Endura Culled.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I wonder how many of those 1,000 odd Endures sold went to Ford's internal fleet.

probably not that many tbh. The lease fleet is pretty flooded with Rangers. Lease price on Endura was pretty high for what you got. Everest was a much better lease deal for us internally

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Even before diesel Endura went on sale here, it had already failed in Europe,
what does that tell us about Ford's market research?

I don't think it is really a failure of market research, but a reflection of our buying power. Europe builds cars for itself, and we get the leftovers that won't sell back home. Our ****y little 20,000 per year isn't enough for anyone to treat us special.

We needed an mid-size SUV after Territory went and Edge was all that was left in the corporate portfolio. Europe was desperately tying to keep it alive with the high power diesel version which didn't leave anything for us.

Still don't know why we didn't ever get C-max or S-max over here though.

[MITCHAY]

I've seen more Camaros, Rams, and Silverados than I've seen Enduras. I know they are not competitors but considering they are LHD conversions which cost a lot more that was my point

[roddy1960]

I can't recall actually seeing one ..Not many Everests either .Just a couple from memory .

[Franco Cozzo]

I saw one around home yesterday, they're a good looking car that's for sure.

[chevypower]

You would think to diversify its product portfolio, Ford Aus would be able to make a case for the Mustang Mach E, Explorer, Bronco, Bronco Sport. Beyond that, I think Expedition and F-series for lower volume / higher margin sales. Or they could be content riding the current Ranger sales until they don’t don’t have a business anymore.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

I don't think it is really a failure of market research, but a reflection of our buying power. Europe builds cars for itself, and we get the leftovers that won't sell back home. Our ****y little 20,000 per year isn't enough for anyone to treat us special.

We needed an mid-size SUV after Territory went and Edge was all that was left in the corporate portfolio. Europe was desperately tying to keep it alive with the high power diesel version which didn't leave anything for us.

Still don't know why we didn't ever get C-max or S-max over here though.

Those were available for years but probably dismissed as minivans that no one here wanted...

Edge was developed by the US and offered to Europe starting mid 2016 with 9300 sales,
16,000 in 2017 and back to 9500 in 2018, Europe's love affair with diesel was ending by
then thanks to VW's diesel gate.

So Ford waited until sales were really on the skids with diesel Edge before selling it in Australia.
Edge had peaked in Europe by the time we got it, was it anything more than an add on?

[deesun]

You need to grow brand loyalty from the bottom up. Remember the Toyota add, "those were the very good years". Ford is rubbish at it. Have been for 40 years as was Holden now look where they are.

[Sprintey]

I'd be brand loyal for a locally developed, and upgraded, AWD with RWD bias that handles better than the class (not just handling - a great ride/handling combination), is reasonably priced, with a choice of petrol AWD.

Ironically, if Ford had kept the Territory and upgraded it for Australia, I bet sales would have killed what they tried to replace it with.

By about now they'd be developing Ecoboost hybrids of it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by deesun

You need to grow brand loyalty from the bottom up. Remember the Toyota add, "those were the very good years". Ford is rubbish at it. Have been for 40 years as was Holden now look where they are.

Reminds me of Harley Davidson, all their supporters are old blokes and they aren't attracting new blood into the brand, also they keep churning out engines that make **** all power and when they try something new the people actually buying the bikes don't like it.

Old blokes don't buy many bikes and when they kark it they buy none.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Reminds me of Harley Davidson, all their supporters are old blokes and they aren't attracting new blood into the brand, also they keep churning out engines that make **** all power and when they try something new the people actually buying the bikes don't like it.

Old blokes don't buy many bikes and when they kark it they buy none.

I wonder what is behind their new electric bike? Trying to get younger buyers through the door or something to do with emissions standards?

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I'd be brand loyal for a locally developed, and upgraded, AWD with RWD bias that handles better than the class (not just handling - a great ride/handling combination), is reasonably priced, with a choice of petrol AWD.

Ironically, if Ford had kept the Territory and upgraded it for Australia, I bet sales would have killed what they tried to replace it with.

By about now they'd be developing Ecoboost hybrids of it.

We had 2 Territories; the first one was an SYII Ghia (2009 to 2014) and traded it in on an SZ Titanium Diesel (2014 to 2018 written off in a crash).

Both cars performed very reliably - I always had them serviced at the selling dealer - and any warranty items were fairly minor.

We had a Volvo XC90 replace the SZ Territory but it couldn't hold a candle to the Territories on most suburban roads. I'd say it was only quieter on really good roads.

