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28-02-2016, 09:19 PM | #61 | ||
If it ain't broke........
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28-02-2016, 09:42 PM | #62 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Ideally we wouldnt have to have a defense force, but i cant see that happening anytime soon. A defense force is like insurance you hope you never need it but if you do its there.
To answer the questions on subs i would prefer we build them here. We learnt a lot from building Collins and it seems wrong to throw that away. Yes Collins had their problems (as did just about every other military project world wide. If you want the best you need to push boundaries and in doing so problems will arise. Interesting to note Collins class performed very well against a well defended US carrier. Also interesting to compare the cost of the Collins class to the cost of these new subs
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28-02-2016, 09:46 PM | #63 | |||
Lyminge, Shepway, Kent
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28-02-2016, 09:52 PM | #64 | |||
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If we were to go down that path i would suggest we would need to spend more on secure communication and systems that cant be hacked
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28-02-2016, 11:02 PM | #65 | |||
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29-02-2016, 12:17 AM | #66 | ||
formerly ford3000gt
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Location: Buderim, Qld
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What should be in the package is a flight of say 20 F-35Bs for our 2 new aircraft carriers, HMASs Canberra and Adelaide. I also believe that we should go nuclear for our submarines, whether new or US old stock!
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29-02-2016, 01:28 AM | #67 | |||
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edit. never mind. wiki tells me this started way back in 2009....its a long process aparently. Last edited by 1TUFFUTE; 29-02-2016 at 01:53 AM. |
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29-02-2016, 05:48 AM | #68 | ||
Beaut Ute
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria.
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Agree totally.They're nuclear powered, and we could've even bought them off the shelf for less than $4 billion each for a "sail-away" price, which is around a billion bucks less per unit than if we partially build 'em in South Australia. And our home-made subs would still be diesel-powered! If we bought the US subs, we'd also have access to their trainers, (we don't have any nuclear training here) and interoperability in the field.
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29-02-2016, 06:16 AM | #69 | ||||||
Beaut Ute
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29-02-2016, 07:56 AM | #70 | |||
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29-02-2016, 02:55 PM | #71 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Other nations do National Service, and we can't ? I am all for some sort of education and discipline as a people of what to do if we were attacked and so on. I can't talk about it all the way I would want to, because we are all under Political Correct Nazi controls. The laws now work so as not to offend anyone nowadays and as you say their is problems in training, now why is that ? It's all got to do with the New Age derelict weaklings that control us nowadays. Look at all the problems around us nowadays with spoilt brats who don't have a father and the single mum has no hope of controlling a boy out of control and what's more the problem is that the government supports the creation of brats. I have seen it with so many kids like such that wilful destruction is their life, drugs sleeping most of the day, go out bashing people in a mob and so on and on. No Boot Camp is the way and then into the army, even if it's just digging a hole 4 days a week and filling it in on Friday, it works wonders and in the end you have a human not a moron. |
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29-02-2016, 03:35 PM | #72 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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If you have the time or are man enough to read through all of what Major Bernard Gaynor says in his blog, you may wake up to the wimpy ..... we have had running the show. Last edited by nuthin' fancy; 29-02-2016 at 03:46 PM. |
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29-02-2016, 03:46 PM | #73 | |||
Lyminge, Shepway, Kent
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I have no military background (unles three months in Air Cadets counts for anything) but it seems to me that some of the strength of the group comes from not accommodating difference but forming a disparate group into a single entity (as far as this can be achieved). I wonder if the current accommodation of diversity is about making the ADF a more attractive place to work, rather than building a more effective force. Or is it that the military of the future is more about individual contribution and not a physical force in the field.
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Mel Brooks sums it up best; "Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die, tragedy is when I get a paper cut" Last edited by nuthin' fancy; 29-02-2016 at 04:42 PM. |
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29-02-2016, 05:32 PM | #74 | |||
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1. Finding a government that'll have the balls to implement National Service. The Greens or Labor balk at conscription let alone National Service even if an invading nation were half way across the country and gaining momentum. 2. Since we last dropped National Service we'll need to find the budget to build or re-build the facilities again to handle and support the continual numbers of troops, pay for travel, weapons, wages, uniforms, maintaining the system etc etc. Because successive governments have let the basics on most bases slide in the ADF since we last had National Service and now the ADF needs major injections of cash to bring it to a standard where it can operate properly. Don't know where you served but spend a few months at RAAF Base Richmond, Williamtown, Point Cook etc. You'll get an idea how bad living quarters and most work facilities on base have been allowed to deteriorate in the last few decades. And I guarantee things haven't improved in the 5 years since I last served. 3. Letting those in charge do their job without being interfered by over the top political correctness from certain political influences. Australia has become much more a multi cultural and tolerant society since we last had National Service. For National Service to work it's going to need both cultural and attitude changes both in and out of the ADF and that won't happen overnight. National Service is possible and in some cases it's well needed. But the ADF must be allowed to run it their way. Good luck finding a government to implement and pay for it though. |
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29-02-2016, 06:02 PM | #75 | ||
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29-02-2016, 07:11 PM | #76 | |||
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29-02-2016, 07:40 PM | #77 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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im on the dole m8
i got no time for national service work for the dole?? you gave me a sore back?? pension?? pass me da bong bruzza straya m8 |
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29-02-2016, 07:40 PM | #78 | |||
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Bernard knows who they are and can speak there language as his job was intelligence. From what I can see is that the running of the show of our ADF is doing a whole load of nonsense that adds up to nothing but a wast of time and money. The whole thing in the mid east is getting out of hand and it never had to keep going on like it is, it's going to get a whole lot worse due to foolishness of the west. I think it's a bigger game plan to all this and we are being taken for chumps as we are losing our freedoms and rights as this rubbish unfolds. |
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29-02-2016, 08:23 PM | #79 | ||
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its unfortunate to learn that labor let things slide and now we have to play catch up. every now and then i heard that china is not happy with this and that, like the Dali lama and Australia / Japanese relations, war games with these nations in international waters, whinge, whinge.. i guess china feels they cam exert some influence over Australia, i would hate to see ozzy pollies bending over for them. and china pushing around smaller Asian nations cause they can, totally wrong. no wonder adf is nervice. didn,t the chinese buy an old american air craft carrier on the agreement that they were to decommission it, only to turn around and put it into service (correct me if im wrong). in china there,s been a big witch hunt for corrupt heads, it was in the news, these,s a lot of corruption i understand. well , i wouldn,t trust them as far as i could kick one.
