You Don't own MY Reality

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

In my personal opinion, if you were born with an Y chromosome, you are a Man.

it was annoying me had to fix it, OCD..

XX female, XY male,,

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

No but my fiance has.

Tell us your experience of being a gay man. I’m genuinely interested.

I don't have OCD (I'm perfectly normal, and that's the story I'm sticking to)... But did Bossxr8 just "come out"? Maybe he meant fiancee? I don't want to assume anything though, each to their own...

But someone didn't want to debate until the question was answered, and as it's written, it looks answered to me, but then someone didn't want to argue anyway even with the question answered. I mean, it could be misspelled, it could be correct, looks like someone was making assumptions about others to me?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by leesa

I'm not going to try convince you that women, gay men, non-mechanically-minded men, minorities and others often get spoken down to by some/many mechanics with big egos. You're clearly not open to the possibility and it's triggered you into wanting to argue, but I'm not up for arguing about it. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Show me where i said it doesn’t happen? I just pointed out your continued habit of painting all men with the same brush. Your views on men are as archaic as the men who treat women as beneath them. And you are always trying to bring your dislike of men into these type of threads.

Surely reddit has a sub forum you can join in with fellow misandrists?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

I don't have OCD (I'm perfectly normal, and that's the story I'm sticking to)... But did Bossxr8 just "come out"? Maybe he meant fiancee? I don't want to assume anything though, each to their own...

But someone didn't want to debate until the question was answered, and as it's written, it looks answered to me, but then someone didn't want to argue anyway even with the question answered. I mean, it could be misspelled, it could be correct, looks like someone was making assumptions about others to me?

I’m not gay. But yeah leesa making assumptions about others is her m.o. All male mechanics hate women and gays according to her

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Show me where i said it doesn’t happen? I just pointed out your continued habit of painting all men with the same brush.

You're making assumptions, I quite clearly never said all men. I think you've just got an axe to grind.
If you can't debate it as it's written then what is there to respond to? You're making claims that I never made.

[slowsnake]

Geez it's 3:30 pm here in Perth and it's stopped raining, now i can go for a walk in da Park, will stop at my mate and gay neighbour Kevin's place to see if he wants me to walk his little dog, its a Pug, his other dog was put down last week a 15 yr old Jack Russel, I am the only straight male friend he has, he quiet and pretty cool.

But just thought I would let y'all know that it's nice in Perth and hope the sun shines through the clouds, and how if a gay plumber offered me a gay flag to hold I would decline, especially if he's in his work clobber, if he asked why, I would tell him the truth, which is that I won't take a flag that he has touched in case "his hand has been around a tool that's been in a sewer pipe"

That may be taken as a double entendre, or not



Cheers William

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Feathers

That's not quite what Leesa was saying though.

As an example; if a woman walks into a doctor's surgery tomorrow, and asks about getting her tubes tied, the doctor will most likely deny her request, especially if she's under 45 and has not had a child already.

The doctor will refuse the request, not because it's unreasonable, or unethical, but because at some time in the future, she may find herself a husband who wants kids.
That's far more important than the woman's quality of life though, right? The possibility that someone else might want to breed with them at an unspecified time in the future.

Meanwhile, her same aged, hypothetical, future husband could request a vasectomy right now, and his doctor would allow it, with very little fuss.

..

Are you sure about this?

I had a work colleague who wanted to get a vasectomy and the doctor refused for the same reasons that you stated against women.

In my experiences also, which I acknowledge are not exactly the same, but if a couple want to have a more permanent form of contraception within their relationship I have found that doctors are advocating that the male get a vasectomy and not the female having her tubes cut and tied.

[PG2]

leesa

I generally don't mind your posts as they give a different perspective.

I've got to admit though, some of your posts lately have had some generalisations in them that I read as "All men..."

I'll use this statement as an example...

I'm not going to try convince you that women, gay men, non-mechanically-minded men, minorities and others often get spoken down to by some/many mechanics with big egos. You're clearly not open to the possibility and it's triggered you into wanting to argue, but I'm not up for arguing about it. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I haven't found anyone saying that it does not happen, in fact, I think that most would acknowledge that it does happen. How often? Who knows for sure. Going along the lines of 'you are not a female how would you know' unless you have spoken to over half of the mechanics in Australia in the last few years you are not completely qualified to make that assumption as well.

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by leesa

Most men have been conditioned into not being able to express any emotion other than anger as that's the only socially-acceptable one but it doesn't fly anymore.

Yeah, but it all pretty much started with most men. And it's quite possible that was because you were excluding the ones that identify differently.

My IT computer geek mates (over the past 40 years, with more and more students being interested in that area over the years, where I was very early) would look at your original argument and think you're clearly off this planet. Sure, at school in the 80's, there were a few males as you describe them, hmm, they left school at year 10 though where most continued. Year 11, there was only one or two and they didn't last. That's more than 30 years ago.

