RACV push for P-Plate passenger restrictions

[DOC]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yawn @ boring threads about nothing.
.

Magic, one thing hasnt changed, a teenager always knows everything, you only have to ask them, and yes i was one once.

Peace out and keep your skirts on ladies.

[XCSEDAN]

Originally Posted by whitelightening

I think they should go a step further and introduce a zero tolerance for alcohol as well.

umm it is zero tolerence... has been for years in VIC anyways.

and 4Vman if i had mates do that to me i would stop the car, yank them out and belt them round the head for it. theres a line you dont cross and if your mates crossed it you should have done something about it.

anyways back to the point of the thread, SCREW PASSENGER RESTRICTIONS!
just EDUCATE YOUNG DRIVERS!
hence the advanced driving courses, and yeah there have been a lot of valid points made here doing everyday things become a PIA with these restrictions.
squalo made a very good point about motorbike driver training, i personally wouldnt mind having something like that enforced instead, it would be a lot more effective IMHO.

[normxb]

Originally Posted by XCSEDAN

anyways back to the point of the thread, SCREW PASSENGER RESTRICTIONS!
just EDUCATE YOUNG DRIVERS!
.

I think it was fmc351 said in a thread once . "You can try all you like to teach young drivers , But THEY have to Want to Listen"

I've got teenagers of my own (very safety conscious , luckily) but if it's a topic they're not interested in , you've got "Buckleys"

Norm

[Polyal]

And just for the record, most of the p platers here might be better drivers and have a little more respect on the roads; makes sense or you wouldn't be on this site.

What you have to keep in mind is the average, know it all, cocky teenager. The laws change with the times, cars are quicker thats a fact (safety can only help so much) and there are more people on the roads.

[4Vman]

To be able to learn first you must be prepared to listen and accept..
Allot of teenager's are "experts" in most things.. who know allot more about driving and road safety than anyone older will ever be able to teach them...
Its probably the main reason why rules like these are brought in to protect them from themselves...

[ayeyew]

Originally Posted by normxb

I've got teenagers of my own (very safety conscious , luckily) but if it's a topic they're not interested in , you've got "Buckleys"

Norm

That's not just teenagers mate..

:

I agree with both sides.. I mean i can see why they are doing it, but it's just a band-aid solution. IMO there are much better ways of dealing with it.

But dealing with the analogy of being a teacher, i know sometimes i do penalise the 90% of kids doing the right thing just to convey the fact that the 10% of people who are doing the wrong thing are affecting those other 90%.. It works with some.. Not all I suppose that is kinda similar to what is happening with this.

Most kids are willing to learn, teachers just need to make it interesting, relevant and engaging.

[Mongoose]

Originally Posted by ayeyew

Most kids are willing to learn, teachers just need to make it interesting, relevant and engaging.

why werent you a teacher at my school? they could use a motto like that back there

[XCSEDAN]

Originally Posted by normxb

I think it was fmc351 said in a thread once . "You can try all you like to teach young drivers , But THEY have to Want to Listen"

I've got teenagers of my own (very safety conscious , luckily) but if it's a topic they're not interested in , you've got "Buckleys"

Norm

that's very true, another idea would be to take them to re-hab or an ER, the stuff you see there is just... sad im not going to go into details but iv been there a few times and its pretty eye opening.

the biggest problem is there is always those who dont want to grow up and always want to act hero i think.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by ayeyew

But dealing with the analogy of being a teacher, i know sometimes i do penalise the 90% of kids doing the right thing just to convey the fact that the 10% of people who are doing the wrong thing are affecting those other 90%.. It works with some.. Not all I suppose that is kinda similar to what is happening with this.

Most kids are willing to learn, teachers just need to make it interesting, relevant and engaging.

You will find the 90% who want to learn are not the 10% on here complaining about the rules.

[Van D]

Originally Posted by DOC

You will find the 90% who want to learn are not the 10% on here complaining about the rules.

