Fake Road Sign......

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Sure they didn't technically break the law, but if they made the turn without knowing the sign was misplaced, then they are fools. Many of them wouldn't have known it was wrongly placed unless they lived there. These are the same breed of people who don't care to obey the road rules. For all they knew, the sign could have been there as sanctioned by authorities. Until they found out for sure, ignoring it was the wrong thing to do seeing as it looked legit enough to fool police on numerous occasions. And let's not get into the "police are stupid/robots" argument because that disgusts me. There are plenty of dumb signs around my area, but I obey them because I don't pretend I own the road. If there is a stupid sign, the appropriate thing is to find out from the authorities if it has been wrongly erected. Only then you will know for sure, and only then are you not a douchebag for thinking you know better.

Good call.

Do people READ the OP before posting.
The article states that a sign was erected preventing people turning from 1 street into another. Now this would be indicated by an explanatory notice sign or a plain old NO LEFT TURN or NO RIGHT TURN. Not an fing WRONG WAY GO BACK? Am i wrong?
Now this may be due to a determination that incidents involving turning traffic encountering oncoming traffic is feeding the local panel beater to much work. WHO ARE WE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO IGNORE A TEMPORARY LOOKING ROAD SIGN (surely the cunstabulary would have deciphered if it was made out of pasta, glue and cardboard ).
THEY DISOBEYED A SIGNED DIRECTIVE INDICATING THE ROAD RULES. Simple. Suck it and see.
There are no sheep driving on the roads, just too many wombats. That fudge it up for the rest of us.

[dom_105]

So we are criticising people for "breaking" a road rule by disobeying a road sign that should not have been there in the first place?

I think we are forgetting the most important factor in this story. There are people out there that are thinking "**** the RTA, **** Vicroads, I know better than all of them" and are going about knocking up signs. Very disturbing, not to mention downright dangerous.

They should be held accountable for their actions.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by dom_105

So we are criticising people for "breaking" a road rule by disobeying a road sign that should not have been there in the first place?

I think we are forgetting the most important factor in this story. There are people out there that are thinking "**** the RTA, **** Vicroads, I know better than all of them" and are going about knocking up signs. Very disturbing, not to mention downright dangerous.

Same could be said by people who blatently break the road rules...they obviously know better as well.

[dom_105]

Be that as it may, that is not what this issue is about.

[Jayden]

So whats the fine for erecting a 'Ford parking only' sign in front of a public car park.

...just out of curiosity.


and will it be bigger than the fine parking inspectors would robotically dole out to non-fords that park there.

[benoxr]

Originally Posted by FTE72

mmmm... I have wondered about this, as the entire residential estate I live in is apparently a 40 KPH zone, but I know the signs were erected by the developer(so were the roads and drainage however).I have always thought that it should be 50KPH just like most of the residential streets in the suburb outside of the estate.
My question to you Flappist: Who are the appropriate people to check legitimacy of signage with? Main Roads or local authority?

That's similar to my estate. When the new 50km/h in residential streets law came in, the state govt explained that anywhere there wasnt a sign, people should treat it as a 50 zone. Most residential streets dont have a sign and yes, they are 50. But ring my council and they say the street is 40 and it was the responsibilty of the developers to put the signs up which were never done of course. I'd bet the developers know nothing about that. So if a cop followed me down my street, would it be 40 or 50? Should I do 50 because thats what I think it should be?

[torbirdie]

This was on aca last night, and do appreciate Im only going on the version presented there.

According to the report, local residents had been campaiging for some method of limiting the traffic through here as it was a popular shortcut to somewhere and bypassed a busy intersection, + a school zone in there etc.
Typically a good reason that councils end up putting in speed humps, no turn between these hours etc.

Hence the appearance of the keep left sign was not of out of place, and was easier for whoever did it than putting speed humps on the road. For the majority of motorists the sign appeared legitimate and more possibly indeed appropriate for the area. All the locals they interviewed thought it was fantastic and made the road less dangerous etc. So perhaps there is a strong case for the sign being legally place there some time in the future.

It wasnt made clear if the sign was a fake or simply a sign stolen from another location, which is a point neither here nor there. It looked real enough on television and as far as the report mentioned, no driver who actually got booked complained that they ignored the sign because they believed it to be fake!

Yes, the fines should be reversed, but really some listing of the cretons that disobeyed it should be taken as they have displayed great evidence of not being able to obey signs, there was no good reason not to obey this one.

I think we could draw a parallel with say a dangerous interesection where council has been slow to erect a stop sign, someone puts a real one up for themselves, paints the lines on the road properly etc and residents get used to it and the fact that one piece of the road now has right of way. A person then fails to stop at that sign(because they now believe all road signs to be fake?) and cleans up a car going the other way, be an interesting case!

Similarly another parallel, could be that a person interferes with the operation of traffic lights so they show constant green in one direction and stop in another. They arent operating as they should, but a driver approaches the intersection and just keeps going through the red with impunity?