I kept the Volvo for 6 months - I just didn't like it.

If Ford had continued with the Territory I would have definitely got one. I was hoping for a RHD Explorer having seen some in the Philippines but looks like that won't happen.

I did take an Endura ST-Line for a drive at the beginning of this year - I thought it was a really nice car - I probably should have waited a few months at the end of 2018 and got one of those instead of the Volvo but all water under the bridge now.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I wonder what is behind their new electric bike? Trying to get younger buyers through the door or something to do with emissions standards?

Probably trying to attract a new crowd, its ridiculously expensive though, its circa $50K, their Street 500 bike is their attempt to get younger buyers into the brand here locally but its a slow povvo spec turd that's all badge and no substance.

This covers a bit of Harley Davidson's marketing dilemmas and you can probably extrapolate something similar with Ford with how poor they are responding to the market.

[Eaturbo]

Why would you build any car these days only in left hand drive. The Bronco would sell that well here it would catch them off guard. Got to wonder how intelligent the management is.

[Franco Cozzo]

I reckon the biggest harm for us being treated like a pleb market is maintaining ADRs post death of our manufacturing industry.

As far as I'm concerned if it's a new car and it meets European/Japanese/Korean or US design regulations then we should just let it into our market.

You're not going to go out of your way to make something meet ADRs unless you know it's going to be a big volume seller in this tiny but highly competitive market.

If we continue with this then we're going to just be the Thailand Special and SUV market.

One of our blokes at work daily drives an old LHD BMW M3 he imported from Japan, that's legal but you can't drive a new LHD car it's ridiculous.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by deesun

You need to grow brand loyalty from the bottom up. Remember the Toyota add, "those were the very good years". Ford is rubbish at it. Have been for 40 years as was Holden now look where they are.

It's different for Ford, they have their most profitable model nailed and everything else
is add on sales.

Someone earlier mentioned that they have seen more converted Rams and Camaros than Enduras,
Ive said for a while that Ford is fishing with the wrong bait, what would be wrong with commissioning
a company to convert F150s, Super Dutys, Explorers and Expeditions.... roll the dice and try something new.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's different for Ford, they have their most profitable model nailed and everything else
is add on sales.

Someone earlier mentioned that they have seen more converted Rams and Camaros than Enduras,
Ive said for a while that Ford is fishing with the wrong bait, what would be wrong with commissioning
a company to convert F150s, Super Dutys, Explorers and Expeditions.... roll the dice and try something new.

Hey, I know a company that might be able to help with this, they're based in Clayton South and have an absolutely massive factory.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Hey, I know a company that might be able to help with this, they're based in Clayton South and have an absolutely massive factory.

LOL, a bit cheeky doing all three American brands but what the heck...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Why would you build any car these days only in left hand drive. The Bronco would sell that well here it would catch them off guard. Got to wonder how intelligent the management is.

Especially with so many car control systems 'by wire' these days it should be a simple task if incorporated into the design from the start.

I think the biggest hurdle may be the compliance and certification?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

LOL, a bit cheeky doing all three American brands but what the heck...

And imagine if the F-150 jumped to their top seller...a V8, a hybrid, a V6 turbo, a diesel and all a pure electric...and I have them bring in a Lincoln Aviator for me.....

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Especially with so many car control systems 'by wire' these days it should be a simple task if incorporated into the design from the start.

I think the biggest hurdle may be the compliance and certification?

The problem is there is still a steering column, exhaust systems, and Engines then need to comply with the routing of all of the relevant parts.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's different for Ford, they have their most profitable model nailed and everything else
is add on sales.

Someone earlier mentioned that they have seen more converted Rams and Camaros than Enduras,
Ive said for a while that Ford is fishing with the wrong bait, what would be wrong with commissioning
a company to convert F150s, Super Dutys, Explorers and Expeditions.... roll the dice and try something new.

Its where the sales are, I reckon Herrod would take it on or create a subsidiary?

The key would be getting the car cheaper through Fomoco to try and offset some costs.

If its a hit then more ammo to send to Ford, in a way it will never reach its true potential IMO based on price points.

RAM seem to have created a little niche market which is good, but I am not sure if that market is big enough for to many others.

But if Ford came in with a OEM RHD 150 then look out. Opens the hybrid and EV options too.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its where the sales are, I reckon Herrod would take it on or create a subsidiary?

The key would be getting the car cheaper through Fomoco to try and offset some costs.