You're so clever. I hope my arrogance and ego also expand in size relative to my age. By the time I'm as old as you I might be ignorant enough to believe the crap I just typed about P platers in forums as well :togo:

[Van D]

Originally Posted by Polyal

What you have to keep in mind is the average, know it all, cocky teenager. The laws change with the times, cars are quicker thats a fact (safety can only help so much) and there are more people on the roads.

But once again you're going off this threads topic. They're putting MORE people on the roads with these laws.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by sleekism

P platers are starting to put 2 and 2 together and wait for it..........NOT WEARING THEIR P PLATES

The reason WHY we insist P plates being clearly displayed is soley to alert OTHER TRAFFIC that the driver has limited on-road experienced.

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

Yes, I know those 'old' drivers typically of 23 years to age 30, and those 30plus senior citizens also have their driving issues, but - that does not detract from the point that if we old timers see your plates, we might just discreetly get out of your way so 'we' don't crash into *you*.

If you don't want the passenger restriction, tell your local MP (yes, seriously). Its one of the 'optionals' in the ongoing national harmonisation of the graduated licensing systems.

Some of you Vic people could apply for 'expemptions' in any case.

[ayeyew]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

The reason WHY we insist P plates being clearly displayed is soley to alert OTHER TRAFFIC that the driver has limited on-road experienced.

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

Maybe there should be some kind of plate for people 70+ too.. The way some of them drive.. Oh my God.. They drive too slow!!

Slower is NOT safer, some of the older people are going 30+km/h UNDER the speed limit. I was behind an old lady (she could barely see over the steering wheel), must have been around aged around 75-80 on Cumberland highway near Parramatta and she was doing 35 in a 70 zone! Mentality is so different between different subsets of the population.. You see a P-plater going 30km/h over the speed limit you think bloody deeekhead, you see an old granny doing 30km/h under the speed limit and you think "Poor old chook!" when in reality both driving behaviours are likely to cause accidents!

I would love to see the statistics on how many Senior citizens are involved in minor accidents (they cant hurt anybody cuz they don't go fast enough)

[dom_105]

Originally Posted by ayeyew

Slower is NOT safer, some of the older people are going 30+km/h UNDER the speed limit. I was behind an old lady (she could barely see over the steering wheel), must have been around aged around 75-80 on Cumberland highway near Parramatta and she was doing 35 in a 70 zone! Mentality is so different between different subsets of the population.. You see a P-plater going 30km/h over the speed limit you think bloody deeekhead, you see an old granny doing 30km/h under the speed limit and you think "Poor old chook!" when in reality both driving behaviours are likely to cause accidents!

Same thing happened to me a few days ago.

Travelling outbound on Melbourne's Eastern Freeway, coming around that bend just before Doncaster Road I came across this old guy in a VL commodore sitting on 60 in my lane (he wasn't in the left lane mind you)

Lucky I saw he was going considerably slower than the rest of the traffic and took evasive action. While I didn't even come close to hitting him, you can just imagine what would happen if somebody actually did.

[normxb]

Originally Posted by ayeyew

Most kids are willing to learn, teachers just need to make it interesting, relevant and engaging.

ayeyew ,
Yes mate , I can see where you're coming from , I used to own a Guitar School at Blacktown , can be damn boring learning , ( specially theory ,essential part of learning ) only way is to make it as "interesting as possible".

On your other point " Aged Slow/Dangerous Drivers " , I know exactly what you mean . This is the description of my fathers driving when he turned 80 . Also going through Stop/Giveway signs & "short cutting" through Round-a-Bouts and 80k in 60k zones or 60 in 80's (never consistent).

Now this will sound very "Cruel" (he hadn't had an accident in 60 yrs driving)
but after consulting my mother and other family members , we spoke to his Dr. and "Got him Failed due to Medical reasons" on his 80y/o medical test . One of the hardest things I ever had to do ! but "he" didn't know when to call it quits .

