6000km FG XR6T Issues... Secret Squirrel, please help

[MO]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

READ his reply.. he's getting a BRAND new entire engine... not just the failed bits replaced...
Its under warranty so anything else that goes wrong will be covered just like the engine was.....

+1....it always helps if one reads the thread before hitting the keyboard.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MO

+1....it always helps if one reads the thread before hitting the keyboard.

MO, im not sure why some are flying off at Ford/The dealer, maybe reading the thread might help them?
But from everything ive read he's not only getting looked after but a brand new engine to boot!

Sounds like a feel good dealer story to me, but some will always try to paint the dealers/Ford as villains...

[Falcon Coupe]

Seems a fantastic result to me, great to see Ford came to the party.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Seems a fantastic result to me, great to see Ford came to the party.

Well said.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

READ his reply.. he's getting a BRAND new entire engine... not just the failed bits replaced...
Its under warranty so anything else that goes wrong will be covered just like the engine was.....

I READ his reply.. I know hes getting a new engine. I should have been more precise and said components external to the engine.

If you READ above, my engine got replaced early in the cars life too. It in turn damaged the transmission and turbo.

ZF said that my third world shifting auto was acceptable. It was only when I found out that the engine had been replaced for a crank issue that could have potentially damaged the transmission pump (which would cause my problems) that Ford and ZF started taking notice I wasn't going to take their s^%t. Turns out the pump was damaged.

Took 6 months and 17,000km of driving to get that sorted. But only because I pestered them about the history of the car.

Turbo was the same. Was oil starved and had stupidly excessive play in the shaft. Had been like that since I bought it, so happened early in the piece.

I bought the car at 11,500km and the turbo and trans was reported at 13,000km. So everything was replaced prior to 30,000km.

I hope he doesn't have further problems, but it pays to know exactly what is and has happened with his car...

Originally Posted by MO

+1....it always helps if one reads the thread before hitting the keyboard.

hahaha.. I did.. Maybe you should have as well.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Excellent result their.I think I had more trouble getting my 6stacker replaced under warranty.

Id expect they have bigger fish to fry at the moment so just wait patiently for the reply regarding damage.Having a favourable service department is always a bonus,they remember the ones they kick up a fuss(not implying you do)and service may then reflect.

[castellan]

You will not ****** up a new falcon motor by giving it a hiding on the road.
As with everything new, something can go wrong it's just like a new born baby.
Ford have done the right thing. and they do not really have to say what went wrong with it. because the owner most times would not have a clue what they are on about. and they would only just go around talking nonsense about it.

[MO]

Originally Posted by arm79

I READ his reply.. I know hes getting a new engine. I should have been more precise and said components external to the engine.

If you READ above, my engine got replaced early in the cars life too. It in turn damaged the transmission and turbo.

ZF said that my third world shifting auto was acceptable. It was only when I found out that the engine had been replaced for a crank issue that could have potentially damaged the transmission pump (which would cause my problems) that Ford and ZF started taking notice I wasn't going to take their s^%t. Turns out the pump was damaged.

Took 6 months and 17,000km of driving to get that sorted. But only because I pestered them about the history of the car.

Turbo was the same. Was oil starved and had stupidly excessive play in the shaft. Had been like that since I bought it, so happened early in the piece.

I bought the car at 11,500km and the turbo and trans was reported at 13,000km. So everything was replaced prior to 30,000km.

I hope he doesn't have further problems, but it pays to know exactly what is and has happened with his car...



hahaha.. I did.. Maybe you should have as well.

I did...page1 post 9 which you would have seen if you did as claimed.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by MO

I did...page1 post 9 which you would have seen if you did as claimed.

lol... I know you did. I thought I'd just be as judgemental as your good self.

My first post was post #34.

[OzJavelin]

Sounds like a great result to me, especially the part about a NEW motor with the original engine number (although I'm not sure how they got around that legally .. but anyway??). It took me until 80,000km to convince Holden that there was something wrong with the GenIII in my VY SV8. Eventually it was EXCHANGED (excessive gudgeon-pin noise) for a rebuilt engine .. which according to it's "new" number, was actually from a VX, so ended up with an earlier engine in a later car.

