IRS upper shock mount - Permanent fix - Page 3

tkfd · 30-01-2012, 08:03 PM

Hey Rick,

Can I just ask a question about the bushes.

what bushes are they exactly, and will they be needed as an extra, ie can't re-use existing ones.

thanks

Sox · 30-01-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkfd

Hey Rick,

Can I just ask a question about the bushes.

what bushes are they exactly, and will they be needed as an extra, ie can't re-use existing ones.

thanks

You will need the ones I listed the part numbers for.

There is no old bush to use as such, as the old unit had the bush as an integral part of the mount. It's part of the original design.

My method mounts the shock stem in the traditional manner like the one shown below.

tkfd · 31-01-2012, 04:55 PM

thanks Rick,

Could you pls write up a quick blurb on how to put these bushes in, and what to look out for for the guys who are putting them in themselves (and also for any mechanic not knowing of these new mounts). thanks mate.

Sox · 31-01-2012, 08:40 PM

It's really really easy, a mechanic will take one look at the picture below and will know what's going on.

I'll put this text up again too.

For final assembly, you will need the following bushes.
Superpro poly bushes - SPF0204K ~$30.
OR
Kelpro rubber bushes - 23036 ~$12.

When assembling the strut, the pieces go as follows -
1 - Original shock
2 - Original bump rubber
3 - Original metal cup
4 - New rubber or poly bush (with boss facing up)
5 - New re-manufactured shock mount
6 - New rubber or poly bush (with boss facing down)
7 - Original Metal wave washer
8 - Original lock nut
.

tkfd · 01-02-2012, 02:48 AM

Thanks Rick

Would the Pedders bush suit - EP4035 Urethane Shock Bush

also is there anything else that needs to be known about installing these new mounts.

Ta

Sox · 01-02-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkfd

Thanks Rick

Would the Pedders bush suit - EP4035 Urethane Shock Bush

also is there anything else that needs to be known about installing these new mounts.

Ta

There's nothing else I can think of.

As for the bushes, I'd need to see them.

I would only use the Superpro and Kelpro numbers I provided, that way you can't go wrong.

Sox · 02-02-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkfd

Thanks Rick

Would the Pedders bush suit - EP4035 Urethane Shock Bush

also is there anything else that needs to be known about installing these new mounts.

Ta

I did think of one more thing.
There is a left and a right mount, and I forgot to remark them.
It's easy to see which is which when next to one another.

**TICK4D-TAS** · 02-02-2012, 07:14 PM

Hey Rick,

I have just got back from interstate work. I will try and get the mounts in the post tomorrow.

tkfd · 02-02-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I did think of one more thing.
There is a left and a right mount, and I forgot to remark them.
It's easy to see which is which when next to one another.

cool thanks for that. And guessing wouldn't fit if wrong side anyway.

I ended up getting the Nolathene bushes to suit (only ones on the shelf at the time) Part # 43023. They are just AU live axle upper shock bushes anway, right? - come in a pack of 4.

That pedders bush part number I quoted was wrong. Pedders bushes are just Nolathene anyway.

Sox · 03-02-2012, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkfd

cool thanks for that. And guessing wouldn't fit if wrong side anyway.

I ended up getting the Nolathene bushes to suit (only ones on the shelf at the time) Part # 43023. They are just AU live axle upper shock bushes anway, right? - come in a pack of 4.

That pedders bush part number I quoted was wrong. Pedders bushes are just Nolathene anyway.

The Nolathane part is wrong. Do not use them.
The locating boss is the wrong size and won't locate the shock properly.

I stressed this several times many posts ago.

Do not use them.
You will need to get the Superpro bushes.

Sox · 03-02-2012, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TICK4D-TAS

Hey Rick,

I have just got back from interstate work. I will try and get the mounts in the post tomorrow.

Fantastic.
I only have one set waiting to be done at the moment.
New welder hasn't arrived yet anyhow, but should today.

Again, if anyone has spare bushes to send me, now is the time.
The whole process will drag out much longer if they come in one pair at a time.

tkfd · 03-02-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

The Nolathane part is wrong. Do not use them.
The locating boss is the wrong size and won't locate the shock properly.

I stressed this several times many posts ago.