It will be interesting if they catch the person responsible, its not actually a new occurence, and Im sure there is a set punishment as there have been many people who tried it on by erecting no parking signs outside their houses

[ebxr8240]

I know the area.. I can bet it was put there to keep people out of their street as a bypass when traffic builds up, way to beat traffic lights also...

[XDV800]

oops double post

[XDV800]

oops triple post

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by dom_105

So we are criticising people for "breaking" a road rule by disobeying a road sign that should not have been there in the first place?

I think we are forgetting the most important factor in this story. There are people out there that are thinking "**** the RTA, **** Vicroads, I know better than all of them" and are going about knocking up signs. Very disturbing, not to mention downright dangerous.

They should be held accountable for their actions.

Yes they should, of course.

So we are criticising people for "breaking" a road rule by disobeying a road sign that should not have been there in the first place?

Are you taking the ?

I think we are forgetting the most important factor in this story. There are people out there that are thinking "**** the RTA, **** Vicroads, I know better than all of them" and are going about ignoring road sign directives. Very disturbing, not to mention downright dangerous.

They should be held accountable for their actions

[Fev]

i live just around the corner from where the sign was placed. And im betting that every single on of the people that got pinged had been doing that same left turn for the 20 years the residents of the street had been asking for it..

If your up for a lil bit of civil disobedience then maybe thats what the locals who were used to turning left at the corner were doin? Thinkin that the sign was stupid and kept doin it anyway..

[EF Hoon]

Originally Posted by Fev

i live just around the corner from where the sign was placed. And im betting that every single on of the people that got pinged had been doing that same left turn for the 20 years the residents of the street had been asking for it..

If your up for a lil bit of civil disobedience then maybe thats what the locals who were used to turning left at the corner were doin? Thinkin that the sign was stupid and kept doin it anyway..

thats what i was doing just ignoring it lol, the sign got taken down about 4 weeks ago now anyway.. but true everyone who got done was probably a local and has been turning left there since they can remember like me lol..

im guessing someone from the school did it, or a parent from the school.. its VERY busy in that street in the morning with everyone taking the short cut and parents taking there kids to school, and not to mention the residents aswell.

[VSSII]

The fake sign appeared to be identical to one erected by 'the authority' (RTA/council) in both its appearance and its location in relation to the intersection. There are guidelines relating to this and whilst there would normally be more than one for the dills who can't open their eyes it still complied. Anyone familiar with the neighbourhood would be aware that the erection of this sign would seem to be reasonable if you approached the intersection at peak time (taking into account traffic flow etc) and it was in no way obscured.Hence the reason locals have been campaigning for one and some bloke felt the need to throw some of his own coin at the problem. (Admittedly people that live there do have a fair bit of the stuff).

[Ross-b]

Originally Posted by blueoval

excuse my ignorance, but what was the purpose of someone putting it there in the first place? What benefit was it? or was it just a joke?

seems pretty funny to me

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I agree with this, the issue is not if the sign should have been there or not, that's a separate issue, the thing that sticks out for me is that motorists disobeyed it.... AND got caught just like every other road infringement...

in this case said motorists knew better

when i was doing on a lesson on my ls
i slowed down from 60 to 40 because of a roadworks sign
there were no roadworks. never were and there was no intention of it
was obviously a prank
my instructor told me to use my commonsense because there were obviously no roadworks
if you know the road
and u see a sign pop up over night
and we all know the council workers (or whoever Erects these signs) dont work that quick and especially at night

then use your common sense and do the right thing

and dont tell me
ohh where does it end ect ect
because i said to use common sense not disobey signs because you think its dumb

Originally Posted by yzfr101

Yes they should, of course.


Are you taking the ?

I think we are forgetting the most important factor in this story. There are people out there that are thinking "**** the RTA, **** Vicroads, I know better than all of them" and are going about ignoring road sign directives. Very disturbing, not to mention downright dangerous.

They should be held accountable for their actions

how do you know the mindset of the people?
refer to above section of post

[burnz]

for those ppl who dont drive in sydney streets, the RTA dont do thing
by halve's, if they dont want you to turn left it is typicly back up by 40 tonne of reinforced concrete.

[NEEDspeed]

You guys get on your soap boxes about Harold Scruby and the like "taking away our liberties"....but I get a sense from these types of threads it seems the enemy is closer than you think. You cant go both ways and expect people to respect your posts.

As I see it, a bitter resident put up a fake sign. Regulars to the area knew it was bogus, but the police attending had revenue on their minds and now the mistake is being rectified. Big whoop! But on here theres a 3 page (Edit: 4 now) argument about who was in the wrong. Meh. Get over yourselves.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The sign shouldnt have been erected illegally, but the motorists shouldn't take matters into their own hands be ignoring the signage, end of story.

neither should anybody take matters into their own hands and erect an illegal sign

if we all went out and erected road signs for our own personal reasons, lets say speed your commute to work and everybody did this we would have all kinds of problems, the people who placed the sign there should be penalised quite harsly, yes I can see the argument that it should have been obeyed. I do not know the area but I think road signs are to be obeyed and are to be erected by the authorities not whoever feels like it.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

neither should anybody take matters into their own hands and erect an illegal sign

.

think you need to read all the posts again....no one has endorsed, approved the person(s) responsible for the posting their own sign, and certainly many have mentioned it was not the right thing to do.