Good result for the OP; new engine and all the paperwork/doco still match .. and sounds like an unusually good effort from Ford.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't see why people are jumping to such stupid conclusions.

I work for Ford and can tell you exactly what happens if an engine fails in the field, it needs to be thouroughly checked over and the problem found, to make sure the problem can be isolated and steps taken to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Its called quality control FFS.

The one guy as you say has full responsibility for finding and fixing the problem. The ECU would have been pulled to check for fault codes, what number ECU program it was running etc. This is all part of the investigative process.

Ford do not keep check of the way the owner drives by way of how many times its red lined etc. If they want to see how certain owners drive they plug a special electrical box to the ECU and log all the info. They asked my father to do it a few years ago when they were doing investigations into how the customers actually drove the cars in the real world. The standard ECU cannot do this.

The engine would now be in the engine plant and it would be in pieces. If its a problem caused by human error or some type of machining or casting fault the workers involved will be informed of what has happened and what to look out for so the issue won't happen again.

Its standard practice. The dealer was only doing what the company would have told them to do. Obviously the problem is terminal if a new long motor had to be built. It may be some type of cam timing issue if the engine was pinging on 98.

Fantastic post and 100% correct.
How is telling the customer how their engine failed going to help anyone? A customer who by the way, can potentially harm business through repeating second hand information.
It is quality control, there may be a component that has failed that ford didn't even build; yet ford would cop the drop in sales should the OP tell a few friends, who tell a few more friends, who tell a few more friends etc etc until 50,000 people think ford engines are bad - when it may not have even been a ford part that failed.

Further, ford are going one better and stamping the new engine with the old engines' numbers to ensure the OP doesn't lose resale on the non match such as the HSV with 400klm's on ls1.com.au
Sounds pretty decent to me.
Look at the error rate of these I6's. There's probably 50,000 I6T's out there since FG and what, 2 or 3 have had issues? I think we should keep our perspective in all of this.

I also think we need to get away from the idea that everything really expensive you buy will be 100% perfect. Sheesh, on customer delivery flights where an airline spends up to 400 million on an aircraft there are always long lists of imperfections such as leaking windows etc that take weeks to fix. It's standard practice, but it's also accepted industy wide. Quality control is what makes these lists shorter and shorter each time.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by arm79

I READ his reply.. I know hes getting a new engine. I should have been more precise and said components external to the engine.

If you READ above, my engine got replaced early in the cars life too. It in turn damaged the transmission and turbo.

ZF said that my third world shifting auto was acceptable. It was only when I found out that the engine had been replaced for a crank issue that could have potentially damaged the transmission pump (which would cause my problems) that Ford and ZF started taking notice I wasn't going to take their s^%t. Turns out the pump was damaged.

Took 6 months and 17,000km of driving to get that sorted. But only because I pestered them about the history of the car.

Turbo was the same. Was oil starved and had stupidly excessive play in the shaft. Had been like that since I bought it, so happened early in the piece.

I bought the car at 11,500km and the turbo and trans was reported at 13,000km. So everything was replaced prior to 30,000km.

I hope he doesn't have further problems, but it pays to know exactly what is and has happened with his car...



hahaha.. I did.. Maybe you should have as well.

No offence, but your opinions are exactly the reason Ford try to keep this information in house. I know you feel passionately about it and you have every right to; it's just that Ford know people such as your good self get on the forums and have a general whinge about it. What you're saying could be 100% true, but equally it could be 100% bollocks too. Either way, its putting a negative story about them out there in the public arena.

[QIK006]

I agree, the end result is phenominal, and I feel that I have been well looked after by the service MANAGER, it was the compete lack of Information being passed along the line, and the apparent lack of knowledge within the dealership was scarring the living **** out of me,

the dealership had had our car for 9 days when I started the thread, and had passed on zero information at that time, and only started to give information on the same day that I was informed about the replacement engine. I am still awaiting approval from Ford for an extended time courtesy car, as the courtesy car that the dealership has provided isn't suitable for our needs.