it least the ship building will get some work out of it. Last edited by Pis-ton broke; 29-02-2016 at 08:30 PM. |
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29-02-2016, 09:12 PM | #80 | |||
Experienced Member
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Have a look at the bigger picture. |
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29-02-2016, 11:51 PM | #81 | ||
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As you say there is a big picture......but as an eg.....when I was an apprentice, there was a teacher who was some colonel or major in the army, he was working as a teacher while he took backed up long service leave.
Now this guy was absolutely useless, he couldn't even organise 12 people in a mature docile builders class! I'd honestly say nearly half the class had better leadership abilities then this useless muppet. Really nice guy but agonisingly useless! My head hurts just remembering the mess he'd get in just trying to organise the projector while doing a role call.... The guys used to joke that if the brass was that bad in the army then Australia is screwed. Anyway just one eg. I'm sure there's great leaders to balance out the dud ones Actually, I'd put forward the Q....how did he get into a leadership role in the first place??? |
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01-03-2016, 07:19 AM | #82 | ||
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By tolerant, I meant the ADF was forced to change it's tolerance toward different races, homosexuality, religious needs etc etc. Stuff that wasn't a real concern the last time we had National Service. Australia is a far different country to what it was in the 50's to early 70's.
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01-03-2016, 08:33 AM | #83 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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01-03-2016, 08:44 AM | #84 | ||
Thailand Specials
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You know there probably wouldn't have been such an issue if we stopped destabilising the Middle East for our own purposes.
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01-03-2016, 08:47 AM | #85 | |||
Beaut Ute
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On a side note, one of Gaynor's main editorial conduits, Paul Sheehan, was last week rebuked and forced to apologise via The Sydney Morning Herald a week after it printed a column by Sheehan about an alleged gang rape in Sydney (the fictional "Louise") which he later acknowledged had never occurred, and which he had not attempted to research. His article detailed an alleged group attack on a nurse who was left unsupported by police and other services, then freefell into a story of gross error and incompetence, along with charges of racially biased hysteria, which was most likely inculcated by Islamophobic groups. Doesn't it concern you that one of Gaynor's supporters is also one of Australia's most reviled and ridiculed reporters? So... can you please provide your own evidential sources for your claims that our ADF employs "stupid traitors" and that the ADF is "treating Aussies as 2nd-rate people", and that they're "pushing good people around"? Facts and figures thank you. No hearsay allowed.
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01-03-2016, 08:50 AM | #86 | ||
Beaut Ute
Join Date: Dec 2015
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"Army intelligence" is a classic oxymoron.
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01-03-2016, 08:51 AM | #87 | ||
Lyminge, Shepway, Kent
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Location: Geelong - Go Cats
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Let's keep the discussion to the 2016 white paper, rather than expanded conversation now occurring (yes, I know, I've gone off track in previous posts too).
The thread is heading down a path not really suited to this car enthusiasts' forum.
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Mel Brooks sums it up best; "Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die, tragedy is when I get a paper cut" |
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01-03-2016, 11:05 AM | #88 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Do you know what you are talking about ? Have you read everything Bernard has put forward, no I don't believe you do at all, not to mention could you be slandering the man making such foolish statements that are not true at all. your not talking about some dumb low rank person here you know. Have you ever talked to the man, no you have not. The fact is that Major Bernard Gaynor has done nothing wrong and has been cleared of any wrong doing by the ADF. It's sadly the case that he had to fight such moronic clowns in the first place, can you understand that. He stood his ground like a true man and did not back down to grubby underhanded grubby tactics to push him around. He was doing the correct thing by the book, not to mention who it was doing the wrong things evidently and the gutless sick way they treated him is a total disgrace and it goes to show how degenerate the ADF is run. I could go happily on and on about all this till the cows come home, but hey I am not allowed to voice my opinion hear, as socialist Nazi types don't like freedom of speech when it points them out for what they truly are. If anyone wants to carry it on further go to Bernard's blog and see how you go. go on and see if you are man enough to have a real go. |
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01-03-2016, 11:42 AM | #89 | |||
Banned
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I agree with Castellan's general argumentative direction but I do agree he could express himself a little less aggressively... |
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01-03-2016, 11:54 AM | #90 | |||
Lyminge, Shepway, Kent
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Please post a link to the blog.
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Mel Brooks sums it up best; "Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die, tragedy is when I get a paper cut" |
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