But to help compensate , anywhere he wanted/needed to go , I always took him in HIS car , he must have appreciated it , because he'd sit in his "Pride & Joy" with a big smile on his face and other road users were safe .

With younger drivers , it's the opposite end of the scale . Because they've been on their "L's" , they "think" they can drive . They can Stop , Start , go around corners , but nothing replaces experience . That takes "Time"

Norm
(sorry if I got O/T)

[Airmon]

We currently have this law in NSW and I agree it is complete B.S.
I know that when I go out drinking with my mates we always have a designated driver in either a van or 5 seater sedan, so that when we get ****ed we have 1 driver to 4 passengers, therefore if we rotate it each week no one has to drink drive.
Since the new laws have come in, its 1-1 instead of 1-5, and guess what!? I see mates driving off completely trashed because its their only way home and no one wants to get busted for more than 1 person in the car (and dont give me the "you should stop them" or "they shouldnt have gone out in the first place" because its teenagers we're talking about).

Its also becomming fairly common that Police (in my local area at least) aren't enforcing these laws, making them frivolous in the first place!
I know of people in other areas being booked for it, but thanksfully my locals have realised the stupidity of the law and are fairly lax on it and understanding. I just hope your local coppas are the same.

[Hybrid34]

First of all, this thread is not about P-platers Carrying on like babies, its about Motor Enthusiasts Being restricted to the point where it gets ridiculous, Ok it may not affect people who aren't on their P's so obviously their not going to complain, but for those who have to suffer such a restriction have a right to discuss something that is relevant...

Originally Posted by 4vman

FFS people if you havent done anything wrong or broken the law you don't have anything to worry about, and could probably drive around for 10 years displaying P plates without ever being pulled over..

Yeah, for those people who don't do things wrong, like myself along with many P-platers have to now suffer, and its not just carrying around mates from a party, its other things like taking your parents out to a dinner because they want to drink, or as another member stated, work related.....

Why don't they create laws that will follow suite in the community, making things harsher for those who Hoon around and break the law, not make life difficult for those who abide by the rules....

Im a P-plater, why should I have to suffer these particular restrictions when i don't do anything wrong? Place hasher restrictions on those who do wrong,
For those who are agreeing with P-plate restrictions, Im sure if they brought in a passenger restriction for non p-platers, there would be a massive kick up,
I Agree with harsher Zero Alcohol Limits, Hooning Impounding, Higher Dermit point loss for those who talk on the phone (talking P-platers), because these are offenders, ....but not a restrction where it affecrs those who do right.

Originally Posted by 4vman

I think we're now homing in on why there is curfew and passenger restrictions.... We've all been in the car with drunk people, 1 is normally fine, its when you get a few together you'll get problems.. a group of young drunk passengers can be nearly as dangerous as a drunk driver.
Maybe.. just maybe the people assesing the accidents and setting these laws know this too...

Of course your statement is true, but can i ask you this, 5 or 6 cars with 1 person in each, knowing their car isn't loaded down (for these hoons out there), pulling up at the lights on the way back from a party....these 6cars who are hot heads, are more likely to drag race and hoon around, than a car full on passed out of tired people wanting to get home....

Which do you think is more dangerous?
Drunk people in a car with a sober driver (like a taxi driver).......or
A convoy of P-platers, usually double the normal around, racing around knowing that its only them in the car (not a heavy load, and no1 else in the car to risk lives)....
[Lots of cars + P plate hoons = Temptation for racing]

Sorry but i think this law was created by politicians who do no look hard enough in what should be done right, for these people who crash their cars due to hooning, talk onthe phone causing accidents, wreckless driving, or even p-platers who hoon create tougher laws for this category of drivers, which will reduce those who want to follow these type of actions...

[DOC]

Originally Posted by Hybrid34

Why don't they create laws that will follow suite in the community, making things harsher for those who Hoon around and break the law, not make life difficult for those who abide by the rules....


