Ford: "We will never outsell Commodore again"

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Holden run 2 shifts and 2 lines.

The first line is for the Commodore, the 2nd line (new one) is for the Cruze.

The 2 shifts are in place to meet supply demands on the cars.

So Holden don't run 2 shifts just to cater for the Cruze and Commodore (and it's variances)

Then please explain why this time last year, Holden had it two crews on half work half pay?
Now I'm no Einstein but Commodore numbers haven't jumped that much in 12 months....
And Holden have openly said that starting the Cruze line would allow the second shift to recommence
which it did quite a few months ago but in any case, Holden believes there's a dollar in and that all that matters..


The point I was making is that Ford's business is not a parallel copy of Holden's minus one shift,
the economics are completely different and that's what the two sets of fans have to understand.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Thats actualy surprising. They had 4000 less overall sales but about 700 more private sales. Maybe people are taking notice of Falcon. Need to get the fleets back though.

Problem is the I6 can't really become a fleet option for many (this is were the 3L was good) but EB and LPi should claw some back.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

LOL, exporting Falcons to china is an "interesting" concept..
The base XR6 costs 35K here, no way around that, even with more sales, so try over 50K once its landed in china; the country with the cheapest manufacturing base in the world, the country manufacturing and selling cars for 10-15K....
Yep, what are Ford thinking..

That's what went through my head...when the Chinese can export and sell a dual cab Ute with four wheel drive, leath guts, and all sorts of comfort features for half the price of a Hilux, what hope would a Falcon have over there at the price it would have to be sold at?
Then again, remember the expose many years ago that showed that the locally assembled Ford Capri was being sold in America for half the price they were being sold here...?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

That's what went through my head...when the Chinese can export and sell a dual cab Ute with four wheel drive, leath guts, and all sorts of comfort features for half the price of a Hilux, what hope would a Falcon have over there at the price it would have to be sold at?

Cars a cheap when your R&D is little to none.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by prydey

the falcon v commodore thing is getting so old that even the manufacturers agree. its just a handful of people on an enthusiast forum that compare sales each month and then bang on like little school kids about which one is better and how much better they could be if they were running the show. most of these members will never buy a new car anyway, let alone a new falcon of any sort!

GM Holden has higher overheads than Ford. they need to sell more cars to make it work. they are on 2 shifts as opposed to 1.

for me, the article wasn't saying we need a wagon, it was just saying that the commodore wagon has increased the sales of the name commodore, which they can't match with just the falcon brand. ford offer wagon in mondeo, and also territory. don't like it, then buy something you do like. plenty on offer out there. just don't whinge on a forum that the falcon doesn't come in every deriviative on the market. Ford stopped being the 'falcon' car company some years ago. they are here to sell fords, and are doing reasonably well it would seem.

Good point, whilst a few traditional ford and gm fans argue, the younger gen buy Euro hot hatches or rice... sad days.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by stevz

Its probably got more to do with the fact that they have been throwing them out the door for next to nothing than anything else.

What holden don`t discount . The same people that said they were going to stop discounting. The same people that can`t make money on their cars even though they sell twice as much as Ford.

[jpd80]

I still recon build the next Mondeo locally and forget about what the critics say,
another 500-600/mth at +30K has to be better than the Focus business case.
That would free us from Ford Europe's long distance ordering and waiting lists.

[kpcart]

Originally Posted by prydey

see, looks are a very personal thing. what one person finds attractive, the next person finds ugly.

personally i think the ve looks like it fell out the ugly tree and hit every branch except one on the way down. holden weren't happy that it missed a branch so they made the sporthatch. got every branch with that one.

thats my personal opinion on looks.

so if you hate the VE, you obviously hate the FG, as it looks very similar. according to sales, you are in a minority, the VE has been a sales success (especially when compared to fords product), and the styling has been such a success that they have not changed it in 5 years.

styling is not a personal thing, it can be judged by sales, and obiously Holdens is a timeless design, and a winner.

I would love to drive a car with the Holden chassis and styling combined with the ford driveline. that would be a perfect aussie car.

[jpd80]

Sales are not the issue, profitability is.

Both Ford and Holden have been doing it really tough in the past five years,
Holden win the sales crown but have precious little profit to show for it
and Ford have cut themselves bare to the bone to avoid losses.....

