona – 8869
Tesla Model 3 – 8680
Mitsubishi ASX – 8398
Mazda3 – 7914
Kia Cerato – 7868
Subaru Forester – 7868
Kia Seltos – 7562
Subaru XV – 7455“
https://www.facebook.com/44694775521...9fYd5jPil/?d=n

[Franco Cozzo]

Apparently no one wants small cars anymore but the i30, MG3 and Corolla are still doing numbers.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Apparently no one wants small cars anymore but the i30, MG3 and Corolla are still doing numbers.

Whatever happened to Skoda. The cars not SUV's. Used to see all the TV advert during the Tour De France but does anyone besides road cyclist by them.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by csv8

“Favourite passenger cars and SUVs chosen by private buyers in Australia in 2022
Mazda CX-5 – 20,274
Toyota RAV4 – 18,307
MG ZS – 17,805
Hyundai i30 – 16,119
Hyundai Tucson – 12,621
Kia Sportage – 12,415
MG3 hatch – 11,139
Mazda CX-30 – 11,132
Toyota Prado – 11,082
Mitsubishi Outlander – 10,746
Toyota Corolla – 10,503
Mazda CX-3 – 9483
Hyundai Kona – 8869
Tesla Model 3 – 8680
Mitsubishi ASX – 8398
Mazda3 – 7914
Kia Cerato – 7868
Subaru Forester – 7868
Kia Seltos – 7562
Subaru XV – 7455“
https://www.facebook.com/44694775521...9fYd5jPil/?d=n

Tesla sold over 10,000 Model 3's. Did fleets, rentals and govt buy almost 2000 Model 3's?!

I think they mixed up the Model 3 and Model Y numbers.

https://thedriven.io/2023/01/09/tesl...utsells-camry/

Model 3 - 10,877
Model Y - 8,717

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Apparently no one wants small cars anymore but the i30, MG3 and Corolla are still doing numbers.

No one wants Ford small cars anymore. No idea how VW recovered the Golf from their DSG issues but Focus just couldn't make it back.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

No one wants Ford small cars anymore. No idea how VW recovered the Golf from their DSG issues but Focus just couldn't make it back.

Focus had a proper torque converter auto since 2016, the decline in sales was more about uncompetitive pricing.
It wasn’t just Focus, the prices asked for Fiesta, Escape, Equator we’re all up there compared to the competition.
The joke was that Edge/Equator was already screwed in Europe before we were sent the first one, Australia was
The small market used to amortise RHD development costs before Canada pulled the plug on exports (LHD only).

Ford Europe treats Ford Australia as a poor cousin, charging near full retail price for the few vehicles it can spare……

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by kypez

No one wants Ford small cars anymore. No idea how VW recovered the Golf from their DSG issues but Focus just couldn't make it back.

That's the thing no one on here wants to admit. People still want and buy plenty of small cars, they just don't want Ford small car's. Whether or not the cars are better or worse, unless you are a ford tragic, they don't want them. Thats why Ford stopped bringing them here. The juice isn't worth the squeeze for them. Ranger and Everest bring them a tone of sales and profit, Mustang will as well (not a huge seller on its own, but in its segment it, or will be once new one arrives).

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

That's the thing no one on here wants to admit. People still want and buy plenty of small cars, they just don't want Ford small car's. Whether or not the cars are better or worse, unless you are a ford tragic, they don't want them. Thats why Ford stopped bringing them here. The juice isn't worth the squeeze for them. Ranger and Everest bring them a tone of sales and profit, Mustang will as well (not a huge seller on its own, but in its segment it, or will be once new one arrives).

Small cars have been dropping off for a few years now. You either have your dirt cheap ones, or your fleet queen with a huge reputation, and not much in between. Manufacturers are starting to move away from them into more profitable small suv’s.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Small cars have been dropping off for a few years now. You either have your dirt cheap ones, or your fleet queen with a huge reputation, and not much in between. Manufacturers are starting to move away from them into more profitable small suv’s.

Anyone who buys a Chinese brand car / BEV (not Tesla) probably deserves everything the get …or don’t.

The Koreans must surely be calling uncle on a tough sub $30k market, costs are killing them…

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Anyone who buys a Chinese brand car / BEV (not Tesla) probably deserves everything the get …or don’t.

The Koreans must surely be calling uncle on a tough sub $30k market, costs are killing them…

The days of $19,990 drive away are long gone. They keep jacking the price of small cars up just to try to get some profit out of them.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

That's the thing no one on here wants to admit. People still want and buy plenty of small cars, they just don't want Ford small car's. Whether or not the cars are better or worse, unless you are a ford tragic, they don't want them. Thats why Ford stopped bringing them here. The juice isn't worth the squeeze for them. Ranger and Everest bring them a tone of sales and profit, Mustang will as well (not a huge seller on its own, but in its segment it, or will be once new one arrives).