Of course your statement is true, but can i ask you this, 5 or 6 cars with 1 person in each, knowing their car isn't loaded down (for these hoons out there), pulling up at the lights on the way back from a party....these 6cars who are hot heads, are more likely to drag race and hoon around, than a car full on passed out of tired people wanting to get home....

Which do you think is more dangerous?
...

would not the 6 people all be hoons then if they are all reving up at the lights ? regardless of people in the car ?

[normxb]

Originally Posted by Hybrid34

its not just carrying around mates from a party, its other things like taking your parents out to a dinner because they want to drink, or as another member stated, work related.....
Why don't they create laws that will follow suite in the community, making things harsher for those who Hoon around and break the law, not make life difficult for those who abide by the rules....
..

I think if you check the new laws , "P" platers can take "Only one person" with them "under the age of 25" . Over 25 is Ok .

Don't worry , I know how you feel . I've got 2 kids on "P's" , both sensible drivers (small town , news travels quick) it's like ALL things . "It's the minority who spoil it for the Majority" Kids grow up today in a lot more lenient society ( slap on the wrist for speeding , driving without licence , theft , Assault etc. ) . If we were caught without a licence , you were in trouble "Big Time " . Also if we Lost our licence for any reason , it was a Huge Embarrassment , these days kids just keep driving anyway .

So I agree , Harsher Penalties , trouble is too many "Do Gooders" , "Civil Liberties" and kids with "My Rights Are ...." and I'm afraid it's guys like your self who get Branded the same as well .

Norm

[normxb]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

My memories of being a designated driver arent all that great... you're sobber and its 3am with 4 of you p!ssed mates in the car carrying on, play fighting, pulling the hand brake on, covering your eyes.. etc while you're attempting to get them home safely.. it wasnt till we all reached mid 20's that things calmed down..
In the end getting a cab seemed like a safer option.
Weather you want to admit it or not i bet there's alot more than a couple of people on here who can relate to being a "designated "driver with intoxicated passangers....

Another 4Vman post....

I was a P Plater once too.. We all live by different rules and regulations every day of our life, i dont sook about it, i just get on with it.
If you've just got your licence (P plater) its not like you know any different anyway in terms of driving freedoms.... and at the end of 3 years you get to upgrade, you'll live!

Agree with you 100% , if you're a DD you have a big reasonability , takes a good person "not" to be distracted .

I think these guy's think we had it easy . If a cop pulled you up a Second time , you knew you'd "had it" , there were NO second chances then like there is today . If you were caught for speeding etc. and got caught again ....Good by licence for 4-5 years .

[Hybrid34]

Originally Posted by DOC

would not the 6 people all be hoons then if they are all reving up at the lights ? regardless of people in the car ?

Yes but there would be a lesser chance of an accident, as in, the more Pplaters on the road traveling in a group, the more chance someone will play up, true? or not?

[Daymoe]

My mum and dad say that the P platers deserve all the restrictions they can get, and i recall my dad saying that his first car was a Torana XU1 and he used to hoon around with his mates, not stopping at stop signs etc etc.

My mum is the biggest P plate whinger around, but i recall her going 140kph+ on bald tyres on a country road on the opposite side of the road approaching a corner (In a car that hasn't been serviced at all for 100,000kms). All while i was in the car when my sisters bus was late from school and she complains about P platers speeding and being in general. Take a look at what you did while i was in the car, Ford Festiva hitting another car or tree @ 140kph would have killed us both. (Morale of that story: Not only P-Platers are sometimes behind the wheel)

I reckon the new restrictions are unfair, you can still kill yourself and your mates just as easily in a Hyundai Excell. IIRC someone on the forum posted that it doesn't matter 0-100, its 100-0 that counts.

I'm a Victorian L plater, get this:

a 16 year old is allowed behind the wheel of ANY road legal car, be it V8, turbo charged, modded etc etc. But the people with more driving experience (thats you P-platers) get these new unfair restrictions (Old P-plate laws are more "fair").