And yes a blend of Commodore and Falcon probably makes the perfect Aussie big car,
it's just getting agreement on what blend to suit the most buyers but would be decried
as sacrilege to the one eyed fans from both camps....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by kpcart

so if you hate the VE, you obviously hate the FG, as it looks very similar. .

yep, 4 wheels at each corner, 4 doors, boot, bonnet, etc. basically identical.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by kpcart

styling is not a personal thing, it can be judged by sales

That it can be judged by sales would be true if styling was the ONLY criterion that buyers considered.
But even then it would still be a personal thing, just a personal thing that can be measured.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by kpcart

styling is not a personal thing, it can be judged by sales, and obiously Holdens is a timeless design, and a winner.

Porsche & Farrari clearly have a styling problem then!!!

Anyone saying styling it NOT a personal thign is just being silly because they are trying to win an argument!!

[jphanna]

the last time ford went 'bold' with styling, was the AU, and although i like the T series immensely, it it widely known as fords greatest styling disaster. the BA/BF was a 'tidyup' of the AU Shell. the FG looks like a modern version of the BA/BF, despite the fact its a different shell. its clearly related to the previous model. with the VE apart from some aspects of the grill similar to VZ...was a clean sheet design, and it shows.

[stang65]

[QUOTE=kpcart]so if you hate the VE, you obviously hate the FG, as it looks very similar. according to sales, you are in a minority, the VE has been a sales success (especially when compared to fords product), and the styling has been such a success that they have not changed it in 5 years.

styling is not a personal thing, it can be judged by sales, and obiously Holdens is a timeless design, and a winner.

I would love to drive a car with the Holden chassis and styling combined with the ford driveline. that would be a perfect aussie

Spoken by a true Holden enthusiast, wrong forum mate although you are welcome when you have something of value unlike every other thread you go on about holden.

[PunkXR6]

Heres an idea FoMoCo,
Make cars that dont **** themselves after 150,000km.
Keep the 6, DI it, add more plastic bits
Weight reduction = Better Fuel Economy, Talk to your mates at Mazda
Pretty Colours like the BA 1&2.
Bring back the wagon, Builders/Cabbies/Coppers use them
Export FPV's to the Middle East and China, Start small


and tell the Yanks where to stick it.
Lift your game FoMoCoAu

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by kpcart

so if you hate the VE, you obviously hate the FG, as it looks very similar..

I have at times mistaken a VE for an FG and vice versa from a distance. I miss the days from say 10 years ago (VT/VX vs AU) where you could tell the difference between the styling of a Commodore and a Falcon even from a mile away.

I guess it's like most new cars. Designers are far more conservative and cars that are competing with each other all seem to follow a similar styling outline, but that seems to be the market these days.

The VE and FG are both nice looking cars. I've still never really warmed up to the FG ute though.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Then please explain why this time last year, Holden had it two crews on half work half pay?
Now I'm no Einstein but Commodore numbers haven't jumped that much in 12 months....
And Holden have openly said that starting the Cruze line would allow the second shift to recommence
which it did quite a few months ago but in any case, Holden believes there's a dollar in and that all that matters..


The point I was making is that Ford's business is not a parallel copy of Holden's minus one shift,
the economics are completely different and that's what the two sets of fans have to understand.

Car makers in general weren't selling cars, all over the world. This is the main reason why Holden only had the day shift running. One week the day shift workers would work, the next week, the night shift workers would work. The weeks that the workers weren't on, they were on half pay.

The company also offered reduncy packages to their employees, due to the down turn in sales. Since production has increased, the shifts have come back on line properly (ie day and night shift)and they have employed more staff. And yes, there is 2 seperate lines operating with both shifts.

So bottom line is, car makers look at the profit line and decide how to go about production

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Good point, whilst a few traditional ford and gm fans argue, the younger gen buy Euro hot hatches or rice... sad days.

Why is it sad?

[jmack]

bit hard to fight when the mother company ties one hand behind there backs.protecting us jobs first unlike gm/holden to a lesser degree

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Why is it sad?

The car culture is changing.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by kpcart

so if you hate the VE, you obviously hate the FG, as it looks very similar. according to sales, you are in a minority, the VE has been a sales success (especially when compared to fords product), and the styling has been such a success that they have not changed it in 5 years.

The only reason the styling hasn't been changed is because Holden were broke and couldn't afford it. Sheetmetal upgrades were supposed to happen a year or 2 ago, but they had to cancel it, hence the series 2 only had a new front bar.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by MethodX

The car culture is changing.