I would like to thank the guys that have offered constructive advice, it has help me gain information from the dealer, and has put a lot of the stress's that I was having to rest.

Also, a thank you to the guys @ Ford, for not dragging the investigation out, and having a better than expected outcome.

Now if only I could find out what killed it ( I am starting to think that seeing as the Missus drives it 95% of the time like she was driving miss daisy, it died from boredom)

[arm79]

Originally Posted by ltd

No offence, but your opinions are exactly the reason Ford try to keep this information in house. I know you feel passionately about it and you have every right to; it's just that Ford know people such as your good self get on the forums and have a general whinge about it. What you're saying could be 100% true, but equally it could be 100% bollocks too. Either way, its putting a negative story about them out there in the public arena.

Ford don't keep the information in house. Its on the dealers database and Ford's warranty database. All I had to do was call the selling dealer and say "on the off chance, whats the warranty history on this car..." To which I got the reply "Oh S@^t, I remember this car well." When I took that information to the dealer I was using, the service manager then told me "That made all the difference".

Here I thought forums are a place where one can go to share idea's and fixes. And this information comes from people having a problem, analysing it and getting/understanding the solution. By hiding it, it can also appear to the general public the problem is more sinister than it appears.

I don't have an issue when parts fail. Whether they be an engine or a door handle. They are all mass produced items and things go wrong. We all know the good old I6, and Falcons in general, can have common problem list as long as your arm. Its an inconvenience, but it will never stop me from buying another one.

The issue is how Ford deal with the problem, how quickly they resolve it and the inconvenience caused to the customer is what will be remembered. And if you have ever had to claim an item of decent value, that is where Ford fail. Most of the dealers and their work are awesome...

But if a/my negative story "assists" them in cleaning up their customer service act, then I'm happy to tell. Specially when a service manager tells me that my requests are not unreasonable, its just Ford themselves that make it difficult.

I'd guess Qantas would prefer you'd personally not put a negative spin on their beautiful A180's, that the thousands of people here read... But you do... But its not going to stop me wanting to fly in one. Might even be lucky enough to be driven by yourself so we could sit down and have a drink and a chat one day hey.

[xe351]

Originally Posted by QIK006

( while I wrote this, the service manager has called me and explained what they have been asked to do. Check the valve caps are up to tension, and apart from that, the engine plant has requested the PCM )

maybe get them to check the cam bolts too - a relatives new fgf6 dropped a cam bolt (stock low kms) = goodbye engine. Although i am sure this was a complete freak occurance

[QIK006]

I am sure they will pull the engine down, poke, prod, test, reassemble, and test again, & again & again once they get the engine back down to Melbourne, but seeing as they have replaced the complete engine, I don't think that it will be in a hurry anymore.

[04redxr8]

Good news Gary. Glad to hear its being fixed. Thats a good point you just made. I doubt even Ford know whats wrong with it yet, which is probably why you haven't been told anything.

I hope all is good from now on. Happy motoring.

Ned

[irlewy86]

PCM might have been thrown on a test bench for a tap root. Basically looking for the very cause of failure rather than simply replacing a failed component.

However failure anaylsis isn't an exact art, so most manufacturers are loathe to release any information untill the whole story is known. The recent "Toyota recall crisis" probably meant all dealerships were warned against "speculating" , "guessing" or any other type behaviour that might send people off half cocked.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by ltd

Fantastic post and 100% correct.
How is telling the customer how their engine failed going to help anyone? A customer who by the way, can potentially harm business through repeating second hand information.
It is quality control, there may be a component that has failed that ford didn't even build; yet ford would cop the drop in sales should the OP tell a few friends, who tell a few more friends, who tell a few more friends etc etc until 50,000 people think ford engines are bad - when it may not have even been a ford part that failed.

I agree with the general concepts you are trying to get across ltd, but i dont feel that it is quite that black and white.

Its a fine line between giving the customer the RIGHT information REGULARLY, giving too much information and keeping the customer in the dark by keeping everything in-house. In this particular case (this thread), because Ford chose to do what you are suggesting, there is now a negative thread splashed across the internet with millions of potential viewers, as opposed to potentially isolating the issue within the customers local and immediate community.

