Solution to Poor FG Sales ? - Page 3

cycle myth · 09-04-2010, 10:12 PM

Well you would need to be firing on all cylinders.

By this I mean a complete business proposition in the sum of its parts are working at once and together:

- good product development and timing (AU untimley, BA had to play catch up, VE v FG...) - a complete model range (no small car for too long,)

- good brand perception (up and down too often)

- good supportive dealer network (only just recently brand at retail has corrected some of the worst presented dealers there were) - the internal clashes - the formation and breakdown of the retail joint ventures - the non ford support of ford product from competing vehicle brands, to parts, finance, and warranty

If you build it they will come - see BMW and other good brand management..

bigdude1011 · 09-04-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

No but I bet Hyundai and Mazda talk about knocking off Ford,
both are within about 800 sales of Ford at the end of March...

Maybe FoA should send a few Falcons to Mazda. It would make a brilliant replacement for the 929, and people would buy it for the Mazda badge.

jpd80 · 09-04-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdude1011

Maybe FoA should send a few Falcons to Mazda. It would make a brilliant replacement for the 929, and people would buy it for the Mazda badge.

Wow, that's thinking outside the box.
It might be worth a shot, perhaps all that would need is the G6E

burnz · 09-04-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdude1011

Maybe FoA should send a few Falcons to Mazda. It would make a brilliant replacement for the 929, and people would buy it for the Mazda badge.

sooo, how many commodore's (lexen) did toyota sell??
and how many camry's (apollo) did holden sell??

bobthebilda · 09-04-2010, 11:18 PM

When Obama starts selling off GM later this year, Mullaly will just have to hand over 10 billion for a 20% stake in GM (not a controlling stake, but will give Mullaly ultimate power). Obama wont care, as long as Mullaly guarantees not to change anything in US. Mullaly wont care, because GM US operations arent a real prize.

For 10 billion dollars (700 million in interest per year), Mullaly now has control of Daewoo, ships 80000 cruzes and captivas here a year, and calls them Ford focus, Holden cruze, Holden captiva and ford Territory (stops making territories here). Moves all commodore production to campbellfeild, and stops offering fleet pricing on both cars.

Savings - close down Elizabeth = $150 million in wages
Stop fleet pricing on 60000 Falcons and commodores @ $4000 per car = $240 million
Profits from Daewoo imports = $160 million
Screw $150 million in savings from Ford or Holden suppliers, on a lump it leave basis.
Sells Elizabeth plant for housing for $50 million dollars, gives $1 million to the AMWU, who then gives $500,000 to Labor party.

Everyone walks away a winner.

burnz · 09-04-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

When Obama starts selling off GM later this year, Mullaly will just have to hand over 10 billion for a 20% stake in GM (not a controlling stake, but will give Mullaly ultimate power). Obama wont care, as long as Mullaly guarantees not to change anything in US. Mullaly wont care, because GM US operations arent a real prize.

For 10 billion dollars (700 million in interest per year), Mullaly now has control of Daewoo, ships 80000 cruzes and captivas here a year, and calls them Ford focus, Holden cruze, Holden captiva and ford Territory (stops making territories here). Moves all commodore production to campbellfeild, and stops offering fleet pricing on both cars.

Savings - close down Elizabeth = $150 million in wages
Stop fleet pricing on 60000 Falcons and commodores @ $4000 per car = $240 million
Profits from Daewoo imports = $160 million
Screw $150 million in savings from Ford or Holden suppliers, on a lump it leave basis.
Sells Elizabeth plant for housing for $50 million dollars, gives $1 million to the AMWU, who then gives $500,000 to Labor party.