Do not use them.
You will need to get the Superpro bushes.

ok. I just thought the bush is for the same application - upper shock for live axle. All the bushes should be the same, right?

anyway won't get the nolathene, and ordered superpro. I was hoping to instal this weekend, but now have to wait for superpro

thanks rick.

Sox · 03-02-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkfd

ok. I just thought the bush is for the same application - upper shock for live axle. All the bushes should be the same, right?

anyway won't get the nolathene, and ordered superpro. I was hoping to instal this weekend, but now have to wait for superpro

thanks rick.

The bush is for the same application.
However Nolathane and Kelpro supply the wrong part.

All of these bushes have a boss which protrudes from the main body, this boss slips into the hole on the disk I made.
I made this hole the same size as the hole in the mount for AU live axle rear, assuming it would be a common bush.
(It also happens to be the same as the shock bush used in all leaf sprung Falcons prior to AU).

The boss on the Nolathane bush is 14mm, the hole is 21mm.
The boss won't allow the shock shaft to locate centrally in the disk, and would likely cause premature wear.

Nolathane (and Kelpro) need to look into this.

Stonepony · 04-02-2012, 08:16 AM

Hi Guys,
Fitted a set of these mounts on Wednesday. No problems fitting them, did notice that there were no left or right markings, if the wrong one is fitted into the top mount then the shock bottom will be nowhere near the bottom bush.
I used the Kelpro 23036 bushes, got them for $8 a set.
Car has now got all new KYB's all round and Rick's new mounts in the back,I haven't driven it yet but my wife who drives it everyday says it feels like a different car, firmer in the back and no noticable increase in NVH. I 'll try to give it a squirt today and let you know how it feels, well done Rick.

jeffb · 05-02-2012, 04:37 PM

Finally got around to doing this today, removing the rubber is one of those things in life you wish you just didn't have to do but after that everything else was pretty sweet. they even look like the ones in the pictures! thanks Sox!

Sox · 05-02-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb

Finally got around to doing this today, removing the rubber is one of those things in life you wish you just didn't have to do but after that everything else was pretty sweet. they even look like the ones in the pictures! thanks Sox!

Good one.
Do you have them back on the car?

jeffb · 05-02-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Good one.
Do you have them back on the car?

Not yet, hit them with a bit of paint and left it at that for the day

block58 · 13-02-2012, 09:01 PM

Hi Sox, looking to fit some of these and was wondering if you had a surplus of them yet or modifications are only being done when old mounts are received?

Cheers

Sox · 14-02-2012, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by block58

Hi Sox, looking to fit some of these and was wondering if you had a surplus of them yet or modifications are only being done when old mounts are received?

Cheers

I wish.
I currently have 1 pair here to convert, which is allocated to the fella who originally met me in Windsor to swap (you know who you are).
I was hoping to have a few more last weekend, as a few people have claimed they sent some.

Nothing has arrived.

Sorry guys, this is going to drag on for some time.

tkfd · 15-02-2012, 09:38 PM

I'm fitting mine this weekend, so should have a set to send you.

Sox · 23-02-2012, 10:32 PM

Well this seems to have fallen a bit flat.
Only 2 sets have been made so far.

One known to have been fitted with excellent initial results, only to have had premature rubber failure after a week or so.

The other set has been supplied sometime back, but it's unknown whether they've been fitted.

The set which had premature rubber failure is a bit of a bother. The rubbers used were the Kelpro - 23036, which I found to be the correct size needed.
The guy (Stonypony) who fitted them felt the actual problem is the spring saddle alignment on the shock isn't correct, allowing the spring to sit somewhat crooked, thereby locating the shank non central to the shock mount.
From memory they were KYB aftermarket shocks.
From what I understand he has now fitted poly bushes and also a locating washer.

Personally I'm not convinced of this theory, as I feel once the spring is under compression, the lateral forces on the shock shank would continually change.
I also would not recommend a washer be fitted between the rubbers, as premature wear could result as the washer grinds into the shock shank.

My own thoughts as to why the Kelpro rubbers failed are -
1 - The bushes aren't designed for the lateral forces involved with an integral shock spring setup (essentially a strut).
2 - The KYB shocks possibly have a longer shank, thus not allowing enough compression of the rubbers.

The only thing I can really do now is to not recommend the use of the rubber bushes, at least for now, until I can determine the actual cause. Or at the very least, use them at your own risk, potentially having to swap them for poly at a later date.