A few examples where i feel Ford sharing this information can help 'anyone':
-The customer is kept informed and therefore;
-The customer is reassured that work is progressing towards a resolution and;
-The customer is reassured that the dealership knows what it is doing and is talking about
-In this case, the customer can share their experience and knowledge so that other enthusiasts in the Ford community (and general community as a whole) benefit
-If the problem happens again, the customer knows what to look out for (in terms of symptoms)
-If the problem happens again, the customer knows what to expect and what to ask for
-The customer that handed over thousands of dollars to purchase a Ford is put at ease and is a potential repeat customer.
-The customer shares the positive and informative experience with friends and relatives leading to potential new sales for Ford
-If another major issue happens, the negative stigma surrounding it (which can lead to more threads like this) is reduced as the customer is now confident with being handled properly.
-The customer can keep an eye out for other potential issues in case they are related
-If the damage was caused by the customer, they can learn from it
-The information they receive could save lives.

The list goes on and on...i had many, many issues with by BF Turbo, but because i took my car through a competent, friendly, informative and respectful Ford dealership, i knew it would get sorted for me every time and i knew that i was a valued customer. As a result, despite the multiple issues, the negative stigma was reduced, and i now own an FG Turbo.

I agree with the rest of your post.

Originally Posted by ltd

No offence, but your opinions are exactly the reason Ford try to keep this information in house. I know you feel passionately about it and you have every right to; it's just that Ford know people such as your good self get on the forums and have a general whinge about it. What you're saying could be 100% true, but equally it could be 100% bollocks too. Either way, its putting a negative story about them out there in the public arena.

The CUSTOMER is not to blame for warranty failures. If he and others are jaded, its only because they have gone through this same experience and been burnt badly by Ford.

Ford took the PCM and will strip down the engine to learn from the technological issue. Why can't they apply the same principle by learning from the Cutomer Service issues like this?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Ford took the PCM and will strip down the engine to learn from the technological issue. Why can't they apply the same principle by learning from the Cutomer Service issues like this?

Seriously... there is no customer service issue here, the customer had a complaint, it got investigated, he got a car for free while his was out of service, the problem is now being fixed, where's the problem...?

Why do we need to make a mountain from a mole hill? By his own admission he's wrapped with how its been handled and how its panned out... :

Originally Posted by QIK006

I agree, the end result is phenominal, and I feel that I have been well looked after by the service MANAGER,

Time to close this one i think.

[MO]

@inductedbreeze,I don't see this thread as negative and I'm agreed with 4vman(not to often that happens)

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Seriously... there is no customer service issue here, the customer had a complaint, it got investigated, he got a car for free while his was out of service, the problem is now being fixed, where's the problem...?

Why do we need to make a mountain from a mole hill? By his own admission he's wrapped with how its been handled and how its panned out... :

Time to close this one i think.

I agree, now there isn't an issue. Now everyone is happy. It has turned out to be a positive thread. My comments surrounded the 9 days of silence from Ford and were direct responses to ltd's comments.

As per QIK006:

Originally Posted by QIK006

the dealership had had our car for 9 days when I started the thread, and had passed on zero information at that time, and only started to give information on the same day that I was informed about the replacement engine. I am still awaiting approval from Ford for an extended time courtesy car, as the courtesy car that the dealership has provided isn't suitable for our needs.

Go back and read the OP, this did not start as a feel good story, because of the ominous silence from Ford. This all could have been avoided through better customer service from day one. That is my point.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

I agree, now there isn't an issue. Now everyone is happy. It has turned out to be a positive thread. My comments surrounded the 9 days of silence from Ford and were direct responses to ltd's comments.

As per QIK006:



The OP is even still waiting for a courtesy car.

Go back and read the OP, this did not start as a feel good story, because of the ominous silence from Ford. This all could have been avoided through better customer service from day one. That is my point.