Everyone walks away a winner.

now thats thinking outside the box...ha ha

Falc'man · 09-04-2010, 11:39 PM

Bob, I have just sent Al an email with a copy of your post. His reply was "LOL WTF?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

Ford have a vehicle that is 8/10 there. I keep saying this, but they have two elements missing. Some will disagree whole heartedly, but little things like Auto up/down windows and exciting options such as Ford SYNC, while seen as gimmicky, when bundled in one package make the motoring experience easier. That's just my opinion, and many will disagree so start the grilling and get it over and done with. The other is marketing/dealerships. I had to go to over 12 dealerships to find one that actually gave a rats behind about me, this is not acceptable. I'm a Ford fan and I knew what I wanted, so image if you don't know what you want and couldn't care less about brands? No wonder people steer clear from Ford, people in the dealerships either annoy the hell out of you or walk away when they see you. And yes, I buy all my vehicles new so I'm entitled to my opinion. The later part of this is their marketing, the whole 'Ford of course' thing was good for a while, but now it's boring. Ford need to tug at the heart strings of consumers, I get goosebumps when I see an Audi advert, they inspire me, beautiful lighting, the scenes are breathtaking and the music is equally well sorted. Ford need to be a company you buy from because you are inspired by their vehicles, and their advertising.

We need another 60's consumer showing, get a few Falcons to do 100 laps of some famous circuit, market the hell out of it, get the Ford US president down here and say Ford Australia has a future here, and prove the Falcon is reliable, exciting and inspiring. We have the same issue we did with the first Falcon, people don't believe in it...

Good post, that.

bobthebilda · 09-04-2010, 11:49 PM

[QUOTE=Falc'man]Bob, I have just sent Al an email with a copy of your post. His reply was "LOL WTF?"

I dont think that was Al making a specific comment about my ideas. That would be an automatic genetic response from he's email account, when he receives emails from Australia, like Burelas monthly sales and profit reports.

Falc'man · 09-04-2010, 11:59 PM

[QUOTE=bobthebilda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Bob, I have just sent Al an email with a copy of your post. His reply was "LOL WTF?"

I dont think that was Al making a specific comment about my ideas. That would be an automatic genetic response from he's email account, when he receives emails from Australia, like Burelas monthly sales and profit reports.

lol nah his out of office reply reads something like...
"I will be unable to delete all the emails you send me until I return
from vacation. Please be patient, and your mail will be deleted in the
order it was received."

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

When Obama starts selling off GM later this year, Mullaly will just have to hand over 10 billion for a 20% stake in GM (not a controlling stake, but will give Mullaly ultimate power). Obama wont care, as long as Mullaly guarantees not to change anything in US. Mullaly wont care, because GM US operations arent a real prize.

Why do anything, that GM will keep losing billions every 6 months and be back for another bail out.

I fear that GMNA's miss management will ruin Holden, not good for Australian manufacturing...:(

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

A friend at work traded his EF Futura and bought an Aurion a few weeks back.

He liked the 'little techy things' that it offered that a Ford or GMHolden didn't. In particular the keyless entry and start. The other was the external mirrors moving downwards to aid reverse parking... He liked them because they were novel and good for the wife and 2 kids. This sort of thing is what DannyHilton is getting at.

Thanks mate, I couldn't quite get the wording right but you've got it in one

_2:

SVR73 · 10-04-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy

There is no magic solution . All though wacking a holden badge would probly be a quick fix .

What ford need to do is simple . Make well built ,good reliable cars it wont increase sales over night but it could put them up there with toyota in a decades time .
There is no better advertising the one bloke saying to the next . I had my car for 3 or 4 years now and the only time its seen a mechanic it was when it needed a service.

Simple but the truth. Make strong, reliable cars that look good
The whole world has lost the plot when it comes to car design.

I have been told that the FG has a plastic fuel line - is this correct
what other plastic parts does it have? I've detailed many and they are crap build quality compared to E series, AU and BA.

bobthebilda · 10-04-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Why do anything, that GM will keep losing billions every 6 months and be back for another bail out.

I fear that GMNA's miss management will ruin Holden, not good for Australian manufacturing...:(

Holden only account for 1.5% of GM worldwide sales, and .75% of its car production. But tends to account for about 5% of its losses. General Motors have closed down divisions with far bigger percentages of total sales and production. Just give it time, Production at Elizabeth is not even a blip on GM's radar, and if Falcon is still being made when this happens, they win.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Holden only account for 1.5% of GM worldwide sales, and .75% of its car production. But tends to account for about 5% of its losses. General Motors have closed down divisions with far bigger percentages of total sales and production. Just give it time, Production at Elizabeth is not even a blip on GM's radar, and if Falcon is still being made when this happens, they win.