Yeah. Most people worry about resale as well and Ford suffered from higher prices and more depreciation in that segment. Conversely, its why people buy Ranger as a safe bet with strong resale.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Small cars have been dropping off for a few years now. You either have your dirt cheap ones, or your fleet queen with a huge reputation, and not much in between. Manufacturers are starting to move away from them into more profitable small suv’s.

You're right that the market has shrunk but Ford was left behind in the segment. And they have pivoted correctly away from that segment. Its just a shame because they had some good cars in that space that just failed to launch.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The days of $19,990 drive away are long gone. They keep jacking the price of small cars up just to try to get some profit out of them.

Till the Chinese arrived. They are back in that price bracket... For now.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Focus had a proper torque converter auto since 2016, the decline in sales was more about uncompetitive pricing.
It wasn’t just Focus, the prices asked for Fiesta, Escape, Equator we’re all up there compared to the competition.
The joke was that Edge/Equator was already screwed in Europe before we were sent the first one, Australia was
The small market used to amortise RHD development costs before Canada pulled the plug on exports (LHD only).

Ford Europe treats Ford Australia as a poor cousin, charging near full retail price for the few vehicles it can spare……

Endura

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Anyone who buys a Chinese brand car / BEV (not Tesla) probably deserves everything the get …or don’t.

The Koreans must surely be calling uncle on a tough sub $30k market, costs are killing them…

Govt aside for a moment (and not to turn it into an EV thread), the Chinese actually are making big gains in battery technology. BYD are doing very well have and have years of home battery experience. MG is garbage but only a matter of time before the chinese govt shares the BYD tech with them.

Funnily, its the Euros that have the worst battery technology out there. BMW have learnt so little with the i3. And then you have the Japs with no thermal management for their battery cars. Most of the horror stories we hear about EVs are all Jap cars. Leaf is dreadful, and so are the Mitsubishis. Chev with their Volt and Bolt have also shown up that they can't build EVs.

Ford have somehow got it right with battery technology as seen by the Mach E but that is still not there yet.

So, as much as I'm not a fan of the other Chinese cars, their BEV tech is second to only maybe Tesla.

Dynamically, thats a different story altogether. But as we saw with the small car segment (and most segments), people don't care all that much for dynamics anymore.

The rest of the car might be average, but their battery technology is pretty decent.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Whatever happened to Skoda. The cars not SUV's. Used to see all the TV advert during the Tour De France but does anyone besides road cyclist by them.

Skoda - a mix of supply issues and pricing.
Cars-Fabia and Scala


I bought a Fabia wagon in 2020 for 19k drive away bargain basement five speed manual but radar cruise and apple car play.
Today Fabia has a new model only a hatch only an auto but is 38 k drive away!!!

Scala was 26990 drive away in 2020 and now the base model auto only three cyl is 34 k drive away but for months theres been none available only the top spec signature/monte carlo at 43k.


Bit of stress there now at Skoda ---- some dealers only some maybe factory owned have been reducing prices by 3-4-5 k ... clearing 2022 stock. When they do this the stock moves.

But most Skoda dealers sit at retail and the stock just does seem to sit around.

On Superb their top line sedan some of their models cost as much or more than Tesla 3..... why buy a Skoda when you can get a low fuel cost low rand m Tesla?


Same sort of price increses apply to their suv range.

VAG drive Skoda s pricing and have positioned it too high.

Why buy a petrol Karoq suv at 43-56k when you can get a MG electric suv or a BYD electric SUV.

The Euro s have problems.

My Fabia -written off. Replaced it with a Puma at 32k -looked at Skoda too dear the Ford does the job.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Endura

Sorry, I misspoke (probably in more ways than one)
It disappoints to know the development that went into 3-row Chinese version
and who did the work on it and the Mondeo….

Grr, vehicles like Chinese Territory, the above “Equator” and larger Mondeo,
all tantalisingly close but out of reach as LHD only, would that they could
have RHDs for our market (not happening I know)

[janddbone]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My favorite part is how everyone abandoned the micro/small segment cars because 'there is no profit in them', it just funneled the sales in this segment to Kia/Mazda who stayed in and the prices went up $5000-$10,000

The price of the Mazda 2 is an absolute joke, its just under $30K for something thats hardly changed mechanically in the past 15 years.

Mazda 2 moved to an all new platform in 2014, so your being a bit unkind.

[kevino]

Mazda 2 / Ford Fiesta

Mazda Cx3 and Ford Puma have some styling similarities which is interesting