[Silhouette6T]

I love living in W.A

They wouldnt let it happen, Insurance companies that is..

Silly young blokes like me paying over 2 grand a year on insurance :P

[DOC]

Originally Posted by Hybrid34

Yes but there would be a lesser chance of an accident, as in, the more Pplaters on the road traveling in a group, the more chance someone will play up, true? or not?

To be honest, i'm not sure if there will ever be one right answer for all. But to say if we are allowed to travel all in one car we will be good, but if you try and put us into single cars we will magicly turn into hoons is a story that is hard to follow.

Regardless it is tuff for the kids with these restrictions in a way, we never had them, weet bix packet , grab a card you had a licence in my day, and i was driving V8 at 16 / 17 with my first Monaro.

what is different though ( and talking straight ) is the V8's back then were in most cases gutless in comparison to even some smaller cars today, Most kids version of a hotted up car was a eh holden and the nly a fox tail on the arial ( from when we ran it over the night before )

It was very rare back then that any young kid had what i would call a high performance car for a few reasons.

the first being the mods we can bolt on taday and grab from the local deli in such were not available or hard to get, most kids did not get instant house loans to buy or mod cars, we just had to drive what we could afford with limited mods if any, on top of this there was less traffic and a final thing back then was most kids had respect for the local copper, when he said quiten down or time to park it for the night we quietly did so and we all lived happily.

further to that as it was harder to save and get these cars back then and to trick them up ( which we did ) in a way we went through a P plate period even though there was not one, we learnt to over time drive and as that improved a small mod aslo came into play and some more driving.

no one complained we had fun, the world was slow and not in a hurry.

Today you can get credit for a dead set lethal weapon in 24 hours and with that be let loose on crowded roads with little to no real driving time regardless of the high testorone running around in you veins, this does create a dangerous combination, and yes im still driving the v8's and these things these days snap your darn neck will sit side ways at 100K are are pure modern day muscle with some 400 plus rwkw for a few bucks.

One thing i can say and i know not all kids have this but would be good if you did is similar to what we do.

I have 2 teenagers now, but they have this rule, they can ring me at any time from any place, in any condition , drunk sober i dont care, and i will pick them and the rules extend to i ask no questions or anything in return.

I have also offered that this will extend to their inner circle of mates as well, so all of them know regardless if they perhaps have had to much fun they can all get a hassle question free ride home.

They have used it several times, and i have even had one spew in the back of the car. of which i cleaned up with no questions or blame on the kids.

the system works well and lets just hope you kids see that these few rules are really not worth worry about.

I remember at your age going fast was not cool, and having more than 1 passenger in your car after a night out was not cool.

Quite simply if that car was not parked up in a quiet spot with some quality company, you were one of the bored people driving around with half a dozen beer smellin hombrais all wishing the you were in the parked car.

this one passenger stuff would be working big time for me and in my favour, be no way id be complaining, your just not looking at it the right way

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by geohatrick

go put p-plates on your car for a month and abide by all the rules that p platers have to and see how you like it... then do it for 3years.

Fifthded!

These laws were invented by sour old baby boomers who can't stand young whipper snappers having a car faster than their Camry Sportivo!

It was only the other day that a baby boomer at work personally apologised to me for what his generation ae doing to our generation. Among other things that the same people who got to go through uni for free are now forcing us to pay nearly a 100 grand in HECS.

I would get up on my soapbox but I have to work an 11 hour shift tomorrow to pay for my uni course and if you old bastards get your way I will soon go without penalty rates so you can look after your super funds.

Go farke yourself!! All I wanted was to drive my 1968 Fairmont 302 Windsor. It wasn't fast I just wanted to cruise and I love V8's and I love bench seats.

I work hard, I've never had an accident and I have a full motorbike licence so I can do 300 kays if I farkin need to!1 Whst's your problem???