Bob, I take the view that both companies will fly under the radar if they keep costs under control.
FoA does about $3 billion in revenue each year and drop into the red by about $200M every few years or so, i wonder how much money actually gets off shored legally without the government seeing a penny...
FoA obviously add a lot ot the company in terms of being Asia's Centre Of Excellence, one of five COEs in the world.

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Good post, that.

Thanks fella. Good to see someone as respected as yourself can see the merit in my argument

Bossxr8 · 10-04-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

one way to sell more cars and make people have confidence in the brand is to have a v8 as your flag ship and not some turbo inline 6 thing. maybe the new blown engine will help.

and bring back the dam fairlane. i dont even like ford but that is a legendary name. your giving all the long wheel base sales to holden!

Ford must really be spewing they gave those 200 LWB sales to Holden, and they must really regret not spending 10's of millions of dollars developing a Fairlane/LTD so they could they could get those massive LWB sales.

LWB is dead. Ditching Fairlane/LTD was a good business move.

Bossxr8 · 10-04-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVR73

Simple but the truth. Make strong, reliable cars that look good
The whole world has lost the plot when it comes to car design.

I have been told that the FG has a plastic fuel line - is this correct
what other plastic parts does it have? I've detailed many and they are crap build quality compared to E series, AU and BA.

What are you basing that on. Look at the facts. Ford measure quality with TGW ratings. Things gone wrong per 1000 vehicles. FG is the lowest ever TGW rating, it totally smashes the BA and BF and anything before it, and its even better than Toyota Camry and Aurion. Warranty claims are also at their lowest levels ever.

People making stupid judgements based on nothing but useless assumptions is part of the problem, people assume Fords are low quality without having a clue about the reality.

Ford are getting so desperate for cars they want people to work on the next PDO at overtime pay rates to help make back up for the days of lost production last month. The next few months should see the numbers improve.

bobthebilda · 10-04-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford are getting so desperate for cars they want people to work on the next PDO at overtime pay rates to help make back up for the days of lost production last month. The next few months should see the numbers improve.

Thats a good theory Boss, however 94000 people last month got the car they wanted (and ford sold 2600 falcons to 2.7% of those). Those 94000 were very much above average for quite a while. They wont be buying cars next month. If ford make more falcons, and is able to grab a 10% increase in market share (2.7% to 3%), but the market only sells 75000 units, then only
2250 falcons are sold.

Its the bain of all manufacturers, they can control how many they make, they dont have too much control of how many the sell.

Bossxr8 · 10-04-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Thats a good theory Boss, however 94000 people last month got the car they wanted (and ford sold 2600 falcons to 2.7% of those). Those 94000 were very much above average for quite a while. They wont be buying cars next month. If ford make more falcons, and is able to grab a 10% increase in market share (2.7% to 3%), but the market only sells 75000 units, then only
2250 falcons are sold.

Its the bain of all manufacturers, they can control how many they make, they dont have too much control of how many the sell.

They have full order books for a few months in advance and dealers screaming out for cars to sell. Won't matter next month how many people walk in off the streets to buy cars now as next months cars are already sold, it will only affect months in advance. They need extra cars to fill orders, not to send out to dealerships in the hope that they will sell.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They have full order books for a few months in advance and dealers screaming out for cars to sell. Won't matter next month how many people walk in off the streets to buy cars now as next months cars are already sold, it will only affect months in advance. They need extra cars to fill orders, not to send out to dealerships in the hope that they will sell.

I'm amazed that some on here don't believe the low numbers of XT made these days.

Brazen · 10-04-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm amazed that some on here don't believe the low numbers of XT made these days.

Just call me vocally sceptical, lol. But hey Il be the first one to admit im wrong if someone confirms the 5% figure given in the Carpoint article. Just the sheer amount of LPG Falcons they must build would make me think anything lower than 25% is unlikely, but again I could be wrong.

Great to always hear about full order books, just wait to the diesel Territory comes out, it will be a madhouse down at Broadmeadows!

G6E Turbo 2 · 10-04-2010, 07:49 PM

Maybe try 150K & 5 year Warranty

Ford could do a Holden and have a new model dunnydore each month
and a sales every other month

cycle myth · 10-04-2010, 07:55 PM

I'm getting excited if Ford has a full order book to need additional shifts.