[blownv8au]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I heard this on the radio this morning and agree totally with what vztrt is saying.

Motorist drove contrary to the sign - they cop a fine.
That seems reasonable to me.

Or is it ok for a motorist to decide whether or not they think the sign is appropraite or legal or should have been there or not?

I drive through a school zone each work day that is 6 lanes wide, has little traffic at that time and clear visibility. There are no parked cars or driveways and NEVER a student to be seen. This is largely a result of it being a 'special' school of some kind where all the students arrive by car/bus/taxi and are then fenced in. Is it ok for me to decide I don't need to slow to 40kmh as there is no risk to anyone and the sign is a nonsense?

I can't imagine that standing up in court.

More power to whoever put up the sign I reckon. I'm all for a bit of public disobedience in the name of common sense. Just no point whinging about it if you then get a slap on the wrist.

more power to them, that sounds like endorsement to me

[ST]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

ill put it just before your driveway.

can you not see that it is an ILLEGAL sign?

1. illegal sign
2. people taking law into their own hands
3. innocent people getting fined


your okn with this?

I love how you put 'innocent' people getting fined in there . If the police and community did not realise for quite some time it was fake the sign must have looked legitimate, been placed logically and followed general traffic rules.

Therefore people have blatantly ignored a sign presumed legitimate at the time, which is extremely ignorant and deserves no sympathy. I'd like to see all the people who lost their cars, income, houses etc. because of this sign. You do realise if there is anyone who actually fits this description (probably not due to exaggeration from the media) they would have comitted offences prior to this, in which case they should have been cautious and obedient of ALL road rules. Who risks losing everything over one sign they are unsure of?

I certainly don't agree at all with somebody illegally erecting a traffic sign, but with the police and local council enforcing it the sign must have looked very legitimate. In which case you'd be an idiot for ignoring it.

[Ross-b]

Your missing the whole point about it
not being a road rule
no one disobayed any law in place
signs are really just there to remind us of rules and to declare certain areas where it may not be absolutely clear where a certain area starts and finish

Originally Posted by ST

I love how you put 'innocent' people getting fined in there . If the police and community did not realise for quite some time it was fake the sign must have looked legitimate, been placed logically and followed general traffic rules.

Therefore people have blatantly ignored a sign presumed legitimate at the time, which is extremely ignorant and deserves no sympathy. I'd like to see all the people who lost their cars, income, houses etc. because of this sign. You do realise if there is anyone who actually fits this description (probably not due to exaggeration from the media) they would have comitted offences prior to this, in which case they should have been cautious and obedient of ALL road rules. Who risks losing everything over one sign they are unsure of?

I certainly don't agree at all with somebody illegally erecting a traffic sign, but with the police and local council enforcing it the sign must have looked very legitimate. In which case you'd be an idiot for ignoring it.

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by Ross-b

Your missing the whole point about it
not being a road rule
no one disobayed any law in place
signs are really just there to remind us of rules and to declare certain areas where it may not be absolutely clear where a certain area starts and finish

Wow, what a stunning misconception. If a sign does not indicate a rule/law/legislation that we are asked to abide by, then why do the rozzers dole out infringements?
Too many zombies drive the roads with little or no regard for road ettiquete or posted directives.

However in the end, I think if the infringement department refunds penalties and points to those that were pinged, then that is the right thing to do, in this instance.

[iliov]

Hey people i heard its a jailable offense for messing with signs. Can anyone confirm this?

[sarrge2001]

I think that the police were justified in issuing fines (it's a part of their job) but I also think that as the sign turned out to be a fake, technically no laws were broken and so, by law - the collection of a fine was illegal and so the fines should be refunded.

Is it really that difficult??

[ST]

Originally Posted by Ross-b

Your missing the whole point about it
not being a road rule
no one disobayed any law in place
signs are really just there to remind us of rules and to declare certain areas where it may not be absolutely clear where a certain area starts and finish

...? Are you joking?

[Ross-b]

Originally Posted by ST

...? Are you joking?

actually yes

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

I think that the police were justified in issuing fines (it's a part of their job) but I also think that as the sign turned out to be a fake, technically no laws were broken and so, by law - the collection of a fine was illegal and so the fines should be refunded.

Is it really that difficult??

The people that were fined and lost points will be getting refunded and points returned.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

Wow, what a stunning misconception. If a sign does not indicate a rule/law/legislation that we are asked to abide by, then why do the rozzers dole out infringements?
Too many zombies drive the roads with little or no regard for road ettiquete or posted directives.

However in the end, I think if the infringement department refunds penalties and points to those that were pinged, then that is the right thing to do, in this instance.

would that mean there are too many zombies in the police force? just doling out fines willy nilly without possibly investigating the multitude of complaints that they would have received over a WRONG WAY GO BACK sign....on a suburban street?

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by iliov

Hey people i heard its a jailable offense for messing with signs. Can anyone confirm this?

yes.

depending on circumstances

if the theft gets linked to an accident .