I understand if this puts some people off, as I certainly don't want to provide something which whilst removes several flaws, introduces another new one.

jeffb - How are yours going?
tkfd - Are yours on yet, have you sent the old ones back to me?
Stonypony - Do you have any feedback on how the new poly bushes went.

BTW, Stonypony also found which Nolathane part number is the correct size - 43036.

For the record, my own prototypes are still performing flawlessly after many thousands of km, using old rubber bushes from a live axle setup.
I haven't changed to poly yet as planned, but may get some time this weekend.

Stonepony · 23-02-2012, 11:03 PM

Hey Sox,
They were still making a bumping noise after a couple of days with the nolathane bushes in. I have since removed the shocks again and have come to the same conclusion as you have. I think the problem appears to be the springs not sitting square in the cradle of the KYB shocks and also that the top shank of the shock may be a little bit longer and there was not enough compression on the bottom bush. I have fitted two packing washers under the bell to put more compression on the bottom bush, also used the fitted washer in the bush hole during assembly to guide the shank through and centre the bottom bush during the assembly. Removed the guide washer and then fitted the top bush and tightened down to compress both bushes in the top mount. Only just fitted them back in tonight. will post how they go.
The Nolathane bushes were part # 43036, they had an O.D of 21mm on the bush.

jeffb · 24-02-2012, 08:16 AM

I only got mine back on the road yesterday "yay" as I have rebushed the whole thing and had the wheels refinished so its been off the road for a while. but from the small amount of time I have driven it they seem fine, I am using the Superpro bush with the Original Koni red shocks.

tkfd · 25-02-2012, 07:03 PM

Hi Rick, installed mine last weekend, and a marked improvement. Feels HEAPS firmer and I am not (at this stage) getting any bush failure. I used the Superpro ones. No"noticable" increase in NVH, however I do have heaps of other noises going about which may mask it - exhaust, firmer koni's, T56 rollover. I will endeavour to send my original ones back to you. Thanks mate

Sox · 07-03-2012, 12:26 PM

I installed the Superpro poly bushes today and it is excellent.
I can't notice an increase in NVH, though I can feel it is slightly firmer and more secure.

I would only recommend the use of poly bushes.

I have 3 sets of mounts here right now to do, I hope to have them all done over the weekend, ready for shipping on Monday.

BTW, it's been an interesting exercise obtaining all the old mounts, a couple have been like new, and some have virtually had the alloy sleeve fall out of the buggers.
What an idiotic design.

SLO247 · 07-03-2012, 12:57 PM

So as long as the Superpro Poly bushes are used, there are no problems?

What is the pricing on these currently and If I wanted a set how long would I need to wait?

Sox · 07-03-2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO247

So as long as the Superpro Poly bushes are used, there are no problems?

What is the pricing on these currently and If I wanted a set how long would I need to wait?

The mounts are $200, or $250 if you can't supply me your old ones. Plus freight.

I actually didn't have any problems with my rubber bushes during the time they were installed, several thousand k's.
However when I did remove them today to fit the poly bushes, I did notice the small boss on the bush was creeping towards being offset, so it was likely just a matter of time before they failed too I guess.

The poly bushes should last a long time I'd imagine.
If not, I'll devise a way to sort that issue anyhow, perhaps a small nylon sleeve for the center or some such thing.

I've come this far, I won't let it beat me.

T3man · 07-03-2012, 05:09 PM

Thanks for your efforts Rick - R&D and field testing can be very exhausting in more ways than one. It goes a long way to explaining why factory componentry is in the main very reliable. Then you get a case like these mounts and you think "WTF were they thinking?" So are you able to fit (or supply) the nolathane bushes for mine when you do them please? I will probably have a trip up your way sometime early next month so no hurry with them.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 07-03-2012, 05:20 PM

this makes buying another AU Ghia/XR a lot more viable - fantastic effort.

Sox · 07-03-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

Thanks for your efforts Rick - R&D and field testing can be very exhausting in more ways than one. It goes a long way to explaining why factory componentry is in the main very reliable. Then you get a case like these mounts and you think "WTF were they thinking?" So are you able to fit (or supply) the nolathane bushes for mine when you do them please? I will probably have a trip up your way sometime early next month so no hurry with them.

Bugger, I thought you might have forgotten about those lovely red shocks.

But yeh, no problem.