Look at the time frame objectively...
9 days means 2 weekends which means were talking effectively 5 working days.
For a complaint like this id say 5 days is a pretty quick turn around once you factor pulling the engine, freighting it interstate and investigating it....

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Look at the time frame objectively...
9 days means 2 weekends which means were talking effectively 5 working days.
For a complaint like this id say 5 days is a pretty quick turn around once you factor pulling the engine, freighting it interstate and investigating it....

Fair call

[tweeked]

According to the first posts, there was not silence, there was just "we do not know"

A huge difference.

If they did not know, how can you be angry for them not having a guess? What would you answer apart from what he got?

Really, in all a quick resolution which was an expensive fix for Ford. The Customer was asking a question which didn't yet have an answer. The OP only said they couldn't give him an answer, not they wouldn't talk to him.

Really those who have an issue with this would be nightmare customers.

[cedric]

a good mate of mine is the head machanic at my local ford dealer and said they could read the computer with a code of something like 'rear wheels slipping due to ice or mud' letting them know if you had been doing lots of skids. it apparently told how often this had happened. this was on ba's. i think it also regesterd how many times it tagged the rev limiter as well

[nb_351]

Originally Posted by arm79

I disagree...

QIK006, my advice to you, having been in a similar position, is find out EXACTLY what went wrong... Then monitor any components around the damaged part, as more things may/will fail because of the original problem.

why dooes he have to know exactly why and what went wrong? he didnt build the motor, nor did he pay for it to be specifically built.. if it was a performancemtor from a shop then thats different... its a mass produced item, theyll check it and test it and if the problem keeps popping its head up theyll rectify it...

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by nb_351

why dooes he have to know exactly why and what went wrong?

Probably because he paid for it and has a right to know.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Probably because he paid for it and has a right to know.

exactly. i think some people need to put themselves in the shoes of the OP!! if it was my car, with less than 10000km on the clock, i'd want to know exactly whats going on every step of the way. from what i understand, this isn't something thats transpired over a few weeks, but closer to a few months. thats a long time to be without your new car.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by nb_351

why dooes he have to know exactly why and what went wrong? he didnt build the motor, nor did he pay for it to be specifically built.. if it was a performancemtor from a shop then thats different... its a mass produced item, theyll check it and test it and if the problem keeps popping its head up theyll rectify it...

Because its his car, and he has a right to know what they do when they touch it.

Another example.

Ive been chasing all manner of vibration and balance issues on my car for the past 3 and a bit weeks. Problems started after it came back from Ford for its last warranty repair. They tell me its prob driveshaft... But driveshaft dont really make the steering wheel wobble at speed.

I've spent hundreds of $$$ getting wheels balanced and checked... Slight buckles in a couple of rims repaired... Problem still there.

Get car checked again, and and mechanic goes "Mate, your tires are all shot. Edges are all feathered and they are worn all wrong. Your alignment must be out. I can't help you" and I'm like "Those tires are only 6 weeks old, and its had 2 alignments in those 2 weeks, cant be that".

So I go home and check things. Right front tie rod lock bolt tight. Left front loose, needed another 1/3 turn to tighten. Rear toe bolts appear tight, but left rear indicator shows toe is at its extreme.

Get an alignment yesterday and find front left toe is +1.8mm. Rear left toe is -2.1mm and rear right toe is +2.1mm. All should be +0.8ish. So either someones alignment machine is rooted, or they didn't tighten all the lock bolts properly.

Now, if I didn't ask and didn't have Ford tell me that when my car was last there they did a 4 wheel alignment, I would never have believed the mechanic that told me I have an alignment problem. I would tomorrow be going to discuss (read yell at) someones stuff up with the wrong person.

So armed with what I have now found, I'll be going to the dealer tomorrow to discuss my now rooted tires. If thats not a good reason to demand to know exactly what any dealer or mechanic does to your car, I don't know what is.

This knowledge all put together has helped me diagnose and understand a problem, and where and why it started.

I've had dealers charge me for wheel rotations, brake fluid swaps, manifold/turbo retorquing etc, etc but were nevrer physically done. If I had never ASKED what they had done for their money, I would never have known that they didn't do it.