If its a hit then more ammo to send to Ford, in a way it will never reach its true potential IMO based on price points.

RAM seem to have created a little niche market which is good, but I am not sure if that market is big enough for to many others.

But if Ford came in with a OEM RHD 150 then look out. Opens the hybrid and EV options too.

Ford Australia stepped in to block one of the conversion companies cutting a deal with Ford USA on F series.

They won't offer it but they'll actively try prevent anyone bringing it into our market getting volume discounts

https://m.drive.com.au/car-review/fo...-us-81406.html

Here's an interesting article on our conversions from a US Ford news source

https://fordauthority.com/2020/08/au...d-ford-trucks/

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ford Australia stepped in to block one of the conversion companies cutting a deal with Ford USA on F series.

They won't offer it but they'll actively try prevent anyone bringing it into our market getting volume discounts

https://m.drive.com.au/car-review/fo...-us-81406.html

Here's an interesting article on our conversions from a US Ford news source

https://fordauthority.com/2020/08/au...d-ford-trucks/

But consider the optics of US dealer giving up to USD$10K maybe more discount on an F150
that gets RHD conversion and put out for sale at ~$90k and coming close to high series Ranger.
Ford would be crazy to stand back and let that happen without getting any cut themselves but also
undermining sales of an existing high profit earner......

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But consider the optics of US dealer giving up to USD$10K maybe more discount on an F150
that gets RHD conversion and put out for sale at ~$90k and coming close to high series Ranger.
Ford would be crazy to stand back and let that happen without getting any cut themselves but also
undermining sales of an existing high profit earner......

I dont know what would be crazier, Ford allowing the scenario you've suggested or slugging their loyal customers almost 90k for a Thai special when they could have a better tow rig for similar coin and punters still lining up.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont know what would be crazier, Ford allowing the scenario you've suggested or slugging their loyal customers almost 90k for a Thai special when they could have a better tow rig for similar coin and punters still lining up.

I agree, either way Ford Australia is an importer with nothing of local manufacturing wise to protect. Would a Ford US factory supplied, locally converted F-150 hurt Ford Australia's engineering team in the future and their continued employment here and if yes how so?

Sadly GM took over importation of Chev trucks for HSV to convert and charge conversions costs only, cutting out the middle man and the mentioned $10,000 fee but hasn't passed it on in savings to buyers...
https://www.caradvice.com.au/900101/...ctory-backing/

Doesn't this open up the door even more for a Ford setup?

PS. In case anyone was wondering, Ford sold 76,000 F-series, that's all types, not just F-150's in September.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont know what would be crazier, Ford allowing the scenario you've suggested or slugging their loyal customers almost 90k for a Thai special when they could have a better tow rig for similar coin and punters still lining up.

It's protectionism, plain and simple. Ford was in a position of stopping a product it knew would
attract more than a few buyers away from those +$76,000 Ranger Raptors that Ford has for sale.
The mere threat of an F150 in the ball park was enough to raise alarm bells, so they stopped it.


If you look at the logic, it's clear that Ford knows that a factory RHD F150 would put the sword
through all of Rangers top end models and thus the reason why the above vehicle will never happen.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

And imagine if the F-150 jumped to their top seller...a V8, a hybrid, a V6 turbo, a diesel and all a pure electric...and I have them bring in a Lincoln Aviator for me.....

make that x2 Aviators

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's different for Ford, they have their most profitable model nailed and everything else
is add on sales.

Someone earlier mentioned that they have seen more converted Rams and Camaros than Enduras,
Ive said for a while that Ford is fishing with the wrong bait, what would be wrong with commissioning
a company to convert F150s, Super Dutys, Explorers and Expeditions.... roll the dice and try something new.

When you've got Rams towing vans up to Hotham and chewing the same amount of petrol as a Cruiser diesel with the Ram having more mechanical simplicity, there's an opportunity to eat Toyota's lunch going begging...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's protectionism, plain and simple. Ford was in a position of stopping a product it knew would
attract more than a few buyers away from those +$76,000 Ranger Raptors that Ford has for sale.
The mere threat of an F150 in the ball park was enough to raise alarm bells, so they stopped it.


If you look at the logic, it's clear that Ford knows that a factory RHD F150 would put the sword
through all of Rangers top end models and thus the reason why the above vehicle will never happen.

No doubt, i understand the politics, it just worries me that Ford are happy to have their customers pull their 24ft 3.2t vans with a vehicle legally capable of doing it but not really ideal when they could have a similarly priced F truck with margin to spare if not for profit margins.