Falcon V8 Supercar vs Large turboed RX7 *track video* - Page 3

02-01-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrum

What a w#@k!! I am surprised this clip was not in Japanese and sub titled. Why do they keep trying to compare their cars against our V8s. I don't give a damn about rice burners. I think it is similiar to the little man syndrome.

Look at ME!!! :jab:

Kinda like the way Gammaboy is acting... isn't it.

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

Kinda like the way Gammaboy is acting... isn't it.

No, because I'm rational and logical.

GTS_300_Coupe · 02-01-2006, 06:13 PM

Alot of arguments flocking to this thread, like a fat kid to a cupcake.
Chill out everybody. The video was supposed to be funny.
If you've seen high octane (where this footage is from) they always take a stab at V8s.

Redrum · 02-01-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Alot of arguments flocking to this thread, like a fat kid to a cupcake.
Chill out everybody. The video was supposed to be funny.
If you've seen high octane (where this footage is from) they always take a stab at V8s.

This was obvious. But when you present this to a forum which is crowded with people who grew up on V8's at Bathurst etc and are part of the Aussie V8 culture you have to expect responses such as have been posted.

02-01-2006, 07:18 PM

"At the heart of the RX-8 spins a compact Renesis rotary engine. Redlined at 9000rpm, the 654cc x 2, fuel injected rotary produces a remarkable 177 kW (ECE) of power at 8200rpm and 211Nm (ECE) of torque at 5500rpm when mated to a six-speed manual gearbox. The engine passes Euro Stage III emission standards.

This engine was named International Engine of the Year in 2003, with judges impressed by the powerplant’s smooth, high-revving performance and eco-friendliness."

Wow, kinda makes a fool out of your Cosworth friend now doesn't it Gammaboy?

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

"At the heart of the RX-8 spins a compact Renesis rotary engine. Redlined at 9000rpm, the 654cc x 2, fuel injected rotary produces a remarkable 177 kW (ECE) of power at 8200rpm and 211Nm (ECE) of torque at 5500rpm when mated to a six-speed manual gearbox. The engine passes Euro Stage III emission standards.

This engine was named International Engine of the Year in 2003, with judges impressed by the powerplant’s smooth, high-revving performance and eco-friendliness."

Wow, kinda makes a fool out of your Cosworth friend now doesn't it Gammaboy?

Not really.

Perana · 02-01-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

"At the heart of the RX-8 spins a compact Renesis rotary engine. Redlined at 9000rpm, the 654cc x 2, fuel injected rotary produces a remarkable 177 kW (ECE) of power at 8200rpm and 211Nm (ECE) of torque at 5500rpm when mated to a six-speed manual gearbox. The engine passes Euro Stage III emission standards.

This engine was named International Engine of the Year in 2003, with judges impressed by the powerplant’s smooth, high-revving performance and eco-friendliness."

Wow, kinda makes a fool out of your Cosworth friend now doesn't it Gammaboy?

Yet it uses more fuel to get less power and MUCH less torque than a 4.0L N/A I6....

geckoGT · 02-01-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Yet it uses more fuel to get less power and MUCH less torque than a 4.0L N/A I6....

Yep, lets see you put one in a family car. Or tow a trailer up to the drags and then put the tow car down the track in under 14 secs as well. The rotary will never replace the V8, end of story. Worst sound in the world is a rotary, to quote a magazine "the sound will calcify every vertebrae in your body from a hundred yards", the V8 on the other hand is sweet even when they are stock.

02-01-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Yet it uses more fuel to get less power and MUCH less torque than a 4.0L N/A I6....

I'm not familiar with fuel usage but gee, a 4.0L makes more power and torque than the 2.6L... wow what a no-brainer... so it should. What's your point?!

This whole arguement started about everyone wanting a fair contest, now you chime in with 4.0L vs 2.6L power outputs. What the?

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

I'm not familiar with fuel usage but gee, a 4.0L makes more power and torque than the 2.6L... wow what a no-brainer... so it should. What's your point?!

This whole arguement started about everyone wanting a fair contest, now you chime in with 4.0L vs 2.6L power outputs. What the?

Re-read the comments by my friend who you doubt so much, and you'll maybe understand the reason the comments are being made, after all its not a 2.6

02-01-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

Yep, lets see you put one in a family car. Or tow a trailer up to the drags and then put the tow car down the track in under 14 secs as well. The rotary will never replace the V8, end of story. Worst sound in the world is a rotary, to quote a magazine "the sound will calcify every vertebrae in your body from a hundred yards", the V8 on the other hand is sweet even when they are stock.

If you think a rotary cant tow something you don't know what you're talking about and who mentioned replacing the V8?

Perana · 02-01-2006, 08:03 PM

Point is efficiency...

And the 4.0L I6 isnt the most efficient of engines either..

02-01-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Re-read the comments by my friend who you doubt so much, and you'll maybe understand the reason the comments are being made, after all its not a 2.6

Why did it win best 2.5L to 3.0L engine then?

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

And you want to tow a trailer to the drags then race the tow car? oh man, what is wrong with you people. If you think a rotary cant tow something you don't know what you're talking about.

Perhaps I should tell my mate to quit his job at Cosworth so you can take over. Your knowledge is obviously far superior. While you're at it, wanna take over my job as a R&D engineer? I bow to the superior intellect of MEnAcE? or is it meNaCe? or Menar$e?

geckoGT · 02-01-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

I'm not familiar with fuel usage but gee, a 4.0L makes more power and torque than the 2.6L... wow what a no-brainer... so it should. What's your point?!