It is, that's true and it always has been changing over time. Though I think now it is far more diverse.
Ford have a good advantage with options in just about all markets.
The V8 sedans and utes, the 6 turbo sedans and utes and the hot hatch market. All of which they have a good opportunity in.

I think the best decision they made was to finally bring the RS focus out here, a little late and may be a tad expensive but it furthed what the ST/XR5T had done, brought a halo car to that segment.

Now Ford need to use that experience and with the Focus3 out need to jump at the opportunity to get some ST & RS Focus out here as soon as they're released and not sit on it.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The only reason the styling hasn't been changed is because Holden were broke and couldn't afford it. Sheetmetal upgrades were supposed to happen a year or 2 ago, but they had to cancel it, hence the series 2 only had a new front bar.

And its still selling more than Falcon, isnt that worrying.

Ironic that this statement has been released by Ford.
When Holden announced the Sportswagon certain members here questioned its merit as they claimed it would simply steal numbers from its sedan stablemate.
Clearly, with this announcement, the Sportswagon has been justified.
Holden never set out to create a new market with the SW, it just secured its customer base.
It is decisions like this which have kept the place open in shaky times.

Now before anyone goes off half cocked about me being a Holden lover etc. etc. i happen to have many mates who rely on the place to put food on the table.
Believe it or not, outside this forum, in the real world there are good people making tough decisions to keep the show rolling on, not some 'muppets' as its cool to envision them...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And its still selling more than Falcon, isnt that worrying.

Ironic that this statement has been released by Ford.
When Holden announced the Sportswagon certain members here questioned its merit as they claimed it would simply steal numbers from its sedan stablemate.

It did exactly that but as you said further on,

Clearly, with this announcement, the Sportswagon has been justified.
Holden never set out to create a new market with the SW, it just secured its customer base.
It is decisions like this which have kept the place open in shaky times.

Similarly, Geoff Polites saw the station wagon buyers going over to SUVs and decided to follow them with the Territory.
I would say that Ford and Holden were both successful in diversifying product that secured existing buyers.

I wonder, would Holden have still developed Sportwagon without the potential for export sales,
that after all was why it was developed in the first place before Pontiac reneged leaving Holden in the soup...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It did exactly that but as you said further on,


Similarly, Geoff Polites saw the station wagon buyers going over to SUVs and decided to follow them with the Territory.
I would say that Ford and Holden were both successful in diversifying product that secured existing buyers.

Which would underline my last paragraph.

Although many like to think the people running GMH are idiots they are infact actually making a silk purse from a sows ear in that in reality it is an inferior product to the Falcon yet they manage to flog enough to outsell Ford and keep their jobs.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The only reason the styling hasn't been changed is because Holden were broke and couldn't afford it. Sheetmetal upgrades were supposed to happen a year or 2 ago, but they had to cancel it, hence the series 2 only had a new front bar.

You haven't looked real well at them then. Bit more than the front bar was changed panel wise.

Explain why Ford only changed the front guards and headlights, when it came to the BA BF transition, panel wise. Because they were broke as well?

Simple fact is, car makers all round the world are just finding their feet again, so they will only make minimal changes with model upgrades so they can save a bit of coin. But you can bet, once the coin starts rolling in, all car makers will start the big upgrades.

[z80]

The simple fact is that if it has 4 litres or more of engine capacity or if it has 6 or more cylinders it is regarded as a relative gas guzzler.

Both Holden and Ford have been polishing turds for far too long.

Imports are offering a lot of value for money in our strong currency at the moment.

[LTDHO]

I can see AFF as a dedicated forum to remember the motor company that once were, but are now gone.

Mr ford, you have released some awesomr cars in your time, it's going to be sad to see you go. But you only have yourself to blame.

[rabbit4ever]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

You haven't looked real well at them then. Bit more than the front bar was changed panel wise.

Explain why Ford only changed the front guards and headlights, when it came to the BA BF transition, panel wise. Because they were broke as well?

Simple fact is, car makers all round the world are just finding their feet again, so they will only make minimal changes with model upgrades so they can save a bit of coin. But you can bet, once the coin starts rolling in, all car makers will start the big upgrades.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

You haven't looked real well at them then. Bit more than the front bar was changed panel wise.

What else was changed?