[normxb]

Boy , have you got a chip on your shoulder ?

Originally Posted by sleekism

Fifthded!
1/These laws were invented by sour old baby boomers who can't stand young whipper snappers having a car faster than their Camry Sportivo!

2/It was only the other day that a baby boomer at work personally apologised to me for what his generation ae doing to our generation. Among other things that the same people who got to go through uni for free are now forcing us to pay nearly a 100 grand in HECS.
I would get up on my soapbox but I have to work an 11 hour shift tomorrow to pay for my uni course and

4/ if you old bastards get your way I will soon go without penalty rates so you can look after your super funds.

5/ Go farke yourself!! All I wanted was to drive my 1968 Fairmont 302 Windsor. It wasn't fast I just wanted to cruise and I love V8's and I love bench seats.
I work hard, I've never had an accident and I have a full motorbike licence so

6/ I can do 300 kays if I farkin need to!1 Whst's your problem???

1/ I drove as fast as I liked , after I saved up and bought a track car , took it to a track and could drive as fast as I liked . "Us Old Baby Boomers" have to Obey the Law as well ,ask the Victorians how strict thats getting ? We had to do our time on "P's" also.

2/ Bit hard to Believe , seen too many of my daughters friends killed (18-26 y/o) Lucky you got into Uni , lot of kids I went to school with didn't have the chance , and the ones I know had to get their parents to pay , "cash up front" , don't know of any feebee's . So if your Oldies weren't Cashed Up , you didn't go .

3/ Hard work ? I worked 8-16 hrs (or more) a day 6-7 day's a week to get what I got for 25 years .
2-3 jobs at a time !

4/ Who paid for the roads you drive on , Me , My Father & Grandfather , and half of them were Goat tracks before that. "Super Fund" Well , tell that to the young kids coming up who will have to pay for yours .

5/ Ok , Store it , then appreciate it . I didn't get/afford my first V8 till I was 32 .

6/ And I wonder why they're coming down hard on You ?

At 18 you have "Your Rights" as an Adult , when the "Summary Offences Act" came in. This was the "Softening of the Law" . Before that No Pub's , No Club's till you were 21 , we had "No Rights" till then. If a Cop said "Go Home" you went , Or Else . And there was a thing called "Respect" !

"Summary Offences Act"
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...ct/soa1988189/

This is when people didn't have to be "responsible for their own actions"

And I wonder why I just lost Respect ?

[Squalo]

Sleekism, I'm afraid you've not made any points whatsoever here. While I feel for you - the laws were not created to stop you driving your classic, you're just collateral damage - you really do need to have a good long look at your attitude. Norm pretty much summed it up - the current generation has it so much better than any preceeding generations it's not funny - certainly it's not funny when they are complaining.

The laws are - as they have always been - about keeping people alive. Those of you here who are immortal obviously struggle to assimilate this information. But those of you who survive through to parenthood will understand.

A task for you - print this (and the other related) topic out, and put it somewhere safe, where you can access it in 20 years. Then marvel at your attitude.

[Daymoe]

Or you could put it this way:

With the new laws in, you can all buy Hyundai Excell's and you'll have a more even competition next time you decide to drag at the lights

Jokes ^ Don't drag at the lights, someone could run a red and smash right into the side of you.

[MITCHAY]

Whilst not on my P plates anymore and was never affected by these rules they are so stupid it's not funny.

Just wait guys to you get your full licence. It's heaven and people treat you much differently!

Glad I could own whatever car I could afford and have as much passengers as I wanted not that I really ever had people in my car a lot.

The thing that saved me was because I'm not a Richard Cranium (stupid filter!) , not stupid laws like these.

The only way is to stop d!ckheads from getting a licence although some would still drive regardless.

Same thing with these laws, except it punishes those who do the right thing and drive responsibly.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Same thing with these laws, except it punishes those who do the right thing and drive responsibly.

You mean just the same as the majority of other laws we have?