This whole arguement started about everyone wanting a fair contest, now you chime in with 4.0L vs 2.6L power outputs. What the?

It is an indication that the rotary is not a very efficient design in producing power. The performance comes from the revs and the low vehicle weights, the V8's are nearly always in a big vehicle. If you want a fair comparison of the engine designs, which is what this biased video was trying to show, you would have to run a rotary and a V8 in the same chassis. We all know what the result would be, my money is on the V8 :jab:

:

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

Why did it win best 2.5L to 3.0L engine then?

because they are not engineers, they're journalists, and everyone knows journalists can't count. Oh, and even you said the 12A is only 70ci (1.2l)

02-01-2006, 08:07 PM

I've owned many V8's and many rotaries and love them both. My point is i bet most if not all the people that bag rotaries have never experinced them first hand, you just have a one eyed mentality.

Perana · 02-01-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

Why did it win best 2.5L to 3.0L engine then?

Probably nothing else in the competition... From what I understand its only for NEW engines in the year.

02-01-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

It is an indication that the rotary is not a very efficient design in producing power. The performance comes from the revs and the low vehicle weights, the V8's are nearly always in a big vehicle. If you want a fair comparison of the engine designs, which is what this biased video was trying to show, you would have to run a rotary and a V8 in the same chassis. We all know what the result would be, my money is on the V8 :jab:

:

That's crap when an 80ci engine can make over 1000hp. How can that be inefficient at making power?

And my point is you want fair... you talk about the same chassis, what about the same engine size?

02-01-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Probably nothing else in the competition... From what I understand its only for NEW engines in the year.

It also won international engine of the year, but yeah, maybe there were no other engines in that class too.

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 08:11 PM

Mate, I've experienced some very quick rotaries, they made my ears bleed and you couldn't hold a conversation at the lights, let alone on the move. I'm not one eyed. I'm an engineer. I can't afford to be one eyed. I judge things on their physical traits.
And the reality is Rotaries are far less thermodynamically efficient than a conventional fourstroke, no matter its configuration, 4/6/8/10/12!
I think you'll find the one being one-eyed here is you.

geckoGT · 02-01-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

If you think a rotary cant tow something you don't know what you're talking about and who mentioned replacing the V8?

Oh please stop it, you are killing me. You trying to tell me that an RX8 could tow a car trailer? That is the best joke I have heard all day, 211nm of pure stump pulling power hey? Considering that Mazda do not give any towing capacity, nor is there a tow bar option. It was an illustration of the different roles of V8's and rotaries, do I have to spell it out more? I like the RX8 but do not think they are a replacement to the V8 and never will. Lets face it, out of all the performance cars in the world, only one marque uses the rotary, everyone else has had at least one V8. If the rotary is so superior, why isn't everyone else using it?

02-01-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

because they are not engineers, they're journalists, and everyone knows journalists can't count. Oh, and even you said the 12A is only 70ci (1.2l)

You're confused. 13B as far as i know is 80ci, 654cc x 2 = 1.3L. 2 plugs per rotor, 2 x 1.3 = 2.6L. You started the Litre stuff, i only ever mentioned cubic inches. 12A would be 2.4L.

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

That's crap when an 80ci engine can make over 1000hp. How can that be inefficient at making power?

And my point is you want fair... you talk about the same chassis, what about the same engine size?

Where are they making over 1000hp? the real upper limit for the 2 rotor mazda rotaries is about 500ish hp, after that you can't keep seals in the damn things.

02-01-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

Oh please stop it, you are killing me. You trying to tell me that an RX8 could tow a car trailer? That is the best joke I have heard all day, 211nm of pure stump pulling power hey? Considering that Mazda do not give any towing capacity, nor is there a tow bar option. It was an illustration of the different roles of V8's and rotaries, do I have to spell it out more? I like the RX8 but do not think they are a replacement to the V8 and never will. Lets face it, out of all the performance cars in the world, only one marque uses the rotary, everyone else has had at least one V8. If the rotary is so superior, why isn't everyone else using it?

Where have I ever stated the rotary to be superior?

02-01-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Where are they making over 1000hp? the real upper limit for the 2 rotor mazda rotaries is about 500ish hp, after that you can't keep seals in the damn things.

OMG, now you have shown me how ignorant you are.

geckoGT · 02-01-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

Where have I ever stated the rotary to be superior?

Wake up, that is what the video was trying to demonstrate, and not on a level playing field either.

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

You're confused. 13B as far as i know is 80ci, 654cc x 2 = 1.3L. 2 plugs per rotor, 2 x 1.3 = 2.6L. You started the Litre stuff, i only ever mentioned cubic inches. 12A would be 2.4L.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
80cubic inches = 2.6litres? so by your theory, my 358cubic inch engine would be 11.8litres?

Oh, but hangon doubling the number of plugs per cylinder doubles your capacity? Man, that Alfa I had sure was a slug with its 4.0litre twin spark 4cyl. :ticking:

Gammaboy · 02-01-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meNaCe

OMG, now you have shown me how ignorant you are.

Oh really? find me a 1000hp rotary thats not a drag car? Nitrous doesn't count either.

02-01-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
80cubic inches = 2.6litres? so by your theory, my 358cubic inch engine would be 11.8litres?

Oh, but hangon doubling the number of plugs per cylinder doubles your capacity? Man, that Alfa I had sure was a slug with its 4.0litre twin spark 4cyl. :ticking:

Does your V8 Have 2 plugs per cylinder?