Some people do bring out the worst in others though. Like someone making the comment in the quote above. It's complete garbage.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Yeah, but it all pretty much started with most men. And it's quite possible that was because you were excluding the ones that identify differently.

My IT computer geek mates (over the past 40 years, with more and more students being interested in that area over the years, where I was very early) would look at your original argument and think you're clearly off this planet. Sure, at school in the 80's, there were a few males as you describe them, hmm, they left school at year 10 though where most continued. Year 11, there was only one or two and they didn't last. That's more than 30 years ago.

Some people do bring out the worst in others though. Like someone making the comment in the quote above. It's complete garbage.

What was so offensive in my quote?

[JasonACT]

You edited your post after I submitted mine! I was referring to the "Most men..." quote!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by leesa

You're making assumptions, I quite clearly never said all men. I think you've just got an axe to grind.
If you can't debate it as it's written then what is there to respond to? You're making claims that I never made.

The irony of this is off the scale. Your axe to grind against men, and brazen claims that generalise all men as mysoginistic over and over again is what grinds my gears. Your views about men are completely archaic and deserve to be left back in the 60’s.

Originally Posted by JasonACT

My IT computer geek mates (over the past 40 years, with more and more students being interested in that area over the years, where I was very early) would look at your original argument and think you're clearly off this planet. Sure, at school in the 80's, there were a few males as you describe them, hmm, they left school at year 10 though where most continued. Year 11, there was only one or two and they didn't last. That's more than 30 years ago.

Which original argument? The one about pink ethernet cables? If so, okay that's great but my own experience in the IT industry is otherwise, I've witnessed it first hand else I wouldn't have said it. Perhaps it comes down to dudes acting differently around women than around other men but in my experience, pink ethernet cables are kryptonite to a guy who's trying to look masculine. It's low-key hilarious.

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by leesa

Which original argument?

I understand your confusion, you have had so many "must be told on this particular forum" experiences, it might be hard to keep track.

The one where you generalised about "Most men" only being able to express anger due to their conditioning.

We've got plenty of pink cables at work, nobody cares, I mean seriously? Probably though, might be better to not bring out the worst in others by mentioning one off instances of stuff like this. For all I know, someone in IT knows you all too well, so goes out of their way to stir you up.

Originally Posted by JasonACT

The one where you generalised about "Most men" only being able to express anger due to their conditioning.

That's not what I said. What I said is that most men have been conditioned by society that anger is only socially-acceptable emotion for them. Boys are told that they can't cry and that they have to harden up. Yes plenty of men have broken through that rigid boundary but most adult men have been raised in that manner.

That's not something I'm just claiming, it seems to be pretty well accepted in scientific and psychological circles. I'm surprised anyone is denying that.

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/art...their_feelings

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...-cry-1.4006399

https://medium.com/family-matters-2/...y-9ad2bb6fd954

https://www.apa.org/pi/about/newslet...ng-masculinity

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by leesa

That's not what I said. What I said is that most men have been conditioned by society that anger is only socially-acceptable emotion for them. Boys are told that they can't cry and that they have to harden up. Yes plenty of men have broken through that rigid boundary but most adult men have been raised in that manner.

That's not something I'm just claiming, it seems to be pretty well accepted in scientific and psychological circles. I'm surprised anyone is denying that.

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/art...their_feelings

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...-cry-1.4006399

https://medium.com/family-matters-2/...y-9ad2bb6fd954

https://www.apa.org/pi/about/newslet...ng-masculinity

There we go again. “Most men”. Are you done generalising now?

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by leesa

That's not what I said. What I said is that most men have been conditioned by society that anger is only socially-acceptable emotion for them.

Well, no, I quoted you directly...

Originally Posted by leesa

Most men have been conditioned into not being able to express any emotion other than anger as that's the only socially-acceptable one but it doesn't fly anymore.

I took many theoretical logic classes at Uni, as part of my science degree, it is effectively what you said. In other classes, I also learned that what is said is often not quite what is meant. Along with, what is heard is often not quite what is said. And a bunch of other stuff that I don't care to remember.

Anyway, I still think it's rubbish.

But...

Had you said "Most men are being conditioned" and not "have been"... Then...

"Most men" only being able to express anger due to their conditioning.

Would not have been my conclusion.

Still rubbish though. Very old ideas.

Originally Posted by JasonACT

"Most men" only being able to express anger due to their conditioning.

Would not have been my conclusion.

Still rubbish though. Very old ideas.

Yes they are old ideas, that's kind of my point.
Men alive today say between 20 - 90 years old so we're talking about a viewpoint from at least 20 years ago and at most 90. They were quite different to how kids are raised today, hence the "it doesn't fly anymore".
If you don't agree that's the childhood that most men went through back then - that they weren't permitted to cry but that expressing anger was ok - I guess we'll just leave it at that.

bossxr8, you can get triggered all you like at my referencing "most men" in that context but feel free to tell me how I'm wrong, it'd be more productive tbh.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by leesa

Yes they are old ideas, that's kind of my point.
Men alive today say between 20 - 90 years old so we're talking about a viewpoint from at least 20 years ago and at most 90. They were quite different to how kids are raised today, hence the "it doesn't fly anymore".
If you don't agree that's the childhood that most men went through back then - that they weren't permitted to cry but that expressing anger was ok - I guess we'll just leave it at that.

bossxr8, you can get triggered all you like at my referencing "most men" in that context but feel free to tell me how I'm wrong, it'd be more productive tbh.

No point arguing with a man hater stuck in the 60’s. Enjoy your stereotyping and bitterness. I’m out.

lol ok. i'm also happy to leave it at that, it's gotten a bit more serious than intended.

[Cav]

MY REALITY ...

I'm good lookin'

So there

Check out my avatar youse dumb ugly sheilas.

[JasonACT]

In my mind, I'm beating them off with a stick too Cav.

Not sure why my stick isn't long enough tho?

[prydey]

Kind of funny that this thread started as someone being against the 'thought police', which is fine. Everyone is allowed to have their own thoughts. The thread then got hijacked and kind of went the path of the exact opposite.

These are my thoughts and how dare you have different ones.

[JC]

Originally Posted by burnz

see if i can help,,
cloning; using your cells to grow/create an organ/appendage (mouse as host,,3D printer another)

IVF; using her egg with a donor seed..

we already have artificial humans; man made eggs and seed in artificial womb..

My twins are IVF. Her egg, my seed.

[JC]

Originally Posted by leesa

It would be simple if people were treated the same regardless of what their plumbing is. Gender stereotypes are a problem and plenty of people are tired of being conditioned and told they cant do a/b/c because they're male or x/y/z because theyre female.
I really don't blame people for trying to assign themselves new genders, but really I think what would be a better solution is to dismantle the stereotypes and roles associated with genders rather than invent new genders to shoehorn themselves into.

There are 2 genders. Male and female. If you are moving from one to the other, you are in transition, which is part of a process of moving from M to F or vice versa. It is not a gender.

If you are queer, gay, lesbian, whatever, that is not gender, that is sexual preference. And who cares what your preference is.

[Charliewool]

Not going to further “poke the bear” (Germaine, the man-hater)…. She is already aware that I’m awake to her continual anti-men trolling…
What I will comment on is vasectomies..
Got mine as a 40th B/day pressie from then wifey… We both saw it as a more preferable procedure, than the more invasive female alternative….
The procedure itself was simple enough.. 1 snip, 20 mins all done, and back to the pub!
The lead up appointment a week before was quite involved however!
Virtually a mini psych evaluation detailing how the procedure is rarely successfully reversible, and consequences of said “snip job”…. This carried out a week beforehand to give you time to think it properly through.
So definitely NOT treated as lightly as Feathers mentioned!
This was 25 yrs ago too, so probably even more stringent nowadays?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Not going to further “poke the bear” (Germaine, the man-hater)…. She is already aware that I’m awake to her continual anti-men trolling…
What I will comment on is vasectomies..
Got mine as a 40th B/day pressie from then wifey… We both saw it as a more preferable procedure, than the more invasive female alternative….
The procedure itself was simple enough.. 1 snip, 20 mins all done, and back to the pub!
The lead up appointment a week before was quite involved however!
Virtually a mini psych evaluation detailing how the procedure is rarely successfully reversible, and consequences of said “snip job”…. This carried out a week beforehand to give you time to think it properly through.
So definitely NOT treated as lightly as Feathers mentioned!
This was 25 yrs ago too, so probably even more stringent nowadays?

I flipped the coin with the wifey and I lost out but must admit the procedure for men is sure easier than the women.

Originally Posted by JC

There are 2 genders. Male and female. If you are moving from one to the other, you are in transition, which is part of a process of moving from M to F or vice versa. It is not a gender.

If you are queer, gay, lesbian, whatever, that is not gender, that is sexual preference. And who cares what your preference is.

Spot on.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Not going to further “poke the bear” (Germaine, the man-hater)…. She is already aware that I’m awake to her continual anti-men trolling…

contributes no where else apart from threads like this and covid.

Saying males/females can't do x/y/z is rubbish.
Do it if you like.
Serial t roll

Come on Cav, we all know if the rubbish green Ute had a turbo. Girls would be lining up

[Trevor 57]

My wife had her tubes tied at 26, we discussed the pro's and con's of me getting done, she decided that while she was in hospital with twin babies (children 3 & 4), whilst I was at home with children 1 & 2, me aged 27, she felt it was easier for her to get done. However after watching her recovery I wish I had been done. The Pediatrician offered to do it with 2 bricks or for me to just go to the North End Vet Clinic - he was a funny bugger

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by leesa

lol ok. i'm also happy to leave it at that, it's gotten a bit more serious than intended.

You are disgraceful, so you intended to cause havoc but it got out of hand?
People have been pushing their points of view across the globe for Aeons, you certainly take the cake mate, the one made from sh.t that you keep stirring



Cheers Willy