I'm a little confused though as if the plant can do 400 units a day and there are say 20 production days in a month that would be 8,000 units.

I know that the same production line does Territory and ute so there is a share of the 8,000 units - but even with a generous split how does this equal the current market share?

Maybe I'm not considering all the sales of Territory and ute properly?

burnz · 10-04-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6E Turbo 2

Maybe try 150K & 5 year Warranty

Ford could do a Holden and have a new model dunnydore each month
and a sales every other month

does ford have roadside assist??

what other warranty do they sell above the standard??

bobthebilda · 10-04-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They have full order books for a few months in advance and dealers screaming out for cars to sell. Won't matter next month how many people walk in off the streets to buy cars now as next months cars are already sold, it will only affect months in advance. They need extra cars to fill orders, not to send out to dealerships in the hope that they will sell.

Optimism is an admirable quality boss. I on the other hand, look at websites like the following:
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...YPage&site=FOA

and wonder why someone has to pull sales forward, and lowers prices when order books are full.

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Optimism is an admirable quality boss. I on the other hand, look at websites like the following:
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...YPage&site=FOA

and wonder why someone has to pull sales forward, and lowers prices when order books are full.

Bloody good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycle myth

I'm getting excited if Ford has a full order book to need additional shifts.

I'm a little confused though as if the plant can do 400 units a day and there are say 20 production days in a month that would be 8,000 units.

I know that the same production line does Territory and ute so there is a share of the 8,000 units - but even with a generous split how does this equal the current market share?

Maybe I'm not considering all the sales of Territory and ute properly?

Supplier issues can kill a weeks shift at the blink of an eye. People have mentioned Ford lost a week in January for this reason, February is a shorter month and they have lost two days in April. Those things add up. You do have a very good point though, even taking those things into account their volume should be higher?

Bossxr8 · 10-04-2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Just call me vocally sceptical, lol. But hey Il be the first one to admit im wrong if someone confirms the 5% figure given in the Carpoint article. Just the sheer amount of LPG Falcons they must build would make me think anything lower than 25% is unlikely, but again I could be wrong.

Great to always hear about full order books, just wait to the diesel Territory comes out, it will be a madhouse down at Broadmeadows!

I can confirm the sales split, it was shown to us in an internal briefing in December. Only 5% of sales are XT.

LPG goes into XT, G6, G6E and XR6?

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Optimism is an admirable quality boss. I on the other hand, look at websites like the following:
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...YPage&site=FOA

and wonder why someone has to pull sales forward, and lowers prices when order books are full.

Using up 5-speed autos, ther are roughly only 500 G6 LEs
and about the same number of XR6s available on these offers.

Bossxr8 · 10-04-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycle myth

I'm getting excited if Ford has a full order book to need additional shifts.

I'm a little confused though as if the plant can do 400 units a day and there are say 20 production days in a month that would be 8,000 units.

I know that the same production line does Territory and ute so there is a share of the 8,000 units - but even with a generous split how does this equal the current market share?

Maybe I'm not considering all the sales of Territory and ute properly?

Build rate is 270 a day. To put that number up requires a re-balance of the line and extra workers. It is very time consuming to do because extra jobs have to be added and all the work required needs to be moved around, and timings need to be spot on. Every movement is timed and added together to fit into a certain time frame per car, which is around 90 seconds at the moment. And to add to that some things can only be fitted in a particular sequence. It is massively complicated. Get it wrong by a couple of seconds and it can over stress that area resulting in a slower line rate and quality issues, or further re-balancing. I've been through 3 re-balances and they are a nightmare to get right.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Build rate is 270 a day. To put that number up requires a re-balance of the line and extra workers. It is very time consuming to do because extra jobs have to be added and all the work required needs to be moved around, and timings need to be spot on. Every movement is timed and added together to fit into a certain time frame per car, which is around 90 seconds at the moment. And to add to that some things can only be fitted in a particular sequence. It is massively complicated. Get it wrong by a couple of seconds and it can over stress that area resulting in a slower line rate and quality issues, or further re-balancing. I've been through 3 re-balances and they are a nightmare to get right.

So instead of speeding up the line it is easier to add a Saturday or two.
Boss, would they ever consider 9 or 10 hour days or would the